Ep. 2079 Deborah Brenner | Voices with Cynthia Chaplin

Who wants to be the next Italian wine Ambassador? Join an exclusive network of four hundred Italian wine ambassadors across forty eight countries. Vineetly International Academy is coming to Chicago on October nineteenth is twenty first. And while Matikazakhstan from November sixteenth to eighteenth. Don't miss out. Register now at Vineeti dot com. Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. I'm Cynthia Chaplin, and this is voices. Every Wednesday, I will be sharing conversations with international wine industry professionals discussing issues in diversity, equity, and inclusion through their personal experiences, working in the field of wine. If you enjoy the show, please subscribe and rate our show wherever you get your pods. Hello, and welcome to voices. This is Cynthia Chaplin, and today I am so happy to have Deborah Brenner with me on voices. Deborah is a self described social entrepreneur and the founder and CEO of Women of The Vine and spirits, of which I am a huge fan. They have a global membership dedicated to driving the beverage industry toward a more diverse and equitable and an inclusive era. And providing encouragement and support and empowerment for everyone involved. And just recently Deborah was named by wine industry network as one of the most inspiring people in twenty twenty four. So thank you so much for giving us the time today, Deborah. I can't wait to chat with you. Thank you. I am so thrilled to be here. Well, let's talk a little bit about how you got into the wine world. You know, I know originally your career was in television and film tech What got you out of TV and movies and into wine? You know, I got into the tech industry on the television and film side of of technology, right after I got out of, out of college, And, so we're talking about the late eighties and very, very male dominated industry. You know, I loved what I was doing, but I felt that, after years and years of doing it, I was almost I was in the industry almost fifteen years. I really didn't think I could fully thrive, because of it being such a male dominated industry, and I was working, around the globe So it was actually during a trip. I took to Napa in Sonoma, and I have always been a wine enthusiast, but I didn't know a lot about it. And it was during that trip that I actually learned about the amazing women that were, and I say literally behind a lot of these iconic wines because they were not being promoted. They were not visible. They were not being talked about in the media. And I was just like, wow. How could all these amazing women be doing the winemaking and bitter culture and owners and that? And nobody's talking about it. And I came back and I decided to write a book about the women that were trailblazing, and that's how the name women of the body, from women of the Biden spirit, actually stuck because that was the name of my book. Right. Okay. Well, you, you know, that book, was was so important. It's it's one of those things that's, you know, very highly commended by wine spectator. It's an important must read book, on every wine list. So, how did you discover these women? You were out there and, you know, on your work trip, what, you know, you found them? How did you how did you meet up with them? How did they arrive in your life? Well, it actually was during a a lunch that I was having at at Musards Grill in Knoxville with Karen Kate Fred. And, she was she just was gracious to meet with me. We had a mutual friend in common that, made the introduction, said I was coming out there. Would you be able to meet? And it was during that lunch, that we just got talking, and she just started sharing, stories with me about women in the Napa Valley that, were very iconic in trailblazers that I had not heard of And yet I was drinking a lot of the wine that they were making or or, wineries that they owned. But, you know, Cindy, this was twenty years ago, because it's twenty twenty four. So I really started the research for the book in two thousand and four, started writing really in two thousand five. So, I can't believe how long it's been, but, when I came back to my home in New York, I started digging, and it was really hard to find, a lot about the the trailblazers. Being the fact that I did start a nap in Sonoma, I did, focus primarily in California in the trailblazers. But then after writing the book and coming out, I met amazing women from all over the world, and they were a reach reaching out saying, I'm a woman of the vine. My mom's a woman of the vine, my sister. And the storytelling just kept growing and growing. At that time, I was completely bitten by the wine bug. I didn't wanna go back to my tech job. And so that's, I took a big leap of faith and reinvented myself, and got involved in the wine industry. Well, I think we must be about the same age. And I I remember starting my wine career around the same time and finding that everything was male dominated, you know, trying to take wine classes and trying to do things like that, was completely male dominated. So It's so interesting that you went forward with this and and made the book, and eventually you even started a wine brand based around the seven female artisan producers in California. So you know, how did you select the producers? What was the reaction of consumers? You know, where did you what did you take away from this project of, you know, creating a wine brand? Well, you know, I had a background in marketing PR and business development in the tech side. And when I started meeting, the women and hearing their stories and the challenges that they went through. Even, you know, back then, even to the fact that there were winemakers that were, you know, consistently scoring ninety two points and up all the time vintage after vintage, but the board or the owners did not want the public to know there was a woman making the line because they didn't think that that men would wanna buy it. I mean, this these were true things going on, at this time. And, I just thought how can I help them? How can I use some of my skills And besides just the book, which I did go out and do tons of book signings and book talks, and I invited women that weren't in the book to join me so we could share their stories because they were women of the vine? And, but I was like, how can I help you? And, we decided that we would make this collective, kind of like a an artisan collective under one label, to try to raise the awareness of the accomplishments of women, throughout the world in the wine industry. But I will say that this was before direct to consumer sales. It was early to market because even when I wrote the book, magazines, newspapers, podcasts, things, they weren't talking about women in wine. So, I'd like to say, you know, as an entrepreneur, I was a little bit too early to market. But I did it for seven years and learned the industry inside and out from everything from working with the producers as they were creating the line out in the vineyards, to having how to figure out how to get UPC codes and labels and shipping and warehousing and just distribution and sales and on premise off premise. So, and I met incredible people, from around the world, throughout that entire process. But at the end of the day, I realized that what I wanted to do to advocate for empowering and advancing women, wasn't gonna work in a bottle of wine. And so I was at the drawing board again. Well, and a great drawing board it was because in two thousand and fifty, and you founded the women of the Vine and spirits, and you started off with a Symposium and a networking event that just completely sold out. So What happened at the first symposium? And how did that event morph into this amazing organization that exists now? How many how many members do you have around the world now? Do you know? We have over a hundred and seventy one corporate members that are, you know, supporting our collective mission and about over eleven thousand, you know, individual members. So it's it's really a a growing growing community, and we welcome everyone, into the into our community. From day one, after dissolving the wine company and, not knowing what I was gonna do, but I have to say it was the women that I met along the way that would tell me their stories and their challenges and their hardships and their struggles And they they really said I'm a woman of the vine, and I realized at that time, you know, maybe we should get together as a collective voice. And from day one, as I was organizing the first symposium, I thought it would just be a one off event. And, and I purposely intentionally invited senior male executives to join us. It was very, very important because women had been talking to one another for years and years and years, but we needed the men, the decision makers, to come and to see what it was like being, a minority in, in the group. The men that came to the first symposium in March twenty fifteen, I mean, I could count them maybe, you know, on both hands, and they were so outnumbered. And they felt like I they would come up to me and go, oh my gosh. Is this what it feels like when you come to our events? And I'm like, absolutely. Absolutely. That, you know, you now you're experiencing what it feels like to be the only. And I think that was a wake up call. And after this symposium, again, I thought maybe two hundred and fifty people, maybe a responses. We doubled in size. We sold out, and it was so clear that, the women wanted a forum and an organization or a community keep this going to keep the advocating for this. At the time, you know, we're talking about next year will be our tenth year. Just ten years ago, it was very difficult to find women in senior leadership positions, and in the c suite. And today, we are seeing progress. So I knew, we had to keep going. It couldn't just be a one off event. And so that summer, I taught myself some software platforms. And, in September, we officially launched as a global, membership organization for corporate and individual members. Well, it's so interesting what you said about, men discovering what it feels like to be the only because I'm sure you and I both, in the early stages of our career, often were the only woman or one of very few in a room full of men in the wine industry. So I'm very interested in male allyship in in the wine industry. So I just wanna know sort of what how do you see the role of men as allies in our industry? You know, what could improve? And how can we support men to make the necessary changes that need to be made? I think the biggest thing well, now in its I wanna say maybe it's fourth year. Women of the writing spirit started a live chat series, which we do on Zoom, and they're interactive with Q and A. And I actually interview male CEOs in the beverage out industry. And that has been amazing. Amazing and so well attended. I think the biggest thing for male alignship was having a frank conversation with them. A lot of the men that are sitting in decision making positions, they have daughters. They are proud of what their wives are doing. They're proud of their moms. I think that was the biggest thing was to to really start talking at a very personal level and realizing that they we're in a position of power to help us make change. And that is where I feel my, you know, the culture I wanted to create within the community globally of women of the mountain spirits was always about inclusivity of all. And I think by embracing the men and having these very open frank, you know, unscripted dialogues, really got them to to look at things in a very different perspective than just a balance sheet or a P and L, but really, from from a personal standpoint. And then pointing out that when men and women work together and we embrace our differences as being our super powers, that's where the magic happens. That's why the bottom line is better when you have you know, more equity within your teams? I think that's such a valid point. I think it's so important for people to understand that, you know, this can't this can't work unless we figure out how to combine and harness all the powers that that everyone in the wine industry has. So I love what you're doing, and I like the fact that you're giving these, you know, men who are in positions of power, men who are CEOs in our industry the opportunity to you know, be interviewed, interact with people, get, you know, get their voice heard, hear other people's voices. It's a very, very important job that you're doing. So, I wanna ask you also about, you know, you said you've got over a hundred and seventy one corporate members, which is a hefty amount of support. So how are you developing the kind of partnerships you want for the organization? Where are you looking for corporate sponsorship and corporate partners? We We are looking everywhere. And from day one, it was about bringing in all industry sectors across all three tiers across the supply chain. I truly believe that, you know, a tide rises all boats. And in order to systemically change an industry, we need to do it altogether. So I'm very, very proud that our corporate members, encompass trucking companies, cooperaches, marketing, law firms, packaging, design, glassware, importers, exporters, shipping companies, wholesalers, suppliers, education, universities. That I think has been the real change maker is that we're having these dialogues across the entire supply chain globally. And that way, you know, it's not just one part, like, just you know, winemaking or just distilling or just, you know, the makers, but it's it's everybody. And so these senior executives are across the entire supply chain because as you know, it takes a heck of a lot of people to produce one bottle of wine from the ground to getting on the shelf and, you know, producing spirits and beer and everything else, mixers, not out. And I think that's been really the most amazing thing. So we we've really pride ourselves on bringing the entire, community together, It also allows for people to learn about career pathing. People looking for what else is available in the industry. People don't realize they can talk to law firms, but what it also does is the networking and the power of sharing knowledge. We have our law firms that come on and talk about legal issues that are happening in our industry and lending their expertise, and we have people talking about shipping supply chain issues and trucking issues and packaging and marketing. So, networking is the number one, thing really is the power of of our community elevating everybody and celebrating the women getting promoted and advancing is a huge part of our other series, which is the c suite insights where we interview women in senior leader positions because they're role models. If you can't see it, you can't be it. So we do a lot, education, resources, job boards, and a lot of, live interactive, sessions? It's it's just incredible what you've created in, you know, such a short time. Only ten years, not even. It's only nine years this year. But I, you know, harking back to the beginnings of our careers, When I first got interested in wine, I was in university in the States, you know, I was nineteen, but I never thought that it could be a career. That just never occurred to me. You know, it was either you could be a sommelier, but I didn't wanna do that particularly. And I had no idea what other careers there were in wine until far, far later. If somebody had been able to, you know, give me that information when I was nineteen, I suspect my life would be quite different. So I I'm with you. I never I mean, I would enjoy it. I was an enthusiast, but I had no idea. And I think that's why we're also proud of bringing on university and college where we actually get the students, complimentary membership to women in the vine and spirits as part of the university or college coming on board. So they're learning about the industry from industry professionals. While they're still studying. I think that that's really exciting for us. And, I think for the young male students, they're sitting in on our breaking barriers series with the male executives. And I think we're also, they're seeing what male allyship really looks like. So I I think, you know, the work that we're doing, And then you've said, how do we bring in the corporate members? We have multiple levels from associate to diamond. We really we really ask for our corporate members. We don't have parameters for every level. Because we wanna be inclusive for all their employees, but we find that our corporate members that have a very, dedicated and commitment to advancing women and gender diversity, do come in at higher levels because they also know that they're paying it forward for the organization so that all levels could be supported because not everybody has the same budgets. And I think that's really important that we really look for the bigger companies to come on, take a big step so that all the smaller winemies, distilleries, breweries, and companies, and entrepreneurs, and everybody else can also benefit from the work that we're doing. It's yeah. That's fantastic. And I think that that level of, you know, understanding about not everyone in the wine industry is created equal or has, you know, the finances available to them that they might like to have is important because it is another means of exclusion. You know, wine courses are expensive, wine membership is expensive, you know, becoming a corporate partner is expensive. So having the opportunity to join your corporate partnership program at different levels of cost to the company is crucial to getting more companies involved. So, it's interesting because you you've mentioned education a couple of times, and I know In two thousand and seventeen, you launched the Women of the Vine Spirit, foundation to further education and increase opportunities for women to excel in the beverage industry. And now it's been seven years since the foundation began. So I just wanted to ask you how it's going and how many scholarships have been awarded and what a typical recipient of your scholarships look like. You know, do do you track their career paths after they, you know, receive their scholarships and do their studying, what's happening with this program? Because again, as I said, this is a very key component to keeping the wine industry alive and vibrant and getting young people involved because it's expensive to get involved. Absolutely. And, Cindy, you you you really hit the nail on the head of when you say about, you know, the furthering the education, if our mission is to advance and empower women, Education I always say isn't just about gaining knowledge. It's about gaining confidence. And, you know, studies have proven that when people are knowledgeable and they're educated about certain subjects, They are more confident to get out there. And we also know in a traditionally male dominated industry, as women, we often have to prove ourselves even more so that we're knowledgeable in the subject of wine, spirits, beer, or anything else in the industry. So the foundation, started two years after the first symposium, and it really was to look at the the e in equity. Right? And and to your point, there's amazing, talented people out there, but not everybody has the financial, you know, capabilities to be able to have continuing at professional education, to be able to, you know, support some of the the coursework and the certifications. So this, really, the foundation was born to be able to provide that equity to those, that needed it. Because like you said, it is expensive. And, every year, we are seeking more and more donors so the first year, believe it or not, we only gave out four, scholarships because I only had one major donor and then had to keep building it as as we went, we also do apply for grants. Last year, we did get a grant from the Gerard BassIT Association. We just reapplied, again, just last week. And we do, we're very grateful for, gallo for being a patron level donor, which is the highest level donor, for many years. So in we have, we provide annual scholarships in eight different categories. Since two thousand seventeen, and we are just in the judging right now for twenty twenty four. So we haven't awarded twenty twenty four yet. Scholarships are still open till the end of July, so anybody listening can still apply. But we have awarded seven hundred and eighty five thousand seven hundred and fifty five dollars worth of scholarships since two thousand seventeen. And we have given three hundred and eight individual, recipients in seventy different countries. And that's thanks to the generosity, thirty two donor companies. Wow. That's amazing. Yeah. It's So almost eight hundred thousand dollars, three hundred and eight individuals in seventy different countries. And we are in the judging stages right now. And we have judges on our foundation committee which comprise of twenty five industry, professionals in all different walks of the industry that volunteer, and so what does a typical applicant look like? They're every type of applicant. Seventy different countries. Those are the awards, but we get over three hundred applicants, a year. And, everything from WSTT level one to ten thousand dollars for master of wine. And, you know, it's now ten thousand dollars to get your level four WSTT diploma. So, we're very proud, including other scholarships for professional development continuing ed at university. We give money for that and money for people pursuing other certifications, beer certifications, spirits, wines, and, you know, even for professionals that are going in different avenues within the wine industry. And and And do do you track them at all? Do you see what the scholarship does to their career after they've after they've studied? Do they get back to you and and tell you what they do next? Yes. So we we have a virtual ceremony every year where we bring the current recipients to award them, and we give them an opportunity like to provide a little testimonial and come on board, and we're all live. So we have people from all over the world. We've done the ceremony where we have people sitting in New Zealand and France and Portugal and, and different parts of the US, And then we gift them with a membership for the year for women of the Biden spirits. So they also are getting all of the work that we're doing within women of the Biden spirits and all of the sources and live events and chats and virtual. And we actually have a, a group, a discussion group for every cohort. So we have the class twenty seventeen, the class of twenty eighteen, the class of twenty nineteen, and that's how we stay in touch, with with each of our cohorts every year. And, and often help them find mentors. A lot of times, they'll come to us and say, I wanna study something more about sustainability and biodynamic, and we'll help introduce them to other members that, you know, have expertise in that field And, sometimes they just have some questions they wanna ask. So it's it's so, fulfilling to see, and they're not just young students. We have people of all ages that are looking to further their careers, and we have people looking to reinvent, like I did, and change careers. Yeah. And I think I think we all learned, you know, some good things came out of COVID. We all learned that you know, pivoting and and being agile and, you know, taking an opportunity to change things when it arises can be so beneficial to everyone's life. So it's just great that you're giving people this opportunity and supporting them. It's one thing to give people, you know, say, here's a money go study, but to support them, and and have these sorts of discussion groups and and mentorships and the ability to get back to you and say, help. I need, you know, I need some support here. I think that goes much farther towards furthering education, you know, than just the money itself. Wine studying can be quite lonely. So, being able to stay in touch with women of the Vine spirits after you've gotten a grant or a scholarship is just amazing and will undoubtedly further their careers. I and absolutely. And I think it's so amazing when we do the virtual ceremony on Zoom, and we're all lives who are seeing each other and hearing. They often find each other sharing in studies, and they'll exchange, you know, their emails to stay in touch. So it's it's really, beautiful, and we invite past recipients to come to every one of our ceremonies to meet the new recipients. So it's a real kind of holistic, cycle to to see as they, are entering into programs and then what they're doing afterwards. And we we have also, received, applications from people that completed certain studies and now are going on and asking for financial support for their next diploma. So that's also we encourage that as well. And we do offer not just the Gallos Scholarships and and the women of the mind, but we also, support the Discus leadership academy for their executive leadership program and developing leader program. Those are eight month programs, that, teams are going through, and we provided three to five scholarships a year, for the leadership academy as well? Well, it really plays into what you said earlier in our conversation about networking being the power of your community. You know, you're you're creating a community that is, you know, mutually beneficial to everyone involved. And that's that's something that is just, you know, worth more than you can ever put a dollar figure on. So, I just I will yay. And especially now, the wine industry is is going through some very challenging and changing times. And I always believe, you know, that during challenging times, we have to lean into our community because that's where we're gonna find the best solutions. That's the diversity in thought. And so that's when I really encourage people to lean in You know, I say women of the uninsured's membership. It's like a gym membership. You know, I have the best intention of wanting to get in shape, lose weight, get healthy. But if I don't go to the gym, which I'm very guilty of not going, But if I don't go to the gym, I'm not gonna get the results. So Isaiah people, you know, when you become a part of women with mountain spirits as a corporate member, an employer, an individual, you know, please, take a look at all that we're offering and take advantage of it because it really does, make a huge difference. It's best to bring. Absolutely. I I could not agree more. And and I know you've launched more things, you know, just last year, you launched the diverse power brands. So tell us about this. This is a b to b, digital project. So what prompted this idea and and what's going on with that? Well, you know, as an entrepreneur and looking at things that I feel, you know, either there's a void or there's a problem that needs to be solved, in all the work that I've been doing with women with blind and spirits now, you know, for the last nine years is seeing how frustrated the women owned companies, women made, you know, brands in line, beer, spirits, and all, you know, different categories that they were very frustrated that there are major corporations that, that basically talk about their supplier diversity programs, their goals and their spend, but that money wasn't going to women owned and women made companies in beverage alcohol. And if they were sharing with me, like, I keep going and applying in these, you know, all these major companies, grocery stores around the world. Let's say they have supplier diversity programs. Hotels, airlines, venues, casinos, you know, just everywhere you turn, and they're saying, you know, retail, they they put in their annual reports, their ESG, how much money they're spending on diversifiers, but we're not included. And so I realized that the buyers and supplier diversity were saying we can't we're not sure how to find these people in beverage alcohol. And they're so busy. So I decided that I needed to self fund And it's a completely separate self funded company, separate from women with bonding spirits. I hired systems architect. I I took it upon myself, and, you know, my tech background I knew we could do this on a digital platform globally. And so I hired systems architects and developers. And with my tech background, explained to them what we wanted to achieve. Purposely made it a b to b because of the three tier system wanting to empower wholesalers and empower buyers. So it's not open to consumers, but it is free for buyers anywhere in the world. And importers, wholesalers, and we now even brought on two investment companies. So investors are looking for the next Bevowk brands that they may wanna invest in. So we're really, really proud of working with Pronghorn, on Black owned spirits. We're working with distill ventures, which are incubating and investing. I've been speaking to other investors. So we're working and integrated with R and D. C. And Liptib here in the US, but we just actually entered an agreement with We Connect International, which is the international certifying body for women owned businesses because in America, this third party certifying bodies for diversity or women, you must be a US citizen. But with We Connect International, they certify in sixty countries. So we are just getting that off the ground now, and we empower suppliers to own their brand narrative in this centralized global digital catalog for their companies and their brands. That's incredible. I I had no idea that, an international body was was certifying as well. So it's fantastic that you've tapped into that and created basically, you know, a database that that buyers and, you know, can can use as an actual tool. So, how's the feedback then? Well, we I launched the company, in March no. Sorry. April twenty twenty three. So it's just over a year. Launched it at the wine inspired wholesalers of America trade show conference. And that was April, June. We did our first in person pitch day in Minneapolis at Target. With the four wine buyers. And so the wine buyers tested because they gave us feedback and were working with us during the data stage. I was working with Costco, Target, Walmart, Royal Caribbean, we are working with r and d c breakthrough, Martinetti, and wholesalers. And, you know, really, just recently having conversations in the UK with the inclusive hospitality, with Lorraine's group and things. So from that, Target, the four Y Myers, they logged into diverse power brands, and they spent two weeks exploring, and we have beautiful brand stories that the suppliers get to control and own for twenty fourseven, three sixty five. It's it's their stories, their videos, their photos. It's a hugely affordable marketing tool for digital assets. And out of the two weeks that they went through and explored, they came to us with a list of thirteen companies to come to Minneapolis with us. And, out of the thirteen, they got to pitch. So the founders, and and the the brand owners all came. I also invited, the three top wholesalers. So we had Southern Johnson Brothers and, RNDC in the US with us at Target. And Target selected seven of them that went into their spring set this February. Some went into one store, some went in twelve. Two of them went in twenty nine stores. And now from that one case study, we're out talking to more and more, more, major corporations as well as independent mom and pop, buyers. We want buyers from everywhere in the world, to come and access this for free and encourage suppliers to get discovered. By getting your company, your brands, subscribed to it's an annual subscription fee, and it's it's extremely affordable. That is amazing. As I said, it's a it's a usable tool. It's something that, you know, there's a call to action and it is actionable once you have joined it. It's definitely going to benefit you. So, what an amazing thing to have created and and to have that success, you know, within the space of the first year. I'm gonna keep my eye on this because I can't wait to see what happens. Yeah. We're really, really excited about it because, you know, I guess it's kinda like when buyers and wholesalers kept saying, you know, we we don't know how to find them. I was like, okay. Well, now you know how to find them. Only one place. Super easy, and you could search by intersectionality. So, you know, you go into some e commerce sites, and it says black owned women owned. It says, you know, veteran owned. I'm like, excuse me, women of the binding spirits. We talk about intersectionality. I could be all three. You know? So lgbtqi plus, women, Hispanic, API. We really are excited that we're the only system that you can actually search by intersectionality. You also could search by variety, by category, wine, beer spirits, non alc, mixers, water we we, you know, anybody that qualifies and all in our FAQs has all of the qualifying, everything is standardized. And the most important thing is that The suppliers are, self declaring and have the way to prove that they are a diverse powered brand. So that's very, very important because there are some e commerce that claims that certain brands may be women owned are black owned, but but they're really not. And so we monitor everything. And legal documents are signed and certification if they have it, though, those badges get put on it. So, really, a very important trusted resource, for on and off premise around the world. It's it is amazing. It's just incredible. I can't wait to see how that grows because there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that it will. It's something that people really need, and you've addressed it. So you know, you're clearly on this DEAI mission, you know, which really resonates with me, but obviously, that's why your own voice is with me today. But I just wanna ask you to, where will the next five years take you? You know, what have you got in mind for the future? What are the next projects because I don't, don't seem to think that you're one of these people who sits around and rests on your laurels. You know, I think it's because it's the world is is changing. And We have to stay relevant and change with it, but we have to keep looking at the barriers for advancing and empowering women for gender diversity. You know, what's going on in the world is, in a lot of places, we're slipping back in women's rights. I never thought in my lifetime that, you know, my age at fifty eight that I would be looking at things going backwards, you know, from the the women around the world, you know, we celebrate women in the mind and spirits. Of course, we celebrate women's history month. We celebrate international women's day. We wanna honor the trailblazers that allow me to be doing what I'm doing today. And so I think, you know, one of the scary things is that right now politically being weaponized and people are changing course on their commitments to de and I, their commitments to gender diversity, their commitments to advancing women. This is a time as our corporate members know. This is not a time to turn back. This is a time to double down. This is the time to show your employees, your potential employees, and the industry at large, that this is the human capital. This is the people that are you know, making the business. And, and being making sure that you're supporting them, but also in the most challenging economic times, this is where diversity of thought the winners in going through these challenging times will be because they lean into the people within their organization and were thinking outside of the box And the only way you're gonna do that is to embrace everybody and all of their superpowers and their diversities to look at solutions during these these times. So I think, you know, we invite for more corporate members because the work that we do has to be funded, and we're a small team. One of the things that we just launched in March that we brought on sponsors, and we're so thrilled to see DiscUS WN and R and D. C. And Brown Foreman and Pernod Ricard, we just launched for free, a dedicated website for hospitality and industry Bev Out professionals No matter where they are in the world, it is free called eighty six harassment. The website is eighty six harassment dot com, and it is a groundbreaking initiative addressing sexual harassment in the Bev Alcon Hospital industry. And every resource on there and every one of our training sessions are free for anybody to take no questions asked and that the training is focused on creating a safer community by teaching how to create boundaries and bystander intervention. So incredibly important. If we wanna attract the best talent, if we wanna retain the best talent, if we want people to bring their full authentic selves to work, we have to address the sexual harassment, and the reputation in Bev elk and hospitality needs to change. So not only are the postcards, the social media, the posters, and the training free, and the resources and articles But we also have a twenty four seven dedicated hotline in English and Spanish, which is run by the largest sexual, nonviolent organization in the United States called Rain. And you can find that all on eighty six harassment. And, you know, thank you to our sponsors for helping us be able to, you know, pay these organizations to calm and and do these training that we can offer it for free for anyone? That is incredible. And it's it's, ironic that you brought that up because I was just reading about it this morning and didn't want to muddy the waters of our conversation, but you have put it in such great context of of what you're doing and what you're planning for the future. And I I think that's just gonna be an invaluable resource. Not everybody feels that they can you know, speak out, having a hotline they can call is is a great way to start and to support people. So you so much of what you're doing is so supportive in so many ways, you know, not just money not just symposiums, but all these other ways as well. There's a real ethos of creating a supportive successful environment that people will want to be part of, and that's how you build community. So I don't think that I could possibly say anything more that would end this interview in a more positive way, than the eighty six harassment program. I think it's amazing. And again, you know, just like the, you know, the new database for buyers to find women owned companies and, you know, being able to search intersectionality. I think this eighty six harassment program is gonna be, you know, something so valuable. We probably can't even imagine how much good it will do. So Thank you for getting it out there in the world, and I'm just so grateful to speak to you today. Thank you so much, Deborah. Thank you. Thank you for having me on voices. Thank you for giving meet the opportunity and to represent all of our corporate members and individual members that are supporting our mission, to really make a better industry for everyone because at the end of the day, We all love this industry. We're passionate about the industry. It's why we work so hard in the industry, and we welcome everyone to come and join in the community and be a part of this movement with us, because next year we'll be celebrating our a decade of of progress, but we have a lot more work to do. That's that is true words. That is definitely true words. So, All our listeners, please go and check out women of the Vine spirit's website, get involved, and thank you so much for uplifting us today, Deborah. I really appreciate it. Thank you for having me here. Thank you for listening. And remember to tune in next Wednesday when I'll be chatting with another fascinating guest. 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