Ep. 1743 Dr. Craig De Blois | Masterclass US Wine Market With Juliana Colangelo

The Italian wine podcast is the community driven platform for Italian wine Geeks around the world. Support the show by donating at Italian wine podcast dot com. Donate five or more Euros, and we'll send you a copy of our latest book. My Italian Great Geek journal. Absolutely free. To get your free copy of my Italian GradeGeek journal, click support us at italian wine podcast dot com, or wherever you get your pods. Welcome to Mastercross US Market with me, Juliana Colangelo. This show has been designed to demystify the US market for Italian wineries through interviews of experts in sales and distribution, social media, communications, and so much more. We will quiz each of our esteemed guests at the end of each episode to solidify the lessons that we've learned. To sharpen your principles, get out your notebooks, and join us each week to learn more about the US market. Hello. Welcome to Masterclass US wine market. Today, I'm thrilled to welcome Craig De Blois to the Italian White podcast. Craig is the president at Noble State wine and spirits representing wineries around the world and selling to the LCBO and to restaurants throughout Canada. Craig developed a passion for wine in his twenties working in banking and has now been in the wine industry for over twenty years. Welcome to the show, Craig. It's really great to have you here. Typically, we talk about the US market for the title, but we're happy to be pivoting today and talking about Canada. Thanks, Julian. We're friendly neighbors. Exactly. We share some borders. So, yeah, happy to talk about Canada. And I am an American citizen and lived about fifteen years in the state. So Yeah. Absolutely. So but before Craig, we did dive in today's discussion about the Canadian market for Italian. Tell us a little bit about yourself and, you know, how you made that transition over twenty years ago from banking to this world of wine that we're in. Yeah. Well, I lived in Michigan for a couple years of high school at Cranbrook and went to University in upstate New York and found myself in banking and worked overseas. So I had the opportunity to work in Luxembourg and Zurich. And also down in Johannesburg and just developed a passion for wine in my twenties. In my early thirties, I went back to school to do my MBA and and help with that career change. And I have, you know, family history in the business. My grandfather Bob Saporito was was in the booze business in Boston in the fifties, sixties seventies, and my aunt Paula. Paula Saporito worked for, some great California producers and and also for Southern San Francisco down to to Carmel. So Paula was kinda really a big inspiration for me getting into the business. And we sound like Italian names, Italian Canadians, I guess them. Yeah. My mom's a Sabarito from North of Boston, and my dad's French Canadian, and he played hockey in Boston and met my mom. So, yeah. So that's kind of the connection. Got it. Got it. Okay. And that's how you came to be. Yeah. So there's definitely an Italian connection here. Great. Well, Craig, in this episode, we know we're focusing on the Canadian market for Italian Wine and what we wanna focus in and learn from you is number one, how the wine market in Canada works. You know, it's different than the US, and it's different by province I imagine too. So just how do you get set up if you're looking to sell your wine, into Canada? Number two, how do you successfully sell Italian wine in Canada? And number three, finally, why Italian wines are so successful in Canada and what has been trending recently in terms of what categories, ride all styles, etcetera, are really catching the attention of the market. So just let's get started with that primer on how the Canadian market works for imported wine. Well, yeah. Each province is different. From a production standpoint, we all know how fragmented wine is. I mean, there's a lot of small family, estates, and a lot of farmers. And, you know, we are seeing consolidation here a bit in distribution as in the states. But there's still many small agents in Ontario. The sales channels primarily are through government monopolies. So the two best markets for wine in Canada are Quebec and Ontario. Ontario being the biggest and and the most populous province in Quebec being a a really great fine wine market. And both Ontario and Quebec have pretty, strong monopolies. The further you move west, Alberta is a market that's wide open. And then when you get out to the far west coast of British Columbia, you find a market that is kind of in between a monopoly and an open market. And then, you know, there's smaller provinces kind of on the East Coast and and in between. But, really, you know, we we focus on on Quebec and Ontario because they are the best markets, and they really are amazing markets for Italian wine. Both, Ontario and Quebec, the second largest import countries is Italy. And with the first I'm gonna guess is French? So in Quebec, for sure, yeah, being a predominantly French province. And in Ontario, it's actually US, California cab, really has taken off in the last ten years. And French would be the third. Got it. I don't know if this is fair to say, but in my mind, at least looking at Canada, I mean, I think of the coast. And then I'm like, there's a whole lot in between and north, but is it fair to say that a lot of the wide sales I mean, as you mentioned, are kinda concentrated in some of the Eastern provinces. But what about, you know, at West? How do you see that market, you know, in the Vancouver area for Italian wine? Yeah. It's a little tougher in the West. Alberta is a market that, you know, they're cowboys. So, you know, they love big reds. We are a cool climate nation. Canada is known to be pretty cold. So red has always been king. We are seeing a bit of a shift towards, you know, lighter and whiter and Rosets. And one one interesting little statistic here is it's roughly around ninety five percent of the population of Canada lives within an hour or two hours of the US border Yeah. And there's so much north of that. Ninety five percent. Wow. It's amazing. Yeah. So it's really it's huge. The impact, I guess, of the US economy and and really I don't know. Maybe they're just trying to get as close to that Florida sunshine as they can, but Maybe. Yeah. One interesting about British Columbia is they have a very strong domestic wine market, I guess. The wines from British Columbia are excellent. And, you know, the okanagan, it's a desert. They can really produce some great reds. Right. Mhmm. And white. And the BC wine consumer is very supportive of BC wines, which is really cool to see. And I think the further west you go, the further you move away from Europe. And in Italy, the more impact, but I don't think we're allowed to say new world lines anymore, that that your more new world line has a stronger foothold. Right. That makes sense. That totally makes sense. And what you said, Craig, about ninety five percent of the population living close to the US border kind of leads me to my next question I had, which was, you also have your American citizenship and some family here. It sounds like, so how would you summarize the poor differences between the US and Canadian market, you know, for Italian specifically Yeah. Well, I think they're both great markets for Italian wine. We, we have huge communities of Italian people that have emigrated here, both the US and Canada. You know, I think from a demographic standpoint, Canadians, we have a much larger middle class than maybe in the US. I think there's a a greater distance between the upper class and the lower class economically in the US. You know, Toronto is the most diverse city in the world, I believe. Oh, wow. I wouldn't have thought that. That's interesting. Yeah. You walk around Toronto, and it's amazing. I mean, there's, we have a huge Asian community, East Asian, where I am right now, there's a big Chinese community, East Indian community. Our immigration policies are quite open right now. So we're seeing a lot of new Canadians arriving. Very interesting. That makes sense in terms of what you've laid out as those differences, and similarities. So let's talk next to you about selling wine in the Canadian market. You've done this for over twenty years now. Talk to us a little bit about what you feel are some of the keys to being successful in working a Canadian market? Italy is just such an aspirational place. I think, you know, that's part of the success of California is people love that California culture, and and Italy might be the most aspirational place in the world in terms of, you know, travel, food, and lifestyle, and and certainly wine. They're set up for success automatically. And then the number of Italian restaurants around the world is a real boost as well and, you know, hugely helpful. You know, the other thing that You know, we see more Italian wine producers here than any other country. They really work the market and engage. I can tell you we're friends with all our Italian producers. We spend a lot of time with them and they really deliver that whole experience that we're looking for and that our consumers are looking for. The other great thing around Italian wines is is they have success at retail and on premise. And not all wine nations are experiencing that success that on premise that Italy does. Interesting. And what do you think that is for? Is it the cultural aspect of diaspora you have all the, you know, immigration from Italy in Canada or the food? Like, what do you think is the reason for that? Yeah. I think it's a mix. I mean, Italy offers probably the best value at every price point from any wine producing country. They have great value wines at, you know, ten, fifteen dollars, and then their top wines are phenomenal as well. So and there's a real diversity in styles, you know, from from Amaroni to, you know, Greedel and I think they appeal to every wine consumer. I mean, I think that, some of the the new world countries are are really kinda new to selling wine and, you know, a lot of restaurants. Like, look, restaurants are are so stretched right now. That they have to make decisions and they can't sell everything. So, yeah, I think it'll ease a a real space. Yeah. Values values key. Right? Especially when you're looking at budgets. And if you think about, like you said, the value that Tanya Wine brings in so many different categories, speaking of categories, Craig, what right now is hot in Canada and Italian. What are people really excited about? So at Noble Estates at our agency of about half of our wines, half of our sales are Italian wines. And the founder of this company was a native Calabria, a huge part of our portfolio. The traditional kinda kings and queens of Italian wine of, you know, at the value end. It's Pino grigio Presecco, Repaso, and then, obviously, Amaroni, we're a great brunello market. I love barolo and can't get enough. And I really hope that, you know, prices don't get too astronomic there. Well, there's always long a nabiolo and other great wines from feed month that we can enjoy when they do. Five years ago, we couldn't sell long a nabiolo. And now there's a real demand for it. Wow. So we're, yeah, I'm excited about those kind of, you know, almost like, you know, baby wines, you know, like the Rosos and and the longue de violas that are Yeah. And I have a place now. And then I love those wines. Just for my pilot in particular. But, you know, so many interviews I asked this question a while, like, what's trending for Johnny Wine in your market? And, Pete Ma is pretty much the first word out of everyone's mouth. It's so interesting to see you know, and then next comes sicily, but, you know, that the way that that the category has grown in so many different ways, right, from the collectors and, you know, being in the same sentences with Porto and Burgundy, and then to to some of the whites we're talking about now, the longue inhibitors and such that offer more value from from the region. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And we're lucky, you know, in this industry, we get to open a lot of nice old bottles, and and I just find the the consistency of an old barolo, it almost always just delivers and and really rewards a little a little time whereas, you know, some other other regions can be maybe more hit or miss. Yeah. Totally. That makes sense. But they're all in Temaraso now, which I'm enjoying some of our timorassos, like Galliardo and bourgogneo and but yeah. And then yeah. So new kind of up and coming. We're, like, Sardinia is something that, you know, on a much smaller scale, but, you know, we're seeing a lot of interest from Psalms and Cicily. I think white lotus sure helped. Sicily and the tasting that they did in in season two, there was actually at Planeta who we represent and it's been a real boost for them. And the market. I mean, the market is one of the best regions in the world for value. Oh, yes. You know, from, you know, from a and the reds are exceptional exceptional, but still kind of flying under the radar a little bit. So really offering great value. That's right. So La Marque is one of the kind of under the radar regions for us here, and I think for the world, just producing amazing value wines. We represent the money wrong key. Their Verdicchio is exceptional. Pecorino is really finding a lot a home, not just at restaurants, but also at retail, and the reds and are just offering such great values. So that's kind of a a region that we're having a lot of success with. You know, both at restaurants and with the LCBO stores. That makes me excited to hear because I just was in Blaine market late last year, with one of the Vineetally ambassador trips. So we drink tons of radicchio and it was really cool actually to explore some of the ageable radicchio and taste some older wines. They're really fascinating. And the old vines and Oh, yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of magic happening there and Lambrusco is another kind of area that is in favor now. And for us, it's just at restaurants, but, nice to see, you know, those wines that are really so diverse and and quite unique, I think, in the wine world. You mentioned, Craig, that A lot of Italian producers may be more than any other imported wine region in Canada are working to market and are in Canada. And what would you say the key to having a successful market trip for an Italian producer coming to Canada? Offering advance, should they be planning? How should they be making appointments? Just talk us through just even just a little bit tactically how to make the most successful Canadian market. Is it possible for an Italian winery? Well, I think, you know, communication, having a great agent is critical. You know, we're really your local expert, and we take care of everything. You know, we're your point person with the monopolies, with LCBO or SAP in Quebec. We have a real strong dialogue with Psalms and the wine media community here in Canada. You know, really it's, yeah, planning ahead because, you know, it's really important to have wines available and the right wines here. It's important to show your best and really what you can do. We love showing big bottles and older vintages to really help educate. I mean, you know, the wine business, it's a lifetime education, you know, every region, every riot at all. You know, the evolution, every vintage is different. It's really kinda one of the exciting things and I think challenging things about, you know, working in this industry is is staying on top of all the the trends and changes. Yeah. But it sounds like, you know, something you're you're saying, Craig, is like bringing some older ridges, some some bigger bottles, something that'll really get people excited in the room works well in Canada. Is am I hearing that right? Hundred percent. Yeah. And also really communication and trusting your agent and like any market. Right? So that goes for the same here in the US, having a really strong relationship with your importer and your partner is locally communicating well in advance, your timing, for your trip, etcetera. So that, you know, you can make it as productive as possible. Are you enjoying this podcast? Don't forget to visit our YouTube channel, mama jumbo shrimp for fascinating videos covering Stevie Kim and her travels across Italy and beyond. Meeting winemakers, eating local foods, and taking in the scenery. Now back to the show. Exactly. The towns are really good at bringing us there as well. Like you mentioned, your trip as an ambassador, you know, our Psalm community, our wine writer community is in Italy, you know, almost annually. Some of the regions, you know, Tuscany County Glasgow, Alchino. I think it really does an exceptional job, you know, Brolo, they do a pretty great job as well, bringing them back. And it's funny. You know, we I was just in Bordeaux in September, and I was with two of the top wine writers in Canada, and they hadn't been to Bordeaux twenty years, but they're in Tuscany every year. So Wow. Interesting. Yeah. So, you know, I mean, Italy does a great job at every aspect, I think, of the industry. They really are dialed in. And certainly, the OCM funding has been a a big help for the producers that I've been able to maximize that. I'm not sure how long that'll continue, but, you know, the government marketing support has been well used. Oh, yeah. It makes these trips happen. But like you said, having that cross atlantic travel and in both directions is really key. And like you said, I mean, it always doing it well. So just keep at it. Right? And and we all love to to visit Italy, of course. So I don't think you have to twist anyone's arm too hard to make a trip over there. Exactly. Bring that bon vivant, lifestyle and, and just records that. Yeah. Exactly. Like you said earlier, and you know, the aspirational lifestyle of Italy is something that the region has that so many others can't claim, right, and the better we can capture that lifestyle, you know, as we're marketing and talking about the wines, I think the more only more successful the the region and the categories can can become. On that note, Craig, I'm curious what do you see as a future for Italian wine in the Canadian market. I see a great future because as I said, they hit every price point and and offer great value as we transition away from bigger style wines and, you know, the bubbles coming out of you know, French, Chacorta, and top brassecos, just a variety of indigenous white varietals that the curious wine lover can explore from Italy. Yeah. They're really, I think well positioned. We're definitely gonna be heading into a a tough year in twenty twenty four just with the economy and and consumption. I'm not so worried about young people because, you know, if they're drinking white claw, it's hard to respect that because it tastes like cardboard. But you you hope that, you know, they'll graduate to wine and and something with the story and and history and and flavor. And so, you know, I have faith in youth of North America. You have faith in the youth? The little agent to it. Yeah. I think, you know, it's also lifestyle. Right? As you get older, why it becomes our part of the lifestyle? We're listening to a webinar earlier this week about the fine wine consumer, and I think it was like something like over three quarters of people who responded and said, their favorite way to drink wine is at home or with friends. So if you just think about lifestyle when you're in your earlier twenties, you're going out to bars and clubs, you're not sitting at home drinking. And then when you're in your thirties, you're sitting at home drinking over a dinner party, and that's when you're and great wines. So definitely I think there's some truths into that that argument that people will age into wine. I I do think, you know, at the same time, we can't be stagnant as a category and and and the way people buy and consume products has changed. So we also do have to make sure that digital is is key. We've got great website set up, social media, etcetera, if those are still the ways, you know, millennials are gonna expect to buy things even as they age into category. Right? Well, you're a great example of that, you know, bringing, kind of a modern feel to, celebrating wine and, yeah, that's, we definitely need more people like you. Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. Well, on that note, Craig, as we wind down, we ask all of our guests a few questions. In this case, the Canadian market, usually the US market, but if you can do your best to answer these in one sentence or so, what is your number one tip for mastering the Canadian white market. That's a tough one. I would just say we're not the US. I think, you know, the hard sell in the US, it's maybe a little more aggressive Canadians. I think are a little more understated in general. And I guess, you know, just recalibrating your approach in the Canadian market is probably a helpful device. Okay. Number two, what is something you might have told your younger professional self about selling wine in Canada? Do it sooner. I had a lot of fun, traveling the world as a banker, but I did not love my job. And I I don't think I was very good at it. So, you know, I think if I had started earlier and worked at a winery, you know, for a few harvests and and get that full experience, I think it would it would have helped me out a little more. Okay. And finally, we all travel a lot. We were just talking about, you know, going back and forth to Italy. What is your favorite travel hack when you're traveling for work? Well, I've started traveling with a wine suitcase because I love bringing great wines home that that we can't get here. And, you know, now I, you know, my clothes twenty years ago, I I didn't really care if a bottle broke in my suitcase, but now my clothes are a little nicer. So I definitely, fill that suitcase and and bring home a lot of mostly big bottles. That's a trend. I hope you know, picks up and and we see more magnums because it's party in a bottle and they age so well and and they're just just something that's fun. Big bottles are fun. Yeah. Totally, especially, you know, I know we're in January now with this episode, but maybe so we all need a break from the big bottles after the holidays, but they are especially fine with those big groups and everything. Well, Craig, thanks so much for being here today. The Master Class US wine market. It was really fun to kinda switch gears for an episode and talk about Canada. How can our listeners connect with you? Yeah. Well, I'm on, I'm on Instagram and, we our website in Noble States. I'm on LinkedIn. So, yeah, I always happen to answer questions. You know, we're not really actively looking for new producers, but I know most of the agents in Ontario and, you know, some are big, some are small, some focus on restaurants, some focus on on the LCBO or or the SAP and, always happy to make recommendations and and connect with great agents here. Awesome. Well, we appreciate that support, Craig. Thanks so much. And thanks again for being here. Yeah. Yeah. Hopefully see you in person someday. Thank you for joining me today. Stay tuned each week for new episodes of Master Class US wine market with me, Juliana Colangelo. And remember if you enjoyed today's show, hit the like and follow buttons wherever you get your podcasts.