Ep. 165 Monty Waldin interviews Georgia Panagopoulou (Wine Gini) | Wine Influencers

Italian wine podcast. Chinching with Italian wine people. Hello. This is the Italian wine podcast. My name is Multi Wardin. My guest today is Weinjini. The weinjini. So what's your real name, weinjini? So, my real name is Yorgia. You're here. But for my international friends, I'm just Georgia. So you're a Greek national? Exactly. I was born and raised in Athens. Okay. And did you have a wine background? Not really. We're a very tradition I would say Greek family. My father is a doctor. My mother is a teacher, and we are four kids. So we're Will you be the oldest? I have three older sisters and one younger. So we're like the typical holy Greek family. Okay. So were you good in school? Yes. And then? What did you say? Were you good in school? Are you a good student at school? Yes. I think I was a typical, geek. I really liked studying. I being, you know, very in the top of my class. So It's too quite competitive. Not really. No. I'm not competitive. I'm mostly competitive with myself. I always push myself to reach the highest level that I can. Okay. With others. So, after you left school, did you go to university? Yes. What did you study? I studied, chemical engineering. In Greece, you know, we love studies. We start from bachelor's, we go to masters, we do PH days. So did you do all that as well? I have a master's degree in chemical engineering. Do you a doctor or not? Not yet. Okay. So, and where did you work when you were chemical engineer? So after I graduated, I did quite a lot of things. Very a big complete tasker. And actually, I was trying to find myself. So I worked in the commercial part, in the marketing side, a bit in the product development, but then I decided that this life wasn't for me. So I could ever thing. How old were you and you weren't? I was twenty four. Oh, so like it sounds like you've like fifty years in a company. Then I quit. So four years of chemical engineering. That's that's not exactly Turkish three. Is it? So obviously you obviously had probably a a safe job, good salary. Maybe the work wasn't the most fascinating, but you had trained for it. What was your next step? So I always had in mind that I want to do something in the wine. And when I quit my job, I decided to move to Santorini. I guess you know Santorini one of the So just to give us a very quick detail, Santorini? Santorini, one of the most popular touristic places in Greece. So what is it? An island? It's an island, volcanic island, super touristic, and one of the top wine destinations. We produce the air, the variety, Assertico, which is a white wine grape. It's a white wine. It's a white grape, which is very, very aggressive, super acidic, super mineral. A lot of wine people in Greece, when they want to do a big step. Let's say in their career, they go there. To Santorini? Yes. Really? Either if if they want to read, say, produce wine, or if they want to start doing something in the communication marketing, Santorini is place to go. And it's actually the place that changed my perspective of wine completely because we met people from all around the world, and it was a really eye opening experience for me. So it's like a melting pot center in you. And volcanic soil, obviously, it's a volcanic island. Exactly. It's a volcano that's collapsed into the sea. Right? Exactly. At the energy, there is amazing. If you go either for vacation or to work, you can really feel these vibes of the volcano. It really affects you. So you've got basically you've gone from chemical engineer to being a hippie. Yeah. About vibes and all this stuff. Yeah? You know what? Enzing ears are really romantic people. Are they? Yes. If this is a wine podcast, not a lonely hearts podcast, but we can certainly switch tracks if you want. So did you when you went there, you were, obviously, to send you had your reasons. I mean, was that also for love or just purely for your own personal experience? And No. It was for my personal growth. And I felt that there was a point in my life that I wanted to do something to be inspired. So So I started working for the marketing communication side and, wine tourism, man. For for the island of Santorini? Yes. I was working in a in a boutique winery there in the wine tourism part. So in the chance to meet people from all around the world. And for me that was something very interesting because I started to be interesting on how to communicate wine to them. At this point, I wasn't very experienced in wine because I have already done the courses. One aspect education trust? Yes. Exactly. But for me, let's say there was this seed planted in my head that maybe this is the way for me to go to start communicating wine to people who might have no idea about it. But all wine or just week wine? Wine. In general. In the beginning. So are you, I mean, were you tasting a lot of wines on santorini as well? So, basically, when you I mean, we, obviously, you were tasting wine on santorini, but you weren't interested in writing tasting notes on a blog, but you're much interested in natural how producers can communicate with consumers and how consumers can communicate with each other, I guess. When I was in Santorini, I was mostly interested in the communication of wine to the consumers. And also, I started doing the blog of the winery and start doing some social media. That was just the beginning for me. So wineries would pay you to organize their website and and Twitter feeds and things like that? No. At this point, for me, it was just me working in this winery for the season for at once and started doing a small blog for them and social media for them. So when the season ended, I started having some thoughts. I thought to myself that I want to do something more, and I want to be more of a professional. So at this point, I decided to start a master's degree in wine management. This is what changed my life because with this degree, I had the chance to travel in thirty countries around the world to meet professionals, talk with them about practically anything. We met people from, the business side, people from the production side, people from the communication, journalists, educators. So it was a master's degree to help you to have an overview of the wine market in general. And this is how I started my personal blog. So what were the trends that you identified then when you were doing that? You mean, in terms of wine communication? Yeah. I mean, trends in, yeah, obviously, in terms of how the communication reflects what's actually going on in the vineyard of the winery. The funny thing is that when it comes to wine communication, there are no rules. Wine World is so diverse that you can't really do the same thing for a winery in Bordeaux and a winery let's say in South South Africa. So for me, the fact that the millennials, my generation, we are trying to do something different in the wine communication is really important because we can, let's say, a reshape how millennials perceive wine. But because the role of a wine communicator is relatively new, we should really evaluate and think what we want to accomplish with what we do. So for me, if you want to communicate the wine, it's very important to teach first of all, a winery, how to do it. So what are the I mean, if I have a winery, maybe I have a website, just the usual stuff, technical sheets, a little bit. We gotta fit a family winery, blah, blah, blah, we our wines are great. Blah, blah, blah. And three of them have the PH three point seven or something. That's pretty boring stuff. So how are you gonna change my boring dull website and my boring dull point of sale stuff? So what I really believe is that a small voice has a power. I also start it as a small voice. So what I usually consult to small wineries is to follow what in cinema we call the hero's journey. So It's quite a Greek concept as well, there's no the idea of a hero in a journey. Yeah? That's really, if you think about it, it works and especially in social media because now small wineries understand the power of communication, it's important to have a personality. It's like in social life. If you don't have a personality, you disappear. So I think it's very important for a winery to find a unique voice, and this is not very difficult because you can build a voice based on the family that you're talking with. For example, I was talking with the family in Greece. They have three kids, and there is the winemaker, and there is also the wife of the winemaker. The wife is the marketing butterfly. This is a person that knows nothing about marketing, but she loves it. So if you say it with a family and you understand the personalities, each one of them can do something different in a social media they can be their own ambassadors. They can be the best ones. So, basically, you're saying communication direct from the horse's mouthpiece and he's actually direct from the winery itself rather than through a third party that could make you be used. So you what you're saying is you're you're pushing them in the or suggesting they go and direction without actually writing their press releases or anything like that, you're saying develop your own register if you like. For me, I I think that you can break your own voice, but an influencer can also help you. So for example, I can help a winery to be discovered it, but if you want to have a win win collaboration, the winery needs to also to to play its own part. So for example, imagine I post about the winery, okay, a fantastic post, very engaging. You look like a blog post, you talk Yes. You check my post. You click on the winery. How many people do you think that will follow actually the page of the winery? No money. Just a few. Because when you check the page of the winery, if it's not engaging enough, what's the reason you to follow them. So this is why I consulted wineries to build also your own story, and it's not difficult. But this idea of storytelling is is becoming very popular, like, as you talk about this narrative and not making it really boring like the classic you know, my grandfather founded it, dad took over. Now I'm running it full stop to add a little bit of color and personality to it. But, yes, for you, that's kinda like so obvious, but so many weren't in for me. It is, it's, but they just don't do it. And they're always amazed about wine writers or people that like that can write stuff. And I think maybe the fault is that they are terrified of actually writing anything, maybe because they think it's a bit boring or because they know their own history. You know, why would anybody care that my granddad founded the winery in nineteen twelve or something? Is your approach a little bit of, a punk and then a stroke. How do you how do you if I'm a wine or a really boring wine, I've got a great story to tell, but I'm actually a really boring person. How are you how are you gonna get me to listen to you? You know what is very interesting that you can approach actually the kids of the family. At least what I see because currently I was living in Greece, the new generation are those who understand social media. So for example, their father doesn't call me, but they know me. So maybe they will contact me. We're gonna have a coffee or a wine. They will, per sued their parents. That is something that can really work. So for me, the key is to talk to to people of your own of your own needs. And I think it's the same in Italy. Right? I mean, mostly the family run business messes, they also include the the kids now. So from it's very important to talk to a person that he can understand you. I mean, how cost effective? I mean, it's one of your arguments. It's actually a very cost effective way of doing your own marketing. How do you make that argument to them as well? The thing with internet is that it's free and it's there. And for example, no one taught me how to do it. I checked online pages. I did a lot of free search on other pages, how they are successful, what they do, and it's not expensive. I didn't invest money. So think it's all about being effective. Of course, you need to, let's say, invest some money in your in your advertising, but it's way too cheap, especially Facebook. What about investing in just making website is gonna look a little bit nicer or a little bit original. Are you are you more into content or the design of a website, for example, or both? I'll tell you what I believe because, I'm also searching about making my own website because I don't have an actual page for me. You don't. Because now that I run I think I have sixteen different websites. I know. I don't have my my personal, blog. I write on Instagram. So for me, it's not enough. I want to write more things. And while I was doing my research, talking with the developers, etcetera. In my opinion, A winery doesn't have to invest money on making a page because most of the people right now enter in a page, through their mobile. So you don't have to pay money to do, like, a huge design All the people enter from the mobile. So you need a basic user friendly, clean, minimal, design. Nothing more. So so do you do the design as well, or do you get you just suggest keeping it ready. It's basically the kiss, keep it simple. Was stupid. Yeah. Keep it simply. I mean, of course, we can check together some templates and see what they also like. But in my opinion, you just check a very nice simple, minimal kind of, design, and you're okay because in the end, what is really important is your content. And people don't want to be bothered with extremely kind of, funky things. Completeated things. Yes. How, what about in Greece? Are wineries allowed to sell directly? Can they put a sales pitch onto their website? Yes. Yes. And you can order online? Yes. They can do that. And actually, Greece is a market that now invests a lot in the exports. We're a very small market. Mostly, we have, with equinaries because people right now, they don't have really a lot of money to by bottled wines? Do it by in Greece. Yeah. Or the the thing is that because of the last years with the price and everything, the taxes have really affected the prices of the wines. So most of the wine producers are now looking for markets to export. So for us, it's very important to have a good, let's say, online presence, although we're still building or not. And, it's important to invest in these markets because we're small. So we go for, New York, we go for, London, we go for Canada, good markets that we can have very good placement in restaurants, not in in shops, you know, or galas. It's not something that for us will work. How important are native grape varieties in Greece in terms of marketing? Cause it's a big thing in Italy. You know, one of the reasons we have this podcast is banging on about native grape varieties, and obviously Greece has a wealth of them. Is that is that a good angle? Yes. So, you know, in Greece, when people started after, after the sixties, after the boom of Ritzina, and the death of Ritzina, people who started investing money in, let's say producing good quality wine, they understood that if you want to be competitive and you're small, you need to be different. So in the beginning, they were producing Sardener, a cabernet sauvignon, who wants to drink a cabernet sauvignon from Greece. I don't say that it's gonna be bad, but you need to have again your footprint. So people started producing, since the 80s. They invested more in, native varieties, but also we produce a lot of blends for the newbies, let's say, to initiate you to the Greek wine, blends of Greek varieties and international varieties, this. To step by step. Exactly. So you can drink a Greek variety, let's say with Sierra. And for me, this is this is I think very interesting. So sort of hybrid, hybrid wines. So what's your what's your next step? I have a lot of dreams. You take your company public, sales, I don't know, six billion listed on the New York Stock Exchange. What what are you gonna do now? What's your next trade? Are you gonna stay on wine? Are you gonna do something different? Of course, I'm I'm gonna stay on wine. Yeah. I'm very happy that in a very small amount of time, I can be here, for example, talking with you, or I can be here today, sharing after in the present days of my thoughts on the wine communication. So, my my goal is to keep learning to tell you the truth. I don't feel a wine expert, and I want to keep learning about wine. I want to find more ways to engage people who are afraid, let's say, to enter in the wine business or, in the wine world, I want to invite them year. Because in the beginning, when I started, my first steps in the wine industry, I had also people who were saying, okay, why you want to do that? You're not a producer. You're not an expert. Guys, I love wine. Cool. Okay. So I wanna say for joining us today. Are you sure you have to say your surname again? Wineini. Wineini. There's your surname. Go on. My surname. So my surname is Panagopio. There we go. Chemical Engineer turned wine communicator from Greece. Been great talking to you. I learned a lot about your, some of your communication skills and tricks and approaches. And I hope to see you, in Greece. Are you gonna move to Italy at some stage and give the Italian to kick out the bum in terms of wide communication as well? I would love to. Yeah. Let's see what future would would bring. So I don't know. Thank you so much for, inviting me over. Thanks, Kimmy. Thanks, Georgia. Follow Italian White Podcast on Facebook and Instagram.