Ep. 814 Lia Tolaini | Get US Market Ready With Italian Wine People

This episode is brought to you by the Italy International Academy, the toughest Italian wine program. One thousand candidates have produced two hundred and sixty two Italian wine ambassadors to date. Next courses in Hong Kong Russia, New York, and Verona. Think you make the cut. Apply now at vin Italy international dot com. Thanks for tuning into my new show. Get US market ready with Italian wine people. I'm Steve Ray, author of the book how to get US market red. And in my previous podcast, I shared some of the lessons I've learned from thirty years in the wine and spirits business helping brands enter and grow in the US market. This series will be dedicated to the personalities who have been working in the Italian wine sector in the US. Their experiences, challenges, and personal stories. I'll uncover the roads that they walked shedding light on current trends, business strategies, and their unique brands. So thanks for listening in, and let's get to the interview. Hello, and welcome to this week's edition of Get US Market Ready with Italian wine people. My guest this week is Leah Tolaney. And, the interesting thing I've I've had a connection to Leah for about fifteen or twenty years, only either she nor I knew about it, which was kind of fun, in in a couple of ways. So, Leah, welcome to the show. Thank you. It's an honor to be here. I wouldn't go as far as honor, but okay. Tell us a little bit about Banville wine merchants and Benville and Jones and the winery in Italy. Kind of a brief background of how how you got here and why we're having this conversation. Okay. Brief. That that's a challenge, but I will do my best. The story starts with my father, Pierluigi Thleni, who, was born in Tuscany. He immigrated to Canada in nineteen six. And the plan was to come to Canada, work for a few years, go back. Dude, his father did, which was have a farm, make some wine. He always maintained that his father made bad wine because they used to literally squish it with their feet, of course, back in the day. So once he got to Canada, he ended up working hard, created a trucking company that actually became, the largest privately owned trucking company in Canada. So he worked very hard. And then at sixty two decided that it was time to go back and fulfill his dream of making a great line. So he went to Castalua Verdanga, a region that, he always had his eye on and bought twenty five hectares in Castalua Verdanga, and started his project you know, I think, like, everybody maybe that's not in the wine business at the beginning starting at at sixty two in hindsight was probably something that, he didn't realize it was gonna take as long as it has to actually build a brand and, and, move forward. The first few years, of course, planting vines and all of that is a is time consuming. But he he did it, unfortunately, passed away in two thousand nineteen, but we are full full force ahead of my son, who's my youngest son, who is there, taking care of things for me this year. At the winery, he's helping out. I'm excited about having my youngest son in the business. And in two thousand and two, when my father realized that we needed to sell the wine that he was so happily making. He went to the US, and he had interviewed several importers and came back very disgruntled and upset that nobody was as passionate as he was about this project. So nothing's changed. Imagine nowadays back then. So, you know, in true pure Luigi style, he saw the obstacle and the solution was start our own import company. And I had been hanging around probably bothering him more than he needed. I have started in the wine business in Canada with a private wine store with my sister. I worked with my sister for maybe a year and realized that I didn't wanna be in retail in Canada. So I was helping my dad out in Italy, and this opportunity presented itself. It was perfect. Was a make work project for me, solved a a problem for Talaney, and we started what was Bamel and Jones at the beginning, which today is Bamba wine merchants in Boston in two thousand and four. And so now fast forward to two thousand and twenty two. Give us a sense of the size of the company, what markets you're in, and a number of products, maybe cases that you sell. Okay. So that's all a very good question. We are a national importer. We moved in two thousand and five to New York. We have, I'm gonna say about eighty wineries that we import. We now are mostly Italian for the most part, but we do. We have expanded into Burgundy, the rest of France, a few wineries from Germany. We have about fifty employees nationally, and of which twenty of those are on the street in New York. We have a wholesale company in New York, New Jersey now, as well as a wholesale company in DC and Virginia, and one in Oregon as well. So we're expanded from national importing to being wholesaler in a few markets. So things have gone well. We've been growing rapidly. Oh, good. One other point of contact I had alluded to earlier is, your office in New York is on, East thirty eighth Street. And my first job in New York was for a PR agency on East thirty eighth Street, literally right across the street from where your office is. So small world. I don't know. That means something to me. Probably nobody who's listening to this show, but let's go back to Banville wine merchants and tell us what the mission of the company is. You know, what it is that kinda defines you? I've I've heard the Banville name around a lot. I've known some people who have worked there, and it's always kinda struck me as being kind of a breed apart. Maybe you can comment on. Well, thank you. You know, I think when you're a producer and you come to market as a producer, you approach things differently. We feel very much. We feel very strongly about building brands for wineries, for, you know, trying to concentrate on on premise, higher end accounts, building the image, working with journalists, critics, etcetera, and building a brand. It's a little slower process. But I believe with patients, you know, it can't be about volume at first, which is a hard conversation for Italians because, you know, it's usually starts off with we've got all this wine, and we wanna sell it tomorrow, which is in my opinion, if you wanna build a brand, it needs to be done in a more strategic way, and that's what we we do for our suppliers. So the suppliers we do have are people that appreciate, you know, brand building, starts off with lower volume key placements, and then, you know, telling the story, making sure that all of our customers know the story of the wineries. All of our winers have a sense of place, which I think is very important, especially nowadays, and just communicating that. So you you touched on a couple of issues there, which I think are kind of interesting. One of them is when you say a a a sense of place. You know, there's there's a lot of use and misuse and abuse of the word terroir in the wine world as we know. But I think it's it's more a function of a sense of place, not necessarily the soil specifically and literally, but everything that goes into how they make wine and, you know, where the aspect ratio of the winery is, where the winds come from, and all that kind of stuff. But it's also a matter of the philosophy of the people behind the winery and what they do. That's a big part of it. So I try and actually not use the the word terroir, but the idea of sense of place. So talk about some of the other you've got the core winery itself, which is Teline. And what are some of the other major brands that you're you're carrying? And what what do you think kind of defines them where maybe ties them together. Okay. Well, you know, I think I would have to start with the four brands that at the beginning when we started, and I told them my plan, they came on board, and it's been full force since then. Cantina Turlano is one of them. And I think Turlano, if I think back to two thousand and four, was a winery that wasn't well known. It was sold mostly in Italy. We can't get enough wine now. Cantina Turlano was definitely not by my many journalists have said top white wine producer from Italy. And that, you know, has we build the brand over a long period of time. We started with started very slowly, and and now today, you know, they are I think, definitely scrambling to make more wine for the whole world. They've done an amazing job. And it's a winery that's been there since eighteen ninety six. So it's not, a new winery by any stretch of the imagination. And then there's, farina in Papulicella, a historic family, one of the originals, and Claudio is like a brother to me. You know, we have been working together, like I said, since two thousand and four, started off slowly, and now, you know, they're enjoying some great volumes in the United States. I think you know, we're up to over twenty thousand cases, which is, substantial. I'm, you know, we're at a point. I believe at Bamboo, where we're just I feel like we're just getting started. We've put a lot of blood sweat and tears into getting to this point, and it has been almost twenty years. But, now I feel like we've expanded to the point that we I I would add that I think that the I found that to be true just from the mentions that that I've heard about the company and the the esteem that you're held by, other people in the industry. So, do the wines when I'm talking about, you know, how do they kind of hang together? Is it because of region? Is it because of style? Is it because of the structure of the company being a a state of family owned as a state produced? Is it the price? Kinda where You know, I think it's all of that. I think that it's definitely about the people, and you're right. When you say a sense of place, it's definitely about the people. The story, the history, you know, you can talk about terroir, but when you talk about some of my Cantina Turlano, which is a, cooperative, but it has eighty members that are small families that make up this cooperative. So, you know, I believe that still for the quality for all of the wineries that we represent, the quality and the price point is fair. There's great quality and over delivers for the price point, and that's what we try to do. So that's one common theme. I think the other is that they genuinely appreciate to come to the market, and they appreciate being here and know how complicated this market is. And approach it with, you know, they're humble and and just happy to be present in the US. So is that the only, Cantina Soggi, or, coop that that that you're working with, or actually have Cantino Copartino, who is also one that has been with me since the beginning, and, you know, Southern Italy Pollia, amazing people. And we have one wine from them, which Copartino, if you haven't tasted it, I highly recommend it's the old world wine that's, you know, fourteen ninety nine. I think on the shelf it hasn't changed price. It's always I think we're selling now probably the two thousand and sixteen, an amazing wine, but price point is incredible for quality. So skipping ahead and and some of the things that we're gonna talk about, I I I use the word or the the word is incoming, the for the plethora of wineries who are just clamoring to get into the US market. That's one of the reasons why I wrote my book. It's also one of the reasons why we're doing this podcast. Is to help wineries who, and spare producers who wanna come to the US markets, not make the same mistakes that others have made before them again for the first time. And it seems like people are bound and determined to do that. So you've started from the very beginning. Probably made a lot of those mistakes, I would imagine the beginning, but now you see it over and over again. How open are you to new wineries? How are they reaching out to you? And what would you tell or what do you tell wineries who are not paired for the US market, but think they are because I make a really great wine. Yes. I think that that is certainly, you know, I there's a lot of good wine out there. There's a lot of good wine and it comes down eventually to the people. You know, it's hard to give advice. Because there is so much wine in the market. You have to have a plan ready. You know, why are you unique? Why would consumers in the US want your wines? Are you aware of the pricing of your competitors in the market and what that means to your acceler price? I think the biggest thing is people think that we need them. And unfortunately, you know, nobody needs any wine in the United States. So you need to have a story for sure. The wines need to be great, and they need to overdeliver for the price point, which is always the hardest obstacles to overcome because it is a very competitive market. So, you know, if people wanna come and, and they think it's gonna be their biggest selling market and they're most profitable, it's usually not the US, in my experience, has always been twenty to thirty percent less ex seller price. Just to compete with everybody else. So you have to be prepared for that. And I get lots of emails from people, but nobody ever follows up with a phone call. Why is that? Isn't that crazy? I I I see that it's the same thing that somebody will do a mass email why go through the effort if you're not gonna do the follow-up or then it's just like throwing right in the front spaghetti on the wall and hoping something's fixed and generally speaking at one. We're kinda like going to a trade fair and looking at your cell phone all day. Not making eye contact with people who are walking by. Back to your company. So your focus, I think, or my my take on it is, has been more on premise than off premise. What impact has COVID had on you? I mean, what what is your perspective on, the restaurant business? Particularly in New York and and more specifically the Italian restaurant business, particularly in New York. And and then second question is where's it going? Twenty was a brutal year. You know, we were heavily on premise. It taught us, you know, I think the biggest word that I heard repeated so often in twenty twenty was pivot. We were able to pivot a bit. And, we also had good, good or bad, but it ended up being a good thing. We had ordered a lot of wine at the end of twenty nineteen in preparation for what might have been the of so invested in a lot of inventory of our bigger movers. So we had good inventory and we were able to pick up some retail business, but it it definitely taught us to not put all our eggs in one basket. So I think you know, we used to be eighty percent on premise. I'm gonna say now we're sixty five percent. Now, is that a decline in on premise or is that a decline in on premise and an increase in off premise? I think it's an increase in off premise, mostly. And, you know, we've been trying to be as as we can to our restaurant customers through all of this who have, you know, suffered incredibly with whatever we can do, to help out. But I think it's coming back. I think, you know, my general feeling, I get that people in general are done. You know, we've got the vaccines hopefully? Yes. The that everybody feels that way, but but we're not. Unfortunately. Okay. Well, another issue that came up over the past three years, really, has been this whole thing with CBMA and the reduction in federal excise taxes. Presuming you guys have taken advantage of that and understand how it works. Can you give a comment on what impact that has had on the overall Italian wine business as a whole? Yeah. No. It'll be minimal. I think that, you know, I have an amazing president of the company, Samoy Luketti, who's been with me for ten years now. And I know that they've taken care of all that, but I think that it I'm not gonna say it doesn't help, but I think, you know, when we evaluate a winery, it's still based on the people, the wines, and yes, the pricing for SIR is definitely key one of the questions I hear all the time usually from Paul, them uninformed to not ignorant people is how come everybody else in the industry is making more money on my wine than I am and I have to own the land or, you know, at least it grow the grapes suffer the consequences of, you know, weather and drought and all this kind of stuff. How do you answer that question? You've got a smirk on your face. We can see each other. My dad said, oh my goodness, had I known? Would I really have bought all this land and and do everything manually and and invest so much in, you know, good people and and doing things the right way? Because, yeah, there's there's a subtle difference, I think. I think for, you know, the general consumer, whether it's wine that's bought grapes and and bottled or if it's actually handpicked and all that, there there's some some differences. But again, for the general consumer, is there. So selling a wine that is handpicked and hand created, we'll say, comes from vineyards, etcetera, has to have more value. But I think we're still at the beginning of communicating all of that. To people. And, yeah, it's it's a it's a tough conversation. Oh, gee, I thought you were gonna give me the answer. I wish I had it. Okay. But back back to your point about off premise, your wines have a story behind them. I think that's fundamental to the wines that you bring in. Selling to off premise is different, and it's different now than it ever was. For a whole lot of reasons, beyond just the technology and COVID and all the rest of that stuff, where does brick and mortar off premise fit in, the world of Banville wine merchants. And what does that mean in the term in terms of the way the the wines are sold and and more importantly the way the wines are purchased? Well, I think when you're talking about on premise, it's a lot about relationships and off premise. I think the ones that we have, the and the way that our companies run is it's very much about the relationships that our salespeople have with their customers. You know, that's what I've seen. That's what counts the most. And it's why it's important for for us as a company to have great great salespeople that can talk about wine. I think the old days of just talking about the soccer game and and, you know, who's great at soccer. I think the world the wine world has been elevated and there's a lot of people that know a lot about wine now. So, you know, having your WSTT or having some education is is is a given now, whether you're a buyer or or whether you're on this side of it. And relationships, I think, have a lot to are the primary. Once you have a great portfolio, the wines are are wonderful pricing. Everything's a constant, then the next thing is relationships. That really just gets that's the ante on the table, I think. So what can wineries do or what does an importer put your importer head on now? What do you expect wineries to do to help promote their products in the United States. And I guess address the whole question about the the impression people, some producers have of once I have an importer, they're gonna take responsibility for selling my wine. And, you know, then there's this still common fallacy that they're gonna come to market five times a year and help us. That's not helpful. You know, those days are gone. Why not? Explain that. Why not? They think it is, and they've been told that it is, and working the market is is critical. How has that changed? And what should they be doing? I think that working the market is effective. If you come and your importer has some events planned, some luncheons, and you're there for a small period of time. If you're, you know, gonna work, New York, each day with a nc five or six customers a day. I'm not sure anymore that that's a really good use of your time. You know, I I I do believe that market visits are important, but I think we need to try to be as efficient with everybody's time as possible. I feel it's something also that, you know, this whole pandemic has has taught us is travel less be in front of people any way you can, but it doesn't have to be personally. Make sure the wines are there, you have someone to speak to them. You may not be in person and maybe personally but not in person zoom and and some of the bigger ways of doing tastings. But but back to the point about, working the market. I mean, a lot of times we used to say working the market and that was equated to doing a work with. And, my personal feeling is I don't think work with work anymore and distributors are not real thrilled with them because they're taking their people off the street away from the what they should be doing. Sales people are getting much more efficient in all these electronic marketplaces from seven fifty and all these other ones. They're no longer just making the root. So what is expected from a salesperson of the winery to help them do their job better? Well, I think it's about being efficient using the money that they would have spent to come to market and finding different ways to invest. And I'm a big proponent of taking, groups to Italy, taking groups to Italy to come see the winery. And that's a big expense. But if you can get, you know, this in Italy, we're taking twenty five people to Italy, that the wineries are are sponsoring. You know, I think that that's a great investment. I think every time someone comes to market, the cost involved of their time and all the time that's required from, like you said, the wholesalers, and the salespeople in organizing these trips that people also adverse to them. I think that their zone, my god, there's another supplier coming, whether you're, you know, a buyer, you know, can't see people all day long every day anymore either. So I think we are gonna have to just figure out how to be more efficient. And I do believe that zoom, and I do believe that, you know, Lensions classroom, we have a classroom in Bamboo. We put a classroom in on purpose because I think having a supplier on zoom and having them went there coming tasting. It's just as, it's just as is good. As long as you have the lines and you have the presentation, whether the guy is actually there physically or not. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. It it makes a bit of a difference, but I'm all for trying to maximize, you know, an investment in the market in different ways than them traveling to the market. So I've seen that with with PR agencies and stuff, you know, where we used to get invites to travel and you might be within a group, you know, small group from six to eight or twelve to fifteen or sometimes even fifteen to twenty five multiple buses. You know, you're limited on how many people it's expensive. To do that. With a lot of the zoom tastings, especially, you know, putting them in smaller bottles, who would have ever thought, we would much less be allowed to do that, much less do it. And you can now reach four hundred people where you might have reached ten, twenty, maybe forty if you're really pushing it. So it becomes a lot more efficient both for everybody's time because it's an hour on the on on Zoom call, two hours, whatever you're doing. You still have the engagement with everybody else. But at the same time, it loses what you just described. And and I know this as well as anybody else. When you go and you're at that winery and you wake up in the morning, the sun is shining and you're you're the roosters crowing and the birds chirping and all of this other stuff going on, you understand that winery better than you ever could from reading about her or even seeing pictures. You know, so so the way I just phrase it is, look, I can't bring everybody to the winery. How do I bring the winery to them? So Zoom is one way of doing it. What other things have you done that you think are helping you solve that problem? Yeah. No. I absolutely especially the last year having doing the Zoom calls and having, you know, our division manager in Chicago with five customers and having, you know, all nine division managers and the sales team in New York with customers, and you can reach a few hundred people. You know, the wines are sent out. And I think it's good. The other, you know, having an Italian winery, I have noticed there are more people a in Italy doing hospitality from a winery point of view, you know, having, a tasting room, which is something ten years ago, nobody did, or very few did. But now I do see even at Talaney, we have so many people coming even during COVID that are, you know, in the wine business. And they know, maybe in London or maybe whatever and they drove Italy and they're just stopping and seeing all these wineries, which I think that's the other side of this is people want to learn more. And if you're in this industry, you know, you get on the road and you also try to, learn as much as you can. Right? So that's something that I didn't see before the last ten years, last five years. I've seen a lot of people show up at the winery who, you know, we're open. We have a Tasty room. We do this. And I've seen a lot of people phone book come and, more than ever before, which is great. So the to compare and contrast, you know, one of the things that is legal for American wineries, domestic wineries to do that is illegal or not possible for imported wines is to sell wine directly to consumers. So, a lot of people I talk to say, well, you know, the three tier system is a problem. I wanna find a way around it and all that while there isn't a way around it, but they're upset that, you know, American wineries have this dispensation. They could sell directly. We're approximating that in a lot of different ways with all these different e commerce solutions, whether it's a third party facilitators or other direct type things, either direct from if not from a winery to a consumer, but from a retailer to the consumer. One of the biggest assets the wineries have that I see most of them fail to take advantage of is the people who have come to their winery and to leverage the those people for just that reason and ask them to do something for you, and they probably would be more willing to do it for you, but nobody really asks. Can you talk about that and how social what role social media might play in that and and so forth? Yeah. When people come to our winery, we ask them to fill out a form and we keep or email, and we let them know from the, you know, American side or Canada or wherever they are when we're releasing any wine, and we try to include the wholesaler distributor. You know, I think we have, like, three hundred emails from people just visiting Tylaney, their fans that actually they buy the wine when we when we write them an email. I think, you know, once they've been there and they've seen it and they feel like they're part of it, that you can keep that connection. But, yeah, we absolutely do. The next part direct to consumer, I've was, you know, having a long conversation yesterday with the president of our company with Simone and the other people. And I wanna figure out how, yeah, how can we fulfill the person that visited Talaney or whichever winery it is and get them their wine because it's a complicated thing. Yeah. Just as a point of reference on that one, commenting on some of the other suppliers and customers that I work with. It's not just the people who have come. It's the people in their network to make them evangelists for you. So all those other people are never gonna, you know, most of them are never gonna be able to come to the winery. That doesn't mean they can't feel that they've almost been there by being one, you know, degree separated from somebody that does. So how do you do that? You know, the answer I think commonly is social media. It's also leveraging things like drizzly and City Hive and some of these other things. My argument to people is, look, you know, we're no longer a demographically driven marketplace. In fact, we never were. The only reason why we looked at geography and household income was because it was a way to aggregate people Well, really, what you wanna do is segregate them and I and have them self identify as being interested in a subject. So if they're interested in your particular region or your particular style of line or whatever it happens to be, they could live anywhere. It doesn't really matter. And now the tools are out there to be able to deliver to somebody, you know, in Kansas who may be a wine person, but you would never get a salesperson out. Theoretically, great. What are you gonna do about it? I know I'm putting you on the spot here. Very valid question, and I ironically have a friend who few people that work at Shopify was talking to them. It's something that I I definitely need to figure out, and I feel like I'm the last one to to figure this out, by the way. I'm sure that, you know, direct to consumer is something that you see everywhere. So I'm trying to figure it out. I do feel like all of a sudden I'm the old person that doesn't understand technology, but I'm I'm it's it's number one on our list to try to figure out. Don't feel insulted by that, but that's an excuse. You're never too old. Technology is that not that complicated, and I think the flip side of it is the deeper understanding you have of who the people are who are buying your wines, why they're buying your wines, how they are sharing the wines with others, is the messaging that has to go out and the question is how do I find like minded people? And if you can define it a little bit more tightly like that, it doesn't seem so impossible to achieve. We're not in the wine industry trying to replicate what face booker or somebody else had done and become, you know, listen, if you wanted to become a hundred millionaire, you wouldn't have gotten into the life business? Oh, yes. Yes. I guess your dad found that out a little bit late. But that doesn't mean we in this industry can't use some of the same tools and technology that's out there to get people who are interested. One of the simplest ways and I don't need to get into a lecture here, although I do attend a lecture is, the use of hashtags. You know, what what is it about the people who have been to your winery that brings them together in common. Maybe it's people who have been to Van Italy, making this up or, you know, Treba Carey, you know, confero Russell or something like that. That those people who are interested in that and are visiting the hashtags would be that much more interested in yours for the trade big area, let message as opposed to wine spectator ninety three, something like that, which brings up the the last question, then we'll get into the takeaway. And then, that question is What's the role of scores? And what do you think about that? Well, you know what? I do think they're important. I think that, you know, people, the general public, does read wine spectator, does, be kidding means something. I think it becomes more important also to know that there's more and more wineries trying to access the market, you know, having a third person validate that your wine is good helps. It even helps, you know, an importer like me. It's important. It is important. And I, you know, work hard with our suppliers because I think it is, you know, they're all good. They're great wines. So, you know, at the beginning, it was harder. Now, you know, they're more well known, and they do get great reviews. So it's easier, but at the beginning. Yeah. It's not easy if you're an unknown winery and you wanna get a journalist attention. You know, it's not easy for sure. Well, I'd argue that point. And what I tell people when when I talk to them is look, you know, I I publish on my website on the first listing in my blog, if you go to Bevology inc dot com, a list of all of the evaluation and rating and review things, and which ones will work with wines that are not currently imported to the US. And the reason that's important is because the first question I always hear from anybody I talk to is do you have scores? And there's only one answer to that question. And yes, because the answer is no. The conversation just ended. So that's something that you can do from Italy. You can, you know, there's lots of competitions that you can enter from Italy or if you have some people in the US that can help facilitate it for you, get a score. So at least you get past the first question, which is really stated to see whether you you you've even taken the first step in the right direction, which is to have a score. I don't mean to to berate you or anybody else about that, but it's one of the simplest things that a winery can do. Along with and I've talked about this before, not only with you, but on previous podcasts is the importance of optimizing how your brand appears online. That is something that's in the winery's control. It does not require a great deal of technical expertise and is their responsibilities. So if you wanna do something, don't get on a plane and fly to New York and figure if someone's gonna roll out the red carpet, optimize your your product online. I'll get off my soap box. Question for you is of all the things that we talked about. We touched on a lot of things here. What is the big takeaway that someone who's listening to this conversation was with? You're now twenty some odd years of experience or almost twenty years of experience in in the business. You can share with somebody that can benefit them that they don't have to work so hard or make the same mistakes. Yeah. I mean, that's a really good question. I think from a, you know, general consumer point of view, I think that there's so much wine out there that, yeah, doing your homework is and and digging deep and finding, you know, the hidden gems, if you will. As a winery, like you said, you know what? I think that also your colleagues in Italy are important, an important resource, you know, getting scores, getting your colleagues to have you have a conversation with someone. Someone that's already in the market can help you understand the market better. You know, I think that that's key. I always listen to if one of my suppliers brings me a winery that you know, I I'll have the conversation. And if you send an email, call, follow-up. Like, that's number one. At least if you have the person on the phone, you know, you'll always get some kind of answer, and it'll be probably send me an email again and we'll talk about it or send me something, but at least you know, don't just fish. It there's a great, reference for that, woody Allen. Ninety ninety percent of success is just showing up. I think if you wanna sell your brand in the United States, ninety percent of success is just following up because it says that that you're serious. Okay. So I wanted to say thank you to, Leahini or Tolaini. It's kinda like Spagatini. So tolaini, and then they are Banvo. I have a hyphen and your last name. It's Okay. Of Banville wine merchants. If people wanna get a hold of you, do you wanna share your email and or social handles? They wanna reach out to you? Yeah. Leah, Leah, which is spelled l I a at banville wine dot com. And, yeah, I'm always the the office is, you know, the the it's all online, bambel wine dot com. There's how to get a hold of all of us there. So Well, a big thank you to Lee. I really enjoyed the conversation, and I'm glad we finally had a chance to meet. We've been kinda dancing around one another for twenty years, but never did. So now we have. So that's great. It's great. It's nice to talk to you. And, hopefully, we'll see you for coffee on thirty eighth Street. We'll end also at Van Italy. I'm going there. Although. Wonderful. So big thank you to to Leah for being my guest from, Vanville wine merchants. And join us again next week where we'll have another interesting conversation on Get US Market Ready with Italian wine people on the Italian wine podcast. This is Steve Ray. See you next week. This is Steve Ray. Thanks again for listening on behalf of the Italian wine podcast. Hi, guys. I'm Joy Livingston, and I am the producer of the Italian wine podcast. Thank you for listening. We are the only wine podcast that has been doing a daily show since the pandemic began. This is a labor of love, and we are committed to bring you free content every day. Of course, this takes time and effort not to mention the cost of equipment, production, and editing. We would be grateful for your donations, suggestions, requests, and ideas. 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