Ep. 2305 Barbara Fitzgerald interviews George Christie | Masterclass US Wine Market

George is the founder, president, and chief executive officer of Wine Industry Network, WIN. So specifically in this episode are three key takeaways. First, times are tough. But there are brands that are still winning. So how are they doing that? Number two, you must be willing to change the way you've been operating if you want to have a chance of succeeding. So we'll go deeper into Georgia's insights on that. And then the third, we, as an industry, need to do a better job of engaging with consumers, especially those younger generations, and also the wine curious, really of all ages. Welcome to mass class US wine market with me, Barbara Fitzgerald. In this show, we'll break down the complexities of selling wine in the US by discussing the relevant issues of today with experts from around the globe. Each episode serves up three key insights to help elevate your wineries presence in the US market. So grab a pen and paper, and let's pave the way for your success in the US. Hi, everyone. Welcome back to Masterclass US wine market. Today, I'm very excited to welcome George Christie to the show. George is the founder, president, and chief executive officer of Wine Industry Network, WIN. The company really keeps industry professionals informed about current trends and industry news, as well as the latest products services, jobs, and innovations in the production, Viticulture, sales, marketing, and management categories. So welcome to the show, George. It's really great to have you here, especially because, you know, we are Sonoma County neighbors. So it's nice to keep it local. I'm super happy to be here, Barbara. Thank you for inviting me to be on the show. This is awesome. Have a look forward to it. Awesome. Fantastic. Well, before we dive into today's discussion, George, can you tell us a little bit more about your background and how you came to work in the wine business? Yeah. I mean, I'll try to keep it as succinct as I can, but I didn't grow up in the wine industry. I grew up on in the East Coast, actually along the Jersey Shore. I came out to Northern California after I graduated from college and I really described it to a left. It was a sort of, like, running away from home. You know, I had I from college, didn't really know what I wanted to do. I'd never been to California and for people who who are not from California could probably appreciate this. It's know, it's just like this magical land. Right? So I was like, go to California. And I was like, I had this great plan that I was gonna go to California, become very successful and then go back home. And I had a friend who was coming here already, to Rona Park, which is just north of San Francisco. We knew another a kid who was graduating from college. And my plan was just like I said, land, go to San Francisco and get to it, but I wound up getting a job in Heelzburg with a little beautiful wine country town for those of you that haven't been here, the heart of Sonoma County. And I just fell in love with the town. And then it was like, well, how do I stay here? And we were surrounded by wineries and vineyards. And, you know, I had a business degree, but I had no experience. And I got really lucky. I was hired by a small little winery called Lake Sonoma winery, which no longer exists. But it was really cool. I didn't make any money. So I was waiting tables at night. But I didn't care because nobody knew me here. Right? My my friend had gone home. So it was perfectly cool to just kinda do your own thing without feeling self conscious. You know, my parents kinda going like, what are you doing with, you know, your life? But it was great because at this little winery, as in all little wineries are the same, everybody has to do a little bit of everything. So, obviously, I spent time helping out in the tasting room and for our events. I did a lot of administrative work, right, because I had some experience there. But I helped out, you know, during crush, you know, was down there. We just had, like, the open tops and put you know, doing some punch downs and pumpovers. I got out and I'd spent a lot of time in the vineyard pruning, doing repairs where we bottled. We all were on the balling line. So it was it was just a really awesome training opportunity for me to learn a little bit about the different aspects of the operations. And what happened to him was very lucky was it was just a small little, you know, mom and pop in their son, and mom and dad were very elderly. The father passed away, and they sold the winery to Corbell, and they kept me on. And then I was part of, like, a, you know, a fairly significant winery operation any of it. I just loved it. I mean, I loved the people. I loved I mean, I just loved everything about it. I loved this story because, yeah, it's all about the people. Right? And I can speak to you about our our charming little town of Healdsburg. There's so many elements to me that remind me of kind of small town life in Italy and the way people support one another and know each other's business, but also really, you know, there's one thing here that really keeps us thriving. So nice little parallel. Yeah. I feel very fortunate. I mean, like, sometimes I think back on it. I was like, how do I land? Like, I just got lucky. You know, it's like, round up here. I don't know. Sometimes you just think they're just just meant to be. Absolutely. Well, we'll spend some time today delving deeper into all of the experience that you've gained and expertise. So we'll really get some valuable insights from your time in this industry to better understand both the challenges and the opportunities that are present currently in the US wine market. So specifically in this episode are three key takeaways and what we're really excited to learn from George about our first, probably surprised to know when times are tough, but there are brands that are still winning. So how are they doing that? Number two, you must be willing to change the way you've been operating if you want to have a chance of succeeding. We'll go deeper into into Georgia's insights on that. And then the third, we, as an industry, need to do a better job of engaging with consumers, especially those younger generations, and also the wine curious, really, of all ages. So let's dive in because you have a lot of juicy tidbits to offer us. I think, hopefully, they, you know, that's, like, there are things that I think we should be doing, but, you know, it makes sense to everybody else. So, yeah, where do you wanna start, Barbara? So you mentioned there are some brands that are still winning despite the tough time. So could you share a few examples and explain what you really think sets these brands apart? Well, I don't wanna, like, pick on specific brands exactly, but what I would tell you is that what they all have in common is I think they're willing to do things a little bit different. You just reference that, you know, people are wearing this, you know, the fortunate or unfortunate situation where we get a lot of, you know, people asking questions about, you know, what what our thoughts are, what my thoughts on, what we should be doing, And what I tell people is, like, there is no one single thing that's going to make that big of a difference. It's not like, hey, you're gonna do a label change, and that's gonna cure all your problems. Or you're going to venture into adding a sparkling, or you're gonna add a you know, a no alcohol choice to the lineup. I don't think there's any one thing that works for everybody, but one thing I am certain of is that if you don't embrace change, if you're not willing to experiment and do something different, then you're just gonna get more of the same. You will fade away because there's too many other people that are working really, really hard to survive. I mean, it is not easy. It's never been easy. I've said this a lot to people. We we talked about, you know, succeeding in the wine this year. I don't think it's complicated. I think that, you know, obviously, you have to make a good product. Okay? That's that's just to get you a seat at the table because we are surrounded by awesome wine producers and great winemakers, intelligent, great growers, gotta price it in the realm of reality. Okay? You can't just go out there and go, hey, if this bottle's worth a thousand. You've gotta be living in real world as it comes to your pricing, but mainly you have to be willing to be work, you just have to be working hard, be willing to be work hard all the time, to be out there selling all the time. And that's the part that I think and again, this is no secret for anybody who's in our industry, but I think that's the part that really just that's where the rubber meets the road. You know, are you willing to be engaging with customers all the time. I don't care if it's at your tasting room, or you're out in the marketplace, or you're getting on airplanes, or whatever it is, you have to be okay with that. It has to be kinda built into your DNA because you can't fake it. You can't sustain that kind of energy. You have to really love it. And if you do, I think you'll be okay. Yeah. I like that you called out, you know, the willingness to change, which is really scary in our industry because You know, we're we're not like other alcohol industries where they kinda have many chances throughout the year to make the product. So we understand why it might be scary in the wine industry, but actually I heard Robert Joseph give a really great analogy. I thought that, you know, people often say if you keep doing something the same, you're always gonna get the same results. And he said, no. Actually, if you keep doing something the same, eventually, your results are gonna diminish more and more. So if you have a bag of potato chip and every day you're pulling one ship out, eventually you're gonna have no potato chips. Yeah. So we did some interviews here, and we interviewed the gentleman who's the CEO of wine shipping, and wine shipping is obviously a big company. We had a similar conversation, and he referenced a book. I did called Who Move The Cheese. It's a kind of a more of like a parable But the gist of it is is like if you just keep going back, it's not like you're gonna get the same. It's going to diminish. I think that what, you know, when I think about our industry, we've had great success. Right? We've had a heck of a run. It's it's been wonderful for a long time. I think part of the challenge for some of the folks that were that we see at there, especially small, the small and medium sized guys, those folks, those families that were running those wineries, you know, for the last two or three decades, you know, they're starting to get a little bit older. And changes, you know, and I'm getting older. I'm I'll be fifty nine this year. It's like, I'd like to think that I'm pretty flexible and we're pretty open to change, but I think it gets harder as you get older. And I think for a lot of those folks, it's like, oh my god, like, the technology the the change in the rapid change in in the technology that's available can be overwhelming. You know, I'll pick on our little continue to pick on like Little Heilsberg, and most of my crew is in Tricree Valley. You know, when I first started, I think it were like twenty wineries or something. And then now they think there's like forty or something. You know, so it's gotten, you know, progressively more competitive. It's gotten more expensive, the cost of doing business. And I just sometimes think you run out of energy. Yeah. Did I see? I think that's what we're seeing. As you said, to do this successfully, you have to be willing to kind of running on all cylinders kind of all the time. Yeah. So I do have a question. You mentioned that definitely understandable older generations have a harder time. It's not even that they're unwilling to change, but it's just harder in general to learn new systems, new processes, but what do you suggest? Is it helpful then to have younger people like hire younger people to your team? Or Yeah. No. I mean, I think, yes, it's harder. But the good news is is that the tools that you have access to actually help you run your business better. Right? So the ability to, you know, pick on someone like the point sales systems that are now, you know, available that weren't available twenty years ago. You know, you really dive in and and understand who your customer is, what they like, and then cater your communication to them based on that versus the other way, which is like, hey, we've got a lot of chardonnay. So let's push the chardonnay. Well, they don't drink chardonnay. They like yours in or they like your cab. So the tools are great, and they're actually not so they actually make them so they're easier to use, but it's just anything new is intimidating. I do think that, embracing and bringing younger people into the operations important and not just as a as an employee, but giving them a voice. I'll share with you kind of a funny experience I had. So I was at a a meeting not too long ago where there were, I don't know, like, maybe, like, twenty or so executive directors from different associations around the state and around the country. And one of the topics that they wanted to cover was like, what can we be doing to better engage with younger consumers? Right? That's like the that's like the never ending evergreen topic talked about these days. And I was looking around the room, and I definitely wasn't the youngest person in the room, but I was about nearly the youngest person in the room, and everyone else was, like, you know, significantly, in some cases significantly older than me. And I just said, like, oh my god, like, what are we doing? Like, why don't we're talking about how to better connect with, let's say, people like in their thirties late twenties, early thirties, etcetera. Here's an idea, like, why don't we have people who are in their younger thirties for having a participating in this conversation? And it it was kind of a funny, you know, funny comment, funny observation at the time. But, you know, if you think about all of the different, you know, and again, I know there's some exceptions, but if you think about all of the articles that are out there, you think about a lot of the the industry folks that are on these, you know, the the kind of the regular speakers that we hear on a regular basis. Most of them are not young thirty year old people. You know, so at what point do we start to shift and start list giving those people a platform and a voice? Because that to me, that's one of the big things we need to be thinking about. Absolutely. I I think that you see that, you know, there's the circuit of really high quality, you know, trade shows and and symposiums for the wine industry. But often, we're seeing the same people speak time. And again, and don't get me wrong. I get value out of what they say. They're experts for a reason, but it might be a good idea to also start hearing from some other voices, especially the ones that we feel we're not connecting with. We're guilty of that. You know, we put on trade shows and conferences in webinars all time, and we go back to the well all the time. And, I mean, listen, there's a lot to be said for somebody who is my age or older. They've been around. They've seen a lot of the different cycles, and they have a lot of expertise to bring to the conversation. So, you know, I'm not dismissing what they have to say. But it's like we should be figuring out how to sprinkle in some of these other folks. And I don't know. I think about this a lot of time, and I'll use I'll use a kind of an example. Get off wines for a second, but I think about some of the greatest songs that have ever been written and created think about they're all written by people like in their twenties. You know what I mean? Like, because they're they I think there's something to be said for just the freedom to not know what you don't know, and you just you know, you just let it rip. I don't know. I just feel like that's gonna be the next sort of iteration for industry. Is this gonna be the emergence of the next generation? And I think that is what's going to gotta get us out of the rut that we're in now and propel us to the next level. I just don't know when that's gonna happen. Yeah. Well, even I think within, you know, there's fear to change, not just in our operations, but, you know, and and the voices that we listen to also because This is such an experiential industry. So we want to learn from hear from the people that we think maybe have the most experience, but maybe it's not the most experience versus just the most relevant experience. Yeah. This is probably a blend, but you know what's this great about, like, like, even things like you're doing right now. So platforms like this, you know, weren't available a bunch years ago. So it's it's Yeah. Our access to information and opinions and expertise is just so much better now than it ever was. Yeah. Yeah. But it's just it takes time. It does take time. And to your point earlier about tools in the wine industry, like, yes, what a game changer? I remember when I first started working in wine clubs almost like eighteen years ago, we were still keeping our customer records in an Excel spreadsheet. And so now that we have these really powerful tools available, and the beauty of these companies, no matter what your age is, their success is your success. So often they have onboarding teams and support teams that are really available to help you understand the features and and how to best use them. Obviously, they're not gonna make a a business a strategy plan for you, but at least so that you can really understand the functionality well. Yeah. And I think the other thing that they bring to the conversation is a broader perspective. So you can kinda, like, it's not just, you know, how do we do things? Well, this is the way we've always done them in, and in that particular case, change is always gonna be, you know, slow and thoughtful, but When you have you're working with a company, let's say you live with a point of sale company or, you know, and I'll plug the wind shipping conversation, you know, they're working with so many different producers. They've seen so many different ways of executing that they can share some of those best practices and just kind of speed up the learning curve for for folks. Yeah. Definitely. Well, so we keep saying the world is very different now than it was even a few years ago. So what do you see really in our post pandemic world? What is different about the way wine brands market and sell their product and maybe some strategies that you've seen prove successful in reaching customers in this time. Well, one of the things I really love about the evolution. I don't know how new this is, but I think we're just getting better at it. Is being able to really capture and communicate the brand personality to their audience. Obviously, like, you know, beginning with, like, Facebook, but now migrating away like Instagram or TikTok and all these different ways that you can really show who you are beyond the brand. I think that's become more and more important. You know, when I was just getting started, you know, getting that ninety something point score and spectator or enthusiasts was like a gold medal here and there. It was like, That was awesome. And it really didn't have the tools to, like, reach a broad audience with, like, your winemaker explaining the new release like you can today. So for me, I'm, like, a big fan, and I'll give you a couple, I think, examples. I think are doing a really good job. Of leveraging the technology to kind of make the world a little smaller. So I'm a big fan of Kim Stair Wallace over at Tri Creek Vaniards. Kim might be a little bit younger than me, but she's kind of more of my, like, my generation. But she's like every week or so. I'm seeing like a little video of Kim, you know, talking to that dry Creek vineyard's audience. And I think she's really good at it because she's unscripted or seems to be unscripted. She's very natural. I know her. So, like, I know she's Mhmm. Tell if she's faking in or not, I think. And she's just real. And not unlike what you would experience if you showed up on the property and ran into her, you know, out in the picnic area. Another cool example I think what they're doing well is the folks over at Pedro Shelley. They've been around for a long time, but I was like, I feel like they've really done a great job in the last bunch of years. It's just upping their communication game and capturing their personality. So those are the things I think that are where technology has really been awesome as a way just to stay connected because like I said, there's so many we all know. Just walk down anyone out. There are so many choices. There's most of the choices are gonna be pretty good. You're probably gonna be happy with what you buy. So how do you differentiate yourself, right? You differentiate personality. And that and that's something that I love. Definite. I was just listening to a conversation about how really there's, like, not really flawed wines in the market anymore. You know, like, thirty years ago, maybe you would pick up a wine that was oxidized or reduced or had Brett or something. But now for the most part, you know, these wines are pretty technically, quote, unquote, flawless. So how can you differentiate yourself? And I think you're calling out some really good examples of ways to to take your personality and spread it. It's the one owned up really quote unquote honorable thing that is nearly impossible to replicate. Right? Because we've all heard like, everything is handcrafted and then, you know, the wines are made in the vineyard, and we've got only the best barrels and blah blah blah. I mean, it's like everybody says that. But when you kinda get to know the people behind the brand, especially if they're small, you know, for the smaller producers who don't have, you know, the bigger budgets, they're not moving hundreds of thousands of cases. That's a totally different animal. You know, for those smaller guys, and I'd say, like, even like from a hundred thousand cases and below, you know, really dependent upon the support of those the repeat customers, you know, that are gonna, you know, continue to support you and bring your bottle, pull it off of a wine list, bring it to, you know, a friend's house, recommend somebody visit your wine area if you're gonna be in wine country, you know, building those disciples. It's like, it's just so important. Yeah. Absolutely. And from my own personal experience, I had it a winery thirteen years ago, because it was on my honeymoon, in Piamante that I still talk about to this day. I still drink those wines to those this day. It's like you can make a lifelong Ambassador by connecting well with your audience. You know, it's funny. I don't know anything about what happened with you, but I'll be is a heck of a lot more to do with, you know, the people that you met and the experience that you went through, then the wines that you tasted. You kinda would go, yeah. Because really, I mean, that's what that's what people remember. I go, oh, man. That was a really cool thing. And that's why, you know, one of the things that I get a little bit. Not everybody agrees with me on this, but, like, I don't love how we've changed with regard to, like, tasting fees and appointments and things like that. I feel like I feel like in some ways, I get why people, you know, some wineries have embraced it some embraced it more than others. But I also feel like gosh, like, I missed those days when you could come to wine country, you know, you're visiting San Francisco. You take a day or two in wine country. You don't know much about wine. You could pop in on, you know, to a tasting room. Somebody nice would be there to greet you, and you go and you learn a little something, and you have a good experience. And that's the kind of thing that really resonates when they go back on the go, you know what? I didn't really know much about wine, but I visited a couple of tations. I learned a couple things, and Now I'm starting to buy some wine. I feel like the way we've evolved and, you know, maybe I'm just picking on Sonoma Nap a little bit. It's just gotten so cost prohibitive for people, especially younger people. And I think that's something that we need to take a serious look at. I agree completely because we've lost that to your point, that customer. So it used to be you could rely really heavily on people weekenders coming up from the Bay Area just for the day to go wine tasting, but now that they think it's either it's cost prohibitive or it's calendar prohibitive. Like, you have to have a reservation weeks in advance. They're not coming up. And when we're talking about losing, you know, tourism down, how can we communicate to them that they're so welcome here? Or anywhere where where you're trying to find tourists, visitors. Yeah. It's definitely it's a challenge. There's no easy solutions because on the flip side, the reality is is that running these winery operations has gotten a lot more expensive as well. So it's Absolutely. Another thing in our world that's just, you know, complicated. You know, it's a very gray. Yeah. Kind of on this point, do you have maybe some ideas for actionable steps, some brands wineries can take to improve their operations and really stay relevant in today's rapidly changing market? Well, I don't know about, like, you know, what you might have, like, changing your operations. I think some of the things we talked about earlier, regardless of what aspect of the winery operation we're talking about, I think you know, there are technology solutions that can help you be more efficient. I think you have to be looking. They are looking at. That's, you know, that's another term I use a lot. It's like necessity being the mother of invention. Like, you know, if you're having labor issues, you better figure out a way around that. So I think, you know, technology is a big thing. I think in terms of in terms of making our region, you know, you could pick on any little appalachian or any county. I do think that they're, you know, and this is what's the beautiful thing about our industries. Like, we do recognize it's important for us to continue to work together. That's why our our wider associations are so important. You know, I would love to see, and I think we're starting to see it now, but like, hey, you know, no tasting fees, Wednesday, or no tasting fees March, or, you know, just things that just putting those special offers out there to people to make it a little bit more enticing, knowing that once they're here, it's very easy to fall in love with wine country and going exploring, you know, these different liners and different wines, but we gotta, you know, you've gotta get them here. And, there lies the challenge. But listen, you know, I know that, you know, the wind machine is going through challenging times, but it's not gonna go away. It's just too much a part of of life, and it has been for thousands of years. I would say the same thing about you know, wine co channel character up in Northern California or along the central coast, or other emerging wine regions around, you know, around the country. There's just something cool about being at a winery and surrounded by vineyards and tasting something that you know, was came from the fruit that, you know, just outside the window there. It just says something cool about that. Absolutely. We might be biased, but I don't know. I think, you know, especially, you know, for your thinking also about Italy, you know, the feeling of going to these places that is so connected to the naturalness of the area, but also connected to the community and how the community thrives. It just feels like what better way is there to, you know, experience a culture than to have something like this? Yeah. No. I it's it's not us. Alright, man. You know, they come here, they go, oh my god. It says, great. I wanna live here. I wanna move here. You know, and if they're if they're working up, they go, you know what? I don't need I need to buy one of these things. This is a great signal. And they realize, oh, yeah, you gotta work hard. It's not easy. It's not all, like, it's not all, you know, you know, beautiful. Yeah. It's not all thinking glasses and and gourmet food. Well, you did also, mention in your takeaways that we need to do a better job of connecting with the wine curious So what does that mean to you? Who are the wine carrier? What kind of alluded to that a little bit in in the comment that I just made about, you know, those folks that are out there and they're gonna go visit San Francisco and then maybe visit the Redwoods and check out the Northern California coast and, hey, let's go check out wine country because they're, you know, paint a picture of, like, somebody who maybe did not grow up with, you know, wine on their tables, you know, on a regular basis. It wasn't part of their you know, what their mom and dad did. So but they see it on, you know, you see it on TV. You know about wine, but it's gonna be a little intimidating. That's what I mean by the wine because that person goes like, you know what? I'm I'd like to learn a little bit more. I'm limmy a little too afraid to ask, but I just don't know anything. So I'll order a cocktail. Those are, like, the wine curious people that I want us to get back to doing a good job with. And that's where I kind of go back to, like, I think for those folks, that's where it can get a little bit intimidating, you know, whether it's the cost of a tasting, or having to schedule, you know, far out in advance. I mean, just coming to, like, picking our little town here, it's like, I don't know how many wineries are within, like, a fifteen mile radius. I think it's ninety something. I've I've had to look it up before. It's, like, ninety something. It's nuts. And so you know, that's not that much different than walking down a wine aisle and saying, hey, go grab a bottle of wine. It's like, oh my god. It's overwhelming. Like, where do I go? To the biggest one, to the smallest one? I don't know, you know. So I just think finding ways to make those kinds of folks feel welcome and invited. And given the chance, like, I remember like being a station woman and having to deal with folks like that back in the day. And I love when I get people like that because I would just say, Hey, because you could tell they were nervous. Say, hey, listen. Here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna go through some wines. I'll tell you a little bit about them, and all you need to do is figure out we'll try to figure out what you like and what you don't like. And that's it. If I pour you something, you don't like it, just belt it out, right, in the belt bucket, and you're not offending me. It's all good. Like, so let's just have a little fun with it. And I think most people always bought something. You know what I mean? And I think they would like back to, like, when we talked about it, I think My goal was like to have them have a good experience and feel like, you know what? That was pretty cool. And that maybe not feel so intimidated when they go to the next place. Yeah. Because they're feeling supported by you in their discovery. And that's when we're talking about a subject that is a little less basic complex It's so helpful to have people that are supporting you in opening the door. Yeah. Exactly. I mean, I think if we could just and I know what it's like, right, to kinda go like, you know, it's people to go like, they don't know if if it's good or bad. Right? It's like, you know what? It's all that matters is if you'd like it. But it's just like it seems like such a simple thing, but it's not so simple when it, you know, when you you start thinking about the regular consumer, there's just something to be said for, like, feeling for those folks feeling intimidated. So Yeah. Yeah. Well, let's spend a moment here. We'll do a little plug for wine industry network, but this is really you, you know, we're talking earlier about tools and tech, and this is a great tool. So can you explain a little bit more how it supports professionals to stay informed about current trends and industry news. And and also really, especially, I mean, I guess, in related to engaging these new consumers that are really hungry for. So always hard to kind of explain exactly what we do at Windness Network. You know, it's on one hand, a lot of what we do is work to support our industry vendors. Right? So those guys sell bottles, barrels, cork, etcetera. We do a lot of marketing promotion on their behalf. We put on trade shows and conferences. But the real value proposition that we offer them is access to a wine industry audience. You know, those folks that need those bottles, barrels, cork, tractors, etcetera. And so to that end, you know, what we work really hard at is providing good being a great resource for them. So whether that's trying to stay up on wine industry news, we have, an email that goes out Monday to Friday called their afternoon brief. It just recaps what's happening in the industry to keep them informed and make it really easy for them to stay informed. We put on conferences, you know, in person traditional conferences where we tackle subject matter from, you know, production, vineyard, sales and marketing, and what we call strategy leadership sort of big picture thinking. During COVID, we we really jumped in with both feet on producing webinars, educational webinars because we had, you know, we were like, how do we we need to continue to push information out there, which we'd continue to do because that's really fun. We can get expert speakers from all over the world to speak to our audience. But all of that really falling under the resort, the the umbrella of we wanna be a great business resource regardless of what your role is in the industry. And I think the other thing that we do, which I'm I'm proud of, and we'll we'll always do is continue to support other organizations like our winery associations and their efforts, you know, to keep, to keep things moving in a positive direction because they play such an important role And I don't think that they get the credit that they deserve. And, you know, I'm not sure why, but they just don't. They're kind of those unsung heroes. So we we're big supporters of our winery associations as well. That's wonderful. And so you are based in the US and Sonoma County, but really what you offer is relevant to an international audience. And so Italians, for example, could participate in the webinars. Absolutely. We we work very closely with some of our Italian friends. Especially on on the production side. It was one particular group called Venidia, and you've been called Enoforum. And it's just it's more technical, but there's a lot to be learned from what our colleagues are doing around the world. So we try to, you know, to do the best we can to include those. That's there's a lot. I mean, for the most part, it's, you know, our audience is primarily a North American wine industry audience, but on the speaker side, if you will, you know, they're from all a lot of folks from all over the world. Yeah. So always something to learn from everybody. You know what? We're all in it together. Yes. Exactly. Well, as we start to kinda wind things down a little bit, we like to wrap up our episodes with a rapid fire quiz where we ask our guests three questions to really help our listeners better understand the US market and really specifically this episode. So if you could just answer in a few sentences, that would be great. Number one, Pretty broad. What is your number one tip for mastering the US wine market? Hey, you've gotta have a plan. So have a plan, and you need to spend time in the market. So if you're out there, if your goal is to let's say attack the, you know, because most brands are gonna attack a region. Right? So you're not gonna go try to do the entire country. Spend time in that region. Spend time in the market, build those relationships and do a lot of listening. Do more listening than talking. I love that. Such a good reminder to, yeah, be a good listener. Okay. Number two, what is something you would have told your younger professional self about selling wine in the US? I think I would've try to calm myself down and just say, hey, it's it's not as complicated as you think. What you don't know, you you will learn, there are so many people out there that are gonna be willing to teach you. You have to be okay with asking for help. And I guess go back to what I just said. It's like, listen. You'll pay attention. You do not need to reinvent the wheel. There are folks out there that will help you. Great advice. I love that too. Alright. Number three, we all move around a lot in the wine industry. So what is your favorite travel hack when doing market work? For me, I think, sort of embrace. So when you travel and you're out there in the market, you're not catching it up. It's hard to keep up on what's happening with your, you know, the emails and some of the other things you need to do. My big thing was like, take advantage of that plane time. You know, when you're on the plane, yeah, I know you wanna watch, you know, something download on Netflix, just completely zone out, but for me, that was the time that I would catch up on all of my work because I was uninterrupted. And then that would allow me to be present when I was in the marketplace. So that was I I think that was my big thing. It's like, don't waste that playing time. That's a perfect time to take care of your business, and then they allow you to focus when you're out there doing your thing. Yeah. Great advice too. Like, get get it's it's, you know, especially if you're coming from Italy, that's, you know, somewhere between six and twelve hours depending on where you're going in the US. So well, George, thank you so much for being here with us today on Master Class US wine market, part of the Italian wine podcast. How can our listeners connect with you or connect with wine industry network? Yep. If you, you know, interested in learning a little more about wine niche network, go to wine entry network dot com. For the, news that I mentioned, we have a sister site and editorial site called wine industry advisor, wine industry advisor dot com, that afternoon brief that I referenced, that is free. You could sign up for that wine industry advisor dot com. I think that's just a great way, great start for people to wanna just get up, you know, what's happening on a regular basis. Amazing. Well, okay. Thank you again so much for being here with us. And being that we're just down the road from each other, I hope to see you very soon. I hope so, Barbara. Thanks for having me. It's been great. Yeah. Take care. And that's a wrap for this episode of Masterclass US wine market. Thank you so much for joining us. If you enjoyed this episode and want stay up to date with the latest industry trends, remember to like, follow and share our podcast. And if you find value in our conversations, please leave us a review to help others discover the show and grow our community. Stay tuned for new episodes every Monday. Until then, we