Ep. 1055 Michelle Brampton | Voices With Cynthia Chaplin

Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. This episode has been brought to you by the wine to wine business forum twenty twenty two. This year, we'll mark the ninth edition of the forum to be held on November seventh and eighth of twenty twenty two. In Verona Italy, this year will be an explosively in person edition. The main theme of the event will be all around wine communication. And tickets are on sale now. The second early bird discount will be available until September eighteenth. For more information, please visit us at wine to wine dot net. Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. I'm Cynthia Chaplin, and this is voices. Every Wednesday, I will be sharing conversations with international wine industry professionals discussing issues in diversity, equity, and inclusion through their personal experiences, working in the field of wine. If you enjoy the show, please subscribe and rate our show wherever you get your pods. Hello, and welcome to voices. This is Cynthia Chaplin, and today I am so pleased to welcome Michelle Brampton to the show. In February this year, Michelle joined the Wine Spirit Education Trust, which is WSET to all of us in the know, and she took over as the new CEO after Ian Harris who retired, with twenty years under his belt. So congratulations, Michelle, and thank you for joining us today. Oh, thanks so much for having me, Cynthia. It's great to be here and talk to you. Well, it's a huge pleasure for me. I'm I'm a WS CT educator, as you know, and a fan of the program. And I was really, really thrilled when you were appointed as the first female CEO in the fifty three year history of the organization. I know Janis Robinson was honorary president for a while a couple of years back, but this is the first time a woman is running WSTT. I know what it means to me, but what does that mean to you in terms of sort of female leadership roles in the wine sector and, you know, moving women into positions of authority in in our industry? Thanks. It's it's a great question. I mean, I think in the industry, we are seeing an increasing number of women taking roles across the sector, which is fabulous to see, but I think we all know we've we've still got some way to go, which is true of everywhere. So I think, you know, in this role in particular, it's it's great to see a woman come into it because it's such a visible role in the industry. You know, it it's very connected, and it can be as and we'll come on to probably talk about this about how the WSET can can be very central, can be a beacon, can be a role model in the industry. So I think, you know, that visibility is what's really important because, and it was true in my previous role as well because in all of these things, if you can see yourself represented somewhere, then it gives you a guide and it gives you the confidence that you can go and do things because you can see see other women doing it. So so I think it's really important and it's really exciting. And I I I think for the WSE team in particular, you know, what's quite usual is that women create different cultures and do different things with organizations. And that's what I'm looking forward to doing is, moving that culture forward a bit and supporting the women in it and other minorities. So to create that in inclusive environment, So I think it's really important. And I think it can help drive change by doing those kind of things more broadly, both with the employees in the organization, and then with the influence that it can have beyond there as well. I entirely agree. I think that's great. And and I know that you will be a great champion for women coming into our industry. You mentioned your your previous life, which was at Treasury wine estates for nineteen years. So no no short tenure there. And you finished up there as managing director of Europe, Middle East, and Africa. So, again, not not a teeny tiny little desk job there. What what inspired your move from from Treasury into the education side of the business? Sort of, what kind of skills and experiences do you think you gained a treasury that you're gonna bring to your new position and and adapt to WSTT? While I was looking for, I had a a feeling that I had another chapter and something different to do. And I had undertaken some coaching training, and I'm I'm really interested in the impact of leadership and coaching. So I was looking for something that was gonna help and support people like coaching does that could help make a difference in people's lives. And of course, education does that. Education is hugely empowering. What whatever you learn about, you know, it develops your life, and you can take it in different directions by doing it. So so I was looking for something that would make a difference to people. And I was looking for something that I could make a difference to the organization itself. So we we touched on previously culture at the WSTT, and that is something that I am really passionate about. And so in looking for a role that I could influence the culture. I was looking for a for a CEO role that meant I could I could own it and develop that culture the way that I wanted to help see people thrive within the organization, but then I also wanted an organization that did good and reached beyond just the employees with it, the employees within it. So that's what was really appealing to me about the WSTT is the opportunity to evolve it internally as well as have the impact externally as well. So it was it was quite strange, really, because that's what I had started to to put out there as what I was thinking, as I was planning to leave treasury. And the WSTT came up really very, very quickly. So it was a bit of a star of the line moment. And of course, it has the bonus of being in an industry that I love having been, as you said at Treasury for nearly twenty years and really loved the mine industry. And actually, so that nice to be touch on the spirits industry as well is like an evolution of that. So, yeah, I consider myself extremely lucky to have found myself in this position and I'm really proud to lead such a a great organization, but those are the kind of boxes that that that it really ticked for me in a big way. That's so interesting. I mean, I I know, you know, as I said before, you took over from Ian who who led the w set for twenty years. How how is the culture there? Have you been welcomed or has there been resistance to having a woman at the helm? You know, Ian did a fantastic job and cued us to him. You know, enrollments went from, you know, ten thousand sort of mostly, you know, UK students in two thousand and two. Up to a hundred and eight thousand students, most of them coming from outside the UK. And it's a pretty tough act to follow. And I'm just wondering, how your first few months there have been and what the culture was like, what you've got there? Did people resist you? Has it been an easy onboarding or or a little bit more fraud than you imagine. No. It's it's not been fraud. The people at the WSTT are amazing. They're some of the friendliest people, I've ever met, and I loved, the people at Treasury Wine associates. There's great people there as well. So obviously, you don't know until you get there what kind of people you're gonna meet, but people have been so friendly and welcoming and open that they may be onboarding really easy for me, actually. And for the first six or seven weeks, Ian was there, whilst I was there. So I used that time to talk to lots and lots of people. So I think I probably had about eighty conversations with people across the organization. In talking about what are the challenges? What are the opportunities? What would you change? What do you think we're doing about it? So by the time that Iain came to go, I had a really strong sense of what their priorities were, within the organization. So that was a really nice opportunity for onboarding to get to know people and to get to know the organization. And, yeah, Ian has done an amazing job of growing the brand globally, and the impact on all those students that, you know, is is our purpose in doing it. So people obviously are very, very fond of Ian, and in many ways sad to see him go. I think there is a overall sense though that it's ready for its next chapter. You know, it's no secret that our service levels had dropped over the last few years that COVID was particularly hard for us in terms of managing all of the exams processing. And that's really the number one priority as we go forward to look at that. So I think as much as the team like and respect to Ian, there's a new chapter for the WSET, which is about, given that growth that we've seen, given the challenge that we've seen through COVID. And the way people have evolved the way they want to learn and the way they want to access information. You know, there's a big opportunity for us to modernize and digitalize a lot of the things that we do. And so I think the team are really ready to embrace that change, and drive it forward. And and that's some of the work we've started, in the last ten weeks since since I've taken over. So, yeah, no. I wouldn't say any resistance, you know, there's a lot of fondness and a lot of appreciation for what Ian did, but ready for the next chapter is is how we're looking That's so good to know. And I'm I'm really pleased to hear that because as I said, I'm a fan of the organization myself and have taken part in many many different levels. So it's exciting to hear that, you know, issues are gonna be addressed under under your new tenure, and that people are excited for that to happen. Yes. Very much. So it's been hard for the team. Yeah. Sure. It has. And we've seen it here, where I work here in Verona for VINitally International, we have a WSTT app, Italian Wine Academy. And we've seen a slowing of of the exam scores being returned and how frustrated students get. So and and educators, we can't frustrate it too on behalf of our students. So it's good to know that that's you know, on the table as something that's gonna get addressed and changed and hopefully new systems, faster systems coming into place less dependent on, you know, human problems like being trapped in your house for two years. Yeah. Exactly. That is absolutely our number one priority. And we we've got a program of work over the next eighteen months to address that from a systems and processes perspective. But, yeah, it's been it has been really tough on the team because none of them wants students or APPs feeling like that either. You know, so, they're they're kind of, a bit bruised from that the last couple of years. So really ready to help everybody feel better about the service that they offer and the way that we do it. That is so exciting. I'm I'm really pleased to hear that. Especially because I know that you, you know, really believe in education, and you've said you think it's a true enabler for success for both individuals and for businesses. And I'm just wondering how you're going to energize this message and get it across to businesses who should be hiring and should be investing in professional development, as well as impressing it upon, you know, young people or new people just starting out in wine. You know, it's it's not cheap. Wine education is expensive. We all know that. And I'm just wondering how you're gonna get the message out to to justify this investment and support the cost across our sector. You know, what are your plans? What are your thoughts on this? Italian wine podcast. If you think you love wine as much as we do, then give us a like and a follow anywhere you get your pods. Yeah. So we've been doing some work in the last ten weeks, really getting clear as as leadership team inside the organization around what our purpose is around empowering people and inspiring people with the inspiring learning experiences that we offer. And so internally, we're energizing people through the impact that we can have and the different that we can make. And then we're we're flowing that into the strategic planning that we're doing. So there's lots of energy building in the organization around the possibilities of new things that we could do. And of course, in the meantime, while we build all of that great stuff in, but we're energizing the, organization and investing in those things to make it easier both for the employees and for our partners at the APPs and a better experience for our students. But we'll continue to obviously, we have the business development and marketing teams who are there to spread the word and work with both APPs and use the digital platforms that we've developed and attend events to get the word out there. We'll also be running, a virtual open day in the London school for everybody to be able to come and see what's what's going on, at the school and what kind of courses we offer. And then more broadly in the industry, we're doing a lot of partnership work. And one of the things I'm really keen to do is one of our imperatives as we're calling them is to build a really, meaningful ESG, environmental, social, and governance agenda. And we already do lots of partnership work either with our corporate patrons or with our APPs and it's really focused around, equity, diversity and inclusion actually. So touching on our original point about an increased number of women in senior roles, but also other minorities having increased representation in the trade. So there are a number of things that we do already. We work with people, charities like the develop fund, which is part of the drinks trust in the UK that has hardship fund and hospitality organizations. So through them, we are providing, bursaries or access to, as you say, it is expensive to make, training more affordable for people, depending on their situation personally. So there's quite a lot that's UK focused there, but then in addition, for example, in Australia, we are working with the National Indigenous Colony Institute, and we work with a couple of our providers in South Africa to create opportunities for disadvantaged communities. So that it feels like coming into the organization, there's a lot of good stuff already happening to support people if it's unaffordable. Many employers do support people. They understand the value created in that education within their companies. And so then the extension of where we can support financially people to be able to do it is something that's already happening, but I'm keen to make it a bit more strategic with all the partners that we work through, whether they're our corporate patrons or our APP, because I think everybody does understand that diversity, particularly in our industry, is an area where we can help, and and grow, representation from all sorts of backgrounds. And I think some of the partnerships that we're doing with hospitality, where you see, you know, very great diversity of people is another place that we can help people get on the jobs ladder, improve their career. So so there's lots to do to get the message out there that the value, yes, it's not it's not cheap, but there are options, if people can't afford it to work with us because we're here to try and have a positive impact and empower people. And, you know, we're open to ideas that kind of fit that strategic agenda that we're looking at around growing diversity in the trade. That's that's so good. That's great to hear. I'm wondering if there's any sort of outreach going to, universities and colleges, not only in the UK, but, you know, around the world or at least in Europe. We've got a lot of universities now that are doing, wine and hospitality programs culinary programs as you mentioned, that where wine plays a part. And I'm wondering if if WSight is doing any outreach to those sorts of programs globally through a college or through a university, I think a lot of young people don't really understand that wine can be a career that it can be a road to to bigger and better things and lots of opportunity, rather than just something one does in a bar on a Friday night. Yeah. And I think getting that message out to young people is is so important. Do you partner with with universities or colleges in that kind of a way? In isolated cases, yes, but not on a global level. And it's something that is interesting. So I play I paid a visit to a a college that does do, degrees and masters in the UK. And we're starting in conversation with them about how their local representation and our global visibility could help, in the wine trade in particular, and how you move into things like, you know, people do want to move all over the world and experience wine making in Australia or wine making in Chile. And so it's not something we're doing globally, but it's something that would definitely be on the radar further down the line. Because, you can see in these conversations that the WSTT qualifications are so well regarded. And many of our APPs add stuff onto them to bring them to life for students, and and that would be an opportunity for for universities as well. But I agree with you. I remember when I first, got into the wine industry, having no idea, really, that it was gonna be a a great career, though, where you can see the world and travel and meet lots of interesting people. And I think there's there's obviously pockets of that around the world, but, making that more known as different parts of the world open up and become more important in the wine trade, is definitely something we could look at further down the line. Absolutely. Absolutely. I yeah. I just think, getting that that message to people when they're when they're young and especially so many of our young people now, you know, who really don't have a a lot of choice during their late high school or early university years in terms of employment and they find themselves in hospitality, waitressing, or whatever. I think it is important to let them know that there is, you know, a properly professional path, into wine that that can be academic and interest and really open doors for them in in different ways. So I think WSet is great at doing that, and I'd love to see that message get out there more to to younger students. I think we've got got that moment in time now with so many people. As you said, want to travel, hopefully, we'll be able to travel a bit better than we can at the moment. But, and also universities taking on board these, you know, kind of alternative programs of study that are still degree courses. So adding w set to that, I think is is a great way to promote not only what you do, but also the industry as a whole. Yeah. Well, you've you've also been described yourself as a visionary and impactful and curious leader, and you deliver results by driving and sustaining a healthy organizational culture. I love all of these things. Collaboration and inclusiveness are non negotiable and integrity and striving to do the best possible work. I I wanna know what you're hoping to see happen on these fronts in the next couple of years. As, you know, we've we've said, you've only been there for ten minutes. So you I'm sure you have, a bucket list of goals and strategies. Where are you hoping to sort of guide the ship over the next couple of years? Coming. You're right. There's so much. There's so much opportunity, and it's such an exciting time for the WSTT. You know, when I talk about that next chapter in digital and what that can bring, there there is so many things, and with the leadership team here as we start to talk about what our priorities are and what we want to do. There really is a, okay, this is great. How how do we focus and prioritize here? Because, there's so much that we could do that we could, yeah, wear ourselves out trying to do it. But As I touched on before, like, the not absolute number one priority is to get that service back up, and that's really fixing the foundations of the organization. And so that is investment in IT and processes and and the the right people with the right capabilities to to get that where we need it to be. But alongside that, we will also be looking at products and product categories, so potentially moving into other product categories or filling some of the the pockets that we have in the hierarchy of programs that we have at the moment. And then I see alongside that. So as we shore up the foundations, we start to really digitalize the offering that we have both in the education and the exam side of it. And then the expansion beyond that starts to look at what other product categories could we be in and how we enhance the learning experiences within that. And also with that, I think we probably need some kind of evolution of the brand as we broaden and we make it more contemporary, so that we can access some of those areas that we want to build in. And then I think the the key thing is really that internal and external culture and good work that we do. So internally, we've touched on on that cultural piece, and it is really important to me that people can come to work every day, be themselves, and do their best work and feel like they belong there. I'm really passionate about inclusivity and people feeling like they belong there. And I think we all know that when you feel like you're very safe somewhere and you belong there, you are your most creative, you are your most productive, and you can do your best work, and that's how I want people to come to work and feel at the WSTT. And then to extend that externally in in the good work that we do on with an EDNI agenda, and a bigger framework with our corporate partners and our APPs and, and other programs that we can help support that agenda within the wider trade. And then beyond that, I think I think back to that very original point, I think the WSTT because it's so central to the trade can be a real role model or a beacon in some of the some of the key challenges that businesses are facing. So whether that's sustainability or diversity and inclusion, there are lots of things that we could role model as an organization. And start to be a bit of a a guiding light in some of those things. So I'm I'm hoping to kind of play that role as well. Well, I've I've gotta ask you. I I love the idea of taking on some, you know, new new areas. I know WSTT has taken on sake not long ago, which is one of my hobbies. I'm I'm very much involved in that. What other areas are you looking at? So we will be evolving into beer at a point in time. Right. That's exciting. Yeah. Yes. It is. Yeah. There's already a significant work, done on that, and then we will. But at the moment, it's, it's paused while we fix those capacity challenges. What we don't want to do is risk opening up another category that's, that overwhelms workload wide and, you know, puts us even further back on that service with the APPs and the partners that we have at the moment. So, yeah, so that's in planning at the moment. Well, that's exciting. That's that's so interesting. I think we do have a lot of new categories, you know, within the drinks sector, things to take a look at. So that's very good to hear. I've gotta ask you sort of the the white elephant in the room because this show is part of the Italian line podcast. In terms of updating WSET materials, what kinds of things are being done in light of, you know, climate change, UK wine business, is growing exponentially and some very high quality, particularly bargling wines coming out of the UK, and I'm sure that'll continue to grow. Yep. But, Italy has always been a bugbear for all of us who've gone through the programs because we all say there's not enough time and space dedicated. What are your thoughts on updating material? Yeah. So the materials are on earth three year cycle of update, because a lot does change in that period of time, and all of those things get reviewed, at a point in time. And, and, yeah, we have an MW that leads that and and oversees all of the content that goes in. So, yeah, I think, yeah, the team are always open to suggestions. So, I'll I'll feed that back to them for you. Yeah. I'm I'm I'm leading the charge for all of us who wanna see more Italian stuff in in WSE team. Particularly in level three and diploma. So Okay. Yeah. We can have a sidebar chat about that. Yeah. Sure. Let's do that. Michelle, this has just been so great. I'm really so pleased that you took the time to come on today, and I I know that all of our listeners will be really excited to hear about all the things that you hope to to do moving forward with WSTT. It does mean a lot to all of us. It is, you know, clearly the global certification that everyone recognizes, you know, among a sea of others. And we wish you well, and we hope to see you soon. Thank you so much, Cynthia. It was great to meet you. And you. Take care. We hope you enjoy today's episode brought to you by the wine to wine business forum twenty twenty two. This year, we'll mark the ninth edition of the forum to be held on November seventh and eighth twenty twenty two in verona Italy. Remember, the second early bird discount on tickets will be available until September eighteenth. For more information, please visit us at wine to wine dot net. Hi, guys. I'm Joy Livingston, and I am the producer of the Italian wine podcast. Thank you for listening. We are the only wine podcast that has been doing a daily show since the pandemic began. This is a labor of love and we are committed to bringing you free content every day. Of course, this takes time and effort not to mention the cost of equipment, production, and editing. We would be grateful for your donations, suggestions, requests, and ideas. For more information on how to get in touch, go to Italian wine podcast dot com.