Ep. 1756 Baia Abuladze | Voices With Cynthia Chaplin

Welcome to the Italian Great Geek podcast. Join us as we explore personal stories of travel and tasting with Italy's must know grape for idols. Chart your own course with my Italian Great Geek journal, your personal tasting companion to accompany the series. Available now on Amazon. With thanks to calendula and partners for their generous support with this project. Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. I'm Cynthia Chaplin, and this is voices. Every Wednesday, I will be sharing conversations with international wine industry professionals discussing issues in diversity, equity and inclusion through their personal experiences working in the field of one. If you enjoy the show, please subscribe and rate our show wherever you get your pods. Hello, and welcome to voices. This is me Cynthia Chaplin. And today, I am absolutely delighted to welcome Baya Abildazzi to voices, Baya's the owner and founder of Baya's wine in Obcha in Georgia. So this is the first time that I've had the chance to speak to a woman winemaker from Georgia, and I'm so excited to have you with me. Thank you so much for coming today. Thank you for inviting Cynthia. That's my pleasure. It's great. It's just great to talk to you, and happy new year. Thank you for making time in a very busy holiday week to have a chat with me. I'm very interested in Georgian wines, and I have a lot of colleagues who are very busy writing about Georgian wines and, talking about them. So I'm anxious to come and visit. So You're the closest I can get this week. So I thought it would be a good week to be able to talk to someone from Georgia. You know, recently, it's been agreed and and concluded by scholars and scientists and wine people all over the world that You know, Georgia is more or less the actual birthplace of wine making. You know, we found artifacts there that are over eight thousand years old, and they show evidence of wine remains. So you are part of a hugely long tradition. And I know your family's been in the wine making business you know, for personal use at home for a long time since before you took over. So what brought you into the professional winemaking business? What gave you the idea to take your families, you know, small production and turn it into something much bigger? Tell us about tell us about the story. Yeah. And first of all, you are always welcome to come through Georgia, and we'll be happy to assist you and show you the the way we are doing. For me, personally, huge responsibility to continue the huge traditions and to be a part of new generation of winemakers here, and also like to continue the way of winemaking, our ancestors did them for a long, then long time. And on the other hand, like, for every people who is always connected to the wine, then it came to the DNA and it came to the everyday lifestyle. So, that makes me very happy and very often proud to to continue and to be part of the, great ways of winemaking and, and Viticulture by itself, which is very much connected to together. Because wine is not that something comes from the chemistry, it came from the grapes, and it came from the soil itself. So that's the whole connection and that's the whole, like, line of the life. That is so true. It's it is that's one of my favorite things about wine is that it really brings together, you know, history and culture and, you know, the the landscape, the soil, the climate, the people, the kinds of grapes, it all comes together in one one tiny glass. It's such a magical thing to to be part of. So what made you decide to take the small business and and turn it into something bigger? So my family was always doing wine even in communism time. And, my grandfather was an allergist from their occupation. He was always, like, teaching us and when we were kids, tiny little, like, kids, we were playing in there, whiners, and we were, like, playing with this beautiful seasonal, reasonable work. But, since I grew up, then I found out that, wine was very important things. And but on the other hand, we were very slow farmers and that we were just, like, two hectares of nursing. They was not really the two get get started then. And then when I was, like, seeing the other farmers, small farmers, then they, were able to bottle one and to label them and to also sell them to different countries, and it makes me very happy and makes me be living in that, doesn't matter if you're a small or big producer, you can always make your dream and make your, own production and even sell them to various health places. So That is great. It's nice to hear about, you know, not feeling daunted by being smaller than some of the some of the big guys. It's I think you get you get to be much more of an artisan and a craft men when you're when you're starting small. So, you know, how how challenging was it for you as a young woman in Georgia? You know, it was only just really ten years ago that you got into the wine business. What was it like when you first started out? So even cannot believe that's almost ten years past that. Is it true? So, like, the main challenge for me and for our team of the experience because We were experienced in Viticulture. We were experienced in winemaking, but then there's a huge line of, different things, different skills you need to have, sustainability of the producing and way of, like, bottling or labeling and doing all the documentation, meeting right people, and then, like, start also selling your product. It was very challenging from the beginning. But, I was very, like, kind of lucky because tip by step, we, we answer two different levels from, very, like, tiny numbers of local market and then explode it to the to the other places. So it was, like, very challenging from the beginning because, like, you need to have a lot of finances to, to have sustainable, like, protect production itself. And also, like, if you want to have that established winery, then you need to also have well managed, like, grace fields and, like, the right number of the of the producing bottles. So, but step by step, this, like, years passed and then, like, we were able to to go up a bit from the zero point to know. It sounds like it was a gigantic learning curve. That's I think you've explained the wine industry in in just a couple of sentences there. So many So there's so much more to it. And whenever I talk to people who are not in the wine industry, they think it's all fun. Everybody's just standing around tasting wine all day long, and that is not true. So there's a lot of work. Actually, tasting is the best part. That's true. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's a hard job, but someone has to do it. That's that's right. The fun thing about Georgia too is, you know, similar to Italy. Italy's got over five hundred native varieties of grapes on the national registry. And, you know, you told me yourself, Georgia has at least five hundred and twenty five, and potentially more were lost, you know, during communism. They were making massive commercial wines, not a lot of great quality. So let's talk about your vineyard now. You know, you you said you started off with two hectares. We know how many hectares have you got now and what grapes are you growing? Because I'm very interested to hear which varietals you're working with. So, actually, like, the diversity is very important. I I I believe in that, wine producing. And, yeah, Georgia has its own, like, very great base for being very diverse. And each, almost each region of the country has their own variety. For now, we do have eighteen hectares. And, like, the whole years we were just dreaming and aiming to to buy new towers and to like, work on the soil and to cultivate them on the right way for spring bread and white variety. For now, we are using a five local indigenous variety of for our region, and, three of them are white. And, tolicories, one of them, mainly planted. And then we have customer variety and also teach cover variety, and all of them are having this beautiful acidity and flavorful, like, potential also in the aroma and taste. From the red side, we are working with two right varieties. They are all adestably and ultimately separate. So they are lower, matures, lighten the study, and then, like, you know, very interesting research. For VISTA and our market has. This sounds so fascinating. I'm I'm excited for my trip to visit Georgia. I've been dying to learn more about these wines. So, it's fun to hear you talk about them. I'm glad you're the one who gets to pronounce is grapes because I'm sure I couldn't pronounce those grapes. So I I know you really got your winery up and running, you know, as we said, ten years ago, around two thousand and thirteen, and you are using bio organic techniques in the vineyard and traditional clay, covering in the cellar. So what was your decision making process based on? You know, did you decide to go down the bio organic path and use traditional, you know, earth and where vessels in your cellar, or were you already doing that? It's not easy to be bio organic. So what what made you decide to do that? So, actually, really, in the same village, and, like, our health is surrounded by by the grapes and vines everywhere. So whatever we're trying is coming back to to to us. And, my family was always doing and, like, including moon cycle or, like, taking care on the on the graves in a very nature and organic way. So we are using different praise. And, it's not an easy, easy and, like, right way always, but when you have high humidity and a lot of rain there, but It's more work, but, depends on the precise and very, very, researchable work by itself. And then, like, we decided to, like, continue in organic production way And, on the other hand, like the varieties which we are working with are very much sustainable and adopted to the climate environment we have there. For sure, we were having a very heavy, years like, last year was super humid and super rainy, but, you know, we were, successfully in the end for the harvest and, did our best, like, twenty four hour work mostly in the in the field because we also have the new plants and they need, like, double and triple, and let's say, work, and attention to compare to the the old plants. And we're well, we are talking about clay pots and crevasse, like, that's also our family tradition to to always made one inside them. And what we're seeing is that the grape canes from the soil, grape canes from the mother nature, and they go back for, like, newborn inside it. Like mother nature again. Very, like, inside the clay pot, we always have the right temperatures, like, very slow process of fermentation and maceration. And that we do gain maceration, which is also, like, kind of traditional way because grapes can self tie that are including a lot of interesting, like, if, so fermentation is cutting by itself. And then, like, their whole, like, sweetness is combined to the right alcohol and That's the way our engineers were using, and, that's the way our, like, family was always, producing wine. And, sometimes we also have made the mistakes, but then every year we're studying how to create wine and how to blend them and how to work on the on the, right way. It depends on the maturity level of the graves or, like, activity level of the of them. I agree so much with what you said about living in your vineyards, you know, and anything that you spray comes back at you. I I really agree with that. It's we struggled here in Italy, and and I'm love loving your story because it's very similar to to what, you know, I have here in Italy same type of weather problems this year. It was it was humid. It was wet. We had a lot of paranaspora mildew. Are you spraying copper? What are you doing? So we are using copper sulfate sprays. And in the early springtime when they have bags, then we are also using some oily preparation. And, but it's very limited per hectare because, like, it doesn't matter if you use them, like, maximum size, then you you don't really don't really do anything good. And also, like, our region is very fertile, very green region. And we have a lot of grasses, but we work with the cultivation or we work with with, mulching them and cutting the grass on the right time to to also protect the cover. And also, like, while me, my sister, my brother, our appearance, and very nice team works behind this physical church work, then, like, we need to, like, have the responsibility of our own health and our own, like, happiness working with something very valuable and very good. Well, that's it's true. And and I know, you know, your your winery is still very much a family business, and and you run it with your brother and your sister. How's that going, being with your siblings all the time? Are you the boss? You know, the the company's named after you? Do you do you make decisions together? Do you boss them around? You know, your name is on the label. So at the end of the day, you want everything to be right. And you've got some wines now named for your sister, Gavansa. So how is your brother Georgie doing? You know, his his two sisters are bossing him. Tell us about this relationship. What what roles are you playing in the winery? How does it work being with your brother and sister all the time? So I feel that I'm very lucky to to have a chance to work with them because Like, they are very open minded people and conscious background is master of agronomy, which is, like, super crucial and super important for us to be to be ready for any challenges in inside the field. And, also gear his background is analogist studies. And, like, he knows a lot of about techniques and a lot of about, like, a very, important things of blending of wine, and but he's super supportive too, and he's the one who is saying that I need to follow-up my sisters, and then, like, let's build up everything together. I don't need a special label, but I need to be together and build up the one or together with you. So, like, the thing is that, we almost do not have a holiday days or, something special because, like, we know that we need to build up that process now, and we need to follow-up the process now, because ten years later, then, like, everything will be very late. And still we have a lot of energy and still we can do three hundred, like, more than three hundred, fifty days, like, per year to to work together. Coming back to America, Van Italy International Academy, the ultimate Italian wine qualification will be held in New York City from four to six March twenty twenty four. Have you got what it takes to become the next Italian wine ambassador? Find out at ben Italy dot com. Well, I know, in two thousand and fifteen, you took part in an agricultural startup competition in Georgia, and you won two thousand US dollars as a grant. So what did you do at that point? Did you do with the money? What was the effect that it had on the winery? You know, it it can't have been easy in those first years. As you said before, you need the finances. You didn't even have a car. You had to deliver wines, you know, on public transport. So you know, how did you get all this going and managed to keep going and what did you do with the grant? Who supported you? Who encouraged you and helped you and guided you? Oh, yeah. Like, that years was super, like, heavy and but we were very much, like, motivated to continue to do even distribution by the public transport and, take care of these heavy boxes to the to the right places. So, like, we got the grant for, the exact labeling and, we bought also the small bottling machine, Italian one, actually, which was working really well for our smoke production and then, like, that, like, labels we created was, very nice and we were using them to the local market. And we were able to have, chance to participate in different wine fairs having these fancy bottles and labels, and, like, meet people, for tasting and, for talking about the wine. So that's what the kind of first processed because our family came from very rural area, and we were never been able to bottle one before and even think about selling or think about, like, concentrating only on the grapes because, well, like, back to nineteen nineties. It was very, like, heavy to create a fin financial value and to create, something like to earn a lot of money for your, small business ideas. But, you know, even to seven dollar with very, white time, value for us to restarts until we label our own tree on the bottle. That's incredible. That's that's so great to hear that, you know, that's a small amount of money, but it really changed your business, at just the time you needed it to do. So you know, very wise use of a of a small grant, and it clearly was so important, to Dubai his wine at the time. And I I know that now you're part of the Georgian Farmers Association you know, why did you join that association? And how did all the other farmers react to having this, you know, lovely young woman join up with them? So I feel that associations are always having a very important value because it connects people and it also, like, like, gives you the chance to to open your mind and to meet different people with different backgrounds and share their success stories. Actually, our biggest match with the chairwoman, you know, from the association, and she was super supportive and then, like, she opened a lot of stores for our small winery. Like, she meant, like, connected us to the media, And then, like, you know, local media is talking to a visit our winery and visit our region, and then, like, like, she also bring us to different trainings for, team management and for, like, different, very important, trainings as well because, like, when you manage something, you need to have those skills back to you because in the small production, no one has a team with, you know, different, like, managers or financial people or, or accountants by itself. So you need to restart everything from your side and then you you will get a chance to to hire people for that. So we are still members, and we are seeing how great value it has for, for for every farmers. Well, I know you and your brother and your sister kept studying through through all of that development and all the challenges that you were faced with in the early years when you first started. How did you all cope with studying and working at the winery and managing the vineyard and building up your business sounds like an enormous amount of very hard work. Did, you know, was the George and Farmers Association part of helping you through that, or did you just have to power through the three of you on your own? So we were lucky that, I'm the oldest in the in the let's say, team. So, then I started working, like, in the in the fields and in the in the winery, then my sister was having the chance to study on the master level. And at the same time, my brother also were having chance to study, and all these studies by by itself. And they, they all come back on these different visions. And, for us, it's very important to share share new things and to share new stories. So all the all the ones we created, is always under the observation. And we when we are seeing that, we like some products for example, we like four years ago, we've been in love with pet nuts, these bubbles came naturally to the bottle. And, we said that we had a great basis of peace cover up with high activity and, and a lot of interesting minerality. So we created the bubble south of this variety and then like, I think that, being always out and seeing what's happening in the in the area of, wherever you work, brings you back to your production and to bring this, new new values and, new ideas to create something new Patnet is so so popular all over the world now. How how is yours doing? Are are people loving it? People feeling well, and we start from, like, six hundred total production. And now we do almost, like, ten thousand bottles per year and we are seeing also to, to diversify them because we we do have this lumber coastal pet nuts. We do have very, very light ones. And, we sell them very actually during summertime, in in different countries like in Japan or in Norway and Sweden. But That's fantastic. That's it, you know, clearly all of this effort really paid off. I know the United Nations development program recognized you for being a a bold and strong entrepreneur and supported you in a business training program. And in twenty twenty two, the EU granted your winery some financial support as well. What did you do with all of this? Let's talk about how important these grants were for you because, you know, clearly this is something that's really helped helped you long. Do you think enough women are getting enough government support in agriculture and in wine? So, like, I feel that when you develop something, like, extra finances are so much helpful that you almost like being around five years. So, like, mostly our main concentration was to build up the, you know, brave fields, and we were paying all the money for soil for, like, new tractors and for, like, new roots and planting and all of the very heavy financial things, and then, like, in a technician's team up with the grant program and that we were able to, buy a very sustainable, let's say, botting and packaging, lines. And now we can both wear on, like, thousand and, one hundred. But those per hour, and we are we are now able to have the gorging machine for Kath Madison. Some filtering machines are very important, very useful things for the production by itself. And I think it's easy to get access to the finances and it's getting, also easier because now a lot of things are coming up for small producers to to help them to, you know, be more sustainable in the in the production way. That's good to know. That's really good to hear. It's so encouraging because you know, small producers are the future, and it's good to know that it's not that difficult to get grants, from from the EU. I think, you know, my husband is from the UK and Brexit was a big mistake for the UK, my father in law's a a sheep farmer, and they lost all of those grants. So I think you're absolutely right. These things are so important, and I'm glad to hear that it's not difficult to get them. But let's talk about the wines and the winery and the business. How's it going today? How many wines are you making in total and how many bottles a year? And you said you're selling outside of Georgia. So I wanna hear where you're exporting to. So, like, I'm very lucky to say that now we are exporting wine into fifteen countries in the world, and, UK is also very beautiful part of it with different other places. Of your European Union and, also, like, United States and then, like, some very nice Asian countries, very new for Georgia one. It's tough for now, our production is around thirty thousand bottles because it's still new one year, sir, like, two or three or so times and we need to wait, to develop them and to, black to get the new new vintages, in the next five years. So, and, also, like, we have a small secret that we are building the, new winery, and, we are seeing that, new plans will have a right place to be mature than to be fermented. Well, it's not secret now. Our our listeners are listening. They're gonna be looking for your wines now. It's almost finished. That's why we can, yeah, speak about that lightly. And, yeah, that's that's a beautiful way. And, I can say that none of the seasons of the year are, like, even even those days of new years, we are working inside the cellar to taste the wines to blend them to, rock the vines and there are a lot of lot of interesting work even now. That is great. That is so good to hear. I know you're also working with the Cardano Foundation and you're using their blockchain system. Can you tell us about this process? Why is it so important for your wines to have access to blockchain technology So that was a beautiful project which was offered by the the the person who is very, feeling love with our wines. And, it was the first, let's say, first, time in the country of Georgia that one or use the blockchain system to add extra value. Wow. I didn't know you were the first one in Georgia. That's great. Yeah. I'm through the project, we also build up the possibility that, you know, our back labels that are cure codes and then, the final consumers can get the all the information regarding to the terroir or Viticulture processes and everything connected today. Now a single portal they have in there in their tables. So That's really good. It for people who don't know blockchain and wine, it just helps, preserve the authenticity and sort of the how the wine has passed through pans, you know, the the logistics of the wine and, where it's come from, where it's been sold or bought. So preserving that provenance is really important, and especially when you're creating such a traditional special product as you are, having blockchain early on in your winery is probably gonna be super important for the future of your wines You know, people looking back at the old vintages will wanna make sure that, they have all of that information at their fingertips. So it's very interesting. I didn't realize you were the first in Georgia, so that's fantastic. Well, you must be an amazing role model for for girls in your community. You know, what what advice would you give to young women in Georgia now who wanna get into the wine world? So now you can easily find, like, very successful woman line makers and young even young woman line makers, in any of the one making bridges of Georgia, and it's very, important because, like, you know, women were always behind the scenes and behind the labels. But now we can see them in front and now we can see how nice wines and how tasty wines they do. And, and, also, on the other hand, you can see that even a very small and tiny producers are very popular, in the export markets or in the local markets that's very helpful. And, that's, I think the new, very new vision and very new. Future for for wine of the of the country, Georgia. And is there, are there women in, you know, the smell sommelier roles and, you know, wine buyers, wine exporters, or aside from winemakers, what else are women doing in wine in Georgia these days? Oh, you can find a lot of, some ideas came from W. Cursley's and also, like, elite day restaurants and the elite day. Also, like, special wine bars here. There are also a lot of people in the media, and, actually, they do a lot of blogs on or writing the articles in the in the, let's say, in the journals and they're super super popular here. Oh, that's good. That's really good. I'm glad to hear that women are are finding their way into wine in Georgia in all sorts of ways. I think it's important. People don't really understand how many different kinds of jobs there are in the wine industry. So that's really good to know. And I know that you were named as, you know, thirty under thirty for for wine making in twenty nineteen by Forbes magazine. So have to ask you what your plans are for the winery for the next five or ten years. You know, you've said you've got the new winery being built. Where do you see yourself on New Year's Day in twenty thirty four, ten years from now? Well, the four winemakers, like, to to talk about the future plans, it's very easy because you know that, there is you will be over there. And, let's say I wish to to plant all the vineyards. We you're having, and I wish to also have, well established line or with, like, hundred and fifty thousand bottle production, which is not super high, not super, small, and also, like, a lot of mask holes and a lot of motivation to continue like searching new things and also, like, like making our family happier and, in health care as well. Oh, that's those are good those are good wishes I think that's that's a very aspirational plan. I'm gonna wait to see this one hundred thousand bottle wine production. I bet it'll be sooner than ten years. You sound like you're working so hard and say thank you so much for giving me your time today. It was really great to hear what you're doing and to learn a bit about Georgia. And I am gonna come and visit you this summer. I'm gonna keep in touch and come and see you. So give my best wishes to your brother in sister and happy New Year, and we wish you all the best of of luck for twenty twenty four at Baya's wine. Oh, thank you so much for giving us such a great chance and start the year. We such a, like, great combination. And, yeah, I wish you all the best also, like, thank you so much. Thank you for listening. And remember to tune in next Wednesday, I'll be chatting with another fascinating guest. Italian wine podcast is among the leading wine podcasts in the world, and the only one with a daily show. Tune in every day and discover all our different shows. You can find us at Italian wine podcast dot com, SoundCloud, Spotify, Himalaya or wherever you get your pot.