Ep. 109 Monty Waldin interviews Giovanni Ponchia (Consorzio Vini Colli Berici Vicenza) | Discover Italian Regions: Veneto

Italian wine podcast. Chinching with Italian wine people. Hello. This is the Italian wine podcast with me, Monte Walden. Today, my guest is Giovanni Bonkia, who is the director of the Coli Bierishi doc and Vicenza DOC Consortio, the producer's consortium. Welcome Giovanni. Hi, Montonk. Thanks for your invitation. That's alright, but it's a pleasure to see you, actually. Let's begin, how did you, start your career in wine? Probably a couple of decades ago in the end of the nineties. I fall in love. I fell in love in the freeway while I was, doing the Army IR Service. And then, it became a nice surprise for me to discover that there was also a university specializing in Technology. And, Viticulture, I started and I finished. And then since two thousand and one, I always worked in a world of wine in Italy, Tuscany freely, and, mainly valid. Okay. Which region are you from in Italy? I come from, a small town near Venice. I worked in Tuscany. I work, in the call, you're the entire field, and also in a couple of areas in Vanneton, in the Piave area, and, in the Verona Swava production area. So then you started working for the Swave with the Swave it produces. I started to to work with them in two thousand and five. That's what I did it until the one year ago. I worked for twelve years on, a lot of the studies, research is, so it is one of the most studied areas in Italy, but, we were able to go on with a lot of maps, and soil maps, very detailed, and a lot of research, comparing wise producing different phases in different situation, and probably we drove, we drilled some line that other Italian areas can, try to imitate or try to follow. Yeah. What you did there was very revolutionary. Whose idea was that to do the soil mapping in such incredible detail? Yes. But to do that, you have to do a lot of holes. Take a lot of holes. Yeah. Yeah. Hundreds hundreds of holes in order to know exactly what you have, under your, feet, and, the sources are really a stranger. Anurag, you might be not really able to influence the production, but you always need to have a detailed study of your area. And, for example, of, has, like, is characterized, but two main, the kind of soils, and it's the same also in, my new area while I'm working now in the College that are very close to the solar production area are in the heart of the Valitor region, but the it's the opposite to the geological situation in the in the in the in the Colorado. It's the limestone that is having the largest part of the areas. While the basaltic stones or tuffs or, there's kind of rocks limited at two, three, four, particular areas of very limited. In the color, Betty. She would in Swave. It's more dominant, isn't it? This is a volcanic soil. Yeah. Swave is characterized. The two third of the Swave classical are volcanic our basilatica and, talking about the large operation boarding house. Okay. So, in Coriveri, she what's the main grape variety for white wine? Well, the most cultivated varieties are the Caliber, Michelin, first place, second place in and third place, Tyroso. Cabernet sauvignon and Merlo, you already know what it is. Tyrosa is a bio type of a kind of a green ash or a garnacha or, can now call it a where you. As you want, it is a, Mediterranean variety that, grow up very well in, I drink stress conditions. It needs a lot of heart. It doesn't like too much rain, and Tairrosa is able to express, a range of really versatile ones from the light colored version, really crispy and acid until the bold versions, sometimes with a bit of drying, with the darker color and, with a lot of structure, you know, in important, alcoholic level. So there is not a single identity for the title. So, no. How how come Cody Betty is so dry then? What's what's the what's the topography there? Is it is wetter than soave? Yes. So compared with the climatical condition of the rest of the hills of the very long heavy chains area is a bit less rainy. The temperature during the summer are a bit higher. Mainly Southwest and southeast exposed the as part of the vineyards in Calibergiary, limestone with a lot of high stress that is granted by the draining stones, and so it's a perfect place for, the cultivation over is little, love the heart. And that's because I call it a Mediterranean island in the middle of the general, the flat plan, for the river pole. So I got a technical question. There's a dry air area. So, heydrich stress, but on limestone, what is the ideal root stock there for the great varieties that you all found? Depends. Depends because having different varieties. I I mentioned the carbonate so many homes are also, but we have also a strong presence of Gerganiga, of a Pinobranch of sauvignon. All these varieties needs a a a kind of different rootstock in order to express themselves. Depends. Depends, but anyway, the most favorite are those that love this, mister sauce. If we try, I'd say, a white one from cotybere, she and one from suave. What are the differences in taste that we're going to find? Well, the the cotyberechy expresses some blue dissensation. Okay? Floody. It's characterized by the the iron in my opinion. There is a style and confidence ball. It's very difficult to don't understand if a red one comes from the colored battery. So you needed to find the the touch of iron is, neither if you are talking about carbon or melo or taro. In the swab world, what you have to find is a, peach, Africa in the younger, in the younger rations, a bit of grape fruit. And, after some year, you start to feel some particular sensation that probably has somebody called minerality in, in the beginning, is, a supping sensation in the mouth. And I'm in the nose after Samir becomes something different to be decodified. And in my opinion, is, anyway, an appealing, way to mature for this wine. Opinion, as the two main characters, the the Chalka and the Basals, two wines producing two different places are able to express after five, six, seven years in a different way. And, the salt, the salt in the mouth is what in my opinion characterize the swelling. From both basalt and from limestone or both, but the influenced by the windage, I understood in the last, in the recent years. Okay. So how big is the Coli Badeshi doc in terms of how many hectares are planted of white grapes? Total is a two hundred and two thousand hectares in total. Okay. So that's pretty sizable. No. It's a more or less bigger like the Monteless senior pollution area. The amount of vineyards cultivities about two thousand. Oh, okay. And the, actually, we are using seven hundred hectares for the Caliberic production, all over the Hill area. So excluding the flatlands all around. So we Caliberic means actually only Hill areas in the grapes and in the vineyards. So some appellations, so some denominations in Italy when it says Colley Hills, it doesn't always come from the hills, but you're saying in the case of Colley Bettish, it really does. This is a word from the hills of the Burish sheet, and it really come from the health. Yeah. There are also vineers, on, on the perimeter of the areas, but are actually not used for the college biology production. It's a geographical name, it's the name of the chain. So it's normally the all here take this name, but, I would like to specify that actually we are using only hilly grapes. Now, what is the main market for these ones? They're mainly red. For a two third of the production is red wines. And the remaining, one third is a white one. Brad, I already told you, the most bottle is the merlot and the second place, there is a the carbonate and the title. So while the most cultivated is any way the carbonate Sovignon. Talking about the production. Actually, we are, approaching to two million bottles produced every year. And the main markets, Italy, Germany, and a bit of UK. Now, what about the Vincenza, DOC? What is Vincenza? Vincenza is the name of the town, capital of the province, is a town that's included inside the Colibergion. It's also a name of a a larger doc that includes also the Coliberg and then includes all the Hillier which is a province in the western part in the northern part of the province. Everything if there is ill cultivated. And there, the situation is the opposite and the most cultivated varieties are sauvignon black good and was shown on it. Right. Okay. So a big focus on French varieties in this particular part of the world. So you got the really needed to talk about cabernet and Merlo and, yes. Why why is that focused on the French grape varieties? Is that history? The history is based back to the period in which there were the destruction of the philosopher in France, but probably something something earlier probably in the end of the eighteenth century, there was a a huge beginning of the flux of immigration of Italy abroad. And a lot of people who were went to work, in, in the country in France. Coming back in the nineteenth century was a huge amount of, these varieties brought to Italy, not only in the Colibrts, also in the Olvicines and Treviso and Pardoa provinces, was really poor developed until fifty years ago. That's because the immigration, the Flusco immigration was huge. And talking about the Viticulture was absolutely influenced by the land where the this, huge mass of workers did their job. What about climate change in these two areas, the kodi Badeshi and Vinchenza? How are growers treating? What what are what are growers doing to combat climate change? Several, several weeks without rains. Also, these areas confirmed the trend over the last seven years. So it means that, few rains in June and August already dried. What? It's a problem if you need to produce quantity. If you want to do quintal tones, you know, if you are doing a work to focus on the quality focus on low yields. It's not bad. It's not bad. And you have to remember that the hottest vintages like this one are always perfect for their Edward ITs or the whites suffered a lot because of the flavors because of the balance of the acidity. One for the red varieties is best because of this, sun rays are able to cook to to get mature the standings inside the the red berries and that's because probably of the secret of the good moderation of the polyphenolic material. For the hard varieties, for the hard white varieties is a bit harder. The questions. Probably we must insist on varieties that are friendly with the Huddl stress. Probably we must focus on varieties, a less compact talking about the vouchers, and we must also think about the training system. That is probably a desk is even. So you talk about pergola versus spaghetti, pergola versus hedge style lines or something different. And, we all, for example, are able to give it to completely different results. The pergola is able to save the rashness. And so the level of a city inside the barriers. And also the turpanic circumstances, while the the Guilio is able to express one degree of alcohol potential more inside the grapes, and also This trial is in the development of the Norezio Pronoid are all masters. So another family and another. But two are very good, the trial is in. So you must probably find the balance between both and, without deciding for one, instead of the other, probably the secret will be in the balance because you have to have a hailstorm with the wio, you will have a fifty percent of damage while with the paragon only ten percent. Just give me the name of that terpene again for the Guio in the heat? What was that again? What's that? The terpene again that you mentioned, the chemical compound that you mentioned with the Guio that you said at the end. What was that? No. He's open wide then. Okay, sir. What is what does that give us? Sensation, are normally influenced by the hottest temperature. And, also for professor Shanes, the neuromus are, you know, nor isopronoid compounds are those that are responsible after some year of the birth of the sensation of minerality. So, she, professor Chienza, Atilio Chienza, who's a renowned professor on Italian wine. Right? No problem. It's the most expert in Italy, but viticulture and a lot of other stuff. Final question. If we go to Coli Barrici or Vicenza, what are the typical dishes that we would enjoy with some of the local wines? Bakalala vicentina is in the home place. Bakalaya's salt cod. Solute. And then, they have a particular kind of suppressor that is at, local salum, a really salty, really dry really enjoyable. Tasulte pork. Avicenza is harder to describe the only one dish. Vicenza is probably in the Vanatorre, the reacher in an gastronomic, tradition. It's due to the level of their restoration, of their restaurants in the Chense is huge. Right. So that that must be good for the local wine then. Yeah. Yeah. The largest part of the wines from Brusing Caliberich are really gastronomic, always really heavy, often, and beans with alcohol, higher because of the heat. Exactly. Exactly. To have concentration, the coliberia is quite natural. There are several producer who started with fresh grapes, are able to arrive to us with the fifteen degrees of alcohol just to give you an idea what is the natural concentration and you can obtain the cauliflowerage. Really? That's quite that's very high. For some somewhere that's so far north, you would never really expect that would you. You would think maybe you're being sicily or But at the largest part of venyerson, in the east, south, and west, sites. The northern part that is characterized by the Alpine climate, is not so used for liberty culture in Caliberi. There is not land. There's no earth. There's lobes are stippy, and, there are woods. It's a cooler. Coliberi. She are divided into phases where you can cultivate the vine. And what you don't have to cultivate. Nothing is because of the climate because of the winds because of the influence of the matter. It is clear if nobody planted some vineyard in some place, there is always a reason. Our grandfathers, didn't study, but already know a lot of stuff. So they knew where to plant and where not to plant. Giovanni Pankje. Thanks very much for coming in today to talk about the Kodibereishi and the Vicenza area, fascinating to talk to you as usual. Hope to get you back on the podcast, as Sam says, we can go into soil in greater deep. We can go into soil in greater detail, seeing as you are one of the leading experts on soil, I think, in Italy, and we'll do just a a podcast devoted to solar Fascope. But Giovanni Bonkia, thanks very been first lady talking. Thank you, Monty. Good luck in the call you, Betty. She, and be gentle. Thank you. Bye to everybody. Follow Italian wine podcast on Facebook and Instagram.