Ep. 97 Monty Waldin interviews Leonardo Bellaccini (San Felice) | Discover Italian Regions: Tuscany / Toscana

Italian wine podcast. Chinching with Italian wine people. Hello. This is the Italian wine podcast of New Monte ordered. My guest today is Leonardo Bellaccini, who is the estate manager for the San Felicier group of wineries in Tuss Lionado, welcome. Thank you. Let's just start with, or, Sanfili, what is San Felice first? Well, San Felicia is, an old state, located in Kanti, in the south or part of Cantay Glasgow, very close to Siena. Which village? Which town? Castenor Beradinga. As many biggest state. It was managed. It used to be managed, with a share crop system till, the late sixties. Then, the system collapsed because the young generation moved to the city looking for a better job, a better life. So mostly of the property at that time was sold for a few dollar, few. Yeah. Very cheaply. Yeah. And, And now they're worth millions, that's a great thing, isn't it? Yeah. You're right. Yeah. Definitely. It was both, in sixty driven by a group, of cosmetic products. And after ten years, they sold to the actor owner, which is Allian's group and insurance insurance company. From based in Germany. Yeah. Based in Munich in Germany. So when you start working for San Village? Many years ago. Now, June four eighty four. Okay. And how old are you now? I'm fifty four. And which town are you from? All and raised in Ciena. It's a very u r b r canti classical born and bred. Almost. Yes. Yeah. Also, if, you know, for our region, Sienna is considered a city, a town. Yeah. So it's it's different to to be born and raised in in a countryside. But actually, I lived there since nineteen ninety. So I'm really, really part of Canty. Yeah. And it's got the oldest in the world as well, the Monte de Paski, but we don't we don't talk about that. So so he went to school in Siena. I went to school in Siena, and this is a funny story because, Siena, you you mentioned Monte de Paski and is known around the world for banking. And when I was a child. Actually, most of the guys of my generation were looking to for a job there because it was very well paid, five o'clock in the evening. You shut the door, you forget everything. But I didn't like the idea to work in the in the office. So I choose, and I didn't like the classic school studying Latin and Greek languages. So I choose agriculture. While I was there, they opened this, specialize in video culture and, winemaking, and friend of mine signed on my side during the summer, and I didn't know that they are going to open the because otherwise they don't have, a minimum number and they are not going to open So one of your friends put your name down for the physical course. Yeah. And when I met him, a few weeks later, he told me, at least, and I I I signed for you, but don't worry. If you don't like after the first year, you can move back in the normal agriculture. Okay. Don't worry. I will try. Then, I enjoyed, and I met, Giovanni Morgante, which was, the daughter of the general manager at the time. I start to work, during the summer, to have some extra money in some Finnish working in the vineyards. So at the end of study, naturally, the father has to Jibana, if they are looking for a white maker, a young white maker, but she answer that, she don't wanna work with her father and they called me and was, and of May eighty four. And, because the first of June was Friday, he told me it's not a good luck, start on Friday. So come on Monday, and he's from, June four eighty four and work, for some physician. I started in in the up, making chemical check, and then, I became the the winemaker in eighty nine. And because, I speak a little English and some French from the very beginning, I found some room all in Pierre and also in the commercials. So I start to travel in some market where the wine was already sold, trying to make a sort what we call the brand manager, measuring today. And I have fun, actually, because, this part of my job, which is not the most important in terms of responsibility, but, it's very important giving me the opportunity to see the highs, the face of the people that are drinking the wine I made. So sometimes, you know, when you are very focused in vineyard seller, naturally, you you see the world process from, the butt breaking, fermentation, the aging, the bottling. And naturally, you are convinced that is the best wine of the word, but then you have to taste and talk with some other and, discuss it real the real quality. So you see the whole production receipt of production from pruning to to what they've lost. Now, yes. Since, nineteen ninety nine, I'm the state manager. So I have the opportunity to replant all the vineyards in Canti. Because naturally, the vineyards planted in the sixties were planted with a more quantitative philosophy than quality. So we decided in, nineteen ninety five to start to replant. And, yes, so naturally, we are a little team. I have two ladies, one in charge of the agronomic side, one in charge of the seller in San Felicia, then I have Lorenzo and other guys in, Campo, Indiana, our state in Montecino. So how big is helping is the San Felicia state you can't classic game. We have a hundred and fifty hectares of vineyards. That is not the biggest Kenticos ever. It's it's still It's pretty large. Yes. But it's in the top five percent in terms of size, I guess. Could be. Could be. Yeah. Yeah. So what are the challenges with climate change? Well, at this stage, I believe that, especially for Kantee, Montana is different, but especially for Kantee at this stage, we take an advantage. Because, as you know, Kantee was known for a very high acidity wine, often the the tannins are where I should say a little green, and that's because the ripeness of the grapes often wasn't enough. Today, we have, my more good vintage in ten years than, twenty years ago. I remember my first vintage eighty four, mostly of the grape was on enough to be candy classical. That is eleven point five in alcohol. Now? Yeah. It was a very wet vintage. It wasn't it. It was a very wet. Yeah. Yes. It was very wet, but today, if you compare with a thirty years later winter twenty fourteen, that has been very cold and wet again, and be yield. We can, several problem, but not the alcohol problem. So few days of sun are enough to make the grapes achieve twenty percent sugar. So what about campo Giovanni and Molatina? Because already you're in the southern half, which generally that is different. There is is really tough because it is an area where we have the umbrone, an Orchard River, and, the Orchard Southeast that the umbrone is south southwest. So sometimes you the summer, we see the storm going along the valley, and we see the rain very close by, but no drop in our vineyards. It's, it's really challenging because the soil is very clean. And, sometimes, the ripeness is is really too much. What can you try and do in the vineyard though to in terms of pruning and leafs, leaving leaves to try and mitigate some of that heat? It's it's, it's tough because, what we have trying to do. First of all, we start again to work the land. We come in the last twenty years. We from, almost no telling no planning. Yeah. Exactly. Now, start again just to, for two reasons, to have the opportunity if you have a little shower able to go down in the soil, and, second also to give more oxygen, and also to cut some of the of the roots, the lateral roots, making the other roots going deeper just to control a little bit the the dryness, the drought, but, we also try to manage the leaves. Don't do the top that make much more young leaves Yeah. That are much more demanding in terms of water. Yeah. So it's like if you've just separated it, when you trim your hedge in your garden immediately, the you top the hedge and it will get lower in high height, but what the hedge will do will produce lots of leaves lower down. So what we're hearing here is the more trimming you do. Actually, the more leaves you get so it's counterproductive and it wastes a lot of energy and water for the plant, doesn't it? So what do you do? Are you rolling the shoot tips on on the top supporting wire? No. Actually, what we are trying to do is, to do the topping as late as we can. We we don't have time because, the other characteristic of the vineyards are mostly of the vineyards I planted, both Brunelo and in Chianta classical are high density vineyard. So it takes a lot of time to manage by hand. What we do is, to make as late as we can, the topping. So usually no water in the ground and then no young leaves, no young shoots born. Yeah. That makes sense. This year, actually, we don't we haven't done any topping, but this year has been really out of the of the rules. Yeah. Very difficult. Yeah. Yeah. So you're talking about two thousand and seventeen, which was very dry, wasn't it? Dry in a hot. Also, if this morning, I've listened to a professor of a university that said, no. It's it's not been, a year out of the records. I I don't know which kind of records they are. Yeah. Looking, but, I don't know, for us, it's been really dramatic. She feels bigger and less and montalcino, forty percent less in Canti. That's quite a lot of, that's a big hit, what are you saying? No. I'm a big fan of Canti Chascico. I spent a lot of time in Montecino. Do you make a granciletsioni? We I made two. Okay. So what is a granciletsioni? It's a it's a it's a Kiletsciioni classico, what's a Well, if I understand the question, I for us was a great opportunity to make that the county showcase around the world for with the best, part of the production on. Pinacle of the production. Yeah. The the best selection. Exactly. I think, has been important because this opportunity is, in charge the the real producer. You can make every wine from every appletion, Bernelo Barolo, Barrasco, or Cante Glasgow, or Reserba. Also, if you buy grapes, you buy juice or wine, just blending, make your own blend. For the you have to take care of all the different stage of the production. There must be a hundred percent estate growing. That's the key thing is that it's gonna be exactly right. This is the first thing. Second things, as you know, I think each line of the appolation must be tested by a panel in a blind testing. And the panel say, just if it's okay, we they don't give score ratings. They just say, yes, is okay as a as a candy or no, it's a ninja team. For the grand solution, we ask to the panel to be very strict in the selection. So if they are insecure, it's better that a weak granulation is moved to the reserva, then we have, a weak grancellizione. Okay. Okay. So, basically, now in Kenti, there are three others, Canti Cholasico. Anatta? Yes. And that it can ticlacico and can ticlaccolaccolaccolaccolaccolaccolaccolaccolaccolaccolraccero and a can ticlaccol rizebra could be from bought in grapes, summer state grapes, but Caranza, that's the only can only be from grape grown by the producer whose name is on the front label. Exactly right. So, and in terms of price differential, I mean, was it not a chance for people to some people say that Gurencilla too, he was a way of helping producers who had Resver Canti Glassseco to sell under like a new label for a higher price. Exactly the same way. No. I don't think it's a tricky like that. It's not necessary. Maybe in in every opportunity, there are producer that try to take advantage of a situation. But, I think that, for instance, each producer or many producer used to have, a single vineyard, so reserve or not, which is the top wine of that. That is the classic wine that could be a grandson. So it is not really a new, it's a new category, but it's not a new Ciente classical. What about your main markets for your Ciente classical wines from San Felice? We have two markets. One is still a domestic market with approximately twenty five, thirty percent of our sales. And that's the second is, you s with the approximately same level. So US is the number one of the export. The second is Canada, and then, Russia is the third market. You've always had a very strong market in the US. Why why was that? Why is something she was had such a struggle. Well, we have invested since many years, especially recently in the last five years. We put two person, two guys working specifically for San Felicia, developing the brands, and the same else together. So, yes, we we think that, is marketed as as a great potential is, if I I understand it from your accent, you are from UK. If you may a com comparison with UK market, which is an important market to us, but the US market is much less price sensitive. So there are many reason, the dimension of the market. There are many reason that, for us to invest in that market. Actually, now we are quite happy. We will still grow, but we are quite in a good balance also because our production is we are big, but at the end of the production is limited. So we are trying to be stable in the different market. Actually, we are looking for the new side of the world, the Far East. We are doing very well in South Korea, and we have an historical market in Japan, which is in Japan, which is, small, but consistent. And, China, which is floating up and down on the stream. Sometimes they ask a lot of wine, then you don't hear for a several month. So it's it's a market which is different to forecast for the next year, but is, is becoming very important too. Would you make a Vincenter, San Felicia? Sure. Well, you know something is very related to the old tradition. We have a a long relationship with the university looking indigenous varieties. We are very focused on Sanjuviso And naturally, yes, I made, it's a small production. I made less than a thousand case, maybe seven seven hundred case of Vincent. Actually, and then I made also a little reserve or I should say, Grandcil, it's on a Vincent. Really? Very high. It's yeah, the one, three thousand half bottles. So Are you looking for more concentration in that one? Or Yes. Without to be overloaded. That's to be too busy. Yeah. To to sweet to Jimmy but naturally is the one where the I let the the grape raise till February instead, now mid December. So two months more. And the aging is nine years instead of, four or five. In Caratelli and smaller versions. And actually some are fifty liters, Caratelli. Some is a baric both, but, yes, it depends. So what's the Vincanto called? Vincanto Well, we have a a name of the V of a vineyards of an R area of vineyards called Belcado. And then, for the high end of InSanto is, an old name of the San Felicia area, which is impincias because the same San Felice was, Marti Rice in a pin showing room. So it keep they kept the name. These two are the name of the incentive. Okay. What what is a good dish for Vincent? If you a glass of Vincanto, what do you personally eat with that? Well, especially the pregura Vincanto, which is the more classic for Kianti area. I would say is a glass of wine that, used to be used for the wide comb of a best arriving in the country house when in a period when coffee or whiskey or other things were in popular. So you can drink by itself or with, you know, the tip of cookies, almond cookies, all the cakes that are not too sweet. Because naturally, the Monsanto has a sweetness but has higher seed in the other side. So if you put with a cream or other extra sweet flavor, it doesn't work. What is a good dish to match with a candy classical or a candy classic or a candy classic or a candy salsa, for the young candy classical, pasta, generally made with, ragu, or, I mean, the big sauce, mid sauce or vegetable sauce, it it can work. If you go in a reserve or gradually, you need several dish and more rich. Any meat we use in our region, from pork to beef can match very well. Naturally the one particular dish that I have experienced in our restaurant, which is really delicious, is the chick Aville made in a away. So very long cooking stewing stewing. It become really tender and soft and tasty, and the wine really make one taste all together. It worked very well. Okay. Thanks very much, Leonardo Bellaccini. His food and wine show is appearing on Italian national television every Thursday night during the summer months subject. I was listening. I just want to say thanks to Leonardo Benercini from the San Felicia estate in Canti Classic for coming in today and talking to us about, San Felicia and Campo Giovanni in Monteaccino. Wish you all the best with climate change and your future projects. Alright. Let's say one more thing. You can. Or maybe even two, but very stupid. Two two euros a minute. Yeah. Okay. I forgot to spend few words about, Supertaskan. Okay. As I you probably understood. We are very appalachian driven. Exactly. But, I shouldn't forgot to say that Vigorello in nineteen sixty eight has been the first super tuscant and is still one of the top wine produced in San Felice. So what was it made from in nineteen sixty eight? We got a lot. Was made a hundred percent San Juviso when the rules of the appalachian doesn't allow. So they decide I say they because I wasn't there, but, we decided to go out of the appalachian to show the real quality potential of the sangiovese from Canti when Canti was known around the world as a ordinary wine in the fiasco. They is the things that go back in the history, nineteen sixty eight. The new things is, that San Felicia, both a small property out of the classic appalachian. So we are very focused on San Giovanni. We say wait a moment. Maybe we should have another opportunity to play with. So we both is more property in Bulgaria, and, we will release, next year, the first the bulgari bottles. What's the name of the estate? The state is called Belaya. Belaya is a part of another. We we purchase a part of a an already established one And, at this stage, we still ferment and bottle in the same winery because we don't have the time and the permission to, to build a new winery, but we are working on that. So It's a bela probably comes in Bella, you know? You know, Italian means, the yard of the farm of the farm house. So where you grow chicken and rabbits, that is aya. Okay. So an area for the animals. Yes. So you that's in And the main grapes for that, is it what Santa Daisy plus Supertuscan? Or No. That area is particularly dedicated to international varieties. Okay. Is that gonna be a challenge, Omerlo, on the Tustuscan coast? Well, yes. But, because the soil is, totally different. And because you are very close to the coast, and it's it's true that we have a lot of sun there, but it's also breathing a lot of wind. So what I've seen in the first vintage, I had much more problem of, burning on the skin of the grapes inland than in the coast. What's the what's the soil type of belaya? Belaya? That area, not on hour. It used to be an area dedicated to vegetables. So the soil is powerful and clay. Is it mix on clay and sandy? So the roots can go very deep. Behind, there are the hills. So have quite, a lot of water deep. So the water runs off the hills towards the coastline. That's where the vineyard is. Yes. And, and because the soil is very strong, it's really a totally different concept of agriculture, what we are used to. And, I'm I'm very amazed of the result because the the the leaves also in twenty seventeen were much greener there than in, Montecino. So I think that, we can do a pretty good job over there too. Okay. So you've got the full house. You've got Kenti. You got the three sort of great tuscan wines, haven't you? Yes. That's good. Yeah. That's good. And Belaya in Bulgaria. In Bulgaria. Exactly. What's next? What's the next boat? Are you gonna buy next Champagne house? I don't think so. No. California or state. Yeah. I think we are we are born in Tuscany and, we wanna stay there. Okay. Leonardo Belloccini. Thanks very much for telling us today about San Felicia, the San Felicia group, very interesting to talk to you. And, it's great to meet someone that really does see every single stage of what the winery is doing, and it has the practical knowledge on the production side and the commercial knowledge. On the sales and you also have to have a very smart dresser. So there we go. And, it's nice to see that you're actually from Sienna as well. Yes. And most, you know, most people go into a bank that could have had an easy life in an office going out into the tuscan heat and growing grapes, so making wine great to meet you. Yes. Thanks a my pleasure and come to visit us. If you ever have the opportunity to come to Tuscany, you will be welcome to visit us. I'm finishing. Follow Italian wine podcast on Facebook and Instagram.