Ep. 843 Theodora Lee | Voices With Cynthia Chaplin

Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. I'm Cynthia Chaaplin, and this is voices. Every Wednesday, I will be sharing conversations with international wine industry professionals discussing issues in diversity, equity, and inclusion through their personal experiences, working in the field of wine. If you enjoy the show, please subscribe and rate our show wherever you get your pods. Welcome to voices, everyone. I'm Cynthia Chaplin, and today I'm very happy to have Theodore Lee with me. She's a trial lawyer and a partner in San Francisco law firm of Hitler, and she founded her own vineyard, Theoopolis vineyards in two thousand and three after catching the wine bug from her law firm mentors. So since then, she's had some rocketing success with Robert Parker giving her top star ratings of between ninety four and ninety six points. She's having awards and medals continuing to roll in for her wines. And in September twenty sixteen, some journal listed Diopolis Vineyard's estate grown petite Sarah as best in class. So I'm very happy to talk to Theodore today and hear her story. Welcome to the show. Thank you so much for coming. Cynthia, it is my pleasure to be here. Oh, that's very kind. Well, I am so interested in hearing about your path to wine. I mean, it's not sort of immediately obvious how you got into having a vineyard and award winning wines. You were just chatting with me a little bit about the fact that you grew up in Texas and you went into law there must have been a lot of obstacles along the way for you. You know, it can't have been that easy of an entry into the law world as a young black woman from the south. How how was that in terms of shaping your future path. And, you know, has have you seen some changes in what you confronted compared to what young students are confronting nowadays? Well, I graduated from law school in the eighties. At that time, there were not that many African American women in law firms. And, I applied for a number of jobs. I went to the University of Texas at Austin, They gave me a full ride scholarship, although I had to pay for room and board. So my father paid for the first year, and I worked the second and third year because he only promised to pay for my education for five years thinking maybe it would take me five years to get through college, but I got through college in the regular four. And I said, well, you promised me five years. So you you're definitely gotta pay for the first year of law school, but I had scholarships and college and a full ride at UT. And I graduated, and I applied for a number of, jobs in Texas and in Atlanta where I had gone to school at Spellman College. I got none of those jobs. That I applied for, but I got offers in Chicago, Los Angeles, and San Francisco. Those are big cities that offered more opportunity to people of color. And I was fortunate to join Littler back in the eighties. And I'm one of the few people that have been at the same firm for ninety percent of my legal career. I left as a fifth year associate, to start the Labor Employment Practice practice at a general practice firm in Oakland. And shortly after I left, Littler said, why did you leave? I took a few of West Fastives clients. And, I said, I think there's a market in Oakland. And he said, well, let's just open an office in Oakland. So I came back a year and a half later as a partner and the managing partner of the Oakland office for Littler, ran that for ten years. And as we grew globally, we have offices in in Italy, at all throughout Europe and the rest of the world, I came back and I've been at the firm and a partner there now for twenty seven years. Wow. That's incredible. Congratulations. That is some, you know, truce stick to itiveness, obviously, and carving out your own path to leadership is definitely the way to go. I I love that story. But it still doesn't really point to how you ended up having a vineyard. How did that happen? Well, I go back to the eighties. Back in the time I was an associate at Littler, there were several partners who had Vineyards in Napa and Sonoma. I don't know how it was in Italy, but we didn't have fax machines and emails and WiFi and all these electronic means and communications back in the eighties. So if you were working on a brief and the partner was at their weekend home at their vineyard in Napa, Sonoma, you got in your car, you drove that brief to their home. They read the brief, marked it up, it did whatever edits they needed to get the brief prepared for filing on Monday morning, And Barbara Diadone, who was one of my law firm mentors, she and her husband Pierre, actually had a beautiful vineyard in Hillsburg. And so they would often ask me to stay for dinner. And they would offer me wine. And I'm being a country girl from Texas. I was like, no, give me some Jack Daniels or some wild turkey. I don't drink wine. And and they said, well, why don't you drink wine? And I told them the story that my father who was a school principal and bought ten acres of land when I was a small kid used to take wild muscadine, and that's a grape that grows wild in the south and in Texas. And he would make home brew wine from Muscadine. And, you know, as a precocious little kid, you would go and you'd see your parents, you know, having parties and drinking, And so I went into the liquor cabinet, and I pulled out that home brew, and I tasted that muscadine wine, that sweet and syrupy wine was so nasty. I said I will never drink wine because I thought that was wide. You know, you you learn from your parents. And so I told that story to Barbara Adone, and she said, that's not wine. We bottle fine wine. So she introduced me to fine wine. Initially, I was like, oh my god, this is bitter. Eventually, I developed a taste first for the traditional California buttery and oak chardonnay. Then I graduated to Zinfandel and and Kabernet because they also grew that. But more than anything, it was not the taste of wine that drove me to, what to have a vineyard. It was that her husband Pierre used to let me drive the tractor. Oh, yes. In the vineyard. Oh, yes. And and growing up in Texas, I learned to drive on a tractor at the age of eight. Okay? And that experience with Pierre letting me drive the tractor in the vineyard said, my god, that could be a great former. My father was a cattle farmer, and I did post hole digging and built barns and learn to shoot guns and all of that because I was the only child. So I was my father's son and my mother's daughter. I was a debut Todd, with I did ballet, So by being out on that tractor in that vineyard, I said, I want to own my vineyard one day. Well, you know, Larry is not cheap in California. Definitely not. And so it cooked me until two thousand one to buy twenty acres of land in the Yorkville highlands of Anderson Valley, Mendelcino County. You also picked a good spot. Let's be fair. That's a good place for a vineyard. Well, you know, I I I have to tell you this. I only knew about Sonoma and Napa at the time, but as a single woman and a labor employment lawyer, I mean, I love what I do in law. Because it's about sex drugs and rock and roll. But we are not the highest paid lawyers in the world. And as it it Atlanta is expensive. I couldn't afford Napa a snowmer, but I am so thankful that I bought in the Yorkville highlights of Anderson Valley because it still has the pristine growing conditions that Napa had ages ago. We don't have the congestion and all of those factors We are one of the most natural counties in the world for growing grapes. Absolutely. Absolutely. What an amazing time to get in, pretty much before the whole Anderson Valley was really discovered for how great it is. So you were in at the at the beginning in the early two thousands. Absolutely. It it it it was my pleasure, to actually do the the five zero one c six, the association nonprofit for the Yorkville Highlands Appalachian. And we are a separate Appalachian from Anderson Valley, but we are the Highlands of Anderson Valley. So our vineyards are not in the valley. They're hillside. It actually I have to tell you I have terraces, and the first time that I saw terrace vineyards was in Italy. Oh, wonderful. Wonderful. Well, I I live just outside of Verona, and so terraces are my thing all around. And we see them in a lot of places. So you're doing you're doing things on terraces. So that is a lot of manual work. There's not a lot of mechanization you can do there. Well, that's why we say we are handcrafted because we do handpick the grapes and You know, the farming aspect of the wine business was my love. I I mean, I love being on the tractor. I love plowing the land. I love pruning the vines. I love, you know, weed eating. Tying the shoots up to t posts, fruit thinning, and even picking the grapes are fun. I I have to agree with you. I like the actual agricultural side of of the wine business myself My husband grew up on a farm. There's something to be said for a man with a tractor. Absolutely. So, yeah, I like the agriculture side. Well, I'm a girl with a tractor. Well, I have to tell you a funny story. My father is a traditional Texan And so my, first tractor was a kebab kubota, you know, j Japanese because they're small. They're really made to go through the vineyards. He says, I did not raise a daughter to buy foreign products. I had to get a John deer. Oh my goodness. But now I have two track. One that you can only use at night. Yeah. Well, unfortunately, he passed in two thousand, sixteen, but he was a character. Sounds like it. Sounds like it. Well, I actually love the name of your vineyard, which I've been, keeping on the low until this point in our chat, which is Theopolis vineyards. So how did you come up with this name? I think it's magic. Well, Theophilus was my Greek name when I pledged my sorority delta sigma theta, ADA CAPPA chapter in S at Feldman College. So my god given name is Theodora, and my big sisters who pledged me gave me the name theophilus. And so that is why I named my Vineyard Theophilus because, you know, a lot of vineyard to name, like Lee Family, sellers, or Brown estate, but Unfortunately, it's just me. So I don't know that one creates a family. So, I wanted something that was unique to me that would stand out and theophilus seem appropriate. And so that's why I named the vineyard, Theophilus vineyards. It goes back to Greece, and they had vineyards there long ago. And then, I am on my tractor, and I sometimes have Texas bit hair. And so, Diane Carroll, who was an actor who passed a couple years ago, I got to entertain her at theophilus vineyards, along with her god daughter who was working on a project with me, and they saw me on the tractor, and they dubbed me, Theo Patra, queen of the vineyards, because everyone calls me Theo. Okay? And so, I hosted a dinner for them, and my neighbor who was a graphic artist, that was before I started bottling wine, you know, hurt them, call me the Apache. Well, fast forward to twenty twelve when I was forced to bottle wine. Okay? I didn't plan on bottling wine. I just wanted to be a great former on my tractor selling the grapes to, you know, other, award winning wineries, and I did that for the period two thousand six until twenty twelve. And in twenty twelve, an ill time rain fell, I had to pick in the rain. I picked my grapes at twenty three bricks. I delivered those grapes to the buyer. They rejected the grapes because the contract required that they be a twenty five bricks. That's the sugar level. Of course. So they rejected the entire lot. So I had to custom crush because they were already picked, but I didn't have enough money because I lost my shirt in real estate doing our great recession of twenty two thousand eight. So I bought it to get that twenty twelve vintage produced. I had a year and a half or two years to raise money for the bottles, the caps, and so on. And I was happy to say that that twenty twelve vintage was bottled in twenty fourteen, and it won gold at sunset magazine. Exactly. That's incredible. And it what a save because not all of our listeners will understand how difficult it is to to make that save after you've already picked the grapes. There's nothing more you can do. Absolutely. And so, you know, at that time, I was forced to bottle, and god has a plan for us all. And I guess his plan was for me to actually bottle wide. And so going back to the name, I wasn't thinking of, you know, a, a logo or anything like that. But when I was forced to follow the wine back in on the twenty twelve vintage in twenty fourteen, my neighbor who had been at the dinner, where I had been dubbed, Theo Patra, queen of the vineyards, remember that because I forgot. Okay. You know, Hollywood types are there. They're gone. I'm, you know, dealing with, you know, trying to figure out how to make wine when I had had no idea of doing so. I had to take some courses at Davis on managing a vineyard and a small winery, but he was commissioned to come up with a label for me. He came up with three ideas. One of which was the image of Cleopatra for representing Theo Patra. And I loved it, but the first take was, you know, a skinny woman like Cleopatra. So I said, I love the idea, but you need to go back and add some hips and some thighs, because I am a full body robeest woman. And if it's gonna be Theoopatra, it has to reflect who I am, and that's how we got the label. So, you know, you got the Greek and Egyptian all in my name of the vineyard, theophilus, the Apache as the label. And it's it's very interesting. I was in, Egypt. Oh, oh, actually six years ago, about this time, And it was great. I took a picture, on the throne, with my bottles wide. And I I said, I'm I'm dethroning Cleopatra and becoming Theopatra, but very much like Cleopatra. She was actually from Greece, and she went into Egypt and ruled. And here I am a little black girl trying to make it in the Y visit. I absolutely love it. And I hope everybody who's listening will go on your web site because the labels are fantastic. They really sort of evoke the whole antiquity, but they have your stamp on it for sure. You said your dad was a character. I think he raised a character himself. They're they're brilliant labels. Oh, they call us Pete at repeat. I love it. I love it. Well, you were talking about the the freak rainstorms that you had. I'm wondering, have you been affected at all by all the recent fires over the past few growing seasons? How are you adapting your vineyard and your cellar? Well, let's put it this way. I think that I have not been affected or impacted negatively by the fires. The fires have come within fifteen miles of Theo's vineyards. I mean, and it's been three years. Twenty twenty one was the only time that we didn't have a threat, in the last five years. But fortunately, I have not had smoke tank, and I have not had fires to the vineyard. And I'm just lucky because a Patites arrived vineyard across the road from me in twenty twenty, they were had to leave their fruit on the vines because of smoke. Yeah. It's so depressing. It's it's just tragic to hear those stories. I'm glad it hasn't affected you, and I I hope you keep on with your good fortune in theophilus vineyards, especially because, you know, you're being so successful there and wine enthusiasts consistently awards your wines, you know, really high ratings just like, Parker is. And in twenty twenty, you were recognized as wine industry leader by business wine business monthly. So how's all this success coming towards you? How's this either helping or hindering your goals for the vineyard? You know, can you leverage your recognition to do some good in the industry? I think I have been able to do so. For example, in twenty twenty one, I was a wine enthusiast person of the year nominee. I did not win. It went to someone that is far more successful in the wine business than I, but it was an honor to be recognized. And one of the things that I have done to leverage this recognition is to try to diversify the wine business. I actually started last year a diversity fund at the University of California Davis. We have seen a lot of, activity following the, you know, George Floyd incident and the Black Lives Matter Movement. And there has been a conscious effort to diversify the wine business. And most much of that effort has been with wine educators, sommeliers, you know, people on the other side of the wine business. Not so much of a focus on the vinticulture, those who manage the vines, those who actually make the wine, who go through inology. And so with Davis being the number one school for that, I thought establishing the theophilus vineyards diversity fund would actually encourage more people of color to go into the farming and the production and the winemaking aspect. And I am happy to say that we had our first awardee at the end of last year, and I'm looking forward to meeting her and talking to her. And she sent me a thank you note, and she is going to graduate and continue her studies. And so that to me has been one of the ways that I've leveraged the recognition to better the industry. You know, obviously, the recognition from wine enthusiasts on the awards, in fact, at at in in December of twenty twenty one, our twenty eighteen Petiturah was ranked number sixteen of the top one hundred seller selections by wine enthusiasts. And so that has helped sales. I mean, we have actually been able to grow our business almost double between twenty nineteen and twenty twenty one. That's fantastic, particularly given that that was, you know, the the height of the pandemic. So not a lot of people saw their business growing at that point. So that's that's particularly a good sign of success if you grew during those really challenging years in the wine business. Well, one thing that I am able to do because I keep my day job as a lawyer is offer free shipping because that is the biggest impediment to small vineyards selling their wine because people are more, are far more comfortable going into a store and buying. Well, during the pandemic, you know, people were hesitant to go in anywhere. So if you could deliver wives to their house, they didn't have to pay the shipping costs, and they liked the wine, that helped boost ourselves. Because I figured once they got the wine, and they love the wine. They would pay for shipping the next time around. Absolutely. That's such a good strategy, and and and so sort of straightforward. If you can bear the brunt of the cost, that's that's a really sensible way to solve the problem. I mean, I'm I'm so curious about this whole having the two careers at the same time. Your law career and your wine career, they don't sort of obviously go hand in hand. How do you manage both of these things together? I mean, you're a pretty busy person. You're you're got your fund going, you do a lot of other jobs. There's a long list of them here. I mean, do you have time to sleep? What do you do for fun? What gives you joy? Well, I love to travel. I I mean, I love to travel And one thing we learned doing COVID, you can practice law anywhere. The courts were having zoom hearings. I did a knife circuit oral argument from Hawaii, okay, in twenty twenty. They didn't know whether I was in my home or whether I was in a resort on the beach, as long as I answered their questions, and we ultimately won that argument and have a decision on that case. Lawyers like, why? You know, pre COVID The re the way I sold my wine is I had a suitcase of suits for my depositions and hearings, and I had two suitcases of wine. And every city I went for work, legal work, I also would host wine dinners and wine tastings, and lawyers and clients would put those on for me in their homes or restaurants or at theater, centers because it's it's just a cool thing. My firm has been very supportive of theophilus vineyards, and they kinda go hand in hand. It it has also been a great marketing tool for me. I send a bottle of my wine to my clients every Christmas as a way of keeping me top of mind. And so it has been a natural progression. I learned about buying wines from my law firm, mentors, lawyers help pay the bills, in buying a wines. And the one thing that I have to say that I did not know is that a lot of winemakers are creative types and not very business savvy, and they are not responsive. And the one thing I learned about being a lawyer is you gotta be responsive. If a client calls or texts or emails, you need to get back to them before the end of the day. And, you know, people say, well, how do you get so much publicity? I said, well, I respond to emails because apparently, a lot of people who are winemakers they'll get a call or an email, and they never ever respond. Well, if you don't respond, you're not gonna get interviewed and you're not gonna have, you're not gonna be getting that kind of PR. And I've gotten a lot of PR, and I have to share this. You know, you're in Italy, but there's a new, sitcom on NBC here in in the United States And apparently, the producer and developer of that sitcom love my wines. And a couple of years ago, they wrote me and asked for permission to use my logo and my mark, my brand, and my marketing materials in their pilot. Well, that was so many years ago. Well, it finally was picked up in January, and it's now on NBC And my logo is prominently displayed in every episode. And then I understand from friends, because I don't have time to watch TV, that they even recommended my pen and ward to someone, in the last episode. So I just have a lot of energy. I don't need a lot of sleep. My father taught me to who much is given much is expected, and so I try to give back on being, on the board of the YMCA, I my family, even though my father was a principal, he had three or four jobs like me, so I came by it naturally. One of them was he had invested in the Dallas Postview newspaper So that is a family paperback in Texas. And as co chair of the board, I, you know, oversee that. My half sister is running it now. I just love what I do. I love practicing law. I love pleasure in the bottle when I do tastings and people love the wine, it gives me a high. Now what I don't do is I don't have a husband. I don't have a child I don't have a steady lover. And so that's been the sacrifice, I guess, that I've made in doing all of these other things. So, you know, I I sleep enough. I love to travel. I love pleasure in the bottle, and I love hanging out with friends and drinking good wine. Well, that sounds pretty darn joyful to me. I've I'm sure that your dinner parties slash marketing tools with your suitcases full of wine are epic and legendary. It sounds absolutely amazing, and your passion for it really shines through everything you say. That's it it's really nice to hear somebody who really gets that joy in their message. We don't we can't see each other's face, but just your voice, it's wonderful to hear. So I'm gonna I'm gonna hit you up with my my favorite famous last question before I let you go. I know you have a plane to catch. When you're not drinking your own wines, what kind of Italian wine would be your favorite? I I that's easy for me. Monte Puthiano. I can't pronounce it probably correct, but I spent some time in Monteputiano area that, growing region. And I love the caves, and I love the full body nature of that wine. And so I actually regularly drink it, and I I hate to say is that, it is pretty full bodied for me. Barolo is okay. K, but I really liked the Monty Pocciano. And pro probably because of my experience of being there. Absolutely. Wine is so so like that. It's it's such a good, you know, memory of of where you were and what what you did while you were in that particular place, especially if it was Italy, so evocative. I love that. And and you're absolutely right. Vino Vino Nobile de Montipolgiano is definitely a robust and and hearty, full bodied, you know, good good sense of fruit that wine. So I'm very happy to think that that's what you're drinking, when you've got Italian in your hand. This is this has been such a pleasure to speak to you today. I can't thank you enough coming on, and I wish you all the very best with all of your endeavors, and continued success at TheOPolis. And I hope that the next time I'm out in California, I'll get to come by and see you. Please do and let me know in advance because I do spend ten days a month in Dallas taking care of my ninety five year old mother. And other than Alzheimer's, and she's still in the early stages, she ain't going nowhere. So that's gonna be part of my life for a while, but I would love to entertain you in California with Texas hospitality. That sounds ideal. Thank you so much, Theo. This is great talking to you. Have a great day in California. Thank you, Cynthia very much, and thanks for having me. Thank you for listening, and remember to tune in next Wednesday when I'll be chatting with another fascinating guest. Italian wine podcast is among the leading wine podcasts in the world, and the only one with a daily show. Tune in every day and discover all our different shows. You can find us at Italian wine podcast dot com, SoundCloud, Spotify, Himalaya, or wherever you get your pods.