Ep. 2219 Jessica Dupuy interviews David Way | TexSom 2024

Sort of fell in love with the Italian language. I'm with Italian Andreas Boccelli okay. Who I often say, he's the only man I've ever fallen in love with. You know, you may not be alone there. I think I think. Yeah. And his I mean, about his diction. Tell you, I'm Jessica Duppuis, guest host for a special Texom series covering the twenty twenty four Texom wine Conference from Dallas, Texas. Join me in the heart of the lone our state as we delve into the experiences and insights of key speakers and attendees, exploring career paths, challenges, and the latest trends in the wine industry. If you enjoy the show, please subscribe and rate our show wherever you get your podcasts. Well, David Way, thank you so much for joining us on the Italian wine podcast. I'm particularly excited to have you here because this is your first time ever to Texas. Right? Is my first time in the US. No way. Yes. Really? I went to New York on route to Texas, but that was literally my first time ever in the US. Oh my gosh. That's so exciting. Well, the hospitality and me wants to say like welcome. I wish we could have given you a better a red carpet rollout, but I hope it was good. It was absolutely fantastic. I've had, you know, the most amazing week, and I have to say, absolutely love being in New York, which long did visited four vineyards on Long Island. Okay. Which was amazing, then flown down here and overwhelmed by the warmth of Syscan or hospitality and the literal warmth. I was gonna say we are warm warm people, but also it's a very warm place. Particularly in August. So thank you for bearing with us. Let's start by just kind of, setting the scene. Let's tell the audience about who you are and kind of your journey into the wine world. Sure. So I started off as a wine blogger. One friend dot org is my website, and it's principally about Italy. It does have some French pages. And basically, the fundamental point about the website is that I really only write articles about places I've actually been to. Yeah. So there are a few other countries where basically it's about Italy. I got into it, because of I mean, it's a very strange story. I sort of fell in love with the Italian language. I'm with Italian Andrea Boccelli okay. And I often say it's the only man I've ever fallen in love with. You know, you may not be alone there, I think. Yeah. And he's something about his diction, and the clarity of his voice, when we fall in love with Italian. So I I started going on holiday to Italy and then got very short quickly got very frustrated with not being speak the language, went to learn the language, and in the course of that, offered to teach some entry level classes to people who were learning Italian, but didn't understand the wines that they could drink in the evening. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So I ran these little courses for the language school. And then after that, I thought, well, if I'm gonna do this, I come from academic background. If I'm gonna do this regularly, I really ought to have some qualifications. Yeah. So I started on WSTT. Okay. And, my wife and I did, level two together, then I didn't have a local provider. So it was a bit of a gap, but then I did level three, level four, did further one study. One of those wonderful things in life that if you, if you prepare yourself a lot, sometimes amazing or tutors will arise. So it was just at the moment when they were making redundancies in the company that I was working for. A job came up at the WSTT to help to write the new diploma textbooks. Oh my goodness. Yes. So I I mean, I just could not believe my luck, in terms of timing. Yeah. It was just perfect. So, yeah, so I arrived at the doubleicity in twenty fifteen, Victoria Bert, master of Vine. Now Victoria Mackenzie and I were the two principal writers for the the books which were published in twenty nineteen. Digital books only for our students, four hundred thousand words. Wow. That's crazy. It is actually a solution. Yeah. And, yeah, so it was absolutely amazing project. Yeah. And and you're still involved in it because there's constant updates. I mean, so, I mean, you and I've talked about this before. So I finished diploma a couple of years ago now, and it was definitely your words. I was probably reading at the time. Some of them, some of them were my fault. Yeah. I'm sorry. Yeah. Yeah. I think I did okay. Thanks. But I do it's funny my my shock at the number of words because it is broken up into sections. So I would just pull out what I needed at a time, but I don't actually have it printed out altogether. And so I just didn't even think about the the enormous y of facts. I mean, that obviously gives you context for the entire world of wine, so to speak. But you're at Texon because you're speaking about or you were speaking about a book that you've written for the classic wine library, which is under the Academy Duvan. So maybe tell us about the wines of Pimonte. This is a a book you recently came out with. Thank you. Yes. So the only drawback of working for the WSTT is that as you've just said, we have to cover the whole world. Yeah. So I have like ten pages to write about Guemonto Yeah. More about Tux or whatever. Yeah. Roughly speaking. So you can't go into into serious depth, that this is about bread. My heart has always been in Italy in terms of wine. So I decided after I finished studying that I'd really like to write a book about one region in particular. And eventually, I decided on Piamonte turned out to be the most amazing choice because it had just so much more diversity than I knew about before I started. Yeah. You know, I considered Tuscany, which I'm sure would have also been fantastic and it had no doubt, but it doesn't have the range of wines, that Pumante has. Yeah. So the book, you know, having had ten pages on Pumante in the in the diploma, the book is nearly four hundred pages long. So you got to spend a little more time expanding that. I did. Yeah. And it's really the the unique thing about it, and I think his tune is unique, is that I treat every denomination in Piamonte, and there are sixty of them, with the same seriousness that we usually give only to Rolo and Barbara Yeah. And cover all the important regions. And, you know, I can write as much as I want really about Garvey or Coli Tatonese or Altepe Monte or Caluzo as I do about Arrolin Barrasco. So that was that that was fantastic. And I say that's really the unique thing. Yeah. You know, I I actually agree with that. We're gonna talk about your presentation that you gave in a second, but I love one of the opening things you said, which was, Pemonte is not just the language. And it is so true that when you say, oh, I'm gonna go to Piedmont, you know, I'm but I'm going to Pemonte. People immediately assume, great. Oh, so you where in Barolla are you gonna go? Who are you gonna visit? And, you know, what what, Barbara producers are you gonna see? You know, ultimately. But, I, I, I had a chance to spend some time driving through a lot of the region this past, year as well. And I'm I was blown away by by how much bigger it is than we, unfortunately, tend to, you know, wrap it up. Right? Like, we we we put it into such a small box And so I love that you were able to kind of give equal footing. This is so, like, fan girl, but, I had your book with me while I was going through. And it was great because, you know, I actually spent two days in, tortone, towards the tortoneseic. Yeah. And tortona, we did a big, tasting of all the timorazo, producers. And I feel like I had something more to chew on than what's really out there. In terms of information, understanding the history, the geography exactly what I was looking at. So it was a huge I mean selfishly, it was a huge help for me. Good. But that's I mean, that's what makes, a book like this so helpful is You know, it it may not be some, like, big page turner in terms of, like, your beach reading for fiction in the summertime, but it is super helpful for if you really wanna understand what's going on there. Thank you very much. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You are the ideal reader. You are you are the person I'm looking for. Oh, good. Good. Good. There's plenty more of us out there. I promise you, especially at TexOM. So so in writing this and and we'll kind this will kind of help transition into the seminar you gave, what were some of the surprises? I feel like you and I've talked about this before where it was like, ah, I didn't realize that this is something important to be sharing with the world. And and perhaps that can be kind of how you framed this seminar, you know? So the biggest surprise undoubtedly was the number of really interesting local grape varieties. Just to give on. Just so many in in Piedon. So there are eighty registered grape varieties. Of which about fifty five, sixty are local or indigenous. Okay. And not I mean, just because there is a great variety does not make it an interesting, great variety. Yeah. But there are so many interesting ones. And and that's really what my seminar, was about. Perhaps we'll come back to that. Yeah. The other thing I I really discovered, which I had no idea about at all, was that Piamonte was is actually the birthplace of traditional, methods, sparkling wine in Italy. Without too long. Right? Yeah. Without well, what became on? Beame sorry. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So Karla Jankansha went off as as an eighteen year old, went off to Champagne because, presumably, he drunk Champagne and he liked it, and spent a couple of years there Yeah. Came back founded the famous gancher company and started to make traditional method long before French quarter, twenty dark Ultrapop, all the other places which have since become Yeah. The leading places in Italy for for traditional method. And then there's the whole tank method scene, which is way more interesting than just saying Asdi or whatever. Exactly. Yep. So, and Piedmontese loves love bubbles. And so there are so many interesting red sparkling wines as well, but aromatic and and, sweet and dry, aromatic, non aromatic. So, yeah, those are two things that were just huge surprises and far more depth than I had I expected. Yeah. So for the seminar that you were invited to give at Texom, it was about basically everything beyond, Barbara Esco and Barolo. I did I did sneak some in at the end. I know. And I mean, rightfully so. We are talking about beyonce. So it it was the right thing to do. You're too right. But share with me kind of how you approach this. What did you wanna share with everyone? And what were some of the I mean, I can tell you the highlights after we talk about it in terms of what I I was impressed with. But, but maybe share with me kind of how you attacked Yeah. What you wanted to present. Yeah. So first of all, I wanted to make this point which you've already made. And that is that given to is not the language. Oh, sorry. It's not just the language. Of course, it is the language. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. But, you're not just the language. So, you know, for example, my one of my first slides was a map of the entire region with the six principal areas where grapes are grown, one of which hard anybody will have ever heard of literally, even if you've been in Piamonte ten times, that you won't have been to Val Souza, for example. There. So that was one thing. Just to broaden the perspective, And then after that, it was basically a run through some of these amazing local grape varieties, which which some of which are known a bit, but many of which are at could be known much more and are just from up remarkably high quality So I sort of had a pair of no. It didn't. It had three three three of each, three white, three red. So we started off with Abaluche, which comes from Northern Piamonte, classically associated with the town of Caluso, And this is one that is re really ought to be better known. It's a fantastically high, quality, great variety, very high acid, mod moderately aromatic, makes terrific, still wine, and sparkling wine Yeah. And sweet passito wine. Yes. You mentioned this. Okay. So you have the whole range, of possibilities there. So that's the least known. I think of the whites. The two the two other whites were Nachetta and Timaraso both, which are moderately well known. Timaraso is a real you know, new star, new kid on the block, through the pioneering work of, Valtamasa and a few other producers. Of course. But now up to three hundred and eighty hectares of planting. It's amazing. Including quite a number of famous Barrola Babresco names who have bought vineyards in Colitor Tanesi, which is on our halfway Yeah. In order to have this wine on their list. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's in the US, we're starting to see people request it, you know, to be able to include that, especially for Italian driven restaurant concepts. You know? Yep. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. So So those are the whites, and then a similar sort of thing, basically, with reds. So we started with, grignolino, which is one of my absolute favorite grape varieties. So great. This was pretty good. You know, pale red, you know, you know, you know, is it a is it a dark rosy? Is it a pale red to discuss somewhere between those two? Beautiful aromatics are very, you know, very, very red cherry, very spicy, moderately talent. You you you have to like Italian wine in order to love Greenulino, but then people in this podcast all love Italian wine, so that's fine. It's a good it's a good company. Yes. So, yeah, and you can chill it. In summer. I think it's a lovely, great variety to have wines for chilling. And then two much bigger grapes. So first of all, Fraser. And this was interesting in terms of history because This was this was the eighties last ever bottling of the Vivace, the semi sparkling fraser Yes. Which is part of Pierre Monte's history and tradition Right. But it's really difficult to sell. Yeah. You know, it's rare it's deep red. It's sparkly. It was a surprise. Yes. You know, it's such a tiny market. So we we take we got to taste that. So that was great. I've I have tasted the next edition as it were, which is still, which is again a great wine. Phrases from the most difficult grape variety to make good wine from because it is so tonic. Yeah. It was And so acidic. Yeah. And it doesn't unless you get it perfectly right, it can be quite unpleasant to be honest. Yeah. When I when I when I started doing the research in the book, I realized I really knew nothing about Fraser. And therefore, I just ordered, a case, a mixed case of twelve different bottles from Italy. Yeah. And I tested them, and they were just all over the place. Be straightforward about this. Okay. They were somewhat terrible. Yeah. Some were really good. Siles were all over the place. You know, so I I I regard it as a grape, which which really requires a a champion. Yeah. It needs somebody to say, I'm gonna do something great with this, whether it's Rosay, whether it's sparkling, whether it's, you know, red and dry. And I'm gonna put it on the map. Like other people have done, like water messages with Timarasso. It really needs it. Yeah. And then finally, we did, from K, which was really beautiful, from Barbara and on in this case. Yeah, so those were the those were the three reds that we did. Before we Yeah. I have to say the Baba Ruce was my favorite out of it. They'd say it handled it really beautifully, and I had a chance to to go to Baba actually in Montarato, earlier this year. And and I didn't taste that while I was there. So I was really glad to kind of experience it. But I was also impressed with the Grignolito too. And I and I think, like, like you said, what you smell in the glass and what you see in the glass is not what you're going to get on the pallet, so to speak, in terms of there was just this extra punch, you know, or this, that the hook that they talk about that kinda just runs around the back of your pallet. It was just it was great. I really enjoyed it, especially chilled. You are you're talking about the Green Yulino. The Greenulino? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The Greenulino. So I thought it was a very fun way. Tell me about the the barbaresco and Barolo that you did include and kind of what made you I mean, there's a there's a vast array that you could have selected from. Indeed. So fundamentally, I didn't really choose the wines as for those particular wines. Bay fundamentally, what I said to the organizers was, if we're going to have a Bureau of Barbarresco, it has to be an MGA wine. Ah, that's right. We didn't talk about. Yeah. Minceyona Geografica, Adjunktiva, So the, you know, there's a subzone line within Barolla or Barbara. Mhmm. And really the point of that session was to spend ten minutes trying to explain the the system and the, and all your different labeling options within Barolla, which is become really complicated. Yes. Because you're gonna have these official sub zone wines. You're gonna have what that Piedmontis called Barolla Classic, which is not a sub zone, but simply, a wine made from a number of areas within Corona or within Nebraska. Or if you're Gaia or anybody else, you can, trademark a historical name or even a made up name, to be honest. Such as spares. Such as Borona spares, which does come from a single single sub zone in Barolo. And they couldn't have made that one famous, but they chose to do their own thing. Yeah. And that's their choice. Yeah. Exactly. So I spent, as you know, about ten minutes explaining all that. And also trying to give a bit of evaluation because fun I mean, you can make all sorts of there are all sorts of proper criticisms. Some of the MJs are way too big. Some of the MJs are big and extinguished, famous names because the the the subzones within the subzones as it were Yeah. Were actually more famous than the wider sub zone. Yeah. So those got lost unless you happen to be the cell owner, which you can in case you can use that name and put Vigna in front of it. Exactly. You know, so you can make lots of lots of criticisms, and we all enjoy doing that. But actually, I do think fundamentally it was a great move because it does mean that particularly actually when you're starting on the Broolla journey, and if you hadn't, you really should. In within Barona, you you have communal MGA. So you can have Barona Del Camuna di Lamora Correct. D Right. Castulina Falletto. Yeah. And that means you can taste side by side something from Lamora and something from Sarah Lunga Galba, and you will instantly understand why terroir in Barolo makes a difference. Mhmm. Because they are will be startlingly different in expression Right. Despite being made in the and the the best thing to do is to choose samples from the same winery, which I made in the same way. Yes. Where they're using? Yes. Yes. You eliminate the winemaker difference. Right. So, you know, a company like Sordo, Odero, many others will have multiple, MGA wines. Yeah. And you can and you can genuinely taste the difference Yeah. Between them. It's really a great way of of of learning about the roller box. Exactly. Exactly. And I meant to ask you actually during the seminar, but is that you made a chart? Yep. That's in the book. Right? The chart of the labeling. Uh-huh. It's not in the book. You need to reprint the book. I've I've I've only I've only invented the chart for the presentations. Make it as an insert. I can do that. Yeah. I because the only reason I would say is, like, this was the audience that needed to hear that because the question when any region and it's happening all over Italy decides to make these assertions and and new delineation, so to speak. Obviously, the question is, will it ultimately translate to the person drinking the wine. And the communicators of that are the sommeliers and the retailers and everybody else. And so if they understand it, hopefully, it trickles down. But I feel like it was a really good way to break it down. And, maybe when you update the book. Actually, this is a very exciting news, because Pemonte Land Duvauxine, which is the, promotional body for Pemonte as a whole, have decided to commission an Italian translation. Fantastic. Oh my book. Yes. So I'm not I have to say that is the ultimate order. It is. Yeah. As a foreigner. Yeah. Well, it's a complete guide. You know? And so I think we've got plenty of books on Barolo. Right? Like, we and and well done books, you know? Like and there's plenty of room for for more. But this is pretty detailed and lacking that particular chart, but it'll get there. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to I didn't know. I was like, I just assumed. I'm like, I need to go back to that. It's funny because as as a most of the time I spend teaching, but I, researching and writing, I wasn't you know, the university lecturer before that. And of course, it is that moment when you suddenly say, well, I've got I've got an hour. I can explain this complicated thing to people. Right. Yeah. I'll create a I'll create a diagram. It didn't occur for me to do it in the book. It's okay. A twin you know, what they say? Hinesight's twenty twenty. So there you go. Yeah. Yeah. Well, my last question to you is just what have your impressions been? This is your first okay. First US trip, first visit to Texas, but more importantly, what did you think about your first TexOM? It is one of the best organized conferences I have ever been to. I think it's I've seen a bit because I got here early, I've seen a bit of the behind the scenes organization, and I have to say the way that the volunteers who run it are briefed is just awesome. Yeah. The the the the level of enthusiasm, politeness, organization, all those things are exceptional. The people who you can go in here speak are amazing. I heard Lisa Granick on on the wines of Georgia, the world experts or the wines of Georgia. Yeah. I've just been to hear Sarah Jane Evans on the wines of Southern Spain, which is gonna be her next book. The the wall ground tastings have been fantastic. And I'm really looking forward to the ground tasting. Tonight, I know. Yeah. It's gonna be great. It's it's some great producers come into that. And, I'm so glad that I'm glad to hear you. I mean, they're almost in their twenty fifth year, Texom. And so they've definitely had time to to kind of, you know, hone in on the right way, but it is impressive to see how much they're able to bring to the center of the country. Right? We're not in New York. We're not in on the West Coast. We are in tech texas, and it's been a a big door opener for a lot of, markets within the center of the country. So it's been really cool. Well, I'm so glad you got to join us for this podcast. I'm more glad that you got to come to is because I'm definitely a proud texan for for better or worse. And I'm glad you got to enjoy Texom. Thank you so much. It's been absolute pleasure. Yeah. Absolutely. And I have to say the air conditioning is incredible. I'm We we definitely miss it when we travel outside of Texas. I'll tell you that, hand, hand, Italy. Thanks so much. Tell y'all. Listen to the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your podcast. We're on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, HimalIFM, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italianline podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, and publication costs. Until next time.