Ep. 1594 Alessandro Pasqua | Masterclass US Wine Market With Juliana Colangelo

Since two thousand and seventeen, the Italian wine podcast has exploded. Recently hitting six million listens support us by buying a copy of Italian wine unplugged two point o or making a small donation. In return, we'll give you the chance to nominate a guest and even win lunch with Steve Kim and Professor Atilio Shenza. Find out more at Italian One podcast dot com. Welcome to Masterclass US Market with me, Juliana Colangelo. This show has been designed to demystify the US market for Italian wineries through interviews of experts in sales and distribution, social media, communications, and so much more. We will quiz each of our esteemed guests at the end of each episode to solidify the lessons that we've learned. To sharpen your principles, get out your notebooks, and join us each week to learn more about the US market. Hello. Welcome to Masterclass US wine market. Today, I'm thrilled to welcome Alessandro Pascua to the Italian wine podcast. Alejandro represents the third generation at Pasco wines, a Veneta winery founded in nineteen twenty five. Alejandro is the president of Pasco US say, and he has been charge of sales and marketing for the North American market in Canada since twenty sixteen. Prior to that, Alessandro gained experience at Bay and Company in Italy and Japan. Welcome to the show, Alessandro. It's so great to have you here. Thank you, Trejana. It was a pleasure to be here with you. Of course. So Before we dive into today's discussion, about the US market and passport wines, tell us a little bit more about how you came to work for your family business. You know, thank you for asking. I think, part of the of the guilt, you know, was probably our father, my father, that, since the day one, you know, was always involving us in what was the family business, what was all about, what is, a vineyard like, you know, and was always involving us playing around it, when it was possible. Then, you know, he had us almost like an opposite approach. He was always saying you guys have to go out. You guys have to experience something new. You guys have to to learn, and and so it led us very much free. And that's when, I was able to experience, with American firm of billing company, you know, and, you know, and then it's kind of something you feel like yourself. You say, I did something. I I I did stuff around. And if I have to do an effort, if I have to sweat, blood and, you know, run around, why don't you do for your business? Why don't you do for a family name or something that goes over and over to the next generation. Right. I think was the desire of doing business on your own and and bringing this to the next two, three, four generations. Right. So gaining some outside experience that you could then bring back to the family business to invest in the future of company? No. Exactly. Exactly. And then, you know, wine is part of Midin Italy. Madein Italy is one of the coolest things that that you have somehow in the market as part of it. At least, there is the opportunity to travel the world. There is the opportunity of bringing something new to the table. There is all the digital landscape, which is completely or almost unexplored for the traditional wine business. Right. Mhmm. Both on the marketing and the sales side of things, I believe. And, no. Absolutely. You know, and they sky's the limit as they say. Absolutely. Well, as Sandra in today's episode, we're gonna focus on how do you maintain the ethos of a traditional winery, multi generational one company like Pasco, but while staying relevant to present day consumers. Today, Pasco Wine is a really well established player and also very well established internationally, especially in the US market where you're living and managing we're really also wanna focus on what you've been doing specifically in the US market in order to see so much great success for Passwa here in the US. We know that Passwa USA is founded in two thousand nine in New York. And today, North America has a value of over eighteen million euro in sale, which is huge. So we're really excited to learn from you about what has made PASPA. So it's successfully internationally, but also in the US in Kurler. So three key takeaways for today's master class and what we're very excited to learn from Alessandro are number one, how to transition a well known third generation winery like Casua into modern times? Number two, how to be innovative with a very traditional product, like and finally number three how to capture the attention of modern consumers specifically in the US market. So to start, you know, Pasco now has headquarters in Asia as well as in the US. Can you tell us a little bit more about the Pasco US specifically? And how the presence in the US market became such a key part of Passquiz business? Absolutely. Absolutely. I think, this is a little of a senior tour of the new generation. If you want, invested in the business where when it comes to, you know, my family started with Ricardo, my older brother, who's now CEO of Pasco in, Pasco Italy. He came in the States in two thousand, in fact, the nine. At that time, Pascal was doing some business, with some importers, you know, was very managed, offhand if makes any sense. And Mhmm. We would really never local and pushing and understanding and, and giving maybe the right attention to, to what this market could have been. So maybe, you know, Ricardo, that's the desire of exploring a place like this and the support on the back end of my father saying, I see the business plan there a thousand percent. Let's go. And they found that the Passco USA in Porter in two thousand and nine, in fact, with aim to develop the pass per brand together with a couple of previous, tactical, brands, if you want, that are kind of, have disappeared now. But, it's, it's really the idea of developing the name, family name, a market like this, which is so exciting. So It started with very few Ricardo went to the States. They put together the company in New York. And with the help of some brokers at the very beginning, so that's a technical suggestion. Maybe so the support of third party brokers in some regions, but still having control and being the actual importer for the for the wines was a very good kickoff, for the first stages of the business. And the reason being, I believe, is definitely the present. Mhmm. Not all the Italian producer, and we are we are many. Right. Sometimes that they have the will to spend the time and and resources to be present every day in a market like the US, which is more is bigger than Europe somehow at the end of the day because there are so many states. As you know, every state is different, every state has their own relationships, every state, their own dynamics. And so probably this was the real leeway to develop strong relationship in this business, which even after COVID in the digital age, with all the products you can count for, it's probably the real key of, of, of our industry. Somehow, I I hope I'm not saying something wrong here. But, you know, sometimes the more I go forward, the more I believe our industry is almost like the entertainment industry where we sell something fun. We sell a release. We sell a a treat We sell a little bit of free time for the people. And so it's build around relationship. Absolutely. Quality of the product. No. Check. The quality of the product went up so much on average in the every country was a producer. And I think everybody's doing a very good effort in in the out package too. So the relationship and the on top of everything else, I think, is a key factor. And when you're present in the market, I think this is invaluable. Yeah. And so since two thousand nine, Passpa has made an investment in the US market to have a full time presence here. Correct? Exactly. Correct. And and that's something we would rather. And then, you know, I joined the company after being in two thousand and the in sixteen. Okay. The end of two thousand fifteen in the North America market. And so since then, you know, we really transitioned to what is a a generational path, which is of so often very critical in Italian companies. And so with that, our team grown from zero to about fifteen direct people. Oh. And, and, in which we were able. I was able to add in the last years. And, And the business, you know, went really up, dramatically, which, which, which is great because the beauty I believe of this country is the brand positioning you can make. Mhmm. And you can everywhere. You know? And also the feedback you can get on the press in the US, I believe, are feedbacks that are kind of industry standards. And so those are really valuable across each market in the world. Right. You can use, like, the feedback from the press scores, etcetera, internationally. And when you're here in in the US market, you're the ability to establish those relationships more closely. Absolutely. Plus, you know, you can learn from best practices regarding, incentives you can, best practices regarding a route to market, trade marketing, consumer marketing, You can deal with some of the best grocery of the world. So, or groups, you know, so you can learn what's your best practice in some extent. Right. Not to mention the impressionist word. You know, you have places like New York City, area, even Portland, Maine. I don't know. Some up in Camigeria, Nashville. Yep. Absolutely. Also in Texas. Yeah. I I found one of the best food in the country was important, Maine, to be honest with you. Portland. Okay. Yeah. Exactly. No. The fresh produce, the sophistication of the the scene. And and again, and then some so many up and coming places, you know, so much evolution happening, in this space, I believe, which is exciting. Right. And I think only by really being here in the US market and investing in it, do you even discover some of those secondary markets. Right? Because if you're coming once or twice a year, you're hitting probably your top five markets and maybe not even getting exposure to some of these secondary markets you're mentioning where you have less competition and you can really establish a strong footprint. So it seems incredibly strategic. The investment that Asco has made in the US market, it seems like it's really paying off. So congratulations on that. Well, thank you. And, you know, hopefully the best has yet to come as they say. So Yeah. Of course. So shifting gears a little bit, Alessandra. You mentioned also one thing in the US market that you find intriguing and opportunities, the branding. So let's shift a little bit now towards the branding aspect of Pascua wines. Obviously, the Vanito is a very traditional region. It only is a traditional style even in the way it's been marketed. So how have you challenge as possible wines the perception of the Veneto and of Amaroni? Yeah. You know, I think, maybe you said it very much before in a in a sentence. Like, how can you can we talk to the consumer? Because at the end of the day, you know, it's a you do the product because you love it. You do the product because you believe in that, and you want to see the generation of drinker be happy and receptive about that. So you need to talk to them. And probably you need to talk to to these people. You need them to be always up to date and understand what are, your priorities and maybe the other people pre audit. First of all, you know, I think I you you mentioned the amarone amarone is a category is a wine that we love of course, is is part of our DNA. Even if sometimes I feel sad, when I see that, it's kind of put, in a category aside, you know, sometimes they do tasting and they say, oh, why those wines are amazing. This is a marone is amazing, but it's another category. It's kind of a a port alike. It's a dessert wine. Don't get me wrong, but it's characterized usually for being heavy. Over mature overstructure. A little, like, not up to date, up to speed, if it makes any sense. Right. I, you know, I'll go a little obscure or decadent forgive me my and and I'm saying that there's a parting code, of course, you know, but what we do here, we try to achieve an embrace a style, which is respecting the pedigree of the terroir of the area of a marone, and, trying to respect that, but into the future, which means, I don't know. We were having, a nice event, with the James Suckling and the great wines of Italy and tasting some time ago. And the amount of water was poured in twenty seventeen, the current, current vintage And the the the way this wine drinks, the the drinkability, the freshness, the fruit forward, the integration of, of the tannies with the with the with the alcohol, which makes it drinkable, not overly alcoholic or power, and almost reminds me, you know, some of these wines from, Oregon or Washington State. Okay. Even pinot noir. Oh. Now you may think it's crazy, but, you know, this medium, medium, medium, full body. Okay. Happy fresh, freed forward yet not sweet. Right. And I think that's that's that's that's a goal, the elegance and the and the liveliness. So, stylistically, you, passed by half taken a a different approach. It sounds like to the to production. Of Amadone, I took to produce a wine that's more in line with what we're seeing the market is is asking for. I mean, we've seen trends around lower alcohol wines. We've seen trends around just fresher styles, wines that are more drinkable, wines that don't necessarily need to be decanted for several hours before being enjoyed. So it sounds like you've adjusted and, aligned the the style of the possible wines to match the consumer. Is that right? You know, yes or no. Sometimes when you say that it feels a little more of a crowd pleaser, the the reality is, and believe me when I say so, please, is that we, our mission at the end, is to elevate to the perception of the region in any problem that we do. I'm aaroni and being the king of those, not from verona. And I'm aaroni. I I generally suffer when he's put aside into the competition. Even, I don't know, think about the wine experience in New York. You have the best bordeaux, the best bordeaux. Amaroni is always this different character, and I would love a maroni. We would love a maroni to be comparable with the great ways of the word full stop for elegance and seniority verticality. And so is maybe what now the crowd wants? Yes. But it's also true that you have people who loves, you know, bombs, like very senior as they say in the US, in your space wines, you know, we try to achieve more elegance, even in a while, like, amarone. So, yes, packaging. We we we have a lot of fun with packaging, maybe more so in other items. On the Marona is really the winemaking where we put all the efforts. And, even a project like my Jeremiah, the single vineyard, that's where a project. We are exercising with a almost a champagne, density in the vineyard, which means, on ten, eleven thousand bytes per vector, which gives a lot of extraction, a lot of, of, of contents into the wine, but then the acidity of this Durwari is so crazy that it's it's It's comparable with Bordeaux and these guys, you know, and everything is an achievement for passport. Wine to wine business forum. Everything you need to get ahead in the world of wine, supersize your business network. Share business ideas with the biggest voices in the industry. Join us in Verona on November thirteen to fourteen twenty twenty three. Tickets available now at point blind dot net. You'd mentioned packaging a little bit earlier and I wanna talk a little bit about that because, you know, Passpe has embraced some innovation on its wines with these multi vintage blends. So tell us a little bit about those wines, how they came about the approach to these multi vintage wines because it's definitely something unique for the region. Absolutely. And, and, you know, I think, the beauty of that is coming from about ninety eight, about, let's say, one hundred year history in the region, you can leverage on this track record on this past to create something different, and which can be credible. And so maybe Pascal was you were mentioning the Muite Vintaj White, I think. So Pascal is maybe one of the oldest producer, one of the old producer historical of Savas. In the Verona area. And, with that tradition, we had enough time to experiment the Gargania grape. We had enough time to be around in that area. Mhmm. And we had the desire to elevate the region as much as we could. And so we thought that First of all, selecting a single vineyard in the area of South Mexico, which actually with, with a designated under a sub location, forgive me. I don't know how to say that in English, exactly, of monte calvaryna. So it's a specific, plot, of Lando, where we wanted to enhance all the capabilities and, and, and, DNA of Garganica. So we decided how do we do longevity? How do we give, a profound, profound, how do we give, layers of complexity, tertiary notes, linearity, you know, sulfur, and all these beautiful things that are a combination between, Treviano da brusso and and and freely and white burgundy. And and the multivintage was the idea that really, was motivated by from the champagne industry. Okay. That we wanted to apply to the steel line. And and that's something that was never really done, maybe, before, at least at, you know, at the scale. And, and, you know, once you come out with something like that as far as winemaking, You really wanna dress it up, tailor around it a nice, a nice, a nice dress, a nice package because it deserves, we think. And and in this case, for example, to the one called, a French. You could have made this, but you didn't. I love the name. And that's that's that's what we love. You know, you just had a a laugh about it and that's what we want to provoke, you know, until mine, because it's a tribute at the end to great whites of the world, like white burgundy, But it's a little pride in a sense that the French, they invented maybe the couvet on the champagne, but they really don't do that on the, on the steel whites. So, and again, it's a game of classic and modern paint together. We got old bottle of Pascua from the fifties that was ring vented and designed and and and disrupted by a French artist, a pop artist Okay. Named CD Oyo. Mhmm. And so you have this old bottle that is completely full of color and and paint everywhere, very untidy and and and and and and noisy and and we love it, you know. It's pretty unique. And you now in your third edition of of this wine. Correct? So I am assuming it's been successful. And if you're making it now for the third time. So how is this, this blend, this multi vintage blends been received in the international market and in the US specifically? Yeah. I would say good. You know, first of all, means that it's kind of a early, early project. And that's true. We launched this not too long ago. Right. And even if the library of integers goes all the way back to two thousand and thirteen, but, no. Very good. You know, because First of all, gives us a glimpse of how good the volcanic soil of soaven and result. And, and we've been participating with this wine at, some volcanic testing, volcanic soil testing, which I thought was very interesting. It was successful because, it's fun. It's a little point of conversation. Maybe the, who embrace the project, understands it. Love the idea of talking about something new from, an historical region rather than the usual forgive me, you know, the usual sunset or the usual chardonnay, from from the new world. And so it's going very well. Of course, it's, it's more like a niche project, cater to the on premise, But, I mean, my first customer of of this wine was a a two star Michelin French restaurant in New York City. Oh, wow. And that's that's kind of surprising. Maybe they found it, you know, the label that would be, you know, like I did a kind of fun intriguing, you know, surprising label for for a traditional list perhaps. Exactly. And then, you know, the the high end, the white wine from Italy, that category is not particularly crowded. If you think about it, So, you know, one ultimate alternative to very established brand and super and super successful that we have from Freolia or or or aumbria. So so, yeah. Yeah. It's doing well. We love it. This person is one of my favorites. Yeah. No. And I had the opportunity to try it a couple of years ago and and really, really enjoyed it. And actually it was a really unique event that Pasquois would hosted the House of Pasquois at Vin Italy back in it was June twenty twenty one when we were off with the COVID years. So tell us a little bit more about the relationship Paspa has to art. You mentioned the art labels and the artists you worked with for the multi vintage blends. But tell us a little bit more holistically about Paspa's approach to the innovation and integration art into its wines. No. Absolutely. You know, as we well know, you know, the wine is a product coming from clearly the nature and the business. So it's a product that is very connected to the to the human being clearly. Maybe somehow more than others. We believe strongly that the emotional involvement is something that really needs to be a key factor in the consumption of of wiring the communication of it. And so we thought that, there is no better you know, emotional involvement, and if somehow elevating that art, if you want, especially when it comes to what's happening right now. So when it comes to digital art, when it comes to all these new avenues of capturing attention, and and evolving, of art that we see around, in these days. And so this project started with the, press campaign, which was pretty successful for us. That was called talent. Never tested better. And that, you know, was, was, some sort of may match an artist if it makes sense to give you some sort of sponsorship project that possibly started with the three, very strong, but still a known artist, a dancer. And she was, I then said at the Julia School of New York City, from Verona, a chef, and an artist. And last but not least, the Italian golfer, Franchesco Molinari Okay. Bought the British shop and, some time ago. An artist team is filled if you want. And so The idea is Pascal helping some of these people to realize their dreams with a a support partnership, a sponsorship, and this really started a, like, a circle where the collaboration with artists has become now about or sixties when the last one were the community of, Fuser from Bologna. And we did an art installation called Luna Solmium during the Italy two thousand twenty three this year. And and that's crazy, you know, because these guys took really, like, how you call it, like, an aerostatic balloon. We put it in the middle of a, fair pavilion, the historical fair in verona. Okay. And we need a a laser an audio, the spectacle is art installation. Again, called Luna Sonium. So we embrace it at the the moon, and we're reproducing the moon again in the middle of, of verona in a pavilion. Excellent. And when you do those things, not exactly. It was incredible, but the the best of it is when you see the city, the the citizen of the town coming to visit what you do for for for it. So we in those events, usually, we present a wine, which has a a story connect to the art installation we we like to propose or if you will to offer to the city. So it's it's really a part that, has, has, made us evolve and grow Mhmm. I imagine also an effort and an initiative ideally that's reaching new audiences for for possible wines as well and allowing you, to tap into to new consumers ultimately. To build the brand. See, that's that's definitely that's definitely part of it. The way making, and I think we spoke about it a little bit today is is key and is every day. Right. No. That's that's a mission. But why not dress up this all this work with a nice dress as well, you know, because it deserves. And so it's a last mile. It's an it's an additional effort we do. And I think you can create a brand, which is more lifestyle somehow rather than not being strictly traditionally a wine brand. And I think if you do that respecting what you have in the bottle, what's the real goal, what's the real, you know, product. If you do with respecting that, I think it's very interesting and kind of unique. Yeah. So definitely a new consumer. We love that. Yeah. And like you said earlier too, I mean, you're looking at wine as entertainment in a lot of ways. And I think that's a really smart way to be thinking about this product. It's a lifestyle product. It is entertainment. It's an indulgence. For for people, and bringing in that beauty and that art to it makes a lot of sense to me when you look at it from that lens of entertainment. Absolutely. Then I think that the if we are always able to keep clear and real that the research and development in the product is crucial, is key because we can afford not even, you know, to go too far away and become just a lifestyle brand because Right. We're not with all the respect, but it's the nature of it, maybe. You know, we're not like a spirit or forgive me, like, maybe I'm ready to drink category problem. We need that to respect, you know, and evolve in the in the category, in the, meaning, in the way making, you know, in the technique and in the in the research of the vineyard and what we can do, the sustainability, and all of that. But But, yes, it's entertainment in a sense that it's, yes, it's a passion. It's it's something that make you feel, you know, free, make you rest, make you recharge the batteries because it's, did indulgence. Yeah. For sure. And you mentioned Ellisandro, RTD, spirits, other categories. I know we know from a lot of research that's been being put out by Silicon Valley Bank, and, Nielsen, and other research organizations that especially in the US market, younger drinkers are not drinking it as much wine. And, I hear that you did some of your own research at Pasco wines about younger consumers. So tell us a little bit more about that research project and and what you found out. Absolutely, Arna. That was, a very interesting research that we commissioned during this year in two thousand twenty three. And I think that the results that were there, the key results were that, And we were not too surprised, you know, when they say people spend so much and always more time on the phone. The phone means, information, means, accessibility to all the products of the order. Almost. It means, involvement. It means, consuming, not only the product, but, for example, consuming art. And so, on top of all of that, I think there is a echo. If you ask me, what could be a concern for me, Lisa in the industry could be the consciousness of the of the dietary, evolution, restrictions, or calories, and and and support the alcohol in the diet. Rather than, you know, of course, all what it is, they they the the the environmental changes. So what product can stay with the same organizational profile and and can be sustainable still. So that's another key item. And so, you know, you you really see that people generally speaking prefer red wine when it comes to wine. They wanna drink better. They are a spoiled consumer in a sense that there is so much education available, and so the selection of wine is really also when it comes to wine is catered maybe to When it's not merely price, which is still is a thing, but the maybe in the majority is more like understanding where it's coming from, what it is about, who's making it, how does it look, where is it sold, And so information is redriving. I believe the sum of the key decision. And, and that's why also we selected the the art and the digital art because that's art that can be consumed by these people on the phone or in the digital devices. And and those visuals, you know, speaks to them, make them feel comfortable. Like when you buy a nice pair of sneakers, you buy a nice pair of of whatever clothes. I know it sounds crazy maybe, but, you know, you feel comfortable when you have a series of storytelling, which is, compelling and and and bring you to explain Mhmm. And explains you what it is about. And so definitely, RTD are stealing, market share probably pinot grisio. Rosier, that was exploding for the last years. Definitely, I think, arrived slightly to a plateau where now it's more of a her play among brands now than than an expanding market. And again, you know, RTDs Mhmm. Are so successful maybe because of the calorie concerns, the dietary restriction. Right? Right. The transparency on the labeling too, right, of the ingredients. You, you know, we talked about information and the younger generation wanting. Yes. Information about what they're consuming, including information, you know, with the caloric and nutritional information key. Correct? Absolutely. Absolutely. And then on top of that, you say gluten free is only thirty one calories, however it is exactly. Sugar free. It's seventy. Yeah. No. Exactly. If you will, that's that was part of the success of Titos vodka, you know, with, I mean, which is a phenomenon from Texas. Mhmm. Made in the US, so sense of place, a little bit of pride in it. And and then the, I believe, you know, gluten free was one of the key factor, but No. No. Absolutely. Those are the trends. And that's why even if I believe in the life, we believe, of course, in the life style brand, three sixty degrees, you know, the winemaking needs to be always, the key. Needs to be something. You know, you never forget sustainability, organic portions are growing for us, becoming more relevant to the organic plantations. And so Of course. It's it's it's crucial. It's really crucial. No. That's when you retain the curiosity and the respect of the people because when they're selective, at least, when it comes to wine, you're trying to do the best that you can in that regard. Absolutely. Definitely. Well, Alastandra, we're coming to the end of the episode, and we like to end every episode of Master Class US market with a rapid fire quiz where we ask each of our guests to answer three questions and just a couple of sentences that will allow our listeners to better understand the US market because again, that's what we're here to to talk about and you gave so many great insights today about your own experience, with possible wines in the US. So question number one, what is your number one tip for mastering the US wine market? Work the market. Okay. And, yeah, that's easy to say find a right partner. Find the right involved there. Maybe Yeah. Not being the smaller guy in a larger organization. Maybe try to be a larger player in a smaller importer, a smaller organization. Great advice. Number two, what is something you might have told your younger professional self about selling wine in the US market? That's a good question. Keep it simple. Keep it simple. I like that. Always good advice. Okay. And finally question number three, what is your favorite travel hack when doing market work? You mentioned doing market work know you're traveling often between Italy and the US and other markets. So what's one of your favorite travel tips? A travel tips? Yes. I don't know. It's it's really like an adventure all the time. Pair for anything. Find the patient and and and read read along. Yeah. Read a lot. Okay. Yeah. It's always good to have a book when you're on the plane. Easy books. Yeah. I enjoy physical books too. I refuse to get a a Kindle stay a little old school there. Well, Alfonso, thank you so much again for joining us today at Master Classy West Wine Market on the Italian wine podcast. Thank you very much. Thank you so much, Jan. Thank you again. Thank you for joining me today. Stay tuned each week for new episodes of Master Class US wine market with me, Juliana Colangelo. And remember if you enjoyed today's show, hit the like and follow buttons wherever you get your podcasts.