Ep. 171 Monty Waldin interviews Angelo Peretti (Consorzio Bardolino Chiaretto) | Discover Italian Regions: Veneto

Italian wine podcast. Chinching with Italian wine people. Hello. This is the Italian wine podcast. My guest today is Angelo Perezi. Angelo has had and is having a very interesting career. He is a banker. Yeah. A strategist who loves wine and he writes about wine and who advises people who make wine, how to improve their sales. I hope people don't think that I, deal about banking while I drink. Okay. It could be a problem. It could be a fact if you've got a loan and you make a couple of dates with the zeros and the decimal points. Yeah. Of course. So, where in Italy are you from? Oh, I'm from Lake Guarda. Lake Garda. Okay. Lake Guarda is in Northern Italy between Milan and Venice. Between Milan and Venice. It's my area. I love being a man from Lake Garda. Lake Garda is a Mediterranean client has a Mediterranean climate inside the Alps. So we have snow in winter on the mountains, but in my garden, I have lemon trees, I have olive trees, I have cypresses, I have a med mediterranean environment, And, upon my area on the Montabalda, the mountain that is over Lake Garda, we have a snow in winter. We can't ski in winter. It's incredible. It's an incredible, an incredible area. So what are the main wine denomination or regions around Lake garden. You said you've got this Mediterranean climate, even if it's with an alpine area, if you like, or sub alpine area, we should say. Yeah. Yeah. It's one of the main denominations around that. Demand denominations are, for the whites, lugana, and Coastal for the Rosier querito de Bardolino, and for the reds, character de Bardolino, and, Valentanese curator. It's a smaller operation, and for the reds, Valentanese and Bardolino. Let's go to the probably, they're all well known denominations, but you've had a particular interest in developing the rose or light pink style of Madolino. So just tell me how you got involved in that and what suggestions you made and what effect they have and don't be modest. Wow. It's very difficult to explain it because I'm involved in it. My father and my mother were born in Bardolino. So my roots are in Bard. And, in two thousand and eight, Bardorino wine producers that, were struggling again, against the great a big crisis of their operation asked me to try to save them. I made a market research in order to understand how to move forward from the crisis. And, I discovered that the key could have been quereto. Which is a good what it doesn't, they will get it. Garreto is the rosette, the name of the rosette at Lake Garda. It's a historical rosette, the first document dealing with Carreto at Lake Garda dates back to eighteen o six. I understood that Kerito could be the the the goal. It could be very interesting because, the people were interested in drinking a rosy coming on the north, and they could pay something more than the the rats for that Rosie. So you think that was a way of adding value? Yeah. Yeah. For for for producer for van Growers, especially for van Growers. But at that time, time in two thousand and eight, Kirito was not a good wine. It was dark in color. People used to to darken it by adding, you know, substance, LaBRusco, Angelo, because it was too much clear and the tradition of the territory couldn't understand that, clear color is the real essence of quereto Kiarito in Italian comes from Kiaro. Kiaro is clear. And in the origin, Chirito was clear, but during the fifties and the sixties and the seventies, they made it darker, and it was horrible because when in September, it collapsed. It tops get oxidated. So Are you saying these wines were dark and kind of they didn't age at all in bottle? Yeah. Yeah. In bottle. And, I tried to make them understand that the real color of the Corvina baronese. Which is one of the main grapes. The main grape of the area, the same grape of of Balicella. In Balicella, they used to dry the Corvina baronese in order to make a marrone at LaGuarda, we use fresh grapes, fresh, Corvina veronese. They're freshly picked grapes, not dried, or Yeah. Yeah. Not dried. And, the, the Corvina has a very low color. It's very clear in color And, I try to make people understand that the real color of the Corvina regardless is very, very clear. You have to respect the grape on your territory, and you to respect your climate and your soils, the soils are very, reaching soils. Very salty soil. Mhmm. So I try to make them understand that saltiness is a good thing for a wine coming from Garda. It isn't, a bad thing. It is very good. So we tried to make, accurate to Arose with, more salt and with more citrus notes. Cytros notes, are typical from the corvina grape. So citrus like, is it like pink peach, things like that? Or They're like, orange, corn, the the the yeah. Yeah. And so on. They are typical. Typical. The but when making a red, you lose these these these citrus notes. So when you say when you make it, so what you're saying is with a light bit of skin contact between the juice and the skin, you get a little bit of color, which is great for the kietet dog. Yeah. You miss the red berries. But you preserve the citrus sauce. Okay. I got it. So is it making like a a rosette that tastes like a red wine? You're making it rosette that tastes like a rosette? Yeah. Yeah. We have to make a rosette, testing like a rosette. The rosette is not a a light red. It's a rosy. So what is the technical? When you pick the grapes, and I'm disarmed a traditional producer, and I'm like, he's this guy Angela. He doesn't know what he's talking about. He doesn't know what he's talking about. I know what I'm doing in my winery. And then you come along and tell me actually Monty. Want you to change this. What are you changing you changing the date of picking, or how the wine is pressed, or how much skin contact? A lot. It, changed the the date of picking because because we have to to harvest earlier than, for the reds of course, fifteen days earlier. But it changed the the way to grow the vines. We are to preserve the grapes, the grapes from from from the sun. We have to reach a phenolic maturation or ripeness of the grapes earlier without having red berries flavors. So you were saying you want you want a slightly different you want the grapes to be ripe. You want them to be physiologically ripe in terms of, acidity and sugar, but by not allowing them so much direct sunlight, which means leaving more leaves, I guess, not leaf plucking. Of course. We have to do it. So you get more roamers like that menu. So now that in in the past, they used to make quereto by using the bleeding method, the same method by taking some masks from the red. And nowadays, producers have, single vineyards for quereto, and single vineyards for the rats. Right. So, basically, it's the same great variety. Yeah. But rather than just picking it all together and doing what you said, you're saying, listen, this plot of the corvina is destined for Jose because it's destined for Rose. We're gonna grow it in a different way. We're not gonna leaf pluck so much. We're gonna pick it a bit earlier. And this plot right next door, which is for the red wine. Right. Completely different way of farming. Yeah. Yeah. How? I mean, if you turned out, I think your head on this guy, you know, you look a bit hippie, you got a bit and all the rest of pretty kind of cool. But you tell me, at the end of the day, you're a banker, right? And that you are not a farmer, and you are telling me how to farm my grapes. What kind of reaction did you get? It's not easy, but I am a one there too. And, people didn't know me as a banker, but they knew me as a wine rider. So they believed in me because, I, my family came from Bard it comes from Barcelona, and I was a one rider. So they didn't believe in me as a banker, as a banking strategist. They believed in me as a one rider. It's a very I'm Doctor Jacquelyn Mister Wright. It was a very challenging experience, but I'm very happy for it because, when I started with this project in thousand and eight, we pro they produced about four million bottles of quereto nowadays. We are producing ten million bottles per year of quereto, and, prices increased by thirty percent end, in two thousand and eight, Kirito, the markets were only Northern Italy and Southern Germany. Nowadays, new markets are, opening for Kirito, the United States, carried the Scandinavia. Our third market nowadays is France. We are selling Rosier to the French. We are selling ice creams to, into the northern pole. What market research did you do on the exact shade of color, regarding certain demographics. So female buyers. Oh, the research told, how's that, the main, drinkers of, to wear women, but nowadays, I think that they are half and half, half men and half women. And in the past, Kerito was, a seasonal wine. They used to drink it in, spring and summer. Nowadays, we sell Kirito all year long. Last year, November was one of the best months for Kirito. We sold the the same amount of the same volumes of quereto in November and in March. It's incredible. People now in Italy, drink Careto drink, but drink Careto is very strange. All over in the world, Jose consumers are increasing. In Italy, they are decreasing. Right. Italy is a very strange country. We are black or white. We are with Bartaly or with Copy. They were, champions. So the bikes in the past. We are the beatles or the rolling stones. We are inter or milan. We are white or reds and, in the wine sector. The Italians don't have a culture of the Rosier. On Saturday, the Bard Moreno Cureto consortium signed an agreement with other four consortiums dealing with tradition the regional Italian or Jose coming from, indigenous grapes, Valentaine de Cirello de Bruso, Salcio, San Antonio and Castal de Mont in Napulia. And we decided to join our forces in order to explain the culture or the traditional indigenous Italian Roset to the Italians and abroad. And, we we are starting with a with a common project in order to to to explain this culture, this typical Italian culture that is decreasing, it's dramatically decreasing. The only Italian Jose that are increasing are the Bardorino Carreto and the Balainers the Carreto. This is really pale pink rose. Very strong pink. But But why would you wanna help your competitor? I know it's really as fantastic that you as a northern guy and your own reason you've you've really had a massive impact on the cells of this wine that I'm sure you had as a kid when it was a very dark, light red rather than even a rosé. Why why would you wanna go down and help the poulians sell their wine? Because because I think that, identity is the main force for a woman. In France, they say terwar, I believe in terwar, and I believe in, culture, in my opinion, terwar is mainly culture, is many a humanist thick, item, is not just soils, climate, and vines, or grapes. And if, we explain to the Italian and to other people that Italy has a very long, experience and culture in Rosier. I'm sure that Kyaretto will increase together with the other Rose Italian tip is from indigenous grapes. I don't want to be a single voice in in Italy. I think that Italy has to be a country in in the past Italy was divided. Now we need to be, a unique country. When you say divided, what you mean is historically, let me, like, divide it between Yeah. Ethnically, we just, you know, there was the kingdom of like Tuscany, the kingdom of Sicily. So it was. Kingdom of the pope. Yeah. So that was kind of that was a historical division. That has obviously shaped current. At least, if it was any reunified in what it is. You must understand that. Altuard is there, became Italian in nineteen eighteen. Yeah. One hundred years ago. Not just one hundred years ago. Just one hundred years ago. Just one hundred ago. Italy exists. A hundred and fifty years. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's very it's a very young nation, a very young country, and we have to overcome our divisions and be Italian and have a a style, an Italian style, and they do that with clothing, don't you? I mean, everybody, I mean, you get it anywhere in the world, you know, the Italian fashion, everybody's mouth drops, people start salivating, you know, I'm gonna get a lovely suit or an address whatever it is. So you definitely end the food, but I go on a press trip, right? My friend say Monte, where are you going tomorrow? So I gotta get a fraser. Pollocks, you know? I'm going to go to Journey. Everybody's just gonna come with you. So again, I go back to the fact that you're being very, open and generous about trying to promote these wines abroad with some kind of unity. At you you you must think that's, it's very easy for me being open because I live at Lake Garda, on the Eastern Shore Lord guard or Lake guard, where I live, we are about thirty five thousand inhabitants. And during summer, we are twelve million because we have a lot of tourists coming from all over the world. So it's normal for me and for my family having relations with the Germans, with the English, with the the Scandinavians, with the Americans, the Swiss, the the come the people coming from the Netherlands out from from from Belgium. So I'm proudly Italian. I'm proudly from the Verona province. I'm proudly from Lake Garda. But I think that's, I'm a citizen of the world. So I have to deal with everybody. I have to to to try to open my mind, and I think that our territory that is a point, a matching point for different for different cultures coming from all over the world can be the Castleist? Yeah. Can can be the concern that helps the other territories in Italy to make a a path to the to to the to the future, to what the future. And I think that quereto can't be the the leader of nothing. I would like that quereto then nowadays is the leader in the Italian Jose wine sector. We produce ten million bottles per year. Sarasolo produces four million bottles per year. That's in the air to volcanoes in in a brew. So in Napulia, Salicio, and, casta de Monte produced just half a million bottle, but ten as a curator is one million and one and a half million bottles. So we are the leader, but I think that, the responsibility of a leader is to help the others to increase and to improve and to open the minds or to open the the culture of the people. And I think that we will increase our our position. So you wanna increase the market as a whole? Yeah. Yeah. We to introduce the market and in the market there is place for everybody for everybody, bearing an identity. Next question. What is a good food match for quereto? Obviously, a lot of people probably drink it on its own. First of all, like fish, of course, but pizza pizza has the perfect pairing for quereto. And in my opinion, the so called fusion cuisine, the cuisine that matches the experience is coming from all over the world, from Northern Africa, from Asia, from Europe, and so on. It's, a very friendly wine and a very gastronomical wine, it matches in a very easy way with with food. I think that just sweet, food can't pair with kirito. It's very cakes can't pair with kirito sweets, can't pair with kirito. But the other the other kind of food can pair with kirito. Should you have, meat, for example, you can make kirito age. And And age kirito? Yeah. It it ages in a very good way. I organized, a vertical testing of the latest four vintages for sound for in wine riders, and the thousand and fourteen were very fresh, very young, and they had spices upon the citrus notes. And this allows the age to to match with with mint for for sample. It's an easy to drink wine, and it doesn't want to be more than that. But it it isn't a silly wine. It is easy, but it isn't silly. So I just got one question about the technical side. How do you or how do growers get the right level of color in there in there, Keus. Obviously, there's color in the skins and the juice is clear. Are you, are they soaking the grapes on the, the grape skins on the juice in the in the press for a certain number of hours? How does that work? In the press. We we use the press. So we press very softly the grapes, and we use, a very low temperatures starting from from picking the grapes. We used to to harvest very early in the morning for character And so they were cool. Yes. Yes. Because when when we harvest, it's very, very warm. The last the latest vintages were hot. And so we have to try to harvest the grapes very early in the morning starting at four five in the morning and, stopping our harvest at ten, eleven. Then we can harvest, other grapes, but not the grains for Kerrieta. Then we immediately refresh the grapes by using children with dry eyes. Yeah. Yeah. We shield them. And then we press them very softly, and we use very low temperatures during the fermentation. So that just allows you to get this very lightly pink or what will come a lightly pink wine just a bit of contact with the juice in the skins. And what about dryness? Is it clear that or normally? Is it less than two grams of sugar zipped bone dry? Is there a little bit of sweetness in there? It's a big question. Kerito used to be very high. Sugar nowadays dry. Is dry. When it is when it's not dry, you don't feel that it is not dry. I try to display it just a few moments ago. Just a few minutes ago, I was making wine writer, a wine writer, taste a kirito, and he told me it's very, very dry. Yes. I know it's right. Do you know how many sugar it has? I don't know, but I think it has a very low sugar level. No. Eight grams per liter is not low. But we have very high salted as I say and a very high freshness. And we have a tonic final in our rose. So you yeah. So you can't feel the sugar and the sugar helps us to give body to the to the rose. So that makes it more fruit food friendly as well, doesn't it? Yeah. Yeah. This is the reason why it is It's very versatile. Yeah. So it's good on its own with a little bit of sweetness that you don't feel so it's not cloying. And it's got that body as you say that it helps it go with, you know, lighter dishes even like even a main course. So wanna say thanks, Angelo Paretti for coming in. I would say that you're, Italian and all that, but you are more of a citizen of the world, I think. I hope to be. Yeah. Where you are, though. I mean, you are. I've met you a few times, and, you have a I must learn English in a better way because my She's sorry, boy. Your your English is fantastic. So I'll say thanks very much to my guest today. Angelo Verreti, who is probably the most influential man on the planet as regards Big wine. If you are. I don't think I one of the most important dream curves in the wine in the wine sector. No. You're a bank. You gotta keep a clear head, you know. I tried to join economy and, Yeah. That's often what we missed as the wine trade. It's like hard numbers, business side of it, and then the product concept changing very traditionalist wine growers who are stuck in not stuck in their ways where they just have one way of doing things. And then you come along as a banker, very smart guy with a nice waistcoat. So, hey guys, you could change this about who How is this guy? Thank you. You had an enormous success and the fact that you're sharing that success with other other regions in Italy makes you even more special than you are. Thank you. Thanks. Thank you. Follow Italian wine podcast on Facebook and Instagram.