Ep. 1853 Kiara Scott | Voices With Cynthia Chaplin

Welcome to the Italian Great Geek podcast. Join us as we explore personal stories of travel and tasting with Italy's must know grape for idols. Chart your own course with my Italian Great Geek journal, your personal tasting companion to accompany the series. Available now on Amazon. With thanks to calendula and partners for their generous support with this project. Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. I'm Cynthia Chaplin, and this is voices. Every Wednesday, I will be sharing conversations with international wine industry professionals discussing issues in diversity, equity and inclusion through their personal experiences working in the field of one. If you enjoy the show, please subscribe and rate our show wherever you get your pods. Hello, and welcome to voices. This is Cynthia Chaplin, and today I'm totally thrilled to welcome Kiara Scott to voices. Kiara is the sole winemaker at the Brookdale Estate in South Africa, where she was appointed in twenty nineteen at the very, very young age of twenty six. She became the youngest female head winemaker in all of South Africa Africa. So welcome to the show. I know this is a busy time for you. Thank you for taking time to be with us today, Kiara. Oh, thank you, Cynthia. Thank you for having me. And I'm looking forward to a chat. Well, me too, because you have got an interesting story to tell, and I love stories like yours. You've had such an interesting path into wine. You grew up in the Cape Flat Southeast of Central Cape Town where some of the suburbs are notorious for poverty and gang violence and substance abuse. And you've said that alcohol was pretty much taboo in your family, and you didn't even know there were vineyards only thirty miles away until you were in high school. So how on earth did you get into the wine industry? I'm I'm really interested to know what happened and how did you get involved? So, I mean, everything that you're saying, yes, it's it's exactly like that. I thought that, you know, wine just came from the store. Oh, we bought it at no idea about vignettes and things like that. And I was quite curious, because my family is quite traditional. He's quite traditional. You know, they were conservative. They you told me to stay away from alcohol. It's very bad. It's not good for you, and to have a look at my surroundings, which wasn't painting a very positive picture. And that got me curious about wine. Like, you know, if if it's so bad for you, why do people continue to drink it? Yeah. And they kind of that piqued my interest. And I think I was at an age where, you know, whatever my parents said no, too. I just did the opposite thing. I found out about Alsonburg agricultural College. And I thought, I mean, this is something that I could definitely do. I thought that I'd be frolicking around in the vineyards, having a a great time, and I love nature. And and that's basically how I got into winemaking, just by being curious, I guess, and looking into where, how is this done? Why do people drink it? And I was also quite curious about the chemistry of wine, how it goes from choose to to alcohol. Well, those are all such key factors. I loved what you said about your parents said no, so you thought you would look into it. I have six children. So I know what that's like. And it's it's nice that you ended up with a good career out of that, rebelliousness. But you you said, you know, you mentioned the Elsenberg Agricultural College at the University of Stellenbosch. I know you went on to study there eventually in the winemaker program. So, you know, historically, the the student winemakers there were mostly white men. And in your year, there were only two women and only two other non whites in your whole class, and it must have been very daunting. So I just wanna know what was this experience like for you as a young woman, especially because I'm sure your parents weren't all that thrilled about it from the sounds of it. So what made you more determined to succeed? You know, how do your former classmates think about you now. You know, did you ever get a chance to sort of do that? I told you so sort of moment now that you're successful. So, yeah. I mean, we were with two women and there are two other people of color. And I will say, I mean, I definitely felt, respected and felt, valued. Although there were some tough moments, I will be honest. There were definitely tough moments, but it was, you know, we we all had one goal. I wanted I was determined then until and now, but I was quite determined then, you know, to finish what I what I had started. And and to do this. And it's just like the more the more I learned about wine, the more I started to taste wine, the more I got involved in vineyards or learning about vineyards, the more enthusiastic sick and excited that I became about this career. I mean, at that time, I didn't necessarily think that I would be, you know, he'd want me to get looked at at such a young age, but I was, you know, I went completely down the rabbit hole into the world of wine. The more I learned, the more I realized I I didn't know anything. And the more I wanted to know, but I definitely didn't have. I told you so. Did a moment, but, I'm still good friends with a lot of a lot of the people that I studied with. Yeah, so A lot of them are also very successful. So I'm really happy about that. This is filling me with joy because, you know, wine is such a such a fascinating subject. You can, you know, I have spent twenty five years of my life in wine, so I know, how you feel about it. It it does bring together as you said chemistry and nature and all of these exciting things. So, you know, it it was interesting to listen to how you how you took that all on board. So, you you know, this this idea of, young women of color in your class and just kind of in South Africa in general, how difficult is it now for young women of color to get into wine? I mean, you, you just went through university not that long ago. So what does that picture look like? You know, what would be your words of wisdom or advice to, you know, a young woman of color wanting to get involved in the wine industry in South Africa? Well, it's not it's not really difficult. Yeah. I think any more for any person of color to enter into the wine industry. In fact, there are a lot of people that encourage it and there's a lot of organizations that go out there and try to tell people that young women or men of color, to join and enter into the wine industry, which is fantastic. And we're seeing it across the, across the sphere, like, you know, Sonier's, winemakers, other wine professionals and educators. We there's definitely an influx of people of color that's joining or entering into the wine industry. And then I think advice, for a young person that wants to enter into the wine industry. I think, you know, You need to be passionate about it. You need to learn, continue to learn and network, you know, talk to many different people. There's no such thing as a as a bad question or the wrong question, ask a lot of questions, place lots of wines, if you're not or if someone is not studying it, go to a lot of different tasting rooms. Yeah. Just taste lots of wines and and immerse yourself, learn more about it. And, you know, we're living in a modern era where everything that you need to know. Everything that you're looking for is at the, you know, is at the tip of your fingertips. So there's no excuses. You are the perfect student for me. I I have been an educator for many years, and you are the perfect student. There is no such thing. It's a bad question, and you, you know, you need to study and you need to get out there and and have some experiences. So this is really good news to hear that, you know, young people of color are being invited and welcomed into the wine industry in South Africa because it wasn't always like that back in my day. So I'm really excited to hear this, you know, good news story. And I know that when you finished your university, you were selected for the very prestigious, CWG protege program So tell us a little bit about the program and what you gained from it. You know, where did it take you and how did it shape you as a winemaker? You came out of university all passionate, and you went into this program, and what did you do? Get rid of university little skater as well. I think that's true of all of us. Definitely. But, you know, the the k b y makers deal, gosh, it's actually really been such an amazing and life changing program actually. I work with the most amazing winemakers and got to network with all of the the the best winemakers in South Africa. The networking is is priceless, you know, because all of a sudden you're exposed to about forty five to fifty of the best wire makers and whatever questions you have, they write in front of you, or if you need an introduction, there's someone who can introduce you to this particular winemaker that's maybe good at Chardonnay, good at some New Blanc or, good at at making Capricy, for example. So it's just the networking learning from all of these winemakers. If you put yourself out there to ask them. And, generally, they're very generous and share the share information very willingly and openly. And then also being a part of the Capewire maker's skill, they do taste things. So they do tastings a few times a year, and you taste wines that you only read open books, you know. It happens throughout the year with all of the members and they invite the protegees to join them. And the wines that we taste, you know, are wines that you you read open books and and you it's not very readily available. A lot of these wines. So just being able to to sit with them in a tasting year how they discuss and think about wine, and also being able to taste the most amazing wines with them. It's it's really great. And, I mean, in the protege program, they don't just only focus on you being a winemaker. They also, you know, a lot of these winemakers tricky about you personally. So even though I've been out of the protege program now, I think for five oh, gosh. I'm not doing I'm not going to say that for a long time. I still I still have the the winemakers that I I used to work with. They're still sending me a message. Hey, Keara. How are you? How is harvest going? This is what's happening on my side. Keep me updated with how you're doing. Yeah, they're so they genuinely keep, and they genuinely invested. So it's a fantastic program. It's been great for me and and my career in wine. Yeah. It's been actually fantastic. I think these sorts of nurturing and mentoring programs are so useful, you know, of course, all over the world, but especially in wine where it hasn't been always that easy to get involved in you know, we we learn to nurture our vineyards and we learn to nurture our wines, but actually nurturing the people who are in our industry is something that we're still learning how to do. And I'm I'm really happy that you had such a positive experience with Cape winemakers guild and program. How many people go through the program in a year? So it's in a year, there's nine nine or ten, students. So three three wine students. And then they've just added now one, Viticulture student as well. So maybe it's it's twelve then. Yeah. If they're So it's a growing program. That's really great. Again, this is really good news for South Africa. So I know that kind of during the program and and towards the end of it, you eventually met up with Duncan Savage when Yes. Brookdale was just starting around two thousand sixteen. So tell us about that time. What about Duncan and and Brookdale got you really excited? It's a beautiful estate. It's absolutely stunning, but, it wasn't like that when it first got off the ground. Are you enjoying this podcast? Don't forget to visit our YouTube channel. Mama jumbo shrimp for fascinating videos covering Stevie Kim and her travels across Italy and beyond, meeting winemakers, eating local foods, and taking in the scenery. Now back to the show. No. No. It wasn't like that at all. So I I joined Duncan immediately after my I finished my my time with the Capoir maker skill, and I was appointed that he as his assistant winemaker. And Duncan was the consultant to Brookdale at the time. It was very small. So and Yeah. It's very early in its life. And yeah, things were very different here. At that time, we had just started replanting on the property. Pulled out a lot of the vines, regraded, the manor house was being built. There was no restaurant or wine in your tasting room, on the estate as of yet. And in twenty seventeen, we only made one wine, which was at the at the thousand three hundred bottles. And, let me go back a little bit. So I I joined Duncan and then that's when I met Tim, but I used the owner of Brookdale. And, I made the the Brookdale Shannon with Duncan in twenty eighteen. And then in twenty nineteen, Brutel was was growing, and Duncan's business was also growing, quite fast at that time. And then Brutel needed a a winemaker. And the shift was quite organic and natural. I've been working with the grips. I knew the owner. I knew a lot of the staff at that time. And then I just basically moved over. I like to joke and say, Duncan, kick me out. But, it was just a really organic move from savage, to gluco. I think you're being very humble here. You know, clearly you were You were working really hard over those early years because, you know, Tim and Brookdale named you their head winemaker as you said in twenty nineteen, and you were only twenty six. So, you know, that that says a lot about what you had already accomplished and what they saw in you as a person. It must have been a little overwhelming. So, you know, what did your parents have to say about wine at that point? You know, how did it feel to take over at Brookdale and and get everybody to trust you? Well, I mean, at that time, it was quite silly. But I actually, I I try not to think about these things too much. I'm well, you know, keep your head down and work. And then sometimes when I poke my head, I'm like, whoa, what? You know, how do you deal with this happen? And then you, and then I kind of get down again and we we keep moving. You know, we keep working, but, I mean, it was fantastic. It was quite silly, just quite daunting, initially. But I think I had a great and I have a great support structure. I have done that was, you know, and he's still helping me in a sounding mood for me if I even need anything. And we've got a fantastic team on this state that, you know, makes it all come together. So it it's it gets better. It's like, yeah, it got a lot better. And my parents were very proud. I bet they are. They should be really proud. How how was it when you first took over when Duncan left and you took over, did it take a while to get everyone on the estate to trust you and to go along with your ideas, or were they were they on board with what you wanted to do? Well, at that time, we were I mean, we've we've grown so much over the last few years, but at that time, we were a very small team, and Duncan Duncan actually remained as a consultant. So he was still around. If I if ever I was running, you know, tight or needed some advice, but something was definitely still around. So, it was great to have him and and Adam as a as a sound board. Absolutely. And and that continuity, that's helpful. Exactly. And also, you know, the staff, because it was such a small team, it it was great actually in the beginning because I got to work with everyone. And I was most of the time, I was all the only female with older and and also younger on other men. I am a firm believer if you give respect, people will respect you. We work together very nice, and also it was think nice for the men to see all the people that I worked with, the guys, to see that I'm here. I get stuck in with them. We work together, and and it actually made it a lot easier for me. And if there was ever any, any conflicts or disagreements, then it could be resolved very easily, yeah, with mutual respect. That is great to hear. That's this is, I'm feeling so positive about this interview because it's it's a lot of good news. And I I love your attitude that you just got in there, got your hands dirty, did all the jobs that everyone else was doing, And so you earned their respect. It was, as you said, a very organic process. But I I wanted to ask you, you know, we all know the South African wine industry has a lot of challenges, you know, including very low level of support from the government and bans on alcohol sales and exports during COVID when you were first taking over, I'm like, no. And there have been a lot of power cuts, all the time due to corruption in the energy industry in your country. So without talking about the politics of it all, which would take far too long. How are you handling these challenges as the head winemaker at Brookdale? Because it's not easy. You know, you have to deal with so much more than just a usual winemaker with weather and pests and cellaring problems. You have all these other issues going on. How how's that working out for you now? Well, I won't say I'm going to I'm going to keep this one very short. I will say that you, you know, as a as a as a company, in terms of load shedding, for example, because during August, you'll have no power sometimes for four hours out of the day or even eight hours depending on what level it is. So that just must be so frustrating. It's incredibly frustrating, but we have we've put in solar energy. We've got solar panels, and then we've got a generator. So, I mean, those are the things that we have to do now and incorporate to make sure that we can have a smooth system in the cellar, make sure that when the grapes come in, we're able to process. It is definitely added cost. Which is not great, but we have to, in a sense, take matters into our own hands. Absolutely. You're safeguarding your your harvest that way. So And I love to hear that you're you're harnessing solar energy. That's, you know, that's really, really useful, leads me right on to my next question, actually, because I know you're interested in sustainability and and vineyard practices. So aside from solar panels, what else are you doing at Brookdale to sort of get the best possible wines into your bottles? So we are not certified organic, but we make use of, these, predators, natural predators in our vineyards. We definitely try to spray as little as possible. We are making, you know, taking care about water, getting all that active meditation. So, yeah, we're doing it small things. Really moving our alien vegetation, for example. And this is something that's been happening now for many years. So in our winter season, we'll go through the property. We'll remove all of the alien vegetation, and we've replanted Well, we've been with lost count is about three thousand six hundred indigenous trees on the property. Wow. We definitely care about the environment, and not just focus only on on vineyards, but to make to have it sustainable, we've got the most incredible bird life on the estate. We've got some some beautiful, little tape It's not a cable fox, but, you know, a small, the small cut, we call it a roi cut. So we've got the most beautiful diverse and buck as well on this state. So that just speaks about speaks of how diverse and as we're not certified organic, but how organically, things are growing. Yeah. That's perfect. Again, this is this is a far more positive interview than I I was expecting. I'm I'm so happy to hear about, you know, the protecting things that you're putting in place for the biodiversity. That's the way of the future. We all have to do it, you know, conserving our water and and not using chemicals. So I'm excited about this. I know you're growing a lot of Southern European varietals. Obviously, the climate where you are is similar to the south of France in many ways. So if you could make a dream wine at Brookdale, your your very own dream wine, what would you make? Okay. It's such a tough one. You know, because we're making in the Brooklyn range, all our all of our wines. So I'm super chuffed with the wines I've been making. And, you know, every year, year on year, as I become more comfortable and learn more about the vineyards and more comfortable in the cellar, because we just got a new we just bought a new seal at a year and a half, young. As I become more comfortable in the ceiling, learn more about the property. We've got a lot of young clients here. I just believe that the wines are going to get better. But at the moment, I think I'm in my I was saying to someone earlier this this week. I'm in my photo here and I feel like I'm really enjoying. Would you? So, I mean, if I were the dream right now for me would be to make a Brookdale read, you know, the the iron fist in the velvet gloves. Right. That's that. That would be the wine now that I would I would like to kind of tick off and do well. And what varietals would you use? Well, what you've got planted on this stage, you've got some Tariga nationale. We've got a little bit of fifty zero. We've got some Vedri. So we'll see what happens. I'm excited about this. Okay. I'm gonna be keeping my eye on this. I am I'm a big fan of an iron fist in a velvet glove style. So, that's a that's a great thing to be aiming for. So Listen, last question, and it's a big one because I know you're only thirty one this year. So where do you want to be by your fortieth birthday? What's what's the plan? What's the goal? Share a little bit of your aspiration with us. Oh my goodness. Hopefully, you'll be drinking your big brookdale red. Hopefully. Hopefully, I'll be doing that. Gosh, that's that's a big question, but I'd I would like my own form. I'd like some cows. I'd like some sheep. So I'm chicken. That that's a personal girl. Yeah. That's that's what I'd like. I mean, also I think wine wise with brutally State, yeah, just to be producing the best possible wines. And I I think my my team is to be one of, you know, the the best winemakers in my age category, you know, in my I think you're well on the way from the sound of it. But that's that's it. You know, just learn more, continue to make the best wine, live holistically, and have balance and, yeah, balance in in the wine and in life. That's we are not gonna get anywhere better with this conversation. I love the I love the joy in your approach to everything you're doing. Not everyone loves their job as much as you clearly do. And I think aiming for sustainability, a holistic lifestyle, you know, looking to be the best winemaker of your age and having your own farm and making these interesting you know, wines in South Africa from interesting grapes in a Torica and all of these different things. You have so much coming. You've accomplished so much already, but you have so much yet to do. And it's very exciting to talk to Laura. Thank you so much for your time today. Thank you. Thank you very much, and thank you to Inwana's listening. Thank you for listening. And remember to tune in next Wednesday, I'll be chatting with another fascinating guest. Italian wine podcast is among the leading wine podcast in the world, and the only one with a daily show. Tune in every day and discover all our different shows. You can find us at Italian wine podcast dot com, SoundCloud, Spotify Pimalaya or wherever you get your pods.