Ep. 2360 Asem Tusupbayeva | Asia Wine Market: Almaty Special Edition

We are going to focus on consumers. Our three key learning objectives for today are the first one, we are going to discover Arba wine as a local wine producer in Kazakhstan. Second, we are going to understand the consumer profiles and behavior in the Kazakhstan market. And third, we are going to explore the emerging opportunities and consumer perceptions of Italian wines in Kazakhstan son. So let's dive in. Welcome to Asia wine market, Almaty, special edition with me, your host Rosa. In this special series, we're exploring the growing wine culture of Kazakhstan, with almighty at the heart of it all. Each episode will meet with Italian wine professionals, importers, psalms, and producers who are shaping the future of wine in central Asia. Whether you are a winery looking to expand into new markets or a local export curious about the market dynamics, you are in the right place. Hello, and welcome to a new episode of Asia wine market Almaty special edition. And today, I'm excited to welcome as Sam to supplyova. She is a wine columnist independent PR consultant and producer of wine events. She also has a hands on experience at Arba wine, one of the country's pioneering wine producers. She's been actively involved in shaping how wine is presented, understood, and enjoyed both within the industry and as a passionate consumer. She also organizes and hosts consumer facing tastings, And that is why our conversation today will be focused on consumers, their references and perceptions. So welcome, Ms. Sam, we're very happy to have you here today. Hello, everyone. Sending warm greeting from Kazakhstan. Thank you for having me on the podcast. And we are very happy to have you here today. So to begin, could you please share a bit about your background and how your journey in wine started? I personally know that it's a very inspiring career shift So could you share it? I try to focus on the key highlights. So for the first ten years of my career, I work it in finance. But for the past ten years, I've been fully immersed in the world of wine. All began quite naturally. I started attending tastings and quickly became fascinated, but everything about wine, the cultures, the stories, the people. And my passion led me to Arma wine Kazakhani winery that was just launching at the time. I was fortunate to join team early and play a role in the building and promoting the brand from the ground up. Now I'm an independent consultant on media planning and events producer. I also write wine related news and articles for various media. Additionally, organize and host wine tastings. And the most recently, I was honored to be elected head of marketing department at the Kazakhstan's Million Association. Oh, yes. By the way, I forgot to mention that Assam was elected as a head of marketing department. As she mentioned, the marketing department of Kazakhstan Family Association. And I think all of us in the association were very happy to have you. Thank you. And thank you for sharing your story. For me personally, always insightful to hear how professionals find their path into wine. So for today, as I already mentioned, we are going to focus on consumers, their preferences and perceptions in wine. Our three key learning objectives for today are the first one, we are going to discover Arba wine as a local wine producer in Kazakhstan. Second, we are going to understand the consumer profiles and behavior in the Kazakhstan market. And third, we are going to explore the emerging opportunities and consumer perceptions of Italian wines in Kazakhstan. So let's dive in. To begin our conversation, first of all, let's take a closer look at Arba wine, the wine producer who you've been working for for several years. How did the winery come to life? And what do you think made it stand out? Because it's one of the most successful producers in our market. What do you think made them stand out I think our listeners will be surprised to hear that Kazakhstan produces very decent wines, so that's why I think it's going to be an interesting story to hear. Yes. Thank you for the question. When visiting Kazakhstan tasting local wines is a must. In my opinion, Arba wine is a perfect introduction. Every wine maker will tell you, this secret of the grape wine isn't technology. It's in the grapes. And when it comes to the grapes, our bovine is truly fortunate. All key natural factors are given them by nature. For example, the vineyards are located in altitude one thousand meters above sea level. You understand how it influence acidity ripening of the grapes. If we are talking about the geographical location, the vineyards near Almati city, Almati is one of the last cities in Kazakhstan with a population, two million people. And it is located at the southeast of our country. So vineyards are also here. And the soil is alluvial, rich with the stones. It's sandy and clay. And I think one of the most unique aspects of our region is extremely cold winter. Imagine temperature in winter time can drop as low as minus thirty minus thirty five. These extreme cold conditions mean that typical vine pests including Felix Sarah. Simply can't survive here. So combine it with areas geographical isolation, soil composition, and these extremely cold winters allow it to grow own root advice. So here in Kazakhstan, we have ungrafted root vines, and many of the vineyards are forty five, fifty years old. And it's planted during the Soviet era. You know, Kazakhstan former one of the fifteen USSR Republics at that time when it was USSRs. The focus one on quantity of equality. So while making as a craft wasn't prioritized it, And in the mid of nineteen eighties, the vineyards were largely destroyed during garbage off's anti alcoholic campaign and left abandoned for the decades. And, Arba wine for the last twenty years, has been working to restore them with the great results. They have amazing story of restoring old vineyards. And today, they have about fifteen grape varieties like riesling pinot noir, Georgia grapes, like Staley and Sataravi, and international grape varieties, cabernet franc, Sierra, and so on. Any chance you've got some Italian native varieties there? I don't know. I don't have any information about this Okay. That's truly a very fascinating story. And I think it's really something interesting how these vineyards were abandoned for decades. And then also the fact that here we have ungrafted vines which is really a story for the wine world. Uh-huh. Yeah. That's a very fascinating story to share, I think. And also, again, Kazakhstan is not considerate as, typically wine producing country for many wine professionals, wine enthusiasts, it will be very interesting to know. Hope so. Okay. Now looking back to the market site. Could you share with us what were some of the key challenges in introducing Kazakh wine to local consumers. And how did their perception change over time? In the beginning, it was quite challenging. Local wine had a reputation for being low quality, poor quality, and, in our region, wines had never been made using European tradition or modern winemaking knowledge. So changing that perception took time to build trust. We organized regular tools for the winery to show how the things were done, modern equipment, European standards. We also hosted many tasting, especially blind tastings. We help the people to appreciate the quality. Today, the local wine industry is much stronger position and, continue to grow. You know, in our market sales of local wine are twice as high as imported wine. Most of these wines, like, poor quality, really poor quality wines, like bulk wine, but we have several high quality wineries in our country. And I know that Arba wine also organizes the harvest festivals. Quite frequently. I'm not sure if it's twice or three times a year. Could you tell us more about this? How does this event help approach the consumers? Yes. It was like a big PR campaign. So we in Arbor wine had big huge fist of us that gathered together about two thousand people in the end of August. So we have them from twenty fifteen about ten years every year. It's like a music festival, grape festival, and the people from all Afghanistan come here and, enjoy the wines at the nature. We are try to give them our values. Through the nature and, of course, enjoyable time for knowing this brand more and better. And that is actually very important, not just to the winery, to Arwa wine itself, but also to the wine scene in our country in general. Like, we have to look at the bigger picture. The fact that you organize this festival also helps imported wines to sell better because you are educating consumers about wine in general, not just about wines from Arba wine. Sure. It's influenced all wine culture in our country. Yeah. That's true. And I know that Arba wine has worked with some international experts over the years. Can you tell us more about that just briefly? Also, I'm very interested if some Italian consultants or analogous influence your winemaking direction too. Because Afghanistan isn't widely known as a winemaking country. So when Arba was founded, they invited experienced top consultants from Italy to help to build a solid foundation. Among Zem were Professor Mario Frigoni, and, analogist and scientists, Danatolanati. And, their expertise had the great influence on the winery. For example, Mario Figoni, he noted that our area is classified as a mountain vineyards. And Danato Anati and his team were also impressive by the results of molecular analysis of our grapes. And, he concluded that this terrible producing high quality wines. And, that it should. Arbak operated with this amazing professional for quite a long time. And today, founder of the company is in Laka Khumjana already makes wine himself. I mean, he's a winemaker. So we have great cooperation with Italian experts in Pakistan. They appreciate this fact. For me, it's very exciting to know. This cooperation between Italians and Kazakhstan in wine it went beyond just importing wines, but also they helped us create this winemaking direction and cultivate and produce wines here in Kazakhstan with their help. And could you please tell us if the wines are being sold only domestically, or you're also selling wines for the export? Yes. Arba wine had export contracts with grid Britain, Japan, Sweden, China and in other countries. It's not like a lot of wine because winery is not very huge quantity of wine producing is not very high. But some restaurants, high end restaurants and some shops. They are interested in local wines, especially in ARPA wines, and we had some contracts with foreign partners. Okay. Thank you. That's a great snapshot of how local wine is growing. And now let's turn our focus to the people who are drinking wine in our country. From your experience, both at Arba wine and also working with local call wine professionals and also organizing the events. Who are the key groups driving wine consumption in Kazakhstan? Can you share any patterns in terms of age or gender or maybe even profession? In term of age, the main wine buyers now are millennials and, their parents generation generation. X millennials switched it to the wine from the beer about ten years ago. For example, one of them was me. And, now they prefer a bottle of dry with semi dry wine, often white, very often they prefer prosecca or sparkling wine producing classical methods. For example, Spanish, cover very popular in Pakistan. And they pay attention to the price and quality ratio that the price is average. Sometimes they can spend money on a bottle of more expensive wine. As for generation X, they often prefer red wines, semi dry or powerful with tannins, and they like sparkling wines, a c style. They are not ready to pay a lot for wine. And also, I checked with my partner Montte Bianco company who, always support me with the wine and provide me a location for my wine tasting. And as they told me, there's a top three regions, thanks to Primitivo wine and friuli white pinot grigio and Samin Young. In general, Primitivo is popular among different generations. And zoomers don't drink alcohol. I hear that you are disgusted in another podcast before. And among both generations, there are those who have traveled at a lot, tasted, and they usually buy wines like Barola and the amarone. But I don't know, maybe ten or fifteen percent of the wine consumers. Mhmm. So ten or fifteen percent of wine consumers, those who traveled abroad coming back to closing. They also buy Barolo, Barbara. Yeah. Who have a possibility to pay more to buy expensive labels? I think they are, like, about ten or fifteen percent. So you heard our conversation with. Right? Yeah. Right. It's true. Maybe it depends on, I don't know, cultural somethings or maybe to tell the lifestyle, but they have another things. To appreciate some other types of beverages. Yeah. And through your experience with Arba wine and also organizing this harvest festival, I actually thought that many young people much younger than me. They used to go a lot to this kind of festivals because it's not just about wine, but it's also about music, about gathering with people, going to the nature, this kind of life. It's true. It's all about gathering people together, about good time, good vibes, have an amazing time with their friends, and they come to the wine festival, and, it's true. Yeah. So younger generation gen z they're not ready just to buy wine, but they could buy wine if we sell them wine in a different way a little bit through gatherings, through different events, through creating this vibe. Yeah. Right. I think maybe in seven or ten years, they will be, wine consumers. Depends on work that we will do today. But it's true. Actually, for example, when I was twenty years old studying my bachelor's degree, I also didn't drink wine. I didn't know a thing about wine. For me, it was just red and white. That's it. I used to drink beer and cocktails, and then I just switched to wine. So maybe that is also something that they will come in several years. Yeah. It's true. Personally, it's my story also because until my thirty, I always drink only beer. And from thirty years old, I drink only wine. And you've been also actively involved in the wine tastings and wine events both as a guest and also the organizer of events. One of them is wine bar hopping formats, which you did in Almaty, who tends to show up at these gatherings. So what kind of people are engaging with wine through this kind of experiences? In terms of age, background, maybe their motivation, Most often there are people aged, thirty to fifty active successful in their career of business, traveling people. I can share one interesting fact with you. Most of our tastings are attended by woman. Sometimes up to ninety percent of the guests are women, men are less interested, but if they come, usually come with their spouse. But if you look at who buys wine in the stores, more often, that as a rule, it's a man. So people aged thirty to fifty, take wine courses. They are interesting trying different things, going to the bar hopping, to the wine tasting, master classes, so on. That is also interesting to know. I can say from my experience in China, I think it's also the case. Well, companies, if we are talking about b to b clients, most of them, they are men, but if we are talking about some private customers consumer facing events, and most of the people who came were women, the majority, like, more than half. That's an interesting fact. Same in Pakistan. I also wanted to discuss with you one interesting topic probably also heard my conversation with Radmir about Kazakhstan being religious. So I've I've tried to look, at some information. So according to the twenty twenty one National Census published by the bureau of national statistics of Kazakhstan, around sixty nine percent of the population identifies as Muslim while seventeen percent are Christian and less than zero point one percent follow Buddhism and Judaism. So how do you think in a country with such a diverse and predominantly Muslim population? How do you religious and cultural values influence attitudes toward wine consumption. Does this shape how people engage with wine socially and professionally? Does it have a big influence on wine consumption? Yes. Indeed islam is the most white spread religion in Kazakhstan. Muslims make up seventy percent of the population. That's probably why is there's been a growing demand for non alcoholic wine lately. At the same time, it's important that Kazakhstan is a secular state. The country is not Islamic. And, according to the law, we are allowed to buy alcohol from the age of twenty one and, in bars, restaurants, cafes. Alcohol can be ordered around the clock. And, we have only time restrictions for the supermarkets. And, you cannot drink alcohol on the street or public places. I don't know. I couldn't say or describe how it influenced wine people or wine society because I'm not, like, close for the religion people. That's why there is no any expertise for this question. Okay. Thank you for your answer. Could you please tell me how do you think? What is the most intimidating thing when people approach wine in our country? I think like everywhere the fear is the fear of not understanding something about wine, terminology, fear of meeting, snow. And for these reasons, some people are even afraid to go into the wine shop. Imagine. They are afraid that the seller or Pavista Amelia offers them something expensive. That's why when I do my bar hopping tours, usually we visit three bars in one meeting, guests are often surprised by pleasant prices and a large selection of wines. I think that one of the challenges for our professional community is to work with these fears. That has been we need to educate our consumers more and better. Mhmm. Can also probably educate ourselves? Yeah. Sure. To be grounded and be able to explain things using simple language. Approachable language. Okay. Let's go a little bit further into Italian wines. So when it comes to Italian wines, what do you think helps them succeed in Kazakhstan? In your opinion, is it the story? Is it the price point? Is it the flavor or maybe the general picture of Italy that we have in our heads? What makes Italian wines successful on our market among the consumers? First, I want to share with you important information that according to the reports from private marketing agencies last year in twenty twenty four, the leader of import was, Italy in Kazakhstan. So Italians wines are like more than twenty four percent of our market. If we go back to the fifteen years ago, half market leaders was Georgia and moldova, and now market leader is a Italy. So after Italy, followed Spain and the New Zealand, Italian wise, popular because of history of winemaking, I think because of styles and the price range, there is amazing variety of grades, styles, and you can find everything for your money, for example. Casastani's love Italy very much. Perhaps this is due to the fact that in both cultures, family is a important value. I think one of the important keys. And it's important to know that Italian cuisine is very popular in our country. Pasta pizza, risotto, everything, for example, in almaty, we have specialized at more than fifty Italian restaurants. That's mean they, give to their guests Italian wines, of course, with their cuisine. So I think this is our key facts while the Italian wines popular in Pakistan. Okay. Thank you. That is very promising to know for Italian wineries. It's almost time for us to wrap up the episodes. But before doing that, let's end with a quick round of rapid fire questions just for fun and some final insights. So how do you think? What's one key thing Italian winery should keep in mind when entering the cosmic market? In my opinion, consumers value the price to quality ratio and the wines that are too expensive, they need a strong brand. The mid range segment appears more promising, especially when emphasizing a region and as a natural qualities of the product. And we have low demand for the Rosier wines. Don't bet on Rosier, but it's only my opinion. A better aromatic, bright, white varieties or medium or full bodied red wines that is what our consumers prefer. Oh, thank you. That is very practical advice. If you could introduce one new wine trend or grape variety to Kazakhstan, what would it be and why? I think I would introduce a trend of low intervention wines, minimal influence in the winemaking process because in Pakistan, more and more consumers are becoming conscious about composition, origin, the story about what they drink. They need to understand and to know as for the great variety, we choose we have it in our market, but still unknown here in my opinion. And it could be beautiful pair to the meat because we have a lot of meat in our cuisine. So, sunny, rich, and not too heavy. That a would be great prioritizing. Okay. That's also a very practical, very good answer. Thanks a lot. Another question which is not related to wine. If you weren't working in wine, What other profession or industry could you see yourself in? Sooner or later, I would have come to wine anyway. That's my answer. You had a dramatic career shift from banking to wine. So, yeah. Okay. Thank you, Sam, a lot for sharing your insights and also expertise. It's been a real pleasure to get a deeper look into the Kazakhine scene through your eyes. And through your experience. How could our listeners connect with you? They could connect, to me via Instagram is my account page. So it's, possible to connect me via email. I'm always open. Okay. Thank you a lot. Thank you, Rosa, and your team for having me on your podcast again. Thank you. Hope our dialogue was useful for your listeners. And interesting. It will be useful. Thank you again, and ciao. Thank you. Bye. Thanks for listening to Asia wine market Almati special edition. Don't forget to subscribe and follow the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your parts. And if you are curious to discover more about the central Asian wine scene, join us at the Vineet Lake Calleksan roadshow on July seventh. See you in the next episode, and until then, cheers from Almaty.