Ep. 24 Monty Waldin interviews JC Viens (VIA Ambassador & Editor at Spirito diVino Asia) | Education meets Business

Italian wine podcast. Chinching with Italian wine people. Welcome to this episode of the Italian wine podcast. My name is Monte Walden, and with me today is JC, who's based in Hong Kong, where he is the Asia editor of Espirito DBino. Welcome, JC. Thank you for having me. So just tell us what is as a magazine. It's a consumer focused magazine. In fact, our editor in chief in Milan is a great lover of emotion. And so for him, the magazine is very important that we focus on culture We focus on beauty, the culture and the beauty of wine, and we believe that if we do our job well, we will generate emotions that other magazines don't because they focus too much on the technical part of wine, and they focus too much on soil and things are not really relevant to consumers. And so for us, it's very much about culture traditions and the beauty, the beauty of the landscape, and the beauty of the feelings that binds, make us feel. So is it a very photographically led magazine? Or Yes. In fact, you're right. Very intuitive the pictures for us are very, very important. And when we do a story, we send photographers top rated photographers to capture the essence of the environment as best as we can. And, we want our audience to open the magazine and say, wow. I wish I was there. When my friends tell me, I read the magazine and I saw this picture, and it was beautiful. We have met our objective. Absolutely. What kind of pictures are you looking specifically of Italy? At least very much known for its poly cultural farming, so vineyards with olives, and grain and animals. Does that help get those super nice pictures? Of course. You know, if I say the word toscan, what do people think of? They think of driving in a car with, possibly the roof pulled down, and they they feel the wind in their hair and they, they see the sea person, they see the rolling hills, and they smell the air, and they see some vignals on one side, and they see some trees on the other. This is what we want to capture. The dream that people have of Tuscane, the dream that people have Italy. And I think this is very, very important and perhaps the most valuable asset Italy as over perhaps any other one regions. The diversity of their regions incredible. Therefore, you have different landscapes everywhere you go from north to south east to west. It's fantastic. Surely Italy should be like a world beating exporter for its wine. You have some strong views on why it isn't such a world beating. In fact, because I'm based in Hong Kong, and many people ask me why is it that France so strong. As I say France, you can hear my French accent. I'm from Canada, by the way. It's very different. Why French, are so strong? My view is that the French are very, very clever at creating a sense of pump in circumstance. They are very, very good at creating prestige around their products, especially wine. So much so that, as you know, I'm sure in Champagne, they have a lot, which is a group of, champagne lovers and that you can only join if you are invited. And this is a very prestigious group, and then you have in bordeaux, la comaine Ridge, all of these organizations, they are prestigious. And so the French leverage this prestige to the maximum. And I think that the Italians would be forgotten is that in Asia, in China, in particular, people drink wine, not because they love wine, people drink wine because it's a tool for business. And so the best tool for business is the most prestigious tool you can use. So if I'm going to treat you for dinner, for example, what am I going to do? I'm going to serve you the best. And the French have convinced the Chinese that they are the best. So until the Italians are able to chip into that reputation, they will not make very much success in China. Absolutely. But italy does have its iconic wines and wine producers you think of, beyond DeSantis, for example, why are more producers not or sassakaya, iconic wine from from Tuscany? Absolutely. Maybe beyond not so much. Gaia is making very good inroads. I think, asikaya also, but why is asikaya Masetto onelaya and even solaya are doing so well in China better than anyone else? Because they are traded Shollett de Bordeaux. They are considered fine wine. They are considered investment grade wine, collectibles. And so these wines for Chinese point of view, they are in the same league as the Bordeaux is, and so they will see these has a sign of prestige and a sign of, yeah, of prestige and reputation. I always say that in China, if you don't have gambler also Treba Keri Which is a famous At least in Hong Kong. Has a famous wine magazine, which sets the kind of almost market price for some wines due to its ratings. If you don't have a Treba Keri from Game Rosa, it's very difficult to sell him in Hong Kong, at least in China also because there's no reference point at this moment for wine in China. And so Prestige in my opinion is the number one reference point that people are using for their consumption. Now, I'm sure that you have in your mind, why is it Chile so strong? Why is Australia today second largest seller of wine in China because they are riding a wave, I call this the second wave. The first wave was these prestigious wines. Now we have the second wave where some consumers in the upper middle class are starting to consume wine at home, but they want something easy to drink. Accessible, understandable. And so they already know that Cabernet sauvignon is used to make these famous wines and they know that in Australia, Cabernet sauvignon is also available. They taste it. It's good. It's juicy. It's fruity. Let's buy it. The talents don't have such simplicity at this moment. They don't have such accessibility at this moment, so there is no way they can serve that wave. But I predict that in twenty twenty, twenty twenty two, there will be a third wave And that third wave will be those people who are now fed up with this, they will start to be a bit more demanding of what they're looking for, and then it will start to be much deeper into the Italian market. But they will remain pragmatic. When I say pragmatic is they will care very much about the prestige of the wine that they're going to buy. So you're not saying that I mean, you say getting bored of these cabernet sauvignons, like, you know, if it's a chilean cabinet or an Australian cabinet or California and cabinet, they cliche, viewers that, oh, they all taste the same. Italian wine is not that much more complicated. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. In fact, when I say prestige, there's the prestige of the brand, but also prestige of having traveled abroad prestige of having learned something that somebody else has not learned. And so as the Chinese start to travel more and more to Italy, they will also discover more things. So that landscape, we were talking about Tuscany, they will come back home and they will speak about the landscape, and they will say, by the way, here's a beautiful wine I found. Maybe it's made by you. And they will now demonstrate their special knowledge. But until that happens, it will take some time. Now, Capernet Souvignon from Australia, some of them are fantastic, very beautiful, very balanced, wonderful, but they are unidimensional. Across the board. So in Italy here from north to south east to west, as I said earlier, not only the landscape is fantastic. Just the number of great priorities, humongous. And so, therefore, we have so much diversity to experience. But how are you going to get, how are you going to simplify the Italian off all these various unknown sometimes great varieties, which do make fantastic wine. How are we gonna make it simpler for for Chinese consumers or Hong Kong consumers whilst also convincing that these are really prestigious wise that that an Alianico, for example, or a Primitivo from Southern Italy is actually just as good as a top wine from Bordeaux or even a champagne? I don't think, this is a good question and, I understand where it's going. My opinion is that there is no need to simplify Italian wines. What we need to do is we need to work So if I'm a producer of Verdicchio, for example, the Castelier Diaz. They asked me before, how can I be successful in China? I say to them, don't try. Just try to be the most successful Verdicchio producer in America, in Canada, in Sweden. Once you are very successful in those places. When the third wave of consumers come to be interested in those particular wines, then they will look for you because you're the most successful producer of Dicchio. So same thing for the wines in Pulia, in Sardinia, Cecilia, if you become the most successful producer of these grapes, eventually Chinese will look for you. But if you're not famous already in your own region, you cannot expect to be famous in China very soon. In fact, it will take forever. Almost impossible. But surely things like Nebula, you know, the great wines of Piamonte like Barolo and Babaresco, they are world famous, presumably gonna be easier for them to to get that recognition than it is for say somebody making a an obscure grape in the middle of the southern Italy that nobody's ever heard of with tiny production volumes. Yes. And these nebbiolos that are very famous, they are now being sold already, or they will be increasingly sold to the first wave of consumers. Those consumers today who buy Lafitte Latour, and they are see, and perhaps, other fancy producers like this. They are buying the Jacomo Contano today. They're probably even buying your own de Santa that you mentioned, but we are not interested in these people. What we are interested in is the mass. And the mass is not ready yet to drink wine because the mass still consider wine as a luxury item. You know, I have a company in China. I have four staff in China, and I pay them too much. And they are in the top one percent better paid in China, but these people cannot afford more than one bottle of wine per month because today they are more concerned about spending their money on what they need, not what they want. And this is a very different way of thinking. So if you are Chinese today, you are concerned about the education of your child. Your concern about maybe buying a new air conditioning system, maybe some clothing, put food on your table, make sure you have enough money in case of medical emergency So these people are not thinking of buying what should I drink tonight with my meal. They don't care about wine. They care about what they need, but as the middle class will grow twenty twenty, twenty twenty two, then they will start caring more about the water. This is when we need to be ready and to be ready is we need to make sure that our wine is prestigious and we need to make sure to do the good work today in America in in Sweden and Canada where they are open to these wines and build this prestige and forget about making it more simple. I I think that, going on the way of simplicity would be a disservice to Italy, the richness of Italy today is the diversity. We need to embrace it and celebrate it You mentioned the importance of photography in a magazine, these these pictures in your magazine that just make people wanna get on a plane. How are you going to convince Chinese people to to see Italy as it is their number one destination go to place for their holiday? And if they do come, they're gonna pick up more information about wine and and understand that Italian wine is not all about the famous wines but about the everyday wines. That's that that really is what Italy is about, right? It's not about prestige wine. I love this question because I mentioned to you that today most Chinese are concerned about buying what they need yet They are the largest consumer of luxury products in the world. Thirty percent market share. It's incredible this. The middle class is underdeveloped yet they are the largest buyer of luxury. And where do they buy this luxury? Forty percent of them buy it in Europe. So they go to France they come to Milan and they come to Florence for shopping. So I think a producer would do very well to leverage all of these Chinese coming for shopping for the fashion and luxury items to maybe speak to two operators and maybe to to find a way to bring these people to their winery. Antinori is very well positioned for this. Their new winery, fantastic beautiful winery. It's not even half an hour from Florence. It's so easy for them to take busloads after busloads of Chinese, give them a tour in Chinese, give them a wine tasting with some food introduce them to the culture of Italy immerse them for the culture of Italy, then the Chinese will will suddenly have a a an image and they will not only see a beautiful lines but they will experience the wine in that landscape. For sure they will go back home and tell the story to their friends, but they will not be more interested in half a day, maybe two hours at most. And at this moment, this is what we we need to do. So we need to leverage these visitors and give them the kind of experience. Absolutely. So thanks JC. I think your next job, when you finish with spirit or Divino editing, that one, you'd be editing the Italian Chinese travel magazine. Maybe it would be fantastic. You know, the Chinese need ninety four million trips in twenty fifteen. The vacancy company predict that within one or two years, they will make one hundred million trips about most of them is for shopping. Imagine this humongous. The potential. Yeah. Imagine all those board husbands who are standing around with all that shopping. I didn't say that with. You know, happy wife, happy life. On that note, we will leave it, JC. It's been great to see you. Great to talk to you. Hope to see you in China sometime. For sure. Welcome to join us, sir. In in Hong Kong. Yeah. So, nice one. Good good interview. Thanks. Thank you. Follow us at Italian wine podcast on Facebook.