Ep. 132 Monty Waldin interviews Devis Romanelli (Romanelli Winery) | Discover Italian Regions: Umbria

Italian wine podcast. Chinching with Italian wine people. Hello. This is the Italian wine podcast. We've been Montewooden. My guest today is Devis Romanelli from the Romanelliwani in the town of Montefalco, which is part of the second itinerary Montefalco region in Bumbria Devis Welcome Thank you. A little bit of family history first, please. How did you? You're very young. How old are you? Thirty five. Thirty five. You don't think you look like a twenty three. Amazing. It must be the Segrentina. It was those anti options. Yes. The effect of the Sacramento and also the, like, savage, you know, the area has been also for the good extra visionary. Okay. So your part time job is also the promotional guide. I'm just Yeah. For the region. Okay. So so it's obviously a family winery. Just give me a little bit of history of agriculture or Romanani. Yes. The farmostat in the in nineteen seventy eight, my grandfather and my father was very different pharma because, was a far the typical Italian farmer with, olive oil, with wine, with the cow, was very mixed. And during the years, changed this system and, now after, around forty years, we are more specialized and focused in the production of wine and also olive oil. So how big is this state in total? It's thirty six actor. Okay. How much of that is olives, vineyard, and forest? Do you have any forest? See, also, I have a two actor. Eight Hector is, Vina Yersun, and twelve is olive tree. And the other, there is wheat corn and other thing. This earth that will be Vina Yers in the future. Right. So eight hectares is, I think, always a nice comfortable size for a vineyard. Is it difficult economically though? Is it too small or do you make money from that? No. I think, they depend to to the job to the objective, but I think, for my idea of the wine, I work organic, and I work every single Vena years in very specific and different, system. So is, is a dimension where I can check all the situation. I think the limit for one person is around the connector for the control of a of all. So which village are you in? I'm in Sacramento, a very little city near of the center of Monteville. So you're right in the middle of the region. Now, what is the terroir like there, soil type altitude? The soil type is clay like the the big part of Montifalco area. The clay soil is more adapt for, from Sacramento in particular. This is the northeast part of, Montefalco area. Is that a cooler area? A warmer area, just a or a normal area? No. It's usually a little bit more cold because, it's, it's open to Northern, and that there is the Big Valley down on Montefalcon. And, if there is a lot of wind from North, the tramontana wind that typical from the area, but in my position, it's, it's very strong sometimes, but it's a very good help for the cultivation because it's a dry wind, it's a fresh wind source. So for the grapes, it's very interesting. So also, is that better for disease prevention as well. Does that help you with diseases having a nice wind coming through? Yes. Of course. It's a good thing for do the passeto, the wind because we can do, passeto by natural dries. And it's a good thing because, we are one of the the five that make the arvest of San Antonio more late in the area. One is because the the area is a little bit more cold. So all is a little bit on late. Two, because I think, the case about Sanarantino is make the arbor small eight. That is possible for a more balanced and elegant wine. So you really are still a mixed farm, though, aren't you? It wasn't as mixed as it was probably before you were born, but you still have several crops. So there is a bit of biodiversity there. You say you have cereals, the cereal crops you have, are they used for pasta? What is the what is the what are the grains go for? Do they make bread pasta? Yes, of course, but, more bread. For pasta, probably there is some some different type of weeds and different type So, but for bread well was, very easy. But my usually in this area, the people that make, crop do for, for, for the animal. Animal feed. To let's just go through your range. Then in terms of white wine, you make a graceto. Is that a hundred percent graceto? It's a hundred percent graceto. It's the type of graceto name it g five. That is typical from this area. G five. Sounds like a pop Great. The vulgar name is Grequito from Todi, because the typical area is from Montefalco to Todi. They were there is the more biggest production. And it's very different to the Grequito that is on the base of our vehicle, DOC. So what's the difference in taste? It's very different grade completely. The normal size of G5 is half of the other type of leggeto. In terms of the size of the berry? The size of the grapes, the size of the berry, and also the the strongness of our skin that is very hard in the g. So it's a it's a very little grapes, very bucks, but but with very hard skin. So the thick skin probably is good also for organics. It's resistant, disease resistant. Yes. What about when you press it? Is that quite difficult? It's, it's necessary. I think, my idea is the work in the Venus have to be near of, arret grades because, this hard skin is also very rich in tanning. For white wine should be a little bit dangerous. So need, the perfect moderation, like, red grapes. And after we press very soft, I think it's not, this is the maximum we can obtain from, from the skin. Okay. So your other white one is Palatino. Yes. Tell me a little bit of Palatino. Completely different grapes. The grape is very big. It's long. Sometimes Although the berry is long, is it? The grapes. So it's a long, a long bunch. It's a very long bunch, wings. Has wing a wing, with two wings. Wanting to say. There are also more sometimes. Three. Five, six, a lot of, it's very long. And at the end, sometimes it's It makes a fork. Yeah. Sometimes on two three. Sounds interesting. Yeah. It's fantastic. Also, two c is fantastic. And is it nice to eat if you're in the vineyard picking can you say? Not much because, it's the acidity is very eyed in these grapes, and the sugar usually is not really eyed. That is good from the air because it's the only one that have this character. Usually, in this area, the older grapes make a lot of power a lot of sugar, but sportettinos completely different. I prefer sportettino on the plane. All the flatter ground. Yeah. Why? Because, can preserve the acidity. Don't go up with sugar, so we can wait the late moderation because it's a late grapes. You can wait for flavor ripeness without worrying about, having too much sugar ripeness and getting wines with too much alcohol. Yeah. Sometimes in, in the warm season, in the hill, have some problem of concentration of stress also because with a very big grapes with a lot of leaves because it's, a big risk of water. Need need water. And, when a warm season should be very stressed. So I prefer I have my vineyards on the plane. It's the only one type of grapes that you can cultivate it in one lane. On the flat land, without getting too much disease problems. It's very interesting because, the old vena years is on the plane. Not not on the hill. In the hilda, we have just the red grapes. The old the old vena years of Trebana Espritin, I have one that is around one hundred years is on the plane. Does quality in a video from a hundred years old? Amazing. It's a and I have a very particular, system of cultivation because, was, married with, a tree. Promiscuous culture. Yeah. It's So when you plant the the vine, you plant also a tree. It's using the actual campestry. Maple, That maple. Yeah. But it's a type of maple that is very little. So it can develop it together. So the divine use the the maple for developing this root. To just to grow up. But it was very interesting because, the idea from the people that plant this one hundred years ago was, have the grapes two or three meters from the, from the soil because you can use the soil for a corn and other things. So in the same space, you can do two different culture. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You have the label, you have the grapes, and then you have the cereal crops. And in now, every year, so that you can plant different team. Yeah. Very clever. And this is interesting also that, these grapes on the plane don't have problem. Don't have problem with the fungus. Don't have problem with the potatoes. Is that because they're higher up though. They're a little bit One above the ground. One is this, but I have also another vineyards that is more younger test with Guyo more normal system, and it's the same. It's the character of the grapes. It's very resistant. In fact, you don't find it upon playing the red grapes or if you find, you find bad red grapes, but the you know, it's fantastic. Okay. Tell me a little bit about graceto? Yes. Graceto is, is different. Of course, different size, different structure, also the grapes, but, the the wine is a wine. I think, have a lot of personality. It's not a wine that developed, too much on the nose, also with the aging, but, is a wine with a very good potential of aging. But, I think the more interesting character is, on my have a very good body. It's a Do you think Grequeta is almost like a red wine grape? Like grapes. Yes. Like wine, not because the de vinification change the balance, but like grapes, when I make the tasting of the grapes before for the decide the correct moment, for make the harvest, the only one that have a similar level of tanning that that Sacramento is Greek. Just a very talent great variety. Yeah. Yes. Because the skin is very When you pick, the applicator, do you like it to be a little bit underripe or a little bit overripe or or perfectly right? I try to arrive to the perfect moment. But, if it's not possible, I prefer a little bit more mature. And when you press, you press hard, do you press slow? Oh, isn't necessarily very slow and soft. Two voice too. So the contact, I've to be very, very light in the skin because sometimes you can extract too much because it's very rich. And if you extract too much, what does the wine taste like? It's also interesting, but need more time for being balanced. Does it become a bit bitter or not? Yeah. Sometimes In fact, when Grequito is not perfect, in balance from the grapes, sometimes I have bitter and, it's out of balance. This is the question. Is it easy to ferment though, Gregquito? Usually, yes. Yes. We don't have fiber for fermentation. What about aromas? Is it very aromatic? No. It's not aromatic grapes. You can have some fruit, yellow fruit, kind of almond, you can have honey. And for the spolatino. Spolatino's completely another word. It's opposite grapes, also opposite wine because it's a wine that, I think the best character is on the nose, the potential of evolution of this noise. I think, is a wine that is better wait, wait around minimum one year. So one year in the bottle. I make, eighteen months. So after eighteen months, what does it taste like? What are we looking for in terms of aroma and flavor? It's it's fantastic because you find herbs, like, sage, rosemary, but, know, such a big spell on your face. I'm talking about this. You know, so your face is just lit up. Yeah. You really like it, don't you? No. Yes. Also because, okay, the the FDA herbs, but when it's a little bit more young, I have a lot of, routes. Thank you. But anytime you can feel the sea. Oh, salty. Yeah. Briany, almost recently. Yeah. It's it's it's included on the nose and on the on the taste. So what's a good food for that then? Depends to the interpretation. MiWay therbiance protein is made with forty, fifty days with the skin. So also on the mouth is a very complex wine. It's not oxidative because I don't like the oxidated wine, but the level of acidity and pH is very good for make the the skin contact to PH is the acid strength of the wine. And protect the wine to the From what's during this. Yeah. During this period. So you're making like, a quotes orange wine, but you don't want it to be But it's not orange. Really disgusting and funky and horrible. So you forty days on the skins. So what color does it pick up some It's a little bit gold. Okay. It's a greeny gold. If I do the same, Bingraqueto, probably a little bit brown, I think. Because the character, the the, CDNPH is completely different. So you all you've pressed it and you ferment it, you leave it forty days on skins. Cold or or warm, what temperature. The normal is, ambient temperature. Yeah. That is a late grape. So the harvest is last week of October. February, about twelve, fifteen. November and December is the maceration. So it should be around ten, ten degree. Oh, even cold. Okay. Yeah. But it's not a funky wine. It's it's a very clean. Yes. It's very clean. And the about pairing, I think the best pairing for this side of, to be honest, Palatino is ham. Ham. Pashutto. I prefer the hungry and prosciutto that's it. That is salty, but the whole supply of mayhem should be very good. Do you hate your spolatino skin contact wine in wood? Or Not wood because, the skin contact adds a lot structure in the wine, and a lot of complexity. So they would, I think the wine we don't grow up. I prefer wait the wine with the yeast for the next eight months. And, go in the bubble, usually one year before, cell. Do you do malateic fermentation on the white, on the skin contact white? Yeah. Usually, make the because another character of turvianosporatini is that the alcohol is, is low, because the sugar is low in particular on the plane. So So the, acidity levels cry presumably. Yes. But, the, during the, the maceration, the wind, the development naturally, also the myrolatic fermentation. So does myelatic on skins? Yeah. Amazing. What was it? Yeah. Not one time. I separate the skin that the malolactic is not done. Interesting. No. Do other people do that in the in this region? I've never heard of anybody doing that with with spolatino in this region, skin contact, malolacticon, the skins? I don't know. I don't know that there is, probably that make with the skin, of course, but I don't know if there is, any order that have this long time of skin contact. For your crechetto and the spolatino, do you do a single vineyard one? Like a crew wine from either of those two? Tow is two veneers blended, and about to be honest, Paulitino. I am trying different soil. And now I have, one veneers, but I am trying different soil in different, system of cultivation of this grape in the old vineyards. I am finding all the old vineyards I can find for try different sort of different experience. So you you're gonna try and get some buy some grapes in as well from other other growers or not. But usually I don't buy, but I prefer, breathe the, the vineyards. Sorry. So you want to buy the vineyards? No. Not by rent. Okay. Right. Before buy, to rent and try. Okay. Let's talk about your red wine. So you make a and, reserve, and you make your instrument, your Sacramento, so so let's just start with the basic Monte factor also. What is the blend? The blend is San Juviso and Sanrentino, and, I use also Merlo, and I need a part of Caberneso Vignon for complete the blend. Okay. And is that oak or unknown? Depends to the season. A few years ago, I was used at a hulk and a whole multifactor also, but I think the panda in particular for sangiovese depends to the vineyards to the clone because I have four different clone of sangiovese. So it depends to the carat of the clone in a particular vintage. Every year, I decide they've apart, go in the hook or go in the hook or no one go in the hook as possible. And you make a crude in your Montefalco single vineyard wine? Yes. This is, a very similar blend to the other montefi Corosso, but, morinita. This is the name of, morinita. Molinita. Is, little windmill? Yeah. Perfect. It's the only one veneers I don't have in, the main hill where there is the center of, of the farm is in the hill in front, but the soil is completely different. In the main hill, we have, clay soil. In the Molinet, vineyards, we have, sandy clay soils. So the the quantity of sand is more right. And it's very interesting because, San Jose, usually in in the clay, these very rich grapes make very big grapes also. In the sandy soil, the sides of the grapes is alf with the same clone, but it's alfso. Change the the proportion with the skin, change the maturation, and usually make wine that is very rich. So I wait five years before cell. And you age at an Oak. Yes. And this wine all is done. Make the two years minimum in, in the hulk and two years minimum in the bowl. So that's the Montefalcoso crew. What about the Sacramento? Have Rantino is the the main grapes, very interesting grapes, very rich. Sometimes too much rich, but, this is our, our job. Your challenge? Yeah. Astrida. Yes. I think that is is grips that is incredible. But my idea in Argentina is developed at more the elegance that the concentration because these are these are white, these are wine, and these are grapes that have a lot of structure itself is not necessary work. For find more concentration. I prefer work more, in the elegance. How are you doing that in the vineyard and in the winery to get that elegance and delicacy rather than this huge big lump of red tenon that I think the my way is wait more that is possible for the harvest to later picking. Yeah. Usually, I am in the last one or, one of two, three winnie winery that make the harvest more lates. Sometimes also in November. Does that help though that you said earlier on that you have a cooler side to get these cooling winds. Yeah. So you get very slow, presumably very slow maturation. This is very, very important. But, do you get seed right, miss, though? This is the question. Is, weight the phenolic maturation, try the the treat the skin and understand when the tanning is perfect mature because when Sacramento, the perfect mature tanning is is fantastic. The challenge is of the perfect moderation. So have to wait. So when you go into the vineyard in autumn, and it's probably, I imagine, in the morning, it's quite foggy, and you get some wind. And you're going out, I assume you're eating a lot of grapes and crunching them and chewing them and spitting them out. So what are you looking for? Are you looking for brown pips? Stock colored, It's very important. Yeah. It's skins. Before I check the the skins that is, it's important, it's like, coffee, the same color. Coffee beans. And after I taste the the skin, sometimes, it's not perfect. Correspondence, these two parameters, but check it's necessary to check both for understanding is if the correct ventilation. So with this, we can have, very mature grapes. So in this cellar is very easy. But you're not looking for overwripe grapes, are you? Not I ate the override grapes because, when the grapes is overwrite, I think we lost the character. The identity of terroir, the identity of, of grapes because the, too much mature grapes, is the same around the world. So you pick the grapes by hand, you take them into the winery, then what happens to your D stem? I put out the the stem, and after go after all is very is very simple. It's very easy because, with the mature grapes, not not too much think is to do in the center. Just just check the fermentation, and, I do the amounts of skin contact also in seventeen. So how long when you do the fermentation, do you prefer a quick fermentation or a slow fermentation? Do you manage the fermentation, the alcoholic fermentation? I prefer, the clean for fermentation. Very stable because, long skin contact is very important that the fermentation is very regular, not too much faster, but not too much slow because it can do some problem of, volatile acid, yeah, vinegar. Also because there is this condition is, it's difficult that the wine have problem of reduction during the, the skin contact. So I can make two months. That is sometimes it's not easy, but, it's a very interesting way for development, better, the character of seventy the one. What kind of tanks do you have? Big or small. It's small. The the more biggest is fifty hectoliters. So that would hold six thousand bottles. That is quite small. Sorry? That is quite small. How high do you fill the tanks though? Depends? Today, because, I have also more little tanker. Sometimes when I have, for example, a thirty accelerator tanks, I bring the wine and use this wine for to the other. But example, when I make the crew in the best vintage, I can do this job. I can blend two different ones. So I use nitrogen for but, the last three years, I tried to close the tank before and the fermentation. So inside, we can have the carbonic from the fermentation, and this is perfect. It's a perfect job. It's necessary to check the correct moment because it can explode the tank, but it's okay. But when do you close it? How early on in the fermentation do you do you close the tank? You mean, you wake till the furious part of the fermentation is over and then you close, or do you close the tank a little bit earlier than that? A little bit before the end of the ferment. So, like, when you're in what in your density, what you'll be ten twenty or something? Usually, when I close, there is less of ten gram of sugar. So So it's pretty much near the end. But but develop it not too much, but, again, develop it slowly a little bit carbonic. So it's a good help. So when you're between the if we rewind about rewind a little bit. What are you doing for extract? Are you pumping over? I mean, the nostalgia. The nostalgia is basically when you drain off some fermenting juice or wine from the tank and then put it back over the top. Yeah. One per days. During the fermentation. So I wish that Delastage can be quite an extractive process because it originated in Bordeaux. Is that for Defend, defend yourself. Really, I use Delastage because, for my objective is, have a more, variation. Yes. The ox is very important for regular fermentation. So I can do the long skin contact. And it also helps the yeast that you're giving them a bit of oxygen so they can keep going. Yeah. This is the question because the yeast forever good fermentation need of good greeps, of course, but need also oxygen for don't have problem or reduce the problem. So this kind of this idea of of making something that is homogenous, but obviously complex. That's what you're trying to do, isn't it? You're trying to make sure you have very homogeneous fermentation where you get a lot of complexity, you get all of the complexity out of the the grapes that you've obviously got from the vineyard to make sure that all of that potential complexity is transmitted into the wine. That's the idea, isn't it? Yeah. You're the kind of person there's a winemaker that if you had to become a chef, if I was on a desert island and I was stuck on a desert island with a few, you know, a few guys and we interviewed everyone, said, right, what are you good at? So he's good at making fire. This guy's very good at making rope from tying knots. You would be the chef. You would be the chef. Absolutely. Even if you've never cooked, I say, right. You know what this guy's never bought an egg before. This guy is the guy. He's gonna be the chef. Because he knows what he's doing. He can you can you can see see how things work and he can be very analytical and very creative and he would even make even if it's just a boiled egg on a hot piece of stone. You'd make a fantastic egg. Perfect. Okay. You're too modest to say yes, but so do we get the name of the two cruisers? That's important. You make so you make these two crew wines, site specific wines? Yes. It's, for We have Montefico, Sanarantino that we produce every year. And, the crew has named it Medo. That is the name of my grandfather. We produce Medo just in the best vintage. Really, we start to make this one all in two thousand, eleven. And that is the year where my grandfather, died. And, but is it the years I also were born my first child. So all day. And it was a very good vintage. So I chose to divide this part of the Venus because is not, a different veneers. It's the same veneers. We have just one veneers of Sacramento, this director, where we make Monteo in the best veneers, and where we make also pass of Sanrentino. So let's hear about the passito. Oh, is is very interesting. Why? Does that have a name, a special name as well or not? No. The the passito's name is just Montefico Sanrentino, passito, because I have three names, so I think it's, you know, it's it's okay. And, it's very, it's very interesting wine. I think it's very unique wine, sweet wine. But what wine in general? Because, called Sanarantino Pacito, sweet wine, I think is not correct way for, understand the wine. It's completely different, wine to the normal sweet wine because, it's the only one, I think, ever tannin. It's sweet at the start, but it's very dry to the end. In fact, the the normal pairing, the best pairing for me is not with the the cert is, with the meat. It's with the liver, with lamb because the start is very sweet for more of a one hundred grams of sugar. But at the end, there is the the itacidity and the very green onion. We are obtain from early harvest. We bring the the grapes from for Pasito one month before that the grapes for dry. For a little more. For f more green done in a more high facility because I have to balance the sweetness. That's quite is that quite unusual, do because you would think that most people would say, right. If we're gonna make a Sacramento, red, and then, Sacramento, red passito. So we're gonna pick the red one, pass to Argentina, and then make a few weeks later when the berries are a little bit drier, we're gonna pick them, and then we're gonna dry them even further indoors. And you're saying, no, I do it the other way around. I pick my passita grapes with four my normal red wine grapes. Yes. And people think you're a little bit mad, or do I think No, but in my choices because, I use a different type of soil. In these veneers, I have three different soil. So the four passit, I use the more, humid soil. So the humid soil should be sometimes a little prob for for the perfect maturation. So for dry segment, you know, I prefer the older soil is a bit more dry yet because the maturation should be better. For pastilles, it is perfect because acid is more right and tangent is a little bit more green. I make the r best half week of September, usually. And, I put the grapes, on the rats for two months in the more windy area of my, my farm. So after, in the normal vintages, very easy, make the, the drying process that usually is around two months in the normal climate, but, with natural process, should be more faster or more slowly slowly. So when you're pressing, the, obviously, by now, dried segmentino grapes for your passita, In terms of numbers, in terms of, say, Malic acidity and tartaric acidity and sugar, what are we talking about? But usually, the acidity usually is side. The sugar is very eyed. So it's very complex fermentation. So high sugar high acidity. Yeah. Because, the content of, of wine, of potential wine is near of a half of a normal grapes. So you're losing fifty percent of volume potentially. Yeah. Yeah. Also, when we press, it's difficult to obtain. The juice. The juice? Yes. Because the berries are so shriveled. Yeah. And so there is also some thank technical problem for a pump, this wine, with the skin, and and press really because sometimes we do the separation of the of the stems, and sometimes the grip go with the stem. So we have to bring back and try again. Because it's so shriveled and dried. Yeah, because it's too dry. But, also the grapes is very cold when arriving in the cellar because we press usually in the, in December, and with natural process, the grapes is around five degrees, six degrees. So after the start of the start of fermentation is very hard. It's very slowly. So we have two, three, four days for way to the start of fermentation, and for the producer, is a very expensive base. Yeah. Because you can get volatile acidity and Yes. It's been a good. Yeah. And, this other stress, moment, is the end of the fermentation because there is a moment where there is an, a good content of our call around thirteen point five. But very high content of sugar. So what are we talking high? One hundred grams per liter sugar? More one hundred and fourteen. I think my diopasito is the the correct end of fermentation is alcohol fourteen fifteen and sugar around one hundred. Okay. Okay. One hundred twenty. This is the the balance that usually I like. But, the last part of fermentation when the the alcohol is near of thirteen, thirteen point five, and the sugar is high. It's very stressful for the yeast because there is a moment where the alcohol is a little bit toxic for the yeast, and also the sugar, combinated with the alcohol makes toxic effort. So in end, in the end of December, near Christmas, the winery is very cold, and it's another stress for days. So we have to help with, little bit of warm. So how do you do that? You have, what you shut the door or you put a little heater in there? It's very difficult because the quantity is too low for users that the modern technology. So use also that this possible for make this. I remember one times I bring the there is people that have the light of fire and make the passito where there is the the fire for elk. Well, inside the house. Yeah. Inside the house. So for at this part. I use, some. A coil. Yeah. In the old days, you could probably bring if you if you did it in a stable, you could bring the animals in because they give off a lot of heat. And the gow make more warmer. Also, the the the floor happ. Yeah. For the people of sleeping above. So what what's interesting about your approach is you're you really thought things through very logically. And in some cases, you're going against received wisdom, but you really do have a plan and you know what you're doing. Mean, do your to to some of the older, producers here think that you are being very clever and very creative? I think you are. Or do they think, oh, this, young guy, he doesn't know what he's doing. He's got his vineyards in a strange place. He's doing all these strange things. Okay. This is, a mental process of the people about me. I start my my first vintage when I started with my first vintage. I was, twenty four years old. When you speak with, twenty old guys, you think, okay. It's too young. Probably so stupid before I make good wine. In particular, when I make my second vintage two thousand and eight, because it was completely different to the normal idea of seventeen. At this time, the second deal was very dark, very concentrated, very tonic. So two thousand eight, was, my two thousand eight was completely different, very, very elegant, not dark on the color, very local, very complex, so there's no squeezing roots. Something that the people that usually don't feel in Sacramento. So sometimes the people all are think, wow, what what is fantastic wine? Or, think, okay. What is this? The second theorem is not possible. This is the idea. Now, luckily, the, the general idea is changed because I, but also, the producer work for search more, the the elegance, the complexity. In these incredible grapes, not just the the concentration. So the general idea now is changed, a lot of people love this idea about, but really be young and with a different wine, when I start was not easy. Do you think you'll take on more vineyards or not? I mean, do you have enough vineyard or would you like to have some more vineyards? The moment, no. At the moment, I want, no better, my vineyards because there is an incredible varieties of difference or different situation. I would like to understand better and, like the crew, I won't, try something different for different vineyards in different situations. So I love to do this. Just the the Trebiano Espino is This is the only one I had the last, three years in my production because before turned back to the dance Palatino was not made it in my in my airbatties, and grapes too interested for don't, don't try Okay. So it's too too interesting to to resist. Is there one if you had the time and the and the and the money, is there another type of wine you'd like to make here? No. You don't wanna make a chardonnay. I'm sure you're not. No. I mean, if I gave if I gave you the manpower and the money and the space in the wine to make it. Yeah. One more wine that wasn't a Spolitino, that wasn't a Salatino. What would you, and a wine from this area? What would you choose? I like, for example, a lot, Gameh from trasimeno. That is grenache is not Gameh. It was named at like this. But a grapes that is borderline is not totally umbria. The big production is in, Marque, and, I love, it's Verdicchio. Yeah. One of the most interesting, grapes from the center of Italy. The reason also, I find the last year, some very old pecorino vine married, like to be in the he's part of, Unbrenier of North Chime in Preci, and it was very old, vines of pecorino. And, if I am trying to bring a little bit of these grapes for understanding what happened with the pecorino in this area because it's in the mountain. It's not on the hill or on the plane, but it's really in the mountain. I'm very particular microclimb, but the wines is, it's very old. So Just white wine grape, pecorino. Yes. He's one white grapes, very diffused, in the, in but not too much because just in this part of mountain, but in the other part, the of mountain, there is the market region and the the most famous area for production of the country. So I'll say thank you to my guest today, Devis Romanelli from the Romanani winery. Anybody that's interested in, Sacramento, region, Espolitino really needs to visit this winery because, what Davis is doing is incredibly interesting. And I think groundbreaking and it's sounds like it's, the future of, of these wines because people want wines that have intensity, but they are increasingly changing against. They don't want wines that are really, really, panicked and really, really tough. And I think what you've described today is through your approach is really, really joined Vitic culture of the wine growing side and joined up winemaking. And, it's great to hear that you're doing that, and also you're very young. And, but having interviewed you, I'm very optimistic about the the future of this region. Well done. Follow Italian wine podcast on Facebook and Instagram.