Ep. 2270 Maurizio Zanella of Ca' del Bosco | Wine, Food & Travel with Marc Millon

Only grapes in the wine business cannot be washed by, let's say, history because water was the first fraud that's in Italy to multiply wines. So people was buying wine from Curia and at sixteen, seventeen degrees, and the wine was arriving the norm. And magically, this wine become, eleven, ten degrees because it doubled with water. So water was always seen like a fraud. Fascinating people with stories to share, fabulous wines, and the best local foods to accompany them, and beautiful places to discover and visit. All of this and more on wine, food, and travel, with me, Mark Millen, on the Italian wine podcast. Join me for a new episode every Tuesday. Welcome to wine, food, and travel with me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Today, it's my great pleasure to travel to Lombardia to the wine zone of Franca Corta located in the Gentle Marine Hills that lie below A Lake is ao, one of Italy's loveliest large lakes to meet my guests, one of the pioneers of Francacorta, Mauricio Zanala, of the iconic Cardel Bosco winery. Thank you so much for being my guest today. I've I've enjoyed Cadel Bouska wines on so many occasions, so it's a real pleasure for me to meet you here this morning. How are you? Thank you to you, and thank you to ask me. I am very well. It's not a sunny day, but at least doesn't rain. And, I am here happy to make you discover a little bit more about French Accord and Carlos. Okay. Thank you, Marietzia. It's actually unusually the sun is shining here. For me in Southwest England in Devon. And I know that you know this area a little bit because you studied here many years ago. Is that right? Yes. Yes. Yes. Too many years ago. Yes. I thought you mean. Yes. Now, Mauricio, before we begin talking about Cadell Bosco in detail, can you first tell our listeners where Franca Corte is, where it's located, what the landscape is like so that they can gain a picture of where we are. Sure. Like you're saying, we are in the Lombardy region that is probably not the most known region for wine, but there is a niche, a small area called Franca Corta that is in the northeast of Lombardy, and is exactly between the city of Belgamo and the Russia And the north border of Ranch Corta is the south border of a beautiful lake called Isaiah. That is beautiful lake that go straight in a valley where thirty miles north, there is a glacier called Adamilo. So we have, a little bit everything. We have the hills. We have the lake. We have the valley. We have the glaciers. In a very short time, just one hour away from Milano. We are lucky because we are in a very nice strategic position between Milan and Venice in a really beautiful Hilly area. Yeah. It is an absolutely gorgeous and beautiful area. And, of course, it's become in large measure through your efforts. Italy's, I would say, premier region or wine zone for classic method, sparkling wines. Mauricio cadet Bosco began as a dream more than fifty years ago, and it was your dream. Can you please recount something of this story, this beautiful story? Well, it's a nice story because it's unusually normally for a winery that, try to valorize the region and, get a good result in term of quality. Normally, you need two, three, four generation, and, was a miracle in my opinion that French Acorta was able to establish a real high quality and to get success on the market in only sixty years. The dream of Colorado Bosco start when I was very, very young, and I have a travel in France, specifically in both the nation. Right? And I was not, at all, wine addicted. But, when I come back from this travel, something was moved inside me. And, my family have a small farm here in Calabosco was called Calabosco because was it little tiny out in the middle of the forest. So CA is a dialect for Casa here, and Cadal Bosco means the house in the forest. And so for several reason, my family decide that I move from Elano and I come to live here in the farm. And, with the farmer, we basically say what we saw in France, we can do also here, we can do it better. So I was a little bit, incautious in order to think this. That was my dream. It's still my dream and in order to say Italy can turn from quantity wine to quality wine. And so this is, basically what's happened. And, I was very, very lucky to be helped in a philosophical way from the most, illuminated man that Italy happened this time was called Luigi Veronelli. That it was a little bit a man that pushed the farmer to get dignity in the end of the industrial people that was made wine at that time, and they was making wine most of the time in quantity, label, and not in quality. So originally was very important in order to give dignity to the farmer and push them to do the wine directly and not sell the grapes where, when they sell the grapes, they have to produce a lot a lot because they will pay very little. And so the quality of the wine in Italy in the end of the sixty and the beginning of the seventy was really low. And for this reason, by accident, cattle Bosco have been one of the few wineries that start what they call the Italian wine Renaissance. And, this movement, in my opinion, was helped a lot by Verint. In my case, it was essential in order to push and to broke all the rule and change all the habits at that time was not his. I can remember Luigi Veronale. I'd never met him personally, Mauricio, but I've been writing about wine for many, many years, and I can remember in the eighties, his red, Guida Veronelli was a Bible for anybody looking for quality wines in Italy because as you say, it was a transition moment after the Metadria when producers were discovering and rediscovering this great patrimony of Italian wines that, you know, the quality and the potential to make truly great wines. But if your inspiration were The wines of perhaps Laromene Conte, on the greatest silkiest and most expensive red burgundy's, and I know these are wines. I've read these are wines that you saw as models. How did you decide to produce classic method sparkling wine. Was the French Accord revolution already just beginning, for perhaps down the road with your neighbors, Frank Gonzalez and Guido Berlucci. Yes. Indeed, the trip that I have done when I was, seventeen was with him with Franco Zigiani, and that he was starting to put the first bottle on the market in sixty four. And this trip was, in the early seventy. And so it was, starting his idea and was, a genius, but was not yet established in term of, let's say, quality project region was something very personal. And I believe my rule was this that I have worked more for the operation than for Karabosco in order to make, and establish and change the DOC and, make order and put the rules very strong, obviously, with all the other producer, in order to set a new quality that was the highest of both the other region, not only Italy and the world. Because, at the time, we are quality on the paper. I am talking quality by rules, not quality on the bottle. But obviously, if you have high standing of quality by rules, one day you will get also the result. So our idea was to make the rules of producing Franca Corta very, very strong. And we succeed. Okay. That's really, really interesting, Mauricio. Because, you know, I've often wondered about how Franca Corta The whole wine zone transformed itself so comprehensively because as you say, prior to this, wine growers, people were growing grapes as they had since Roman times, perhaps. There were red and white still wines produced, but the comprehensive transformation into a wine zone for primarily classic method, Francacorta, sparkling wines, happened very quickly. How did the growers all become convinced that this was a future? Well, not too easy. We was twenty eight, if I will remember. So even twenty eight, mind of different, thinker, but was not too long to convince everyone that we have to make effort. We have to make sacrifice if you want to see a future So you cannot get what you dream if you don't do an effort. If you don't do something that take time. So it was quite I don't want to say easy, but it was not so difficult to convince everyone and to go in one direction. And I believe Princhacorta was, at that time, a big effort, investor in, quality and to say if you want to have a project, We are very small. We cannot win with quantity. We can win only with quality. So let's put the rules to make quality. And this project is something that take a lot of time, how you know, because have to change also the plantation, the Vineyard system. You have to change a lot of things and then leave the bottle a long time. So when you have an idea, the idea become reality, you take close to ten year. Only to put in a glass what you thought, you need around ten years. So some people was afraid that it was a too long project, but, we convinced with the fact that, Franca Corta was, the last in Italy in order of a number to produce butter fermented sparkling wine because we were producing less then one medium button, then we have behind us, all trip up a base that were producing one million point eight, then we have, a winery alone that was buluki that was out of the DOC the certain time, and they produce a loan close to two million bottle. And then we have trained the region that was producing close to three million bottle, and then we have the district of Kanelli where there was a big house doing ASTy, like, Martinez, Incano, Vicagona, contractor, Gancha, they were producing close to five million bottles. So if you think that in, less than fifty years, it's changed completely. And now Franca Corta is the first, and the other are behind, but it's not the first only number is the first in, price in quality because the price is related to quality. So French of the higher price and the higher number in less than fifty years. And this, I believe, was done for three reasons. The first is, the very strict disciplinare, rules of production. Second, we have no in the area, no industry, no necosian, and no cooperative. So the vision was all of record ton manipulan, of people that make grades and make bottle. And the third reason was, to get the opportunity to take away the word that's by the label, by law, and don't speak any more of the method, me to the classical, me to the champenoise, must speak only of the appalachian, like we do, all the novel wind does, when you speak of an area, you speak of an appilation out of the metal. So when you speak of Barolo, you don't say that it's a nebula, wine, make on the label, and they have to stay for a year in the the tech that you say is bravo, is Bruno. And so we was able to avoid by law It was forbidden to use the words commanded in the label. First in Italy then in Europe. And this was very important to classify the wine by a wine and not a sparkling wine. So to have the dignity not to call the y by category, but by appolation. So I believe those three elements make French a three a little bit easier in order to get a good reputation and push the producer to follow the project. And every three, four year, we change the DOC, putting higher the level of quality, introducing new roles in order to push everyone to high the quality level. Well, that's really fascinating. And as you say, in one generation, this fabulous Franca Corta wine region, wine zone has emerged on the world scene as the leading producer of quality Italian sparkling wines. I guess, Mauricio, one of the main reasons as well perhaps we could discuss is what makes Franca Corte Vignon so special and so well suited to growing the grape varieties, and let's also discuss those grape varieties to make high quality sparkling wines what does Franca Corta have that no other area has? In my opinion, Franca Corta have, a present from, god to get all those, beautiful hills that are very calcare. We saw with a lot of stone, stone, stone is some hills are are very close to cut the wrong. So you have more Boston than land. And, with these dry hills, you have, a good influence, of, a good level of rain, but the most important thing, in my opinion, is the fact that you have, a kind of, high of dryer that push cooler from the glaciers down to the valley, to the lake, and the area, if you come here in June and September, you have at least, in a normal day, ten degrees, temperature different between day and night. And these ten degrees, they can arrive in some day, even to sixteen, seventeen degree of difference between temperature of the day and temperature of the night due to the glaciers and the wind coming down. And this is perfect in order to make the grape ripe, but with the freshness and acidity that you need to make a wine that have to ferment twice. So we are very lucky for this condition where you have the perfect ripeness of the grapes, but you still keep the level of acidity that you need in order to make two fermentation. This is, unique. And how you say you cannot buy this. This is a terroir that is done like this. And, we are very lucky to have, a situation so positive. It is perfect to make the Franca Court. Okay. That's that's really, really interesting. And the grape varieties. Let's just talk about the Franca Corta grape varieties. We start in sixty seven with the pinot bianco pinot nero pinot grigio, and, to make what it was called pinot, different Chaportas Pumaan. And there was also pino differential quarter white and also differential quarter red done supposedly with Governor Frank Merro Barbera Nebbiolo. But we talk more of French quarter in the ninety. Or even before perhaps eighty five, we take away the pin of Bianco. And we introduce the sharpener that has become the first variety in term of percentage in the area. So now is the chardonnay, the order pinot noir and pinot bianco. And then I believe around two thousand fifteen, we introduced I am not good with number. So I will try to mark it to give you the right number later. Okay. We introduce ElBA. And we are very proud that, and we think ElBA Mac will be the future. Of the appalachian because first of all, is local. So it's indigenous. No other region in the world have Erbamark. So it gives the root to the French appalachian. Second is the grapes that, ripe fifteen days after chardonnay, and they keep a terrible high acidity. And this, I believe in the future, will help us a lot for the problem of the global warming. So, Erbamat will be crucial. Today, in my opinion, Erbamat is still a project, an idea is not a reality. Even if he's not in the rules, we are allowed to use ten percent. In Canada Bosco, we have less than one percent because we are not yet happy of, the material, the hood, the vine that we get because we have to clean all Ever Mart by Vir Roses because it was sick because was is a peer So there was only a really few hundred planned around in French of Corte. So we have to clean it because there are roses that are sick. After they clean, we have to start to match it to make change of genetic because it was too too acid. And so we tried to make it a little more smoother. And so we are working with Milana University, and the consultant have three after being of experimental where we do all the different in nicely. I don't know how you say English. The graph. Yeah. We have with with the different, but I tell you in order to get the balance of this high acidity and get the perfect airbag. So I believe we will have the right plant in two, three year. We will multiply in another two, three year. Let's say we will plan the ten percent and speaking in Colorado Bosco in about five, six here. So we will have their grapes in ten year, and we will have the one in fifteen years. So the project. By the fantastic project because, it will balance, but we probably will miss finacility due to the global warning if it doesn't stop. That's really fascinating, Maurizio, looking to the future and, finding the future in the past in this ancient grape variety, Erbamat, Ron only in Francia Corta that can assist with that, freshness. And acidity that is at risk due to the climate change. Mauricio, I know you have on the most ultra modern winery now and technologies, but you're also very rooted in tradition in sustainable Vitic culture, in organic Viticulture. Tell us about the importance of this. Well, it is, something that we have start, very early. We start the first experiment in the late eighty, putting four actor biodynamic and four actor in organic. And we have keep silently for, eight year, nine year, something like this. I don't remember exactly less than ten year with the the other actor that there was in conventional. So after this eight, nine year, we do the balance, and the balance was, obviously, favorable to the organic because with the epidemic, we was, probably too large in order to transform everything in the biodynamic. It was, already with hundred and twenty actor in six different villages. And so, you know, you have to be very fast and very careful with biodynamic to do the right thing in the perfect time. That is, the same problem with organic, but organic is more I don't want to say easy. Might more fast to make what you have to do. So we decide to go in organic, and, we take close to twenty year to move because we don't move from zero to hundred and fifteen one time. So every year, we was adding ten, extra, ten, twelve. So we was, doing this very slow because this latitude is not easy to be organic because we are very north, very humidity, very foggy, a lot of rain, and so be organic at this latitude is not easy. But we was convinced not for a question, honestly, of quality of the grapes, we was convinced for the quality and the future of our business. It's very simple. We thought that we cannot get from the land what if we put the poison in the land. And we cannot go gold from the land if I put poison in the land. It's very simple. I have to protect the land. So the philosophy behind our decision was not a driver to quality. Because I am still saying that, with organic at this latitude, in term of quality of the grade, in ten year, if you do a balance, you are losing a little bit in quality because you have seven year that you are perfect. So you do better of conventional. Mine's in the three year where you have a lot of fog, a lot of rain, a lot of humidity. The conventional grapes are better. No way. But what happened every ten year put poison in your land? We own the land. It's our first asset. Our business is the land. If we don't protect the land seriously, one day, we will pay the bill. So the reason why Cado Bosco is, decide to be certified or guarded from the other two thousand seventeen, all two hundred and eighty hectare in nine different villages. It's not easy at this latitude. The reason why is not we do better grapes. The reason why we have better land better ground, and we are sure that our land, our tree, our vines that will be go longer than the other where the people put the the chemical problems. So it's not the hour the chisel related to quality. That's a very, very interesting explanation, and I'm very glad to hear that. Again, looking to the future, really, to protect this huge vineyard and asset that is So important, Maritzo, your flagship wine, your benchmark is cadell Bosco Cuve prestige, a wine that I adore, and I've often, shown as the first wine in my Italian wine tastings. Can you tell us about both the Cadel Bosco method and about this great wine? Well, I will start from the Cadel Bosco method on going to the wine if you don't mind because it's the related to the organic certified with the culture. So we go through this story. And, when we turn in organic, we find out that, in the seller, and we was blind with the conventional, we was not hundred percent, organic. We found out after two, three years, that some, tag, some of wine because we always we do the notification, Vigna, by Vigna. And so, we compare a Vigna of Shardna next to another venue, one in organic and one in conventional. And, unfortunately, for us, the conventional in term of aromatic was always better. So it was more full of smell, and the organic one was a little, let's say, more close. And so after two, three year, it was not happy. Because, obviously, with organic, at the beginning, we was not expert. We pay a lot of more because we have to go in a lot of more time. So the cost was higher, and the result in terms of, quality of the wine was lower. And so we send all the sample to university in order to understand which was the reason, and the reason was very, very simple. The copper that you do when you're a galley residual. That you have on the skin, first of all, is the heavy metal and is not the best to put in your stomach. But second is, something that give trouble to the East. If you have a lot of copper, the east, that doesn't work in the best way in aromatic. And so you lose some perfume. You lose some notes. So we say, what can we do now? My god, this is a problem. Because, we need something in some wine in some harvest where it doesn't rain after the last treatment. You take a lot of copper in the cellar, in the juice and this copper doesn't allow the fermentation to go in point of view of aromatic in the right way. Is the bell is more different? It's not huge, but there is a different. This is a copper sulfite. That's used as a an organic, permitted organic treatment in the vineyard in smoke. And and in the beginning, we was using because we was afraid probably also more of what we need because we was afraid. So the fact that we was using a little more, the fact that, we was applied to, who's this cover, Obviously, if it doesn't rain a lot, these couples stay on the skin and go in the juice and make this. So we was very, you say doubt because we spend more to do beauty culture, and we get less in order of quality. We was a little bit disappointed. And so we have the idea crazy to say, well, it's simple. We wash the grapes, and all the people, all the technologies, professor, as a producer. Same. You're crazy. It's not possible, but, we try. It was difficult to try because, no one want to go in the process of making machine to wash grapes because, how you know, all the fruit that is processed in the elementary world is washed. Orange to the juice, olive to do oil, buried to do jam and marmalade. So all the fruit in the world is wash for the process. Only grapes in the wine business cannot be washed by, let's say, history because water was the first fraud that's in Italy to multiply wine. So people was buying wine from Korea. And that's sixteen, seventeen degrees, and the the wine was arriving with the norm. And magically, this wine become, eleven, ten degrees because it doubled with water. So water was always seen like a fraud. And so who make quality wine is blasphemed to use water. I don't know if you understand me. So we were not afraid to be blasphemed, and we start to experiment with, some people that wash You know, the salad for the supermarket that they put in a plastic bag that these salad is already washed. So because the people that wash all even are and say, you are crazy, we will never be able to wash grapes because grapes is too delicate. So we go to the people that watch the salad, and we start a small machine. And we have done the first experiment in seventeen, and, was fantastic. We lose ninety eight percent of the copper on the skin of the grapes. So we say, we see we go. And in two thousand eighteen was the first year where we used the washing machine, we called Barry spa And you can see this on YouTube. It's very interesting. If you go, Carter, boost for Barry's Bar, you will see all the process. And, we build the first, Barry's Bar. Was not easy, and where all the wine are, going a big yakuza, actually three yakuza, where the first clean, the second make cleaning with some citric acid in order to make pure, and the third rings. So you have three acoustic, different acoustic, where the grays pass through, and then they are completely dry by cold air before they go in the press. And this process was make a lot of rumor because people was, joking and say they'll not, to put the grapes in the water. And now I believe that the first machine I've done and go in Guundi, in Gujollet, in Germany. I'm only now more than fifteen years later. And this in my opinion is the future because behind to have the purity of the grapes, you have another two big advantage. Three. Sorry. The first advantage is that you take the label of sulfide down of two third So if before he was used in a great wine to put forty milligram of, sulfur, now we go to ten twelve. The second is that the wine they show the fruit. When you drink the wine, you have more than the, you know, the bread crust, the yeast, you have the fruit. So how to have to taste? The wine have to taste with the fruit. And the third thing that is the last we discovered by chance, we don't do any more the cleaning, and we leave the wine on the sediment And we don't take away the sediment because the sediment being so clean, they smell fantastic, and they add to the wild all the power that they lose when you take away because it smells bad. So we do Every one per month, a big button edge in the tank because they won't stay on the sediment and we won't, then they absorb all the power from the macro element that you have in the wind normally was throwing away. So the very spot for us is born for take away the copper, but now it give us three big advantage, and we are very happy and proud to have, discover by checks, the other two advantage that they are very, very important and behind cleaning the copper from the skin. That's absolutely fascinating. And in such a meticulous an extra care and cost to go through this process to get those results. Let's just briefly talk about the Cuve prestige, wine, which is such a iconic wine, I would say, for, for all of Italy. CoV prestige is the most iconic wine that Carlosco produces is, a long story that is the first wine that we produce in seventy eight, that the change is the face. It changes philosophy, changes the packaging, changing, the way of the plan, changing the percentage of wire that was improved, And that we change also the fact that now the prestige has the addition on the label. That means it's a multi vintage, but we cannot think that the consumer think that all the wine are the same. So each prestige have a number of the additions that we have produced. Now we are on the market with the forty eight, and the edition starts the from twenty twenty. But the first Prestige start in two thousand seven. So two thousand seven, we have the idea to make this one with this assemblage certain percentage of reserve, normally from twenty to twenty five percent of two to three old vintages that we keep in barrel, use a barrel, and So the idea started in two thousand seven, but in two thousand, credit, we want to give the number, the addition. And so now we are out with the forty eight and with the next forty nine. Actually on the market, you have forty seven, but forty eight will be out, in a few months. And, so the consumer can make, let's say, a difference and see how advantage have this one if he forgot one in two bottle in his cellar, and you can check that, forty five is better than the forty six after three, four, five year because Those wine have a huge potential of, maturing in the seller due to the fact that we have another very important innovation that is the fact that we take completely away the oxygen when we do the degos man, and so we are not obliged to put any sulfite at degos man and the wine are pure, but they can mature for a long time if they have a good card and they stay in the right temperature. And maturing a long time, the quality increased dramatically. This is another, let's say, patent of canon Bosco that we think how to discard without add any sulfide to the wine and leave the purity of the wine and leave a longer potential of it. Okay. That's, that's a really, really interesting, detail as well, the digorge month, without oxygen in order to completely eliminate the addition of sulfites at that vital state. Maurito, I'd like to change conversation now back to the area because I know you're very much an ambassador of the entire Frenchic Corta area, and your wines are so elegant and so prestigious But the traditional cuisine, I'm turning now to gastronomy. The traditional cuisine of Lago Dizio is, by contrast, quite humble, with a simple lakefish, the Polenta game, the sardina de Montez, all of this air dried fresh water, sardine, that's something of an acquired taste. Are these foods you personally enjoy and do you drink Condel Bosco with them? Oh, yes. Not because we are here, not because we are obliged because, even if he has a do a fantastic dessert called torta de Rosa, it's fantastic, but I will never drink with Franca Corta de Rosa because, it doesn't match. But, all this very special product done here, especially from the lake are, beautiful matching with Francacola because you have a palette of, saver very different. How you mentioned the dry sardina and the lathe are very powerful, very strong, and, a little bit oily. And Frankiacorte is the best one to clean the mouth from those, very powerful fish. In the opposite, you have, fantastic lake fish like, lucho, correga, they are very deep, very delicate, And so you have another marriage that is not so strong like the Sabina and this, fantastic match, with Francacorta. And then you have, in Roberto, The firmosa is the manager logo. It's a kind of Brazato, but done with some anchovies and some Percil and carrot, which is a fantastic meat. For a lot of people sound too heavy. To match with from Chacorta. Ma'am, if you have the chance to find a French Chacorta, it is a hundred percent pin on wire. You can go perfectly also with mumps or logic. That is, the typical dish with Polayna from, Roberto. Okay. That's really fascinating that these very traditional local foods, foods that people have eaten forever, probably, are foods that still pair very well with this wonderful Franca Corta wine. Now, Maurizio, I know you travel around the world that Cadel Bosco wines are found in the most prestigious Michelin starred restaurants. Other global cuisines or any particular foods, that you think pair particularly well with Cadel Bosco and with Franca Corta? But with no doubt, the Japanese who's in the real one, So I am talking not only of sushi. I talk of, especially Sashimi and Kaiseki are so delicate, so fine with the tone that has the perfect match with, Franca Corta, for example, the satin that is the Blonde de Blanc with the lower impression match perfectly with the raw fish that they use, like, how you know, with the big pressure. So you have the freshness of the fish match perfectly with the the French of Corta. This why probably, I don't know if this is the only reason because Japan is already first or second market for Frencha. More than United States more than Germany, because there is a long story between Japan and Prancha Corta, and because, I believe it matched perfectly with, their food with French Okay. That's fascinating as well. Now, Maurito, a final question. As I said to you earlier, I've not had the opportunity to visit Cardel Bosco, and I hope to visit you sometime very soon. But can our listeners visit Cardel Bosco, and what wine hospitality do you offer? We don't have a structure yet for sleep and for eat, but we are very well organized in receive visitor. We are very well organized. That means we are open every Saturday and Sunday, not Christmas, but every festivity we are open. So we have a a team working in a very professional way in order to welcome the visitor. There is a website in our website. You can book very easy. The visit. You choose the visit that you book the visit. And so when you arrive, they know already your name, what kind of visit you want to do. So we are organized in a quite professional way. We can do always better, obviously. In order to welcome the people in the cellar in the best way possible, and we try to tailor made the visit. We have only one problem. We don't take group over fifteen people because we don't want to have, you know, buses and, we wanted the people they can listen, they can walk, and they can enjoy the visit, not in a mess. So this, is the only problem that we have. We don't want to have more than fifteen people together. And, we have barriers locked during the day and with a different testing and the end of the tour. And, obviously, our team knows all the hotel, all the restaurant, all the criteria, in the region, if someone want to organize, to stay or to go to restaurant or to Victoria, we are French order. Now we have different label of hospitality. We have beautiful hotel, beautiful upgrade tourism, where the people stay very well and spend a a decent amount of money. And the same, we have three star restaurant, two star restaurant, but we have fantastic criteria. And so our team is able to organize something around the busy. That's great. That's a wonderful, information for our listeners to know. And Mauricio, I would, just reiterate what you said at the beginning. This is a very special area. It's an area that is not yet fully discovered by wine lovers outside of Italy, partly because Francacorta wines are still in relatively small quantities. We don't get them in export markets. As much as I would like. And, I really urge visit our listeners to make the effort. As you say, it's conveniently located close to Milanon, close to Verona. It's an area that really deserves to be discovered for its beauty as well as for its wines and its foods. Nadito, it's been a real pleasure meeting you here this morning. I wanted to know in more detail the story of Caddel Bosco of you realizing your dream and building on that dream for more than fifty years. And you've been able to really convey something of that detail and precision and passion that has made Kaddel Bosco what it is today known around the world. So I've really enjoyed hearing this story, and I want to thank you for being my guest today. I hope to meet you soon. Good afternoon. Thank you a lot for your time, for your opportunity that you give to us. And, really, you must come to see us because we have, not seen, and not have the time to speak of other element that make a false call different is the the opinion position that is, hundred percent what make a false call different from the other winery and the art. We have a fantastic art collection. That, make the visit more enjoyable because our fantastic sculpture, a huge sculpture around the winery. So this is an invitation for who is traveling between Milan and Venice. To stop by to see us. And the obvious remark will be the light to welcome you. Thank you so much. Well, thank you. I look forward to that, and, I hope to see you soon. Get out sick. Good out several weeks. We hope today's episode of wine food and travel with me, Mark Millen, on the Italian wine podcast has transported you to somewhere special. Please remember to like share and subscribe wherever you get your pods. Likewise, you can visit us at Italian wine podcast dot com. Until next time, Chinchin.