Ep. 2433 Jessica Dupuy interviews Julie Kuhlken of Pedernales Cellars | TEXSOM 2025
Episode 2433

Ep. 2433 Jessica Dupuy interviews Julie Kuhlken of Pedernales Cellars | TEXSOM 2025

TEXSOM 2025

August 9, 2025
81,82361111
Julie Kuhlken
Wine Industry

Episode Summary

Content Analysis Key Themes and Main Ideas 1. The historical development and current state of the Texas wine industry. 2. The role of Pedernales Cellars and Julie Kuhlken as pioneers in Texas winemaking. 3. The specialization in warm-weather and Mediterranean grape varieties in Texas, particularly Italian varietals. 4. Philosophical considerations of key wine terms: ""local,"" ""natural,"" and ""authentic."

About This Episode

Speaker 1 discusses their background in the wine industry, their interest in growing grapes, and their desire to continue learning and growing in the industry. They emphasize the importance of "monarch, natural, and authentic" in the industry and the need to be mindful of the three words "monarch, natural, and authentic." They also discuss the challenges of the industry and the importance of certification and organic grapes to create a "rocky industry." They express their interest in exploring the wines and their plans to go to a wine country in the summertime. Speaker 0 expresses their gratitude for their time and discusses their plans to go to a wine country in the summertime.

Transcript

We'll be talking more about it through the process of this particular series, because I think it's really fun to introduce people who aren't as familiar with Texas flying to some of the things that we've been doing. But for the rest of this, let's talk a little bit about kind of what brought you to sum. What is it that brought you to the point where you're now doing a seminar at Texom twenty twenty five? This was the first time I presented. I've been attending since twenty eleven. And when we first came in twenty eleven, I believe we were the only Texas winery there. You know, it still is. It's a professional sommelier conference, a wine professional conference, but it is an amazing educational opportunity. This amazing chance to get in front of a lot of very knowledgeable people about wine. And so, anyway, we came in twenty eleven. We've been doing the grand tasting. Since then. And then in twenty fourteen, we started coming with a group of other wineries that eventually formed a marketing group called Texas Fine wine. And then in more recent times, the Texas Department of Agriculture has also gotten very involved. And so we pour with them every year, and they showcase a broad range of Texas wineries, which is really nice. Ciao y'all. I'm Jessica Dupui, guest host for a special Texom series on the Italian wine podcast, covering the twenty twenty five Tech song Conference in Dallas, Texas. Join me in the heart of the Lone Star State as we dive into conversations with key speakers and attendees, exploring career paths, challenges, and the latest trends shaping the wine industry today. This series is proudly sponsored by the Texas Department of Agriculture' Uncourt Texas wines program, which celebrates Texas wine culture by promoting local wineries and grape growers, both in state and around the world, building a vibrant community around the Texas made wine. Be sure to subscribe and rate the show wherever you get your podcasts. And don't miss our Texas wine tidbit in every episode. A fun little fact, insight, or story that highlights the people and places behind this exciting wine scene. Okay. Well, Julie Colkin. Welcome to the Italian wine podcast for this special Texom series. I am super excited to have you. Not only because I think what we have to talk about is interesting, but because you and I've known each other for a long time, in working with the Texas wine industry. So I'm excited to be able to kind of showcase and spotlight some of the work you've been doing for Texas wine. So welcome. Glad to be here. Yeah. So, Julie, if you could just kind of, you know, open things up with everyone that's listening in and explain a little bit about your background and your role as co owner. So you're with Pardanellis sellers, which is a winery in the Stonewall area of Texas, hill country. And maybe talk about that and kind of, you know, how you got to that place, and then we'll add in a little bit about Texom. Yeah. You know, we're celebrating thirty years of being in the Texas wine industry. We planted Colton Vineures in nineteen ninety five. It was, I can say, primarily our parents project, But it meant that we got an early insight into growing grapes in Texas and the challenges, opportunities, etcetera. It was a decade later that we started Petronelle sellers, which is the winery associated with Colton Vineyards. And in the interim, usually, I don't talk about this. In the interim, I got my PhD, and I started teaching as a professor of philosophy, which we'll come back to you later. And, anyway, so as I said, we founded PC petronas sellers in two thousand and six. And because we had had ten years of growing, an important part of the DNA of petronas sellers is really trying to dig into what is the Texas terroir, what really grows well here, and what can we grow, but it isn't necessarily really what's gonna express itself best. And we specialize from the beginning with Timfernio and Vionier. But over time, as I'll talk about later, we have branched out into other varieties, in a significant way. But it was an important part of our our development that we were really focused on, you know, growing grapes is the basis of making fine wine in Texas. In terms of my role, I have, obviously, picked grapes, planted grapes, watered grapes, But fundamentally and I've done, you know, seller ret things in the cellar, but fundamentally, my role has always been in the front of the house. Basically, over a decade, I've overseen all of the front of the house from the DTC or direct to consumer operations to the marketing to the accounting and all the administration. And so it's in broad range of what goes on in the wine industry. Which is great. And I think that, like, particularly the Perdinalis seller story is unique just because you'll have been at it for quite a while now and have seen such an evolution and change in the industry. And since we're on it, just before we get anywhere, any deeper into techsom stuff, like, I'd love to know just kind of what your thoughts are. Like, what have you seen in the industry or some of the changes that have been positive, maybe in a short Short for it. Yeah. I mean, I think the most important thing is the realization of what grows well in Texas. It doesn't mean that people don't continue to grow the international varieties which is where a lot of people get started, but I think, you know, people have realized that, you know, warm weather grapes are more well suited to Texas, but then also been willing to accept the diversity of that, that we grow a lot of grapes that no one's ever heard of. And that's fine. Right? That's just gonna be part of what it means to grow wine in Texas. And we have new producers, and, you know, their first wine is an Aglianico, right, which is not a household name. And that really shows the way in which we've evolved to embracing really what we could do here well. Yeah. No. I think that's great. And, we'll be talking more about it through the process of this particular series because I think it's really fun to introduce people who aren't as familiar with Texas Line, to some of the things that we've been doing. But for the rest of this, let's talk a little bit about kind of what brought you to Texum. What is it that brought to the point where you're now doing a seminar at Texom twenty twenty five. Have you been involved with the conference before? Like, how did you become involved? This was the first time I presented. Okay. I've been attending since twenty eleven. So I guess the first TexO must have been in two thousand and five because they're celebrating twenty years. So I missed those first six years, but I've been coming regularly ever since. And when we first came in twenty eleven, I believe we were the only Texas winery there. It was really at that time I mean, you know, it still is. It's a professional Sommelier conference, a wine professional conference, but it is, you know, it's an amazing educational opportunity. It's an amazing chance to get in front of a lot of very knowledgeable people about wine, And so, anyway, we came in twenty eleven. We've been doing the Grand Tasting since then. And then in twenty fourteen, we started coming with a group of other wineries that eventually formed a marketing group called Texas Fine wine. And we've been coming ever since with them since we'll be the eleventh year we've come with them. And then in more recent times, the Texas Department of Agriculture, it's also gotten very involved. And they had done some lunches back in the day, but they they really doubled down, I would say, I think it was twenty twenty two, but in the last three or so years. And so we pour with them every year, and they showcase a broad range of Texas wineries, which is really nice. That's people can come to there's Texas and has these expo sessions where there's a lot of wine being poured and every at every single one of them, there's Texas winery is pouring wine at this point, which is nice, which wasn't the case fifteen years ago. Yeah. It says a lot about one the conference kind of recognizing what's happening in Texas wine, but then also the confidence the conference has and what Texas wine has offer. So it's it's a good it's been a good evolution, I think. Well, let's talk about the topic that you're tackling. Right now, kind of on the conference schedule, it says, you know, philosophy and wine with Julie Colkin. When I saw that, I was like, whoa, this could be really broad but I know there's obviously you and James have some thoughts on it and and kind of what you guys talked about in putting this together. So I wonder if you could just kinda give us a glimpse into how you've approached this and and what people can expect to get out of this. One thing to talk about is what is philosophy? A lot of people never take a philosophy course. It just depends on your university, whether it's required somehow. One of the things that philosophy is not the most disciplines that we're aware of like history or particular scientific disciplines, biology and chemistry, they are what you might call progressive, meaning that over time more is known. And so you would never go back to something that was written a hundred years ago and say, well, that's that captures all the truths. I mean, you would never want to be treated for cancer for what they knew about cancer a hundred years ago. Right? You know, you want the latest research on cancer. Philosophy is very, very different. Philosophy is not progressive, it's universalistic. It's looking for the logic of how language can be used, how arguments can be made, and logic itself can be used, and elements of human nature. And those things don't really change. What we found it find interesting about them do change. So, obviously, for philosophy does change in that sense, but you can go back to Aristotle, who is an ancient Greek philosopher, and you can still find insights in what he has to say. You would never find any insights in Greek science of the time because you would be like, oh, how funny because they had no idea. Right? But you can find something usually at philosophy. So, yes, it creates a very broad range. What got this started was that James Tidwell, who Master Smolier, who runs Tech song, we invited him to our symposium, the Texas Hill Country White Association. Basically, just sort of kinda do state of the Texas wine industry from his perspective, being, you know, very high level, so I'm very connected to the global wine world. And he, you know, he did not hold back any punches. And, you know, one of the things he brought up was the notion of, like, we always say, well, Texas should be drinking more Texas wine. And he's like, why? Right? Which is a very good philosophical question. Right? Like, well, what is your value proposition there? And that's really sort of the core of what I'm doing is responding initially to that. And then I've added on other areas that I think are terms that we use very often in the wine world, one being natural, the absolutely indefinable term, and yet we It's an inescapable but indefinable term. So I talk a lot about natural and how how to think about it in such a way that it's actually very divisive to people when you use that term. And then authentic, which is another term that we use very often, almost always in a positive sense, right? But what is that really to limit and what does that exclude, if you will? So that's the that's the organization. If I could have had my brothers, I would have had it say, you know, wine and philosophy, dot dot. Local, natural, authentic because that at least narrows it down to something like, oh, I know those terms, though. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway. Yeah. No. That makes sense. But I think, you know, to me, I like the broadness of what it is because it it does kind of create a little bit of an entry. It gets a little bit provocative, you know. And I think that hopefully, I'm assuming, you know, you'll be speaking a lot, but then also there will be a little bit of discussion, or how do you want to invite some of that? I want people because, like, in particular, and that little longer section is natural. Though, I mean, even the local option, right? There's, you know, one of the things that I don't know if we'll get to, but they're really, you know, there's a lot of place value in the wine world, like, all the appalachians all over the world or, you know, how whatever the call were, wherever they are, if you do any wine study, you just spend your time learning one after another, after another. But, you know, the reality is, is that the best way to organize you know, it is always the most local option, the most interesting. I mean, one of the more successful wines of the, I would say, the twenty first century has been prossecco, which, yes, it comes from Italy, but honestly speaking, it's a wine style. It's not really a specific place. And and from a consumer point of view, that's very accessible in a way of like, oh, where exactly, you know, is polio and, you know, Fuehli? I have no idea. So Yeah. Yeah. I see what you mean. And, you know, and it kind of gives people a different range of perspectives to be able to approach wine. So I I like it. I'm excited for this particular seminar. So from your perspective, what's kind of the key message or insight that you hope people will take away from this conversation, you know, as you're kind of preparing for it. Well, I want I really am asking people only to think about these three terms, right? You know, local, natural, and authentic, and really stop and think about how they're using them and really how they're using them as valuable positions. But the most one of the more interesting ones is natural is that we almost always use it in the modern world at least in a positive way. If something's more natural, it's just better. And yet, there's lots of things about natural things you don't like. Right? Like, natural disasters, there's not something anybody wants. Right? And so the reality is first, just why is natural wine so divisive among, you know, both producers and consumers? But then also, like, what is it? Do you wanna draw out of it as a wine professional. When you're talking to the consumer, what do you think they should be taking from? And I've been that one particular I've been to I wasn't a wine bar in Manchester. There was a natural wine bar, and I asked, well, what is natural about the wine? She had no idea. I was like Nice. Right. You're not you're gonna have a part time guiding me through your selection if you have no if you will if you will walking, like, definition that you're you're going with. Yeah. Yeah. Put you onto a higher, yeah, defining natural because spoilage is also natural. Right? Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. There's there's all kinds of things you don't want that are perfectly natural. So I think another one is claims of authenticity. You know, what is that really key into, and, you know, there's only certain things that actually guarantee authenticity, but that actually excludes other ways of making wine and other things that are also valuable in wine. So it's like if you want the if you want the authentic, you're, again, probably playing a lot into that place value version of what white could be. So, obviously, just mark a conversation and, hopefully, conversations that continue outside the room. So, that is key takeaways to me. Okay. Excellent. You know, to move away a little bit from tech you're a person who I've always admired in the Texas wine industry because not only do you guys, you and your brother who also is a co owner and for Nellus sellers. You guys are so well traveled and so well. I hate to say it like well educated isn't just because you have a PhD, but you you guys are you dig deep into whatever it is that how you approach wine and and many other aspects of life. And so I know that you're always aware of the things that are going on in the wine world and, obviously, the world beyond that So I'm just curious kind of if you were to look at the past year from your perspective, what are some of the big shifts that you're seeing or challenges that are facing the wine world today? And how does this kind of, you know, influence you know, it trickling down to Texas wine and even to Pertenile sellers. I know that's a big question, but An observation I think I've that really sunk in this year was that I went to New Zealand for the first time and did Okay. Tour of the country and visit a a number of different wine regions. And I mean, it's gorgeous country on top of that, of course. One of the things that really struck me, and I'm I'm sort of vaguely aware of this is their timeline, right, how they developed. Right? And if you really look at it, and now I I mean, they were making wine before this, mostly around the Auckland area and the the North Island. But the genesis of Marlboro, which is the juggernaut of New Zealand as an industry, really is goes back to the nineteen seventies. Right? It's around, I think, seventy three or so is when the Montana wine company starting, which, of course, it's crazy name to Americans is like Montana, which if it doesn't have to do with Montana, I don't know. It just happens to to be the same name. But it is it is the nineteen seventies. And so you have this, like, investigation of what we can do while, you know, in terms of growing grapes and, you know, really all experimentation. And then in the eighties, it kinda consolidates in the nineties. It really takes off, and it's just been growth, growth, growth, growth in the in twenty first century. And That is a timeline for a lot of places in the world. Right? That it's really in the nineteen seventies. You have this first investigation and first real serious investment, like, you know, we're gonna make an industry here, and it's not just like a mom or a cop thing. And it matches Texas Texas. It's really in in Texas's case, it was very much bookended by the problems of Prohibition having really made there being an industry impossible, the long tail of Prohibition, you could say. And then The eighties are sort of a down period for Texas relatively speaking for a lot of economic reasons. And then the nineties, you know, that's when our parents planted. You have people coming into the industry. It starts growing. And then in the knots in the knots, you see the, like, it just starts growing, right? Because people are like, oh, I know what we're doing, and we can just go forward. And what is created is a situation where there's an enormous amount of choice. Right? It's just phenomenal amount of choice, but also a phenomenal amount of complexity. Yeah. And, you know, very often people complain about the younger generation, which just basically means younger than me as far as I can tell right now, because I'm Genex, so younger than me, that they are not interested in wine, but I'm like, yes, maybe not they're young, but the thing is they're willing to embrace complexity, which the, if you will, baby boomer generation, was less interested in doing. They really had their, you know, their lanes, most of the international varieties, and they really stuck with them, whereas the younger generation is willing to embrace all this complexity, but you gotta offer them all those appelations. Like, I mean, I'm doing the diploma in the w set, you know. It's the number of appelations just boggles my mind when it's all said and done. So for someone injuring the wine world, I mean, you you gotta start somewhere. And so I think other entry points, like, and that's, again, the local, natural authentic. These are other entry points in some ways. Right? Right. So, you know, one of the things that it's boiled down for us at Petternales is we are in reporting it at Texon. We have a our first wine made with organic grapes. Yes. Is this the rosé? The rosé. Yeah. Yes. Okay. Tell me about this. The reason that it's a rosé is that twenty twenty four is the first year of the three years of certification had lapsed, and of course it's too early to release a red. So the first thing we can release is a Rosay. And so it's fifty percent Gernache, fifty cent more veg comes from desert Willow, which is the vineyard that's transitioned organic. His fruit is always gorgeous. I mean, bravo loves fruit. It's just you come in, you're like, oh, you know. So it's really healthy fruit. And but it was, you know, organic is not an obvious choice for Texas in many ways, but it is a recognition that this is something that people will people look for. There's no question this is very, very healthy grape growing. And so it's just an a way of responding to I don't care if it's less about, oh, it's a Rosay, or it's more bad, or it's more nosh. None of those things are really as important as, like, know it's how they were produced or how they were grown. And then it actually if you're making wine with organic grapes, there's a whole certification process for the winery and cellar itself. So all kinds of things we had to do differently as a seller and obviously keep them completely separate from the other grapes. And wine in order for, you know, it to be truly certified. So, yeah, we're very excited to pour it. Happens to be that our current winemaker Tay Smith, who is from South Africa. He was once nominated as the Rosay winemaker of the year in South Africa. So sort of lucky to have him on board just as we're doing this wine because he's not particularly attuned to Jose, which is its own, you know, its own thing to to make Rose. Well, and first of all, also, lovely that you're making a Rose with the specific intention of making Rosay, right, instead of as an afterthought. So you know that there's some intention and deliberate choices being made with that particular wine, but I just wanna back up a little bit. Is this vineyard in the high plains or in the hill country? Of It could be I know there will be organic vineyards. There's transition in the hill country. I would say the hill country is even more challenging than the high plains, but the disease pressure in the hill country is much higher. And then When we do get rain, we don't get the kind of winds and breezes they do in the high plains to dry it out. So just for listeners, Superfest crash course, Texas being larger than the entire country of France. Right? But in the far far northern part of Texas is where more than two thirds of our grapes are grown. And what's unique about it is it has a very unique elevation based on a particular geologic table that it sits on, and that table also allows for so it allows for diurnal shift but the region itself is extremely dry, and we have very low disease pressure, which is why I was asking, does seem that if anything was gonna go organic in Texas, it would be slightly easier to do it there than in the hill country where which is another big deal, wine region for us, but it is more humid, it is hot, it is extremely prone to Pierce's disease, and all sorts of, you know, mildews and things like that. So it's difficult to do organic because the spraying that has to happen to maintain a healthy or whatever you wanna call. You know, it it's more difficult. So I just wanted to bring context to that as we talk because I I think it's an interesting part for people who are making wines in Italy because Italy's a very big country too, and it's not that they haven't faced these same problems in different parts of the country as well. Well, okay. So let me ask you that. Since we're on Texasvine a little bit, is there anything you'd like to share about the wines of Texas in general, you know, are there Italian grapes or styles that inspire your approach or maybe that you feel have thrived particularly well in Texas just to keep that, you know, Italian connection or anything else about Texas mind that you would wanna make sure people walk away from or walk away with from this conversation. The short answer is the diversity of it and the range of what's possible here. As I said, we started out, you know, having our parents having planned a cabinet seventy seven year old were low, and we decided we're not doing that anymore, and we moved to the temporaryo. We do source our VIA from the high plains because of the diurnal. So our white But then we very quickly branched to Roan varieties and Portuguese varieties. And eventually, it came into a program that we work with Italian varieties. And really, so if you look at that progression, you're kinda like, okay, let's just go around the Mediterranean picking up grapes. And that's really what Texas is, but, I mean, the Mediterranean's a big place. Right? And, you know, Italian varieties, we grow, Toualdigo, which I think most people would find a surprise that that does well in Texas. It actually does extremely well. And then we do San Giovanni. We've struggled with finding the right clone. Please don't ask me which one were we using right now. Okay. But anyway, San Giovanni. We grow both of those. We work with multiplication Dolcado, Alianico, and then, Vermentino on the white side. And so all of those Italian varieties you'll find in wine programs across a number of producers. And so if, you know, if that's your interest, which of course is another cross section. You could just say, I'm just going for Italian varieties, right, which would never be a bad choice. That's another way of if you will introducing yourself to Texas wine is just to look for those particular varieties. So Yeah. Well, and I'm curious too because you are so well traveled. In fact, I think you just got back from a trip too. Were you in Croatia, Slovenia? Where were you? What is your Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it was based in Croatia. I actually went to Montenegro as well. Okay, man. Okay. Wonderful. But I'm sure you've been to Italy and I'm just curious kind of, you know, what about some of, you know, the Italian wine culture, you know, that resonates with you in terms of how you approach a wine in Texas or what you feel kind of connects to the Texas culture that we have. Again, being Genex, I've I did grow up with the Italian with the international varieties. And I have to say that my first merlot was the first great variety I could recognize by just picking up a glass and taking a sip, and I really struggled actually with Italian didn't have a lot of it until probably into my twenties. And then I sort of had an aha moment. I realized, oh, this is food. Right? You're looking at this completely wrong. This has herbal notes and savory notes, and it it it is food and it's supposed to go with food. It's not a fruit bomb. It's not an alcohol bomb. None of those things are aims. And that for me was really sort of, like, the insight into what makes Italian. It's one of the countries you can sort of recognize because you're kind of sitting there and you're like, Yeah. I really want some veal with some mushrooms. Yeah. Okay. Italians are really high probability at this point. And I think you learn from that because it's also partially because of our climate, We can't let grapes just sit out and develop, you know, fifteen percent alcohol. We need to pick them for the acidity in addition to the ripeness. And so the model of Italian winemaking is actually very useful because, yes, you want fruit, and there's no question that, you know, we are a new world wine region, and so you have that. But you also want those savory qualities. You want the finish to be one of the most important aspects of the wine, because that's really what makes it go well with food. Is that it lingers and you, you know, you could just share it with the food back and forth. And so, yeah, for me, if I I was on a desert island and I could only have one wine country, it would be Italian wine, honestly speaking. I love it. Okay. So if you could actually go on, like, an adventure to Italy, you know, financial is not a problem. Anything you want, you know, where would you wanna go and what specific wine? It doesn't have to be a producer, but what wine would you wanna be drinking in Italy right now? I have visited I mean, I've been to Pete Mountain Tuscany, and I've been to Mount Valtore and even a brussel and up in, Alto adige. So, you know, thinking about that, like, you know, if I was planning a trip, I realized where I wanna go is the islands. Right? I have not been to either Sicily or Sardinia And, you know, you kinda go back and forth. I mean, obviously, Sicily is really popular right now. Yeah. But I am a complete and total pushover for, Bernache, so Canada. And so I think I'm going for Sardinia. I've also been told by multiple people that it's absolutely breathtakingly gorgeous in Sardinia, so that is also a selling point. So, yes, and I would have some kinda now from Sardinia and be hanging out. Especially since we're in summertime too. That sounds pretty great to be coastal somewhere enjoying some beautiful views. Well, Julie, I'm so grateful for your time in speaking with us a little bit about philosophy, wine, Texas wine, If people want to follow along about what's going on with Purnellus sellers and after Texom, where can people tune in, whether it's Instagram or website, you know, where can people find you? Well, we're relatively straightforward as long as you can spell Peturnalia sellers, which is not always the thing. But, yeah, all of our handles are two Peturnalia sellers. And if you say that phonetically, you can spell it phonetically. Yeah. At Peturnalia sellers, we're on Facebook, Obviously, we have a website. Yes. We're in Instagram. Instagram. Yeah. It's so funny that you I'm so glad you mentioned that actually because being a longtime Texan, I know you are too. Like, we tend to say some words that aren't necessarily in the same way that they are listed, which, hey, if you're an Elto AdiJ or you're in all parts, everybody's got a way that they say a word that doesn't at all sound like what it looks like. Right? So I don't know about you, but I grew up saying Purdanalis, which is so text. I'm like, it's the Pardon Alice River, but, no, it's Petternales is how it's spelled, and we've just done a great job of butchering it. I hope I haven't done that too much on this because I forget myself when I'm speaking to another text. The long term, if you would reach of, LBJ is It's there. It's very real. Well, thank you so much. I look forward to seeing you at TexOM, if not before, and I hope you have a good rest of the summer. Good. You too. Thanks, Black. Here's another Texas wine tidbit for you. Did you know that Texas helped save Europe's vineyards? In the late eighteen hundreds, Veloxera had already swept through Europe, leaving devastation in its wake. Vineyards in Bordeaux, burgundy, even Champagne were dying, and early efforts to replant with American rootstocks were failing. The vines may have resisted the pests, but they couldn't survive France's chalky limestone rich soils. Desperate for a solution, French Viticulturist, Pierre Viola, was sent to the United States in search of a better match. His journey eventually led him to Denison, Texas, and a horticulturist named Thomas Volney Munson, a man who had spent years studying and cataloging the native grape species of Texas. Munson understood Texas soils, particularly the limestone laced terrain of the hill country and knew just where to look. Together, he and Viola identified Vittis Burlandieri, a wild Texas vine that not only resisted Voloxera, but thrived in calcium rich soils, nearly identical to those in Southern France. Thousands of cuttings were shipped overseas. Well, Vivis Berlin was tricky to root on its own, it became the genetic cornerstone for hybrid rootstocks like forty one B and one ten R, which would go on to replant the vineyards of Bordeaux, burgundy, Champagne, cognac, and later throughout all parts of Europe. Those root stocks are still in use throughout Europe today, including in parts of Italy, where drought tolerant and limestone loving vines are essential to thriving in a warming climate. So the next time you enjoy a glass of Italian wine, from Barolo to Bernelo. Remember, without the unlikely partnership between a French scientist and a Texas grape man, those vines might not be standing today. If your wine's growing on Venice Berlin, you'd best thank your lucky stars. For Texas. This series is proudly sponsored by the Texas Department of Agriculture' Uncourt Texas wines program, which celebrates Texas wine culture by promoting local wineries and grape growers. Both in state and around the world, building a vibrant community around the Texas made wine. Be sure to subscribe and rate the show wherever you get your podcast and don't miss our Texas wine tidbit in every episode. A fun little fact, insight or story that highlights the people and places behind this exciting wine scene.