Ep. 784 SOS Special | #everbodyneedsabitofscienza

This episode is brought to you by the Italy International Academy, the toughest Italian wine program. One thousand candidates have produced two hundred and sixty two Italian wine ambassadors to date. Next courses in Hong Kong Russia, New York, and verona. Thank you, make the cut. Apply now at viniti international dot com. Welcome to our special SOS. Everybody needs a bit of Shinsa installment. This is a shout out to all the wine geeks out there. We need some feedback on the professor's new book, the English version of jumbo shrimp guide to the origins evolution and the future of the grapevine. The Italian wine podcast is part of the mama jumbo shrimp brand and mama jumbo shrimp is all about breaking down difficult concepts into small bite sized pieces. The issue here is that the new book is well a bit difficult to chew at this point. So we want to invite wine lovers out there to give us their input and advice to make the final product more reader friendly. So have added wine numbers. Don't be shy. Send your comments to info at italian wine podcast dot com. Now on to the show. Hello, everybody. My name's Stevie Kim. And this is a special edition to Everybody needs a bit of Shanesat. I think Joy did a small intro to explain what this is all about. So, yes, this is Italian wine podcast, and we have a special guest today. His name is Richard Holf. Holf. How do you spell that? H o u g h. Okay. So Richard has been with us since when? When did you start with with their group? I know you're putting me on the spot that Was it January? No. No. November. November. Okay. So he's been with us for a few months. He's still here. He hasn't escaped yet. He's been coming to work every day since, and we have asked him to translate the latest book from Professor Atilio Shenza. So first of all, what do you do, Richard? What do you do here? Well, I mean, I'm a copywriter and I suppose, so my job is translating documents, PR, preparing social media, materials in English. Okay. So what about that? That sounds really boring. Well, I'm sorry about that. How long have you been in Verona? I've been in Verona for ten years. Actually, probably just over ten years in fact. And where are you from originally? I'm originally from Glasgow. Oh, no. I can't tell by your accent. Which is in Scotland, if you if you hadn't guessed. Okay. So tell us a little bit about this project you've been working on. Okay. Well, yeah. This is is basically, a piece of work by, as you mentioned, professor Shenze, and he has taken us on a journey through the history of the grapevine, going back to the very origins of the species. Exploring the geological shifts over millennia that have enabled the grapevine to disperse and enable it to be cultivated. And he brings us right up to date with the latest scientific developments and that includes developments in genetic engineering that we've seen in recent years. It's a really complex area about which professor Shenci is obviously really superbly well informed I think your average reader myself included slightly less so. Yeah. I actually was kind of falling asleep. You are beginning to sound like professor Atilia Shane. So, you know, it all sounds interesting, but we we do have we've what can we say? Not a problem, but let's say we have an opportunity to simplify the conversation about this book. So what what what are we doing? What were the obstacles that you found? The challenges? Yeah. Well, the main thing is that Shenzi assumed a lot of knowledge on behalf of his readers. That's on everything from classical mythology, to paleobiontology, to amplification and morphology. So that is obviously pretty, complex. So what I've I've tried to do when I've been doing this translation is introduced from footnotes, give some, diagrams, some illustrations, include a glossary, which is now running to over twelve pages. That sounds about right. Anything that Shenza writes? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the the the book itself, the text itself is is relatively short. You know, he's rooms through the the subject matter, but it it does depend on a lot of that we don't have a lot of background knowledge at their disposal, which you know, I I I think it's it's not always safe to assume that our readers are gonna have. So what is our objective and our target objective in terms of the launch date? When will this book be translated and copy edited into a format that we are satisfied with to be launched. What are we looking at? Yeah. Well, definitely not for Van Italy. That's Yeah. That seems quite ambitious given the stage where I at the moment. I mean, the bulk of the translation is is actually done already. It is just a question now. I think of deciding if what we have in front of us is suitable for publication or whether we need to restructure it reward it, make it a little bit more accessible, improve the narrative flow, make the the key themes of the book even more obvious to the reader, but, because at the moment that the risk is that they are kinda lost in some of the technical aspects. Okay. So where where do we go from here? Well, that's where this conversation comes in. We're we're looking for a bit of a steer from the international wine community. So this is an outreach episode. Right? Yes. Exactly. So we want to know is this a subject that the community is interested in? And if so in what format, we did the first instance original text, but with footnotes and a glossary to help them, or do we need to go back to the drawing board and make something a little bit more accessible? We've also discussed in house the the possibility of doing a audio format. Yeah. Maybe we're we can release them in audio format initially. Perhaps a a sleeping aid, maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And also maybe just practical things like the use of diagrams, graphics, and illustrations. How can we how can we use them to help improve the the narrative? So we'd really like to hear from from listeners, because there is an important story to be told here, but We want to get it right. Alright. So you mentioned this important story and one of the main themes of the book is the question of racism. This is the reason why I was so attracted to this topic and this book, if you will. Right? So how does can you, tell us just briefly, how does the book tackle this issue? Yeah. We know, on top of all the geology, biology, and mythology comes this this murky topic of race, and you don't have to spend too much time reading about the history of evolutionary biology before the pseudoscience of eugenics begins to emerge. And of course at the core of this theory was the belief that human characteristics were predetermined by race In other words, criminality, mental illness, alcoholism, and even poverty all stemmed from hereditary factors. And these as we know went on to shape Nazi Germany's racial policies. But it seems so in a way it's very relevant to current times, right, the criminality, mental illness, alcoholism, poverty, inequity, you know, all of that stuff. So that's why I was personally very interested in coming up with this book. So one question of course our listeners might ask is, but what does any of that have to do with wine? Yeah. That that's a good question given that this is a Italian wine podcast. And one that I've I've kind of been grappling with, to some extent over recent weeks. I mean, if I understand Shienza correctly, he's arguing that the human species has gone through this evolutionary process the concept of race has no biological basis, but that race is basically a cultural and environmental construct. And so the characteristics that we use to identify a particular race skin color, shape, and color of the facial features, etcetera, reflect the process of genetic adaptation winds coming. Hold on. And Shanesa believes that a similar kind of analysis can be formed on the genus fetus which is the Latin for the Grapevine. So there's a similar story to be told about the evolutionary process that led us to the current species that we know as as the Grapevine. So I do want you to start reading some of the excerpt, but I mean, that all sounds terribly interesting, but is there anything that makes the whole discussion a little more relatable contemporary? Yeah. Shenza believes that recent scientific developments in the field of genetics means that it's now time to reopen the debate surrounding the taxonomy or classification of the grapevine And if you think about it, our understanding and identification of wine species is based around the study of things like the shape of leaf, the shape of the grape punch, and even the shape of the seed. Genomics gives us this new tool that we can use to address the subject of classification or taxonomy. Okay. I don't know. I I would have to ask why why is that necessary in any way? Well, this concept of the purity of the European vine is one that the the French wine establishment in particular has been clinging on to for centuries. Yeah. Go figure. Never knew that. Hello. And and the scientific community the shared origin of the American and the European species of wine is still a very divisive issue. So in a way, genomics has has reopened that whole discussion. And then, you know, to to bring it even even more topical, even more up to date, the the whole arguments around climate change, and and pandemic diseases becoming increasingly big issues facing the wind producers. The question of hybrids, genetic engineering will become increasingly important as it serves for the perfect grape continues. An understanding of the complex history, science, and ethics behind genetics is going to be really helpful. And that we hope is where this book could be useful. Okay. So we are well into more than ten minutes of our introduction. So what I'm going to do is stop here for now. And on the next episode, Richard Harve, huff. Ruff. Richard huff will be, reading an excerpt from Professor Shinsa's new book. We still haven't come up with a title yet, but it's about racism in wine grapes and vine genetics. So that is all for now. Signing off for everybody needs a bit of a special edition if you will to kinda open the discussion with our community, our listeners to help us try to navigate through how to better format this type of end design this book so that it is readily accessible and digestible for all readers. That's it. Chinch in with Italian Wine Podcast, and don't forget to follow us on social media. We're on TikTok and we are on Pinterest, and we have actually a new YouTube channel. Which is a video series. It's called mama jumbo shrimp. Yes. Don't ask why. Okay. And then of course Italian wine podcast on Insta, Twitter, and Facebook. As well. Until next time. Chinchin with Italian wine people. Cha Richard. Listen to the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your podcasts. We're on sunk out Apple podcasts, Spotify, email ifm, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italianwine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication until next time. Chichi. Hi, guys. I'm Joy Livingston, and I am the producer of the Italian wine podcast. Thank you for listening. We are the only wine podcast that has been doing a daily show since the pandemic began. This is a labor of love and we are committed to bringing you free content every day. Of course, this takes time and effort not to mention the cost of equipment, production, and editing. We would be grateful for your donations, suggestions, requests, and ideas. For more information on how to get in touch, go to Italian wine podcast dot com.