Ep. 973 Valerie Kathawala | Voices With Cynthia Chaplin

Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. This episode is brought to you by Vinitally International Academy, announcing the twenty fourth of our Italian wine Ambassador courses to be held in London, Austria, and Hong Kong. From the twenty seventh to the twenty ninth of July. Are you up for the challenge of this demanding course? Do you want to be the next Italian wine Ambassador? Learn more and apply now at viniti international dot com. Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. I'm Cynthia Chaplin, and this is voices. Every Wednesday, I will be sharing conversations with international wine industry professionals discussing issues in diversity, equity, and inclusion through their personal experiences, working in the field one. If you enjoy the show, please subscribe and rate our show wherever you get your pods. Hello and welcome to voices. This is Cynthia Chaplin, and today I'm delighted to welcome Valerie Kaffa wallet to voices. She's a wine writer based in New York City, focusing on the wines of Germany, Austria, South Terroll, and Switzerland with a particular interest in Biodynamics. She co founded and co edits the wine magazine drink which is the only English language digital publication dedicated to, quote unquote, German speaking wines. So, hi, Valerie. Thanks for joining us today. Hi, Sophia. Thank you very much for having me. You said that you have zero formal wine or wine work experience. I totally love this because I think wine should include people who are at the beginning of their journey, middle of their journey. I don't think everyone needs to be an expert or even should be. But you were you were a translator and an editor at the United Nations before you got into wine, how in the world did you get going in wine and writing about wine? What what sparked that off? Well, it's a funny question that I should actually clarify that, I when I got into this five or six years ago, I had zero formal training or background, but I have subsequently gone through, most of the WSTT program. I very much self taught in a lot of areas. But but it's true that, back in twenty sixteen, when I took the plunge, it was it was pretty much head first. Always the best way. Always the best way. Jump first. Think think second. I like to joke that the way I got into wine was having three kids. When I stopped working at the United Nations. Actually, my employer was the German mission to the UN here in New York. I was working there as a translator, editor, and writer. When I had my first child, almost seventeen years ago, I stopped working there and was a full time parent. And by the time I had my third kid, and we were, you know, I'd reached the end of a long day with them having been out in the sandbox in the playground, and we come home, and I'd happily plunk them all into the bath. And before doing so poor myself, one glass of wine that I take and sip as they were splashing in play. And at first, that was just to, a welcome wine down, but, very quickly, it made me realize that that there was so much more going on with wine than I realized. I mean, I had been a a very casual kind of wine drinker for most of my adult life, but, this was this was where I really just had a chance to think, almost meditate on a glass of wine you with with relatively little introduction for for a very long time. So that was that was my my first chance to really think think more seriously about wine. And then quickly, I became consumed by and was doing all sorts of reading and devoting all my free time to learning. So that by the time my youngest son went off to kindergarten full day, I knew that I wanted to marry my love of writing and editing and to some extent translating with this with this passion for why. That's so amazing. I I completely understand the the joy of sitting on the bathroom floor while your children are in the tub having a glass of wine. Do you have a Oh, yes. I have six children. So, there we go. Okay. Anytime you could grab a glass of wine and have a moment of peace was a valuable moment indeed. So and and definitely building that spare time into your life as a parent. In order to read and to study is not an easy accomplishment. It it sounds so easy. At least your time I read Yes. Not so easy. That's really not not easy when you have a bunch of young people who need your attention all the time. So much more work went into that than I think you're letting on. Well, it was a thank you for recognizing that, but it really was a pleasure. You know how it is, bouncing kids and other work. There's there's such an immediacy and a physicality to work with children and and to being a parent. And and there's so much of so much emotional richness there, but sometimes the intellectual challenge can be missing. And so this was just the perfect balance. And I think when you have such limited time to yourself, I know with me, it was definitely the case that I wanted to make the most of that time. So, yes, you know, getting involved in something that you really were enjoying, like studying wine. It was a similar story for me. It it was a way that I chose to use by spare time that was, you know, actively using your brain, which doesn't happen when all your children are small, but also doing doing it for something you love, which is which is much nicer than having to use your spare time on something that might not be your particular choice. So I'm glad that you got to choose wine for that. Yes. Thank you. Me too. And for your sake, So so you took your your writing skills and turned it into wine writing skills. That's also something that's not easy to do. I do some wine writing as well, and it's not the easiest sort of venue to break into. How did you get your foot in the door with with wine writing? That's also a great question. I think in many ways, I was just extraordinarily lucky all along the way. Of course, I had the benefit of living in New York City where it's pretty easy to make connections and then act on them. I think also you're coming into this right around twenty sixteen when social media, especially wine Instagram was you know, so viable. I feel like that just leveled the playing field for me. I mean, that opened doors and access to producers and publishers and platforms that, you know, ten years before that, even five years before that, I think would have remained firmly closed and only the most credentialed, writer would have been considered. But because, because that really leveled access, I think that was that was very, very fortunate for me. So I started, just asking around, just asking anyone I knew in the Hawaiian World And at that point, I knew very few people, but just, you know, from from sort of a con interested consumer perspective. So I started reaching out to people and and just asking, what would you do if you wanted to break into wine writing? And I was very fortunate that someone took a chance on me and gave me an opportunity to write, content marketing for a pretty well known national retailer. And, you know, that's that's probably not anybody's dream job, but it's a great way to learn about how to craft a pithy compelling story about wine in just a few paragraphs. And even if it needs to have a little bit of a marketing angle to it, you know, learning that skill is has its own value. So I did that, for just under a year and then right around yeah. Right around the one year mark, a wine shop right around the corner from where I live in Manhattan. Caught my attention, and it turns out that that wine shop also has a an online magazine attached to the shop is called grape collective, and it's run by Christopher Barnes. So I think Chris Barnes. Absolutely. What a great person to work for. Exactly. And he couldn't have been more welcoming and accepting of my relative lack of experience. And and so I started working there too. The the gig was that if you work there two shifts a week, you could then also gain access to writing for the magazine. And, yeah, I think a lot of publications are kind of playing with this model that he pioneered, but he was really one of the first to say, you know, we wanna write about the wines that we really believe in, and then we'll give you a way to buy them. And I think when he started out, very few people were doing that. So I I got really two educations in one. One was the the wine writing education and this opportunity to, you interview and taste with producers who were who are always constantly streaming through New York City. And those that I would meet when I would travel, but also to work wine retail, which I never thought I would do and probably wouldn't have done if it weren't kind of a requirement of the gig, but I'm so, so grateful. I mean, not only did I meet wonderful colleagues. I also got a great sense of, you know, the real world of wine sales. It's so easy to romanticize and idealize, but when the average person who comes in the shop says, you But can you sell me tonight that costs under eleven dollars you suddenly are faced with a very different reality of of what, wine sales are like. So so it was kind of a education on two fronts. Absolutely. And sort of learning to communicate in that way. I mean, wine writing can be quite removed from from everyday reality, but having to communicate with mister eleven dollar bottle of wine on a Thursday night, is it's such a good skill to have. I think, you know, some of the best people in wine did start either, you know, on the floor in restaurants or or in retail doing just that communicating with really, you know, everyday people who just want to enjoy their wine and they don't to hear a lot about the tenants and everything else. So, that's a different communication skill, and it's an important one to have. So, sounds like that was a a great opportunity. And I know Chris Barnes is a great hedge Cater and a and a great person to just an all around nice guy. So really good, really good to start off at Grape collective. So moving from from there and that experience, how did you get the idea for drink What made you decide to focus on, you know, German speaking wines? What what exactly does that mean? I'm sure not all of our listeners understand what you mean by that term. Why why did those wines have a particular interest for you? Yeah. I'll answer that second question first and then get back to where the idea for treatment came from. It quickly became very clear to me once I started working at grape collective that I could be writing about wines from anywhere in the world, but the ones that immediately spoke to me And I felt I was best positioned to tell the stories of were wines from German speaking countries in part because I'm fluent in Germany in German, and I have lived in Germany in Austria and traveled through many of the regions that that are German speaking. So German speaking wines refers to wines from countries where German is the dominant language or the only language. I will that's Germany, Austria, This little tiny corner of northeastern Italy called Otto Adagie Suttiro in Eastern Switzerland. There is also Luxembourg and Alsas, which I would love to get into when I have the bandwidth. But right now, somewhat arbitrarily. We have I I am not considering that part of my coverage zone, in part also because they don't speak French. So that would lots of limitations. So, yeah, so what as I was, you know, refining my area of focus, Personally, I I just realized that that I felt I had the most to say and probably the most to offer when speaking about once from from those places. And then as for the the idea for Trink, I have to say that The Treat project started really with three people. And it was the third person who's no longer involved in the project who had that very first idea. He's a very prominent journalist and author, and he had this idea he had been doing a lot of writing around wines from these regions, and he had this idea that he might do a project that focused in on them. And then he he asked me if I'd be interested, and I was, and then I reached out to one other colleague who I barely knew, over in Germany. And she was very interested. So we we set off exploring this project together, but then as we refine the ideas and, you know, started talking about different models, it turned out that We didn't all quite share the same vision. So he went off to do his own very successful, wonderful project. And this person in Germany, her name is Paula Siddore. She and I took on the mantle and and pursued the drink project. And so Trink is is all online and in English and dedicated to wines from German speaking countries. So, tell me a little bit about some of your favorites. I'm assuming there must be a riesling in there, spatsburgunder, are what are some of the wines that really grab you in those countries? Definitely riesling is at the top of the list. I mean, riesling is one of the varieties, not the only, but one of the rare varieties that is grown in all of for regions that we cover. And, you know, I adore riesling for the reason many people do. It's incredible versatility, and you can just see it. It's got a four octave range, and you can see it on full display whether you're in the Alps of of Alto adige or in the really hot sandstone sites of the fault or, of course, up in the chiseled slate of the moselle. It it can just do everything and then in Austria a whole different impression along the danube. And and so that is endlessly fascinating on its own. But, yes, I I think, which is a German pinot noir, is is another area that has just become so compelling, especially with climate change, I mean, everybody kind of acknowledges that, German Viticulture has has so far to to this point, largely been a winner of climate change because very, very edgy ripening conditions have now become much more reliable. And that as especially for red varieties. So, yeah, is a wonder, but there are all sorts of native grapes in Germany, Austria, Northern Italy, and to a lesser extent, Switzerland that, that are you know, a whole another universe of exploration, and maybe not quite as many as Italy has, well, but that's that's a tough record to beat at any case. But, yeah, the there there's a world of discovery in each of these countries. And I think one of our main missions with Trink, It's kind of a two fold two fold mission. One is to show how these regions are all interrelated. There's much more that they have in common than that distinguishes them. And on the flip side is to drill down onto the into the individual identity of the regions within these countries. People love to talk about German wine as if it's one thing or Austrian wine as if it's one thing, nobody would dream of doing that with French wine or Italian wine. I mean, every region has its own. Identity culture, tradition, cuisine, and these these wines express all of that. And so helping readers to understand what those what those wines are in their regional context is a really important mission for us. Absolutely. Especially with with a grape that's so widely known as riesling, being able to to communicate what what different soils and what different climates and different locations and, you know, vineyard aspects and things can do for that grape, as well as mind making, different methods of winemaking, I think people have a very one dimensional view of riesling for the most part, and we know that isn't really true. So I think it's great that you're focusing in on expanding that and and helping people get a better understanding of the versatility that grade really has. Yes. And helping people understand that it's so much more than racing. I mean, I think Germany has, you know, twenty two percent of its white grape plantings are are riesling. So that leaves another significant percentage of other things, which are all worth exploring as well, and I think that also gets lost in the. Absolutely. Absolutely. It does. And and especially, you know, as you mentioned, you know, when you're studying things like WSET, they only focus on such a small bandwidth of of things in Germany, but it's very nice to know that there's someone out there who's you know, waving the flag and being a cheerleader for for these poor other grapes don't get mentioned, you know, and and definitely there's some great quality coming out of Germany now. Whereas, you know, twenty five years ago, things were mostly off dry and know, maybe not to the same quality standards as they are today. So it's it's really good that you're giving a voice to what's happening in terms of, as you said, client change, but also beyond the climate, the the whole winemaking scene has has changed and developed quite a lot in the past twenty five years. Thank you for listening to Italian wine podcast. We know there are many of you listening out there, so we just want to interrupt a small ask. Italian wine podcast is in the running for an award, the best podcast listening platform through the podcast awards, the people's choice. Lister nominations is from July first to the thirty first, and we would really appreciate your vote. We are hoping our listeners will come through for us. So if you have a second and could do this small thing for us, just head to Italian wine podcast dot com from July first to the thirty first and click the link. We thank you and back to the show. Absolutely. That's a really critical point, and I think that can't be emphasized enough. I think that messaging has been a little slower to come out of Germany yet. That, compared with other places. But I think, actually, Germany is really at the forefront of this, you know, the generation that's up and coming there is probably the best trained most traveled of any, and you combine that with, you know, family estates that go back centuries and, the know how and the development of the sites. You know, some of these some of these wineries are every bit as historically rich as as thoseenburg and differences, and and tapping into that and appreciating that and and really valuing that in the market, has been a long time coming, but I think it is now starting to show. It it that does it it sort of mirrors a lot of Italy in many ways that that, you know, having arrived at the point where heritage meets innovation with some young winemakers that, you know, potentially come from, you know, five, six, seven generations of of a winemaking family, but They, as you say, they're they're more thoroughly educated to a higher standard, and they have some really innovative ideas. And they are combating climate change and looking at how to be sustainable. And those things are, you know, they're not just trendy. They are really important topic. So, we see that happening a lot in Italy too, and it's good to know that that's happening in Germany, our neighbor as well. So very, very good to hear that. And I wanna sort of tie this in with my next question because I know you're really passionate about this intersection of wine with ecology and social justice and history and culture, fill us in on how you perceive this intersection. I mean, most people don't think about wine in that kind of a context. So how are you bringing these different topics together in drink? And and how does your sort of particular passion for biodynamics fit in there. Yeah. Definitely. Well, I think, the first part of that history and culture, you know, that's probably just informed by my own training, having studied German and Austrian history and culture. And then lived there and always, reading widely about that. I I think for me, wine is most fascinating when I see it as an outgrowth of of culture and history and politics and tradition. And to be honest, that's far more interesting to me than identifying, you know, Greenfig or Meijer Lemon characters. It's a finished one. Of course, I need to we all need to know what the wine is like to be able to guide consumers and to to have benchmarks and references. But for me, personally, what the stories that I wanna tell, the writing that I wanna do is is really tapping into that broader historical and cultural tradition. You know, why is it that racing grows in the, like, is has become the signature in the roles of why is it that Vienna has such a high proportion of, historic vineyards preserved within its walls? You know, it's these are These are things that people don't stop and think about. But when you do, it explains so much about the wine culture, that we see today. So so that's where my real interest lie. And then the second part, the ecology and the social justice, I think that's just where wine intersects with my own personal values and areas of exploration. I I struggle all the time with how best to meet this moment, in our world's existence and Gio, I have kids as we've discussed. And my oldest daughter is really a passionate environmental advocate and I wanna live up to to the expectations of the next generation and not just, you know, say, well, this is your problem because I think they feel that really acutely, and and that's completely wrong to just leave them to that, sense of abandonment. So I I'm always looking for ways to to meet that responsibility. And, of course, there's part of me that thinks I should just, you know, quit everything and strap myself to the latest, project that threatens to to destroy the environment, but, but short of that, I feel like being part of shifting a conversation to greater awareness and helping people understand the impact that responsible Viticulture and and winemaking can have on the world is is the next best thing I can do. So that's why that that comes in. Absolutely. And storytelling is is such a big part of marketing now, not just about, you know, the the pretty castles and the pretty villas and palazzos and things, but the actual story of of people and people over time in a place and how they're trying to improve what they're doing, not only the quality of their product, but actually the the quality of their everyday work in the vineyard and and in the winery. I think getting that story out is one of the most important marketing tools that we have to help sort of move Italian wines in my case, German and and Austrian Swiss wines and yours. It's not an easy story to tell, but I think know, the next generation is really looking for that story. I know that my my children too and their friends are quite, serious about putting their their money where they feel sustainable things are happening. And I think our generation needs to be really aware of not only the fact that have we left them with a big problem. But if we expect to sell them anything, it's gonna have to be something that they actively feel confident in buying. Definitely. Absolutely. Yep. And and to be sure that you know, to the extent that these stories are marketing that that it's true, you know, that that we can say these things with conviction and, and that there's some meaning to the terms that we're using to describe this kind of you know, responsible Viticulture. Because I think this younger generation has also got a very sharp sense of of, you know, where there's greenwashing and where there's real commitment. Definitely. Definitely. There's it's very difficult to hide or or pull the wool over anything with with them. And as they should be there, they are important beyond consumers with a with a very important sort of expendable income at the moment that they are using probably a lot more wisely than I certainly did at their age. So Yes. And that's it's important to to know that and to to reach out to that and to make them feel included and and heard, and and give them products that they are proud to share and that we are proud to to get from. So it's, yeah, this is This is really important to to what's happening in wine these days. And we talk about old world wines, but some of the oldest world wines are really at the leading edge of doing, you know, innovative things that have to be done if we're going to preserve fiticulture in any stables our way. So I think you're right. I think you're absolutely right. Now I I know you've had a lot of your work published in a wide variety of of prominent wine publications. So I just wanna know what's next for you. You said looking into AlSaaS and and Luxembourg, but what are what are your goals for the coming up year? You know, as we see the restrictions easing, we're getting to travel again? Are you gonna head back to, to Europe, do some more tasting, do some more writing? Where do you see yourself and your work going in the next couple of years? Well, yeah. I have been sitting on the sidelines patiently waiting for the moment to feel right. Oh, you're doing better than me. I was very impatient. Oh, well, I yeah. I was quite cautious, you know, for the past two years, I have not been in Europe in October twenty nineteen, and the longer that stretches on the harder it's felt to feel like I could really be reporting on anything with authority. I think one thing that really helped was being able bank on a lot of previous experience. So you having, being able to write an article about something that's happening for instance in the Mosel by conducting twenty telephone interviews but connecting that into lived experience and ability to describe, you know, places that I've walked through and pasted out. Yeah. Well said. So that that was wonderful. However, I feel like I'm coming to the end of that reservoir. So, yes, next month, I am heading back. I will be going to Germany and Austria. I will be I I've just in the process of lining up my visits, but I am doing it with a much, much, much more deliberate I toward what I want out of the experience. I'm definitely trying to minimize the number of, trips I will make across the ocean. I, you know, I am obviously gonna fly there, but then once I'm there, just relying on train travel and going on foot, which I've found in the past to be a lot easier than than you might assume. And looking really in context, actually, I think it was an interview that I heard on Italian on on your podcast where someone was advising spending more time, you know, less time at a winery and more time exploring around. What's around? What grows around? What kind of farms are there? What's the What's the culinary scene? And I'm really hoping that I'm going to be able to immerse myself in that way. So not traveling to as many regions as I can, but hunkering down in one place and, you know, really getting to know that one little corner one little region rather than trying to stretch myself all over the place. Yeah. I think that's I think that's a good point. We're very fortunate in Europe in that we have a much more far reaching and effective and efficient train system than exists in the states. I I really can't understand why that is, but it's it's true, and it is very valuable, and it's it's certainly, cuts back on the carbon footprint of of wine travel compared to what you have to do in the states. But, that deep dive into a small region is is such a privilege. And I think we are all appreciating that more now after COVID than we did before where you start jumping and out of several places. I think getting that getting that real deep, connection with, you know, holistically. As you said, with other things being grown in the region, other, you know, agricultural practices, food, culture, festivals, all of the informs what we know about, you know, plain old grape varieties and winemaking and takes it just that step farther. So it's really that's a really interesting approach. I'm I'm happy to hear you're gonna do that. Yeah. Thank you. And I think you're going over without preconceived notions without a story already in mind, I think, will be very helpful as well. Because I've often found that when I when I go with the with the pre existing narrative in my head, it's all the other side stories that pop up along the way that I wind up writing about. So I'm I'm really looking forward to just going with a really open mind and seeing these places. Some of which I'll be seeing for the first time, and some of which I'll be revisiting. Seeing seeing them with fresh eyes, which certainly having been away for a little while will will help. Great. Great. I I wanna ask you also, it's just slightly off topic, but sort of post COVID and post trump tariffs and all of these sorts of things. What is the the German speaking wine market in the states like at the moment? Well, it's actually terrific. I can speak most knowledgeably about the market for German and Austrian wines. I don't have the most recent data for Swiss and, Alto adeje wines, but I will say that German wines and Austrian wines have had a terrific had a terrific year in twenty one. I mean, definitely the the post tariff bump was huge and the reopening of gastronomy and travel. And I think, a general, really effective general campaign by both Germany and Austria you, at the at the producer level, at the regional level, at the national level, to to get the word out about these wines through really innovative seminars and virtual events, during the lockdown times, I think have really, really paid off, but paid off in numbers are up, across the board in the US for German and Austrian export. Did you see a a more of a move towards e commerce with those wines at the same time? I think in their domestic markets, yes. You know, I think, Germany, for example, you know, small German producers were very unlikely to have a web shop until until COVID. Exactly. Used to just selling from the cellar door. And now I believe the figure is eighty three percent of German wineries now have some sort of online presence. Wow. We've really adapted, and I think it's a similar story in Austria. And so that that kind of flexibility could only have happened to a crisis, I think, and and it's great. Yeah. Absolutely. When people were for forced to sit home and reevaluate what they were doing with nothing in front of them, but their computer. So, yeah, sad, sad, but true. There some good things did come out of it, we have to say. Definitely. Whether that's translating, I'm not quite sure how that's translating to sales, in the US, for instance, but but certainly in the home markets. Well, and I think any communication always ultimately, you know, translates into sales at some point or another. So, just another communication skill is is always something valuable to as you said, especially the smaller producers. So, yeah, it's just it's interesting to to hear that. I it's not a market that I, you know, as much about, and it's it's nice to hear you speak with authority about the fact that they they did, you know, find some success and find some benefit during the pandemic. That's that's really hopeful, I think. I think so. So before I let you go, since you're on your way back Europe, I have to ask you, what's your favorite Italian wine? I'm guessing Alto Adi Jay. I am partial to Alto Adi Jay, and it's easy for me to pick from that region, but that's not to exclude the rest of Italy. I I have traveled widely in Italy and knew there's something to to love and latch on to in every Italian region, of course. But, yeah, I think one of my very favorite time ones, it had to be a native gray. It had to be something a little off the beaten path. And, I would say something that I drank last summer, a rota Malvasir in the Aiden, which is a tiny three and a half hectare winery, just above Botsano, in Altoadejade where the Plachner family farms organically and has done really an extraordinary job of holding on to these very delicate, native varieties, as well as scalva and some other white grapes, but they have made it their mission to keep one of these super rare red varieties, rotor Mavocia alive. And, you know, there are all sorts of new, vidocultural threats, Eska, of course and, drosophila Suzuki, and and there aren't great organic treatments or biodynamic preparations to to deal with those threats yet. And yet they are not giving up their They understand this to be kind of a key to to Altawati's past and and perhaps its future if they can find a way. So I have so much admiration for that approach, and then the wine itself is delicious. It's peppery and incense with notes of dried cherry and Backo. It's a silken texture, super fresh, and I just love knowing it and knowing that it's in such good hands. Well, this is the right question to ask because that's a new wine for me, and that doesn't happen very often. So I'm excited to try that. I do I love the the wines from that area. I'm a big fan of Lagraine. So I'm going to go hunt down the Plattner family and see if I can get my hands on on this. I have Malvasia has such a long story, and it's such a great family of grapes but that's a really rare one. So you've given me something new to try, and I always appreciate that. Thank you so much. Well, wonderful. Let me know how you love it. I will. And I I wish you all the best on your trip. I hope you have safe travels and a really enjoyable and informative time. While you're in Europe. Thank you so much. It was wonderful to talk with you, Cynthia. Thank you, and I wish the same to you. Thanks, Valerie. Thanks for listening to this episode of Italian Wine podcast. 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