Ep. 1416 Cristina Mercuri | Voices With Cynthia Chaplin

Hey, guys. Check out Italian wine unplugged two point o brought to you by Mama jumbo shrimp, a fully updated second edition, reviewed and revised by an expert panel of certified Italian wine ambassadors from across the globe. The book also includes an addition by professoria Atilushienza. Italy's leading vine geneticist. To pick up a copy today, just head to Amazon dot com or visit us at mama jumbo shrimp dot com. Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. I'm Cynthia Chaplin, and this is voices. Every Wednesday, I will be sharing conversations with international wine industry professionals discussing issues in diversity, equity, and inclusion through their personal experiences, working in the field of wine. If you enjoy the show, please subscribe and rate our show wherever you get your pods. Hello. This is Cynthia Chaplin, and I'm very happy to welcome Christina Mercury to voices today. Christina is one of our very top people in Italian wine. She runs a school of wine in Milan. And she is very near the end of her master of wine journey, hoping to become the first female master of wine in Italy. So thank you so much for joining us today, Christina. It's a pleasure to have you on voices. Thank you, Cynthia. It's my pleasure as well. I'm very happy to be here. Well, we were so fortunate to have you as a judge for five star wines and wine without walls this year just a couple of weeks ago right before we need to link. And I just wanted to ask you, you know, with your experience and your deep, deep knowledge of Italian wine, what made you want to be part of the judging panel for five star wine? There's several reason, actually, because, I feel that this kind of competition is more and more important into the wine contest, but also internationally. And also, I like to investigate how the overall quality of the wines is changing, year by year. So it's also useful for me to have this kind of information and, taste in different style and different quality and different origin of the wines. It has been very, very useful. And also, it's nice to meet people, other professionals, master of wine. So It's a competition where actually a lot of experts from all around the world comes here in Italy and it's very important and it's useful to to meet with them and and gone with them. That's true. That's so true. We did have over seventy judges this year. From all parts of the world and all different parts of the wine sector. As you said, Masters of wine, top sommeliers, top educators, journalists. So it is a very sort of diverse group of judges. I'm glad you enjoyed that. What did you think of the quality of the wines this year? So overall, I think that the quality is increasing a lot. So I'm very happy to see that producer are more and more careful about the quality and the cleanest on the palette of the wine. So, yes, I I mean, There are obviously different qualities, but I feel that overall the quality of the wines is increasing year by year. Good. I'm glad to hear that. I have to say I agree with you on that. The quality of the winemaking and and result in our glass has certainly improved since I first started, being involved in Italian wine, which was only about fifteen or twenty years ago. So you would no longer than I would. I'm just gonna ask you about the format of the selection. You know, I know that when we all judge typically We judge on our own, but at five star wines and wine without walls, we use panels. So how did that work for you? Having panels is important because, since you want to be objective, you also have to cope with other personalities that maybe are more engaged with this specific style of wine, or maybe less. So it's a sort of fresh palette on the wine. So it's important to listen to their feedback on the specific glass and come out with one only description of the wine. It's more accurate in my opinion. That's true. I think that's very important because the way that it does work is the panel sits together, debates, and then the panel chair writes the final note. And we are very lucky also at five star wines to have members of Asenology come, analogists who are Italian who work with these wines. How was the analogist on your panel? Was his or her opinions more valuable? Did they shed light on things for the other people on the panel who maybe were not Italian? There were actually a good member of the staff. He was focusing on specific characteristics of the glass that maybe some of us didn't considerate. So this is a value because winemakers, so, analogy can be really severe sometimes, but, we need also this kind of, feedback. That's true. We always have this interesting conundrum when we have the asinology members join us because they are always the ones who mark the wine the lowest. So they're they're very critical. They really are. So let me ask you just in general, what do you think about the value of wine selections and wine competitions in the wine market these days. Do you think it's still important to hold these sorts of events? It's fundamental, especially for certain categories of wine. So I think there are two main reason for this because we we have to maintain this kind of competitions. First, it can help producers to penetrate new consumers, especially low and mid involvement consumers that actually trust the numbers, trust the medals, And the second reason is because of the equity of the brand, especially in high competition, origins or high competition style. Imagine the Kianti area is huge. So having a medal, having a score by a competition is usually useful to build the reputation of the brand. So the success of the brand in Italy and also internationally. Exactly. Exactly. Well, I know that your focus these days is on wine education. And I'm just wondering who are the wine students, you know, in your school these days. How are you reaching out to students and and getting them involved in wine education? One education is more and more important in Italy, and I'm happy to see that, consumer, a very diverse style of consumer are approaching different category in different level of one education. Consumer now want to investigate more. So they are very curious about how the one is made. Why it tastes like that? Where does it come from? How can I understand the price versus the quality? So I I think my strength is to offer a very diverse kind of courses from both online and classroom for both professionals and novice so that my scope is to value and highlight the seventy that we can have in this segment. That is quite a problem now in Italy. So many people are scared about, professionals in wine because, they believe they cannot reach the level of knowledge, in order to understand the wine but this is because we lack in the past the the value of the proximity. So language is something that we have to improve. Also working with a real professional. So professional that are recognized from an international point of view. And lastly, to work with, channels that are diverse. So for instance, social media is a real value to reach new consumer because they can trust you, and they can see how can they can feel more welcome, and so they can relax and, learn a lot about wine. Are you enjoying this podcast? Don't forget to visit our YouTube channel. Mama jumbo shrimp for fascinating videos covering Stevie Kim and her travels across Italy and beyond, meeting winemakers, eating local foods, and taking in the scenery. Now back to the show. That's a very good point gaining the trust of students and consumers and being able to speak with authority and give information in a way that is useful for people who are listening to you. And I so agree with what you said about language. We all work in W Set, and the language can be very exclusive, very old fashioned, very British, And we need to adapt that. We need to find a way to include language that will include people from other cultures where other plants grow, other food is eaten so that we can explain our wines to people who maybe haven't had the opportunity to taste them before and don't understand the words we use to describe them. Indeed. So I usually try to be really objective and technique with the wine, but explaining the wine in our way in a language that is very easy to understand, for my consumer, for my students. I think that's so important. I think the more of us as educators who can make our language more inclusive, the better it will be for the wine consumer and for the wine market in general. It should be more open and welcoming to people who aren't familiar with that old fashioned language. So I love that you're doing that. I want to ask you now about your master wine journey. I'm curious, and I'm sure a lot of our listeners will be curious too What's it like being the first female Italian candidate for master of wine? Very likely to pass very soon. We're all very proud of you and we're pulling for you and wishing for you and have our fingers crossed. What's it been like the process? Well, first, thank you for your support support because it's, really, wow. It's when I received that mail, I cried and I screamed and I laughed, and then I saw it was a a day very memorable. So I I felt incredibly happy, but also scared. And now that I'm working on my research paper, and, of course, I hope to pass. So I hope to become the first, Italian female, master wine. I feel a mix of, happiness, of course. I'm very proud of this, because of my work. I work at really, really hard, but also I'm quite scared and I feel the responsibility because It's not just for me. It's for the industry and for the women in the wine. So it's it's something that is very, very big. So I I hope to cope with that in my future role. That's really lovely to hear. I think A lot of masters of wine lose sight of the fact that they have the opportunity to be a role model and to encourage other people to hear you speak about it as being the first female master of wine in Italy really touches my heart because I know I'm very excited for you. Depending on when you pass, of course, many people listening don't know. There is only one master of wine in Italy as it stands, who's Gabriela Gorelli, who just became a master of wine only a couple of years ago. So not only will you be the first female, but you'll also be you know, among the very few that we have, there are a couple of other male candidates who we expect to pass soon, good friends, Andrea Leonardi and Pietro Russo, but it's a very small, very small bunch of people who have managed to get to this level of study and success, in the master of wine in Italy. So it's very exciting that you're so near, and we wish you so well. How have your male colleagues treated you throughout this process. Have they been supportive or or have you felt isolated as the only female? Well, actually, we were supporting each other. So I helped them. They helped me, especially with the Andrea owner. They will spend a lot of time together every day working together. But I have to say something because, I think the master wine is a lonely trip. So it's something that you have to do by yourself. It's something that you have to feel by yourself because you have to understand your weaknesses and, push yourself out of your comfort zone every single day. It's a very hard work. I work it really, really hard every day. From the morning up to the evening for many months. So you have to get ready for it. So every day, you have to sort of climb the everest because the four days of the exam, you must be there with all yourself. So it's like, you climb every day on Everest in order to arrive to to the exam and work on the beach. So it must be like that because the pressure is incredible. It's not only the pressure. It's the most difficult exam in the world, not only the wine business, and it's four days long. So it's a huge amount of time, and you feel the stress. So I work hard, especially by myself, not only studying, but also working on myself working on my mental health. I used to do a spin bike. So I was training my body. I was training my mind. I was training my culture in wine. It has been huge, and a huge amount of work. So my male mates were really supportive and I was supportive with them. It's nice to get friend along this trip, but mainly is a a trip that is for yourself, is you and the master wine. That's so true. It's really good to hear that you, you know, you were all able to support each other. I think it's really important. And, of course, I know Pietro and and Andre, and they're both such nice men and very generous with their knowledge as well. So it's great to hear that you were were part of that and that you are all able to be equals doing that. But I love your approach, the more holistic approach with your mental health, your physical health, and your, you know, building up your wine muscles as you worked so hard. I think I think that is a very female approach to things. Nothing is just linear for us. It's all very holistic. Lots of things have to happen at the same time. So it gives me hope to hear that that was how you approached it. And I think everybody who's listening, who's considering master of wine studies. That's a really wonderful thing to hear. Your way of looking at it, not just a study, but also as working on yourself privately as a person. I think that's great. Well, and, of course, Master of wine does have a mentorship program. Are you planning to stay in that and and mentor people as they come through. Indeed. And, also, this process, this program, opened your mind so much that you are really ready and able, and, you really want to help other people. So when other student come to me and say, oh, you passed the both the theory and practical together, how did you do? Would you like to help me? Yes. I so now I spend time with the other fellow students in order to help them building a stronger structure and, also supporting them with their crisis because, you have to cry a lot when you study. It's a long process, and I like to be supportive with them. Well, that's good to hear because those of us who are thinking about it will be glad to have you. So I just wanna ask you, you're obviously Italian and and living here and working in the wine industry. You know, in the Italian wine market, what do you think could be done to improve Italian market share, you know, about storytelling and communication. How do you think Italian wine is perceived globally? You know, we know WSET, and even Master Wine doesn't spend as much time on Italian wine as we think they should. What could we be doing better in our Italian wine marketing and storytelling? Oh, this is a a huge. So we have to focus on many, many stuff. So, basically, I think that we can work on different parameters. First, we have to increase the value of the wine. Many, many wines are priced at the too low, in my opinion. And if we increase the price, we increase also the perception of the quality of this wine. I completely agree with that. People people are far more interested in products that they see as being expensive and valuable and more towards the luxury end of the scale than they are in things that are easy to find, easy to buy for for very little money. I did. And also, we have to focus more on the typical marketing mix, not only on the promotion, but also on the product and especially on the people. So sometimes in the past, Italian producer were quite harrogant. Let me say that. And they believe they can do anything from production to marketing to sales. No. You have to ask a professional to do things that you're not able to do. So now I see more more and more producer that engage with professionals and ask the advice and the consentancy of a professional like me or other other professionals that work actually in the communication of the wine. This is quite important, and also the last point is, what I see is many producers now are working to improve the product itself. So, historically, the style of Italian wines was quite extractive with this dried finish, very intense in the texture. Now they are working more on achieving more contemporary style So we have a great resource, the huge amount of, native grapes. We just need to highlight this kind of production in order to meet the international standard level. So I see many producers that now I'm working on producing more slender style, more delicate, more vertical, less alcoholic. And this is a huge improvement for the Italian product. And it's very useful for me to raise a higher market share in the future. I agree. There's much more elegance, much more finesse, much more concentration on, as you said, a more vertical style line, less blending, more focus on individual varietals and making the best of them. And I think that's so important for Italian wine. I completely agree with you. And so also highlight the value of the native grapes. So we have a huge amount of different native grapes. We can value them much higher because international market is asking us these kind of grapes, this kind of wine. So the rediscover ancient grape varieties can be an important value for the future. Absolutely. You know, one can get a Marlow, a great Marlow anywhere in the world, but you're not going to get Feano anywhere else, but here. So I think I think you're absolutely right. We must work harder to highlight the unique elements of the native grapes that we have and the wonderful lines that are being made by, you know, winemakers who are working so carefully these days. And, hopefully, they'll be successful and encourage the up and coming winemakers to do the same. I think you're right. We need to continue on that path. Well, thank you so so much for being with us today. And once again, we wish you all the very best of luck with your research paper, which I know I will be very excited to read when it's finished and published. And we are on the edge of our seat. We hope you pass soon, and we can't wait to celebrate with you. Thank you, Cynthia. I'm very, very happy to spend time with you. And so thank you for your support on on my and double treat. It's a pleasure. It was lovely to meet you, and we hope to see you at five star wines and wine without walls again in the future. Thank you for listening. And remember to tune in next Wednesday when I'll be chatting with another fascinating guest. Italian wine podcast is among the leading wine podcast in the world and the only one with a daily show tune in every day and discover all our different shows. You can find us at Italian wine podcast dot com, SoundCloud, Spotify, Himalaya, or wherever you get your pods.