Ep. 2371 Erin DeMara of WineKnow Inc | Wine, Food & Travel with Marc Millon

The younger drinkers that I'm meeting with, you know, on a weekly basis, they love feeling that connection. I think that Jen Zed is looking for a reason to connect with wine, and I think it's through these stories that make things personal and not just, you know, advertised or proselytized by corporations, but by people like us and the via community, and, you know, all of us in the Italian Y business. Fascinating people with stories to share, fabulous wines, and the best local foods to accompany them, and beautiful places to discover and visit. All of this and more on wine food and travel with me, Mark Millen, on the Italian wine podcast. Join me for a new episode every Tuesday. Welcome to wine food and travel with me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Today, I'm traveling to the Sunshine State of Florida to meet my guest and good friend, Aaron Demara, who has worked in the wine and spirits import distribution and restaurant industries for some thirty years. Is currently an independent wine consultant and educator, teaching Italian wine classes and acting as a per diem brand ambassador for a small and select portfolio of Italian wineries. Erin is one of the most impressive and qualified wine professionals that I know. He is a Venitimy International Academy, Italian wine Ambassador, and educator, the Society of wine educator, the first person to obtain both titles, a certified spirit specialist and a court of master sommelier's certified sommelier. Aaron's great understanding and knowledge of Italian wine and immense experience of bringing Italian wines to the American market use him a unique perspective, especially in this very challenging moment in the world of wine. So I'm very eager to hear Aaron's thoughts and share them with our global audience here on Italian wine podcast. Aaron, it's great to be with you today. Many thanks for being my guest. How are you? I'm great, Mark. Thanks. It sounds like, a more robust introduction than than I feel like I deserve, but I appreciate you going through the accolades. And, I think you've known each other a long time. And realize that, I feel like we have a lot to share about the Italian wine and, the Italian wine market. Well, I think so, Erin, and and I did wanna impress your accolades because you are one of the most knowledgeable people I've met, you know, we live in a world of wine and a world of Italian wine. So I don't say that lightly, and I've enjoyed our conversations over the years immensely. So I'm looking forward to sharing some of your thoughts now with our audience. But before we really get into that, Aaron, I've never been to Florida. Tell us where you are and how you ended up being there. I live in West Palm Beach, Florida, which is about the northern end of what's considered the Miami Metropolis It's the largest population area in Florida. About six and a half million people, which is about a hundred miles north to south. And I've been down here, oh, twenty seven years in Florida. My wife and I moved in the late nineties. We're looking for, warmer weather mostly. And we're both from the city of Chicago, which is in, the North central part of the US, for my international guests. And, that North Midwest is a beautiful place to grow up for most of the year, and we don't miss the bitter cold winters for the rest of it. Yes. I can imagine that. I lived in the Midwest, not as far. Chicago. I was in Ohio, and, having come from a California. So winters were really winters there, and it's one thing I like about living in England. We have a very mild climate. Not as tropical as you do in Florida, I didn't realize that that Miami conglomerate was a hundred miles long. It's quite a lengthy stretch of the coast. Well, Florida, on the map, it's about half the size of Italy with about a third of the population. So it's now the third largest state in population in the US, and, it takes, in some cases, you know, a dozen hours to drive from tip to tip of Florida. But, I like to think about it. You know, it's a peninsula. It's surrounded by warm waters on all sides. It's like a really big pool. Yeah. Warm and, humid, a little bit windy and, flat. Definitely, sunny and flat. Oh, that's really interesting. And, actually, it is, interesting to put size and scale of the state, in relation to the Italian Peninsula, which really shows how big a Florida is and what an important market it is to work in and work in the world of wine and spirits. Now you've worked in this industry for some thirty years, Aaron. Was this always your chosen profession? What brought you into the world of wine and hospitality? Well, I can't say it was completely by chance. I started working in restaurants, putting myself through university, and then through postgraduate studies, and I was fortunate to work in a really fantastic Italian restaurant in the city of Chicago under our wine director. He wasn't a certified solmoyer or, you know, the the pins weren't as prevalent as they are now, but we had one of the largest wine lists for Italian wine in the city. And being as the bar manager, I was responsible for ordering inventory, set it on meetings. And while I was working on a a master's and PhD track program in American history, I really fell in love with wine, and especially Italian to wine. And so I decided instead of defending my thesis that the wine world was something I wanted to explore, I was lucky that my wife was supportive of my decision. And with just maybe a few detours along the way, I have been working with wine and, particularly Italian wine ever since. Oh, that's amazing. And that's really interesting that, you came from a history background. That was, your area field of study and expertise and then came into one. As you know, history is a a subject I'm I'm also very interested in and and passionate about. But I'm also, noting that if you came into the world of wine around thirty years ago and into the world of Italian wine, that was a that was an exciting moment because we were really in the midst of the renaissance of modern Italian wine. And I think you've explained to me that in Chicago, you were working with a very, very impressive wine list and producers at that time. So It would have been very exciting bringing these wines to the US market, wines that would be not previously known before, perhaps. Well, I was lucky to work in a pretty robust restaurant market, quite an international city, Chicago, like New York, like a Boston, like a Washington DC, where we had a lot of importers, a lot of distributors that were working with, really quality producers, you know, the, the mid 90s, and, I'll allow myself to date you and I, Mark, but that was kind of the birth of pinot grigio. You know, so when I came up learning Italian wines, the most popular wines were in terms of whites, gavi, and soave, and Orvieto, And it feels like now I'm watching this come full circle where, you know, what was generationally old is now new again for new drinkers. Pinaigrigio has grown and and never gone away, but you know, there were times when, you know, I decried the dearth of all the varietals that I learned on and, you know, found it difficult to find them first in the growing, Chicago market. And then when I moved to Florida, This is a tourist market, and so trends tend to lag behind for wine drinking, like most tourist areas. So twenty five, thirty years ago, the selection of Italian wines was not what it is now. Feel lucky to live in Florida now where it's a growing market, and I have the opportunity to present my experience with the Florida market at wine to wine the year before last. So it'd have been you know, November of, of twenty three. And I thought I had some interesting takeaways and I've had a lot of good conversations about Florida and the way that Italian wine is growing here where maybe other areas of the US are not growing or not seeing growth or are seeing declines in wine sales and, in wine conversations. Okay. So it's not just about volume then, Erin. It's very much you've been part of the scene in in terms of helping people to learn and understand the variety, the biodiversity, the range of wines from all across Italy, rather than seeing them just as brands, but helping to, really present and allow this wealth of Italian wines to grow within the the Florida market. I'm imagining, and I can go back longer than you, Erin, in terms of the time I've been working and wine, drinking wine, to, you know, the evolution of, the, you know, the wines for the McKianti and the straw covered Fiasco and Verdicchio in the amphora bottle. And, you know, wines that we fell in love with, wines that brought joy and happiness people. But, you know, Italian wine has moved on so much from then, and you've been able to be part of that journey. Is that how you sort of feel your careers evolved? Oh, very much so. Much as I love the restaurant business, when I moved to Florida, I felt like I wanted to find out what other what other careers were out there working with one. And I very quickly moved into the distributor side of the industry, working for small, medium, and large distributors And while I love that experience, when I had the opportunity to go to work for an import company that specialized only Italian one in spirits, that's when I really fell in love, not only with the business, But with Italy as a whole and Italian wine and food and culture, specifically, and I've been quite fortunate since about two thousand and two to have worked with three very diverse, but really important importers of Italian wine and spirits. And over that time, and I've worked for companies that imported small family owned brands, large, cooperative brands, and, kind of everything in between. So I feel like I've been a little bit of part of, you know, seeing how the, the Italian wine market has grown, at least in Florida. I mostly manage those portfolios in this market. I've done brand education and worked to other markets around the country. But Florida has always been my home territory at least, you know, for the last twenty plus years that I've been working on that import side for Italian ones. Okay. And the the import side in the US is a very particular the three tier system, for example. I don't know what that is, Erin. Is that something you would have been involved with? Is that central to bringing wines in and and getting them from producer to consumer? Well, early on, in my career, a friend that owned a small winery in Pimonte said that working with the United States is like working with fifty one separate countries, meaning that you need someone to help navigate you know, introducing a brand into the American market. And then each of the fifty states has its own laws, its own requirements, and for most part, its own distribution networks within them. So it's a lot to navigate, especially for even small and medium, you know, Italian wineries, and this three tier system where, you know, the consumer cannot buy directly for the most part, especially from import companies that the wine has to go through, distributor to a licensed retailer, be that restaurant or retail, and then on to the end user. It, it's about raising taxes. It's about protecting brands. But, you know, really it's the way to control the distribution Now I live in a state where there really aren't wineries. You know, Florida might be paradise in many respects, but, you know, without grapes and without wines, it can't be perfect. But other states have direct to consumer sales that are more robust. Like I said, each state has its own laws, But like I said, it's it's often a lot to navigate for Italian wineries, and that's why most of the brands that I've had experienced with, you know, have tried to use medium or large importers, or they've had to navigate small importers market by market. Okay. That sounds very, very complex. And I can understand why the expertise you can offer is so vital, especially at this moment. Aaron, you worked for many years with mezzonine wineries. Tell us a little bit about your experience. I'm imagining that you must have been very much part of the room of bringing Presecco to the US. This incredible success story of bringing this wonderful wine prosecco to the US market. It was a really rewarding experience working for the zoning family. And, you know, they have, I think most Italians and most Americans have experienced or have an opinion about the family one way or another, but they are still a family owned corporation. You know, they're the largest vineyard owners for any private company in Italy and for all of the production they make of Perseco and they're they've been one of the largest Perseco producers for many years. They have eight other small estates that was also, you know, a portfolio that was really proud to represent. But, yes, Mark, for twenty plus years, I've kinda watched the growth of per second, in particular, in the United States. I remember being part of a distributor meeting representing the zone perseco where they wanted to be a sponsor of auto race here in Florida. And our distributor at the time didn't understand that perseco was growing in Europe and growing other parts of the world. It hadn't taken off in America yet. This is the early two thousands, and they said Well, why would Preseco wanna make inroads into, you know, auto racing here in the US? And, you know, we see now the the short signing this event of understanding where the palettes of the world market of new generations we're going. It's a wine that opens a lot of doors. And, you know, whether those of us that are, you know, fully immersed in Italian wine drink it on a regular basis or, you know, look for, you know, quote unquote, you know, elevated alternatives, When I talk about prosecco to the American people, I always remind them that Italy is this vast country of small wine producers for the most part, and they drink very locally, Mark. You traveled that country extensively. I've been to nineteen or the twenty regions of Italy. Presecco seems to be the one thing that actually unites Italy. You might find local wines in every wine list, but you'll always find a Persecco, whether you're in Frulie or Pemonte or the southern coast of Sicily? That's absolutely true. Actually, I often, you know, I've been in Sicily, and I've asked for a local sparkling wine, and they don't have one available. They pour me a prosecco. It is a very universal one, and it's universal globally as well. And, of course, not forgetting that Praseco has many levels of quality and from, Corneliano Vald de bienvene, Fraseco Superior. DOCGs with the Rivay wines as well. You know, it's certainly a wine not to be sniffed at by experts or wine lovers. It's a wine that brings great happiness and pleasure. And I know that Zonene Family, I've met, the teams in England in the UK k here and have, you know, been part of that story, which is a a beautiful success story, but also as you say now with the very impressive portfolio of wine estates from the north right to the south, down even into to Sicily. And I know that gave you access to understanding wines from around the country. And maybe it was around this time that you began your studies and your involvement, the Venitinely International Academy in your West to become a Venetili International Academy Italian wine Ambassador. Is that right? Exactly. I think it was about two thousand seventeen when I first heard of the Venetili International Wine Academy and this small group of students that were really immersing themselves in all things Italian wine and Italian culture. And I remember applying for the program in two thousand eighteen, and receiving a very nice four letter back that the class was quite small. They were trying to keep an international, you know, student ratio. And so there wasn't space for me at that time. And I was given sort of the backhanded compliment that, you know, my CV was was nicely rounded, but I think I didn't have all of the pins if it were from the various wine studies. So, Mark, at that point, I joined the Society of wine educators and spent the next year becoming a first a specialist of wine and then a certifying wine educator. Now that's science been around as long as the master sommelier, the Court of master sommelier's been around since the late seventies, and it was an interesting program to go through probably closer to a WSTT, you know, world of wine program, but I did that literally with the focus of being more presentable, being more in demand for the via class. And so I I couldn't tell you how excited it was to finally receive my invitation for the two thousand nineteen class in Verona, the flagship, which as you know, ended up being the inaugural class of Via two point o as we call it. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. And what is Via brought to you? You know, we met through via. And we have a real community, I think, that all of us value. What has via been for you and being an Italian wine ambassador? But, Mark, I hope that there are people listening to this podcast that are outside of the vehicle community that if you've heard of it, it is the closest knit wine community that I'd ever been a part of. I was certified as a sommelier, which is level two in the court, back in two thousand six. And that can be quite communal, but there's nothing, I think, like what Stevie Kim has built with Via. We regularly converse via various message boards mostly on WhatsApp from around the world. It's not only a group of people that all appreciate love and work with Italian wines. And how many hundreds are we now, Mark? Fifteen hundred, they're taking the exam. I think of four hundred and fifty, four hundred and seventy, perhaps, after the latest intake in verona in April. It's been fascinating because people have come to this from all walks of life not just being certified sommeliers or educators or importers. We have just wide enthusiasts travelers. In my class, there was a physician American based living in Sicily, that just wanted to immerse himself in Italian wine and passed and ended up being quite a difficult exam. So it it is not just about earning the pin, which is always the end goal of an exam, but I think that we have done a fantastic job as a group of ambassadors in embracing everyone that sat the exam, everyone that's put themselves out there, you know, ultimately to study and take a test and and be judged. But we've embraced, you know, everyone that's put forth the effort. And that's why, you know, every year that I come to Verona, I try to come early for the end ceremony. Because I love being able to celebrate with the new ambassadors. And I've done it now every year since two thousand nineteen with the exception of two thousand twenty. And also to encourage those that came so close not to give up. Mark, you and I both have friends in this community that have taken more than one attempt to pass the exam. And I don't think any of us, you know, looked down upon them, you know, for the extra efforts. In fact, it's the reason why I think we're so involved in the ambassador program and with the Italy and with all the meetings and the tastings, everything that's surrounded because it is such a tight knit community, and we are so welcoming. I think you've expressed my own feelings there, Aaron. This inclusivity that Stev has created is quite exceptional in the generosity of the community. But at the same time, it helps achieve what the goal of the academy is. And, you know, I've I I do feel that all of us and beyond the ones with the pin, as you say, all those who have gone through this intense learning experience, we really do feel that we are ambassadors of Italian wine. And for the industry, that's vitally important, but it also creates a deep and special sense of community. And I certainly value it as much as you do. You know, and one thing that I've loved about you know, attending year after year and seeing the growth of the Via Academy is the participation now of all the consortia in helping to sponsor tastings and events around the Via Academy. There are so many wines marked that, you know, around the world, ambassadors might not have the exposure to, you know, like I do in America, like you do in the UK. And so when, you know, these smaller wine groups are able to bring you know, a master class to studying the in the academy. It's an eye opener, especially for younger wine tasters that are just really wrapping their arms around the breadth and the depth of Italian wine. And it's probably the one thing that I would miss that I do miss about, not sitting through the classes again is that only the attending budding ambassadors are allowed to sit through these, you know, these consortium led master classes and taste a dozen wines from Montefalgo, taste a dozen wines from Montalcino, and listen to the producers really explain in-depth and breadth, you know, what makes their wine so special And so you hope that, you know, we're all able to take that information, that passion of exposure, you know, back to our home markets. You know, ultimately that's how wines get delivered around the world become popular is is you know, a little bit of education, a lot of passion, and probably even more sweat equity, but, not every Italian wine is known every part of, the world, although you know, you and I both agree we would like to make it so. Yeah. No. That's absolutely right. And I think Italian wine, more than wine from almost anywhere else needs this education because there's such so many wines produced in small areas that you know, remain mainly unknown, even within Italy, but wines that deserve to be tasted, deserve to be sold, deserve to find the market because they offer tastes and flavors, and and, background culture and history that is utterly unique. And you're right. The candidates to become Italian wine ambassadors do have a remarkable learning experience with the support of the Italian wine in this through the consortium through so many people that understand the importance and the value of what's being achieved. Now, Erin, I want to turn to some of the challenges that the world of wine in particular, the world of Italian wine, and maybe perhaps the world of Italian wine in the US is facing. And the challenges are many. I mean, we can talk about a number of issues. Health has suddenly after wine has been drunk and enjoyed for literally thousands of years, has been part of life and civilization. We're now being told that wine is a dangerous substance, and there's no safe level. Of drinking. And, you know, this is a shock to us as wine lovers as wine drinkers. It's a shock to the wine industry, not just Italy, but with the wine industry across the world because this is a product that is natural and healthy. We feel. What are your feelings about how this is impacting the market and sales and the perception of wine in your area? Well, certainly, Mark, from your perspective, I think it was was the NIH that first came out and said there was no recommended level of alcohol, you know, and I think that some of these governments have stopped just short of labeling this food that we've consumed for thousands of years and poison, but it does feel like you know, a bit of a turning point in the healthy lifestyle or the Mediterranean paradox, if you will, that that we've thought we've been joined from, you know, certainly for my lifetime. The conversation, you know, about about alcohol I think needs to be almost separated from wine because in my experience growing up as a bartender and in the restaurant business, you know, there's different kind of kinds of drinking. And the one thing I've really learned from spending so many times in Italy, in France, in Spain, is that the Europeans, in much of the world, they look at wine as a condiment on the table. It's part of the meal. It's not something to be consumed for its own sake or for, you know, the alcoholic effect that's inside. You know, that's either a fortune or unfortunate byproduct of the wine, but wine itself is not a cocktail. And we know that there are some compound medical benefits, however, small, you know, from wine that other spirits, you know, certainly don't have. But I think it does disservice to us as a people to pump wine in with, you know, high alcohol distilled spirits. You know, certainly it's ultimately an alcohol, and every physician has to you know, make their own decisions what they are gonna tell their patients or what physician led, you know, government industries are gonna tell, their peoples. But my perspective here is my wife is a physician. She's been in practice for thirty years. And you know, full disclosure. She actually specializes in addiction medicine. So she works with patients that do have issues with alcohol and other substances, but we also consume wine at home at a very modest level in you know, she's the first to say that she doesn't equate modest wine consumption with a meal with alcohol abuse. What we are more focused on as a family and my wife is in position, is the overall types of foods that we consume. I think the narrative here in the United States is slowly moving towards looking at how food is processed. You know, we can follow the story of a grape from vine to tank to barrel to bottle and know exactly what goes into it. There are a few other foods. I hope you agree that we can do that with. And, you know, Mark, I think that we just have civilized people and and educated people start looking at, you know, the food consumption and how things are processed without demonizing the obvious targets like wine as part of the alcohol, you know, retinue, then, you know, they will never gonna quite be healthier. Yeah. I completely agree with you. And I think what you're also saying is that wine is different from other alcoholic beverages in as much as there's a whole culture and civilization behind it that has been part of life, part of certainly part of European life for thousands of years. And, you know, it as you say, it's something that is very much part of enjoying with food, enjoying in a in a healthy balanced way with food. So I hope that these guidelines and warnings do not intents fine because I think it does a disservice, not just to the wine industry, but it makes people worried. It makes people concerned when as you say there are many, many other things to be worried about such as ultra processed foods. Now I think it's easy to also feel just at this moment that the world of wine is the world is a hole, Aaron, not just wine. My goodness. He's on the brink of chaos. We have as you know, and we've talked about it. The for the threat of the tariffs, which are making an immediate impact already with the ten percent tariff that's been added with possibly much more severe tariffs to come. And when we were both at Vin Italy over the past month, I think that there was a a real sense with almost everybody we talked about, producers, importers, people that were at Vin Italy for whatever reason. There was a concern, but also a determination and a belief that Italian wine will survive this certainly. Tell me your feelings about this and tell me your perspective from the United States of how this is going to be impacting businesses, and, you know, what can be done? Well, I had to answer that question, you know, quite a few times while I was in the verona four of Italy, and sometimes my stock answer was no one voted for these kind of tariffs. And I'm happy to keep our podcast today apolitical, but it's hard to because you know, decisions get made after votes are tallied that feel like unintended consequences. And it does feel like Italy is being caught up in, you know, a larger geopolitical backlash that, as a country, it doesn't quite deserve. The biggest exports to the United States from Italy are food and wine, which I think are sort of irreplaceable that are not substitutes domestically for true parmesan regiano, true, pursuit of San Diego and certainly for, you know, the the myriad wines that we import and love. So I tried to keep my meetings with all the producers that I tasted wines with as positive as possible. One, we know that in the United States, you know, these regimes, I use that word not lightly. It just doesn't feel like just a simple administration, but it only lasts four years, which can feel like a lifetime But we've seen declines in wine consumption before. It's unfortunate that it comes on the heels of this other perceived decline in wine consumption overall. And it they've not just perceived. The numbers bear out that wine consumption has been declining across the country in the US and, you know, in other world markets. But I, you know, I spoke to this just about eighteen months ago that, the numbers in Florida where I live, we're certainly going against the grain of declining wine consumption because I live in a market with an older demographic with more disposal income and a growing tourist economy So for this market is the number one producer of income across Florida and tourists also tend to, you know, consume wine. But, you know, the worries here was how to engage the next generation of wine drinkers. And I think there's been a lot of hand wringing over the last five or more years about how to get, you know, new wine drinkers on board as the younger generations you know, have seemingly more options, for consumption or for not consumption, you know, is alcohol consumption down overall across many markets. I think the demographic numbers have shown that to be true. But I step back a little bit and say, you know, three and a half more years isn't that long a time to wait for a new election in the US and a new direction. I definitely think that the current tariff situation will be resolved before then, you know, as it negatively impacts the economy in myriad, you know, unforeseen ways here in this country, which in the short term is quite unfortunate. I know that, raising prices by twenty percent at the import level, which then as we talked about, Mark, being a three tier system means that the employer gets charged more, they have to pass on that to the distributor that passes along to the restaurant or retailer. And so that twenty percent tariff might become a forty percent increase in price to the end consumer. Now that definitely makes it difficult for most people to enjoy the same wine they are enjoying. It certainly makes it more difficult for new wine drinkers to look at wine as an affordable or enticing option, you know, as a beverage of choice. But I think back I think Mark, you and I probably get into wine a little earlier than most of our peers, but we certainly couldn't enjoy the wines that we were reading and studying about until we were into our careers. Probably thirty, thirty five. It takes a while to, you know, to make enough money to afford the wines that you read about. And so if there's a gap right now in generational wine consumption, I'd like to say that, you know, that might resolve itself. And certainly, I have ideas on how the how the Italian wine industry can, you know, help itself at least in a market like the US Yeah. I think I, again, agree with with your thoughts on this, both about tariffs, but you're right to highlight the generational issue of younger people, gen Zed, for example, not embracing wine in the same way that perhaps We did, but I too am hopeful that wine is such a joyous product that people will eventually find that it's something that enhances life and the wine industry will continue to thrive Now I just finally want to turn to a happier subject rather than the challenges. You know, I'm I always like to talk about wine and food. That's my passion. And I I've never been to Florida. So I don't know You know, I'm I'm sure you have every conceivable cuisine on earth, probably within Palm Beach and West Palm Beach alone. But I'm guessing that their particular wonderful specialties from this beautiful peninsula. I'm imagining seafood, but maybe other things too that are quite quintessential Floridian experiences that everybody should eat. And what would be the Italian wines to pair with them? What are some of the the real treats for us tourists if we visit Florida for us visitors. What should we be sampling that is really the taste of Florida to pair with Italian wine? Well, Florida is a peninsula. It's surrounded on three sides by water. And I've almost begun to think about Florida. Not only does it look a bit like Italian peninsula, but the cuisine tends to change much like it does in Italy. Mark. I hear me out because of the southern tip of Florida in Miami, which is really influenced by the cuisines of the Caribbean Central and South America. The food tends to be the spiciest. Much like it is in Southern Italy. And, you know, as you go north along both coasts, you get to other metropolises that, you know, have their unique cuisine. And the middle of state of Florida, is really farm and ranch country. It's vegetable farming, it's fruit orchards, it's a lot of, animal husbandry. It's not the mountainous interior like Italy, but once you get away from the coast, it feels like the the cuisine turns more into steak versus seafood, if you will. And then the north half of Florida, that's more influenced by the traditional foods of southern United States. You get a lot more savory dishes, a lot of, stews, a lot more pork, a lot more fried foods, but, there are some unique things to Florida cuisine that I haven't found substitutes for anywhere else in the world. The archipelago of islands off of the tip of Florida. The Florida keys are famous for a couple things. The pink shrimp of the keys. These really fat juicy prawns that are easy to enjoy just peel and eat or, you know, quickly in dishes or even done sashimi style. One of my favorite dishes is pink shrimp that were served as a sashimi in a very famous sushi restaurant in Miami, and I had sold them in a Moreno Vermentino by the glass. And that Vermentino became the number one why by the glass in a restaurant where you think sake and cocktails would drive their beverage program. There are fish here like grouper, which are a a large, not quite game fish, but that have this wonderful meaty texture that really takes to grilling. You know, we have sport fish here in the Atlantic Ocean swordfish, in particular, a delicacy called pumpkin swordfish, much have you ever had that particular deep water swordfish mark? No. I haven't. No. Because they tend to swim deeper and eat a lot more crustaceans. They have a distinct kind of orange pink flesh to them. Super delicacy and I try to use the influence that I had from my very first trip to Sicily where I was served Spada with Narodala. Amazing. Yeah. Yeah. You know, as his meaty fish. Yeah. You know, as much as I love Italian wines, I love, I also love the spice of the Caribbean. So I'm always, you know, looking for wines that have a juicy component to them, you know, like a fellow with Caribbean peppers or a fish stew, which certainly isn't that different from, you know, with many of the, the fish stews of the peninsula like the Chapinos. Actually, that's really interesting to think of the varied cuisines, you know, as you know, it's easy to just think of Florida as a single entity, but you've emphasized geographically, but also culturally, as you say, with the different influences across the peninsula. What about with those fried foods from the northern part of the state. Is that around the panhandle? Yeah. The panhandle is sort of the, you know, the southern Riviera of those states, you know, in the southeast of of the US, we think of Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, that have, you know, this incredible, you know, very regional cuisine. And that's what I love about Italian wines. There's so many varied flavors and textures that are available to us and really some, and, some cuisines that mirror what we do here. I've always reminded that there are so many fruits and vegetables, pumpkins, you know, zuca tomatoes that are native to the Americas that were not part of the Italian cuisine culture until they were brought back, you know, by the first explorers. And, you know, the type or nothing if not resourceful in adapting things very quickly to their own needs and probably think that the Italians have elevated, you know, tomatoes to an art form, and I'd have to agree. But, you know, there's so many different ways to include them. Doesn't set to be on the Apollo pizza. You know, they can be stewed into the sauce with vegetables like okra, you know, which is very, southern here. Very southern. Yeah. That brings a texture depending on on how much pepper you're gonna add or which meat you're gonna you're gonna add, you know, There's something where I love, you know, a fiano, you know, with a little more body scene than a falaenghina. An extra bit of creaminess. And if it's, you know, if it's gonna be roasted pork, am I going white with a Greco? Am I going red with know, with with a Galliapo or, you know, or is it meat on the bone where I'm, you know, I'm I'm looking at Allianico. And that's just from my most recent trip, you know, to Compania. That gives me so many lovely ideas in terms of, you know, of pairing all these foods. I've ever been doing some research for my talk at wine to wine. There are a little over two thousand registered seafood restaurants in Florida, Mark. There's about the same number of Italian restaurants in Florida. And about a thousand steakhouses. And so one point I made to my attendees in this talk, you know, speaking about the Florida market was the Italians specialize in seafood on the coasts. And of course, you know, whether it's Northern central or southern Italian cuisine, there's always something, you know, unique and interesting, but did the Florentines elevate steak houses to an experience with, you know, with with the Becca? Yes. And so certainly shouldn't we first and foremost be thinking about, you know, all the expressions of Sanjay when we're grilling steak? Absolutely. Actually, that's fascinating. I could, go on listening to this for a long time, but I I would rather do it in front of maybe a grill with us cooking together and certainly a few of these glasses of wines that you're mentioning. But you're de definitely demonstrating how Italian wine is such a palette of flavors for us to enjoy with any type of cuisine. As you say, there's this wealth of cuisines in Florida, and it's a joy to be able to sample so many different flavors, but also to pair with Wonderful Italian wines. We enjoy speaking about this, and and so many of our listeners do, but now that I've gone back working recently back on premise, if you will, working with part time in a wine bar, being able to to share stories with guests on a nightly basis, I'm realizing that we're the beneficiaries of working, you know, in our chosen field of Italian wine, which has the most stories, or at least it feels like the stories are unique and interesting and incorporate, you know, so much of history as you demonstrated with, your fantastic book, but the younger drinkers that I'm meeting with, you know, on a weekly basis, they love feeling that connection. I think that Jen Zed is looking for a reason to connect with wine. And I think it's through these stories that make things personal and not just, you know, advertised or proselytized by corporations but by people like us and the via community and, you know, all of us in the Italian Y business. Yep. I agree totally. There are so many stories, genuine stories, authentic stories, not marketing stories. This is what Italian wine, and and Italian culture is all about. And I do agree. I do think that young people, as they always have been, are fascinated, who doesn't like to hear stories, and that is a way that That is something that Italian wine almost uniquely has this ability to tell stories within a wine glass. Aaron, it's been really fascinating catching up with you. I've really enjoyed this long chat up as I say, I look forward to more chats with you when we next meet. I've never been to Florida, but who knows? Maybe I'll find a way to come over. And, I'd certainly like to show you my part of the UK when you're next over here. But in the meantime, thanks so much for being my guest today, and I hope to see you soon. Thank you, Mark. I always appreciate speaking with you. And, thanks for giving me opportunity to share, you know, a little bit of my passion about Antonio and about what we do. It's been a real pleasure. And we'll be in touch then. Thanks, Aaron. See you soon. Thank you, Mark. Ciao. We hope today's episode of wine food and travel with me, Mark Milam, on the Italian wine podcast has transported you to somewhere special. Please remember to like share and subscribe wherever you get your pods. Likewise, you can visit us at Italian wine podcast dot com. Until next time, Chinchin.