Ep. 2260 Jessica Dupuy interviews Steven McDonald | Barolo Barbaresco World Opening

What is so great about Nebula for you? I know it is I don't mean to make light of it because I do know that it's something that you love. Right. So, you know, what makes a grape, like, one of the classic grapes, one of the legendary grapes of the world is I think in two ways. One, it has to somehow translate the circumstances from where it's grown. So whether that's soil, climate, the people, but it also has to be age worthy and, you know, become more and more interesting as an age, and just Nebula is that kind of grape. And, you know, it's distinctly Italian, but it has traits that are similar to pinot noir, for example. The other grape, great, you know, wine connoisseurs all over the world or the industry feel is probably the best example of that. Hey, y'all. I'm Jessica Duppuis. Guest hosts for a special series on the Vurolo and Barbaresco World opening twenty twenty five. Presented by landmarks. This fourth edition of BBWO will showcase the latest releases of twenty twenty one, Barolo, and twenty twenty two Barbarresco wines from Piedmont, and takes place in Austin, Texas on March twenty fifth. Join me in the heart of Texas as we delve into the experiences and insights about the terroir of the Longay region and its star great variety, Nebulaola. We'll talk to Smollier's and retailers from the key markets of Austin, Dallas, Houston, and beyond about the alluring wines of the barolo and barbaresco regions. If you enjoy the show, please subscribe, and radar show wherever you rate your podcasts. Note, this series is funded by the European Union. View and opinions expressed are however those of the podcast participants only and do not necessarily reflect those of the European Union or of the granting authority. Neither the European Union nor the granting authority can be held responsible for them. Alright. So Steven Mcdonald, welcome to the Italian wide podcast. I'm so excited to have you on with me. And we can talk a little bit about Varello and Barbara. Fantastic. Thanks for having me, Jessica. This is great. Yeah. So I've known you for a long time, and I am excited to be able to introduce you to kind of the listeners here, but perhaps maybe you could do that introduction. So who is Steven McDonald? Where are you from and kind of You don't have to start with, like, you know, I was born in San Antonio kinda thinking. But just kind of, you know, tell us what you do in Texas and kinda your career in terms of of wine. Yeah. For sure. Wine is the second career for me. So I used to be a school teacher. I was a band director. That's what I went to university for. And so after doing that for a little bit, I moved to New York, and I just found myself in the hospitality industry instead of teaching. And that's where I really caught the bug to be a wine professional. And so after a few years there came to Houston and twenty eleven and got hired by Pappas Brothers Steakhouse, the original in the Galleria, to be a floor sommelier. And so after a couple of years, they made me the wine director. A number of years after that, I passed my master sommelier exam. Then coming back after COVID, things picking back up and us getting a, you know, all of our teams back. They put me in charge of what is now all three locations with Pappas Brothers Steak houses. So the original one in Houston at the Galleria location, one in Dallas, and won in actually Downtown Houston. And currently, they all have wine spectator grand award. They all have a team of Salmoyais and and wine directors. And we the Galleria location just recently won wine list of the year and best long wine list in the world from world to fine wine. So it's big. They're big programs. They're a lot of fun. They're classic. There's something for everybody. It's it's a really fun opportunity for me. Okay. So I'm gonna brag on this a little bit because, we're both from Texas. We know these things, but, you know, Papa's brother's steakhouse. First of all, it's Texas. I think most people can quickly make the association that in Texas steak is a big deal. So Papa's brother's steakhouse being probably one of the best steak houses in all of the state. And as you mentioned, they have one Dallas, two Houston locations, and you mentioned the awards from wine spectator and World Define wine. In terms of the wine programs. And I just wanna make sure that people understand that y'all's list, y'all seller is deep and wide, and not just in terms of selection of what's around the world, but also in terms of vintage Right? Like, what are some of the vintages of things that you have? Some of the more, like, rare older vintages is, like, for example, there's a bottle of Chateau de camp eighteen eleven, right, at one at the gallery location. And there's little things like that with either a hundred or over a hundred years age. You know, I've hired there at the locations, and it's just taking an incredible amount of, first of all, capital investment, but just a lot of time to accumulate the types of products to fill out the wine list and to win some awards. So that was something that ownership was dedicated to almost from the beginning. Yeah. And that's kind of what I wanted to talk about too is just, you know, in America, we think West Coast and East Coast have kind of like the big deal wine list whether that's New York, LA, that sort of thing. But Texas is such a big wine market, particularly in Houston and Dallas. So I just kinda wanna make sure we're shedding light on that, and I think that Papa Brothers does such a great job in doing that for the state of Texas And then one of the other things that I love about y'all's program is your mentorship. You guys have really groomed and brought up a lot of the great sommeliers in Texas over the years. Do you wanna talk about that? Yeah. Well, again, it's a testament to kind of ownership's dedication to education. And, you know, in whatever form that comes in, whether it's a quartermaster, Salmoyais, or wsat, or or however. And so just internally, we focus a lot on that, and we focus a lot on leadership, and program organization. And so, yes, you're right. There are some people who've gone after their time at at Pappas brothers being Assemblyve gone on to be fantastic wine directors or pass whatever credential that they wanna pass. And so all over the state, you're starting to see people running programs that came from half his brother, Somley, a team. So we're really, really proud of that. Yeah. It's pretty awesome. Alright. So let's transition a little bit to the passions of Steven McDonald. One being the fact that, you know, you said you were a school teacher, but let's go ahead and bring a couple of things together here, which is that you weren't a band director, but your dad or somebody was a band director. Is that correct? No. He was he was career band director, but I was a band director as well. We were as well. Okay. Yeah. So you went to university, played my instrument, toured with a show for a while, came back and finished. So that was everything leading up to age twenty two or so, was geared towards music and playing lines. Okay. So that's one passion. The other passion being the Nebula grape. Right. Right. Yeah. So when those passions collide, right? So when I stopped playing my instrument, there was just a whole load of other categories of music to get interested in, and I think, like, probably starting around twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen. Got really passionate about hip hop, and then me and my buddy, Frank Boenton, were really into, like, the comedy side of, hip hop. And so Not just for Nebula, but for the Alagote grape, for the Nebula grape, and we started writing these funny songs, putting videos to them, and they kinda circulated around the industry, but those were really fun. So, yes, I do have the most viewed Alagote video on the internet currently, and maybe like the fourth or fifth most viewed nevialo video on the internet. Which I love. And for the show, it will definitely be linked in the show notes. We wanna make sure people have access to the wonderful musical addition from you. But transition into that, like, what is so great about Nebulaolo for you? I know it is I don't mean to make light of it because I do know that it's something that you love. What's so great about Nebulaolo to you and, potentially also talk about the place where it comes from or what's known to come from. Right. So, you know, what makes a grape, like, one of the classic grapes, one of the legendary grapes of the world is, I think, in two ways, one, it has to somehow translate the circumstances from where it's grown. So whether that's soil, climate, the people, but it also has to be age worthy and, you know, become more and more interesting as at age and just Nebula is that kind of grape. And You know, it's distinctly Italian, but it has traits that are similar to pinot noir, for example. The other great, great, you know, wine connoisseurs all over the world or the industry feel is probably the best example of that. So as you're studying the whole world and you come across that, you know, this grape has a really immense reputation. You start reading about where it comes from. You start tasting these wines, then you start having like kind of transitional or transformative experience with these wines, then, you know, you're completely locked in. And so, you know, Nebula is one of those places where it does super well and really specific places. And, you know, whether it's Burlo and Barbara, other parts of Piamonte, whether it's other parts of the north, and when it's right, it's really right. But it's, like, can be elegant and, like, haunting and incredible with food and the kind of rare bottles that you can, you know, grab and taste with friends or collectors or unlike any of the other rare bottles that they are probably having their sellers. So it's just it's almost endless. Where you can become stay fascinated with the grape. Well, I love that. And let's talk about kind of where it's known to come from. There are a couple of other place regions we could mention in Italy, but the biggest one being Piedmont. Right? So Can you kind of explain that and how that region helps kind of contribute to the versatility of what Nebula can do? Well, I think that, you know, it just so happened that the hills, especially the south facing hills that are in the longue happen to create some of the the best examples. And I think if you were well, like, you know, a hundred some odd years that, you know, it was the places that are gonna get right the best or the most consistently. And, you know, as everything's kinda warmed up and farming's gotten a little bit better, obviously, just general consumer or industry awareness of the grape and these territories have kind of grown, then we start to look at places north of the longue. Right? Like Alto Piamante, like Ghatanara, and Gheme and Boca, and and some of these places that are really kind of out in the middle of nowhere, so to speak, but because people came Through those great examples from the long eight, they're exploring all these other territories that can be really exciting and really much easier on the pocketbook than maybe some of the wines of the long eight as well. I love that. And I think, you know, just in talking about, you know, for the grape itself, you know, mentioning the ageability and complexity that Nebula can offer, it can also offer approachability. You know, and I think examples that you see from the longue for instance are really great kind of testaments to how versatile Nebula can be. Right. And and you you exactly hit hit it on the head where I think, you know, there was an overall consumer trend or wine industry trend to seek out wines that were more elegant, and it just so happened to be something that Nebula could do really, really well. And so to put a more specific point on it. We saw, for example, some really great producers in Brolin, Barbara, making longue Nipyolo, not as kind of some junior version of their bigger, serious wines, but just really fresh and fruity and approachable and coughable. And in some cases, little lower in alcohol, but just really kind of fun and delicious and a little less expensive. And I think that's been a huge lift to the whole category because it's follows along with consumer trends and industry trends and they've been blessed. Well, that area specifically, you know, if you take the last fifteen or twenty years, they've had an incredible amount of successful vintages, you know, compared to against burgundy or or Bordeaux to a certain extent. So there's just a lot more of it. The range of styles is really great, really awesome. And again, like, overall the trend is to make more transparent, more elegant wines, but still keeping that seriousness and that complexity that you need for age ability. Excellent. So let's dig into actually kind of those two iconic regions, I guess you would say, for Nebula, which would be Barolo and Barbaresco. Kind of what are your thoughts of those regions? And how did they become iconic in your mind? In my mind. Wow. Well, I think from a general some way standpoint, they've always been really important, really classic places. And I think for the most part, you know, Burrolo's reputation. So maybe a little bit more broad and recognizable, though, you know, pretty much thanks to Angelo Gaiya, you know, the whole territory of Varesco is very close in that. I think that from our restaurants, specifically, Just from name recognition, Barrola tends to have a little bit of an edge, you know, in terms of sales or if we're choosing something by the glass, we might choose a barolo more times than a Barbara, just because you would know it has a higher rate of depletion, but that isn't to say that, like, again, some of the most legendary wines are coming from both territories. And it's really difficult to make generalizations about the style. Right? If you read old textbooks, they'll talk about the overall general character of barolo as being more kind of big or they use words that seem outdated like masculine and, you know, Bobresco being a little bit softer and more feminine. Again, I don't think you can make those types of generalizations anymore. And there's full range of styles in both territory and people who have really excellent sites and really excellent farming and those that are still trying to figure it out. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and, you know, we can't forget kind of historical trend benchmarkers in, particularly the Barolo region, right? Like the traditionalist versus modernists in terms of, you know, aging vessels and stuff like that, which I don't wanna crack into that too much and create war war attention, but it does explain this diversity of styles as well. Right. Exactly right. So, yeah, take those labels out of it because I don't think that's the the conversation piece anymore Yeah. People who are being traditional versus modern. And The other thing that I think we should probably have with the grain of salt is as that territory, like, split up and or they designated MGA's single sites is that we don't put too much more emphasis on single site wines versus wines that are blended over several sites. I think that's something we gotta be really careful about, but we consistently compare it against burgundy. And, you know, those single sites, you have the ground crews and the premier crews and everything sits in a nice kind of pyramid of quality. And I think, you know, over time, there's been some of the most transformative examples of Berlin and Barbara that have been blends over different sites. There is something special about a single site wine for sure, but I I think we just gotta be real careful about how we perceive them and then how we price them that we're not putting too too much emphasis that they're of some sort of higher theoretical quality. Yeah. I like that. And I think that's really important, an important thing to note. I'm curious kind of what you're seeing in terms of that, like, with Papa's brothers and everything. What are some of the trends? Like, you mentioned, like, you might see more depletion with by the glass Barolo, for instance. But are there any other trends you can speak to in terms of what the demand is or interest is in Barolo, Barbara, either? Right. So, you know, I find that people are still shopping by producer, mostly. And so that's why, you know, versus a burgundian model where we might group it on the wine list by cruise. So you're gonna see all the sharm shamburtans all grouped together regardless of producer. It's sort of the reverse as when we list a burrito and barbaresco Cruisers specifically. So you can find someone's, you know, general burrito. You can find all their single sites. You can find even their reservas in that same cluster of listings because I do think that's how people are are shopping and you can help communicate to the guests more about their philosophy of winemaking as it's expressed in those single sites if you want to. Right? Oh, this producer has a little bit of Khanuby and Khanuby's considered like the grown crew, you know, of all the single sites, even though it may be getting quite hot there, but that's a whole different story. And, you know, introduce the guests to there. So you what's exciting to see from a consumer side is that they're starting to recognize and ask for certain sites. But I think it it's all was all based on, like, getting them into a producer maybe with a good story or a good reputation. And then it's relatively easy to help them navigate to a successful vintage within the range of vintages that we have. So, you know, it's nice to see the consumer engaging at several different points while they're shopping for serious nevial based wines, I think. Right. And just in terms of what you're offering is, do you find that Italian wine in general, but then more specifically, Barolo, Barbasco, command as much interest as I mean, I know, you know, we've talked about Burgundy, maybe Bordeaux, we I mean, it's a steak restaurant. So the big reds are gonna be in there, but kind of where do you see it fitting in? Yeah. I I think specifically for Houston, They have a lot more French awareness and their points of entry on Italian wines is sort of where they've traveled. And so they have traveled to, you know, Tuscany, and they're starting to travel more to Piamonte. So you have better points of contact and points of excitement for the guests now than you did maybe even ten years ago. Because I think in general, people are just traveling more. Now If I were to go to Dallas, what's interesting about Dallas is that they're kind of general average knowledge of Italian wine seems to be just a little bit more. And, you know, they're still kind of a real American, California focused market, but they really do like their Italian wines and they kind of ask for them warm. I think you still, like, if you have a guest that's interested in Italian wines, you're still up against the other great regions in the country. And so you are, you know, pitting this against really great examples of Bernelo, Ambroni, in some cases, Tarazi, but, of course, a lot of people are really excited about Aetna and Sicily in general a lot because they're traveling there more and also because they watch the TV show. Right? So but all of those things are super helpful. I don't think I've seen a time when awareness of these territories and wines has been higher. So, like, I'm really encouraged as to where this is all headed. I love that. And then I'm curious, you know, just based on kind of what you know of Papa Brothers Brothers menu, which, yes, it's heavy heavily on steak, but there's a lot of different ways you can cut that. Sorry for the pun. In fact, you and I, a long time ago, I remember sitting down with Justin Van and gosh. Was Jack Mason there? I can't remember on this, but, like, having a sherry or, right, where, like, multiple different cuts of stake were paired with different cherries. And I'm curious, maybe if you could talk about, like, for you at Pappas Brothers, what do you want when you're gonna pour? And this could just be you or for some people who are just Uber interested. What Barolo or Barbara is really a good pairing for some of the things that you guys have there? All of them. You know, but we're obviously a really classic steakhouse that, you know, we specialize in dry aged products. And so you know, I think the tendency would be, well, you would want a more marbled cut to go with higher tannins, and that's certainly true. The reality is that this venue is just high volume flavor just across the board. And what's interesting and then very fresh ingredients and very vibrant flavors, but they're very, you know, intense flavors, very loud flavors. And I think that echoes a lot into the ethos for the Italian table, and so it makes it such a natural fit for Italian wines because they're gonna those wines are gonna speak loud enough to hold up to any combination of really intense flavors. So, you know, obviously a great one is, lamb. We have a great lamb chop on the menu and I make a a kind of a reference to that in the song too because I do think like aged Nebula and Lam is a really special pairing, but I just, I mean, I love it with any of those dry aged products the strip is probably the sweet spot for, you know, the right amount of marbling. It does see the dry aging. And you'd be surprised, like, even the more kind of elegant, fresher examples of Burrol and Babresco will still hang in there. As those wines age or let's suppose somebody's deciding to age in, you know, some new oak and it kinda has a more hearty oak influence, just the intensity of those flavors are hanging in with the more earthy flavors of a dry aged product. So it's really the full rain. We've done plenty of dinners with producers from Barolo and barbaresco specifically and paired an entire menu. We have guests that come in and we'll do three or four examples in a row paired with their entire meal, which is a little tricky towards the beginning of that view. But I think versatility there is probably one of its most valuable characteristics, just of those wines in general. I love that you kind of explained that because there's versatility to your state menu that kinda does, yeah, let those wines speak for themselves in different ways. So one of the things that you'll be doing over the next few weeks is participating in the BBWO. You'll be doing two master classes, one in Dallas and one in Houston. This will be for trade. This will be master classes for other sommeliers in those particular markets. When you're educating about Borolo and barbaresco. What are some things that you wanna make sure people take away about the wines from those regions? Yeah. I think on the trade side, kind of what we were just mentioning is that there are certain certain ideas that we should probably get away from in terms of over generalizing about these territories, about the wines. For example, you know, Nebula is an incredibly tannic. It has a incredible capacity for, like, natural talent. Right? And I'm sure over the course of the class, and I don't have the lineup specifically, but just in general, you know, there are some examples that aren't so over Lieutenantanic or assertive Lieutenant Right? So I think we have to find different different sets of descriptors, like, and be careful not to overgeneralize to our guests. We certainly want to prepare a guest for what, you know, they're gonna try. And learn how to, like, ask the right questions because if this is all trade and they have contact with their distributors and their importers and their producers, that we're asking the questions that are gonna matter to either what's in the glass or how your guest is shopping. Right? So, obviously, some of that's gonna be in the form of technique both in the winery and in the vineyard. Knowing some of these sites, there's a lot of single sites in both Berlin, Barbara, and if we had to make a list of the ones that consistently have the highest reputation, then we should probably know those ten. Also, the ones simply that the producers feel are the best examples of their territories because if you ask them, they might have a different answer than maybe someone who's just an enthusiast. So it kinda clearing up some of the overgeneralizations, like seeing how we can rethink about the region, how we can engage, and get excited, get there more. It's a really easy place to go and visit, and I encourage everybody to go and visit, and to know the foods from that region and just go and make friends. I'm glad you brought that up because you actually go quite a bit. In fact, you've brought your family wet for, like, a couple of months in the summertime to live in Alba or nearby. Is that correct? Yeah. Yeah. And just yeah. Exactly. And a little, like, airbnb just outside of Alma. But, yeah, there's a really reasonable place. There's a little bit to do with kids, but, yeah, they're good sports, and it's an easy like I said, it's an easy place to get to. So we like going there. Yeah. I think that's really important. And I love that you brought up that, you know, more people are traveling to other regions of Italy that can expose them to this. And Pemonte is certainly being one that's just it's super beautiful. And I think one that you You really have to see to understand that. So, you know, I didn't wanna brag too much on you at the beginning, but I will just mention to everyone that Steven recently won Michelin, Texas Somelier of the year. So congratulations to that. And the re the reason I wanted to spotlight that for you is just because kind of from our perspective, just what an important piece of the puzzle you have been in terms of helping bring more sommeliers through their education process and mentoring and things like that. I'm curious if you could also talk about kind of you're educating them to help them know more, but ultimately because of the hospitality angle, you're also educating them to help consumers more. So what do you think you want consumers to be able to take away? Like, if they're able to go to the BBW thing in March, for instance, in Austin, like, they're gonna be experiencing so many different producers, so many different wines from the regions. What are some things you want them to be able to think about as they're walking around? You know, a couple things. First, I think that, you know, a lot of these producers just make a really, really tiny amount of wine by comparison to some of their most to the more famous regions. Right? And I think that's something to keep in mind always because I think to a consumer, a place like you know, Bordeaux might be in their mind as famous, but Bordeaux makes a bazillion times more wine than, say the long day does. Right? So I think that that's something that you gotta keep it kind of foremost in your mind as the consumer's like, man, I'm really it's really awesome that I get a chance to try these because, you know, these don't get around very often. The other thing is, like, just a little basic vocabulary. Right? So, you know, knowing or being able to recognize, okay, well, this is a single sight line versus when maybe with a fantasy name, knowing kind of what longue means, right, or longue Nibiola. So you're able to understand that a little bit better. And then maybe have, like, a little understanding about the types of food that they're typically going with so that, you know, the intensity or say, for example, the asset or the tenant profiles in these wines don't surprise you too badly. Right? Just a a few things, you know, engaged. You're gonna find that everybody super friendly asking questions about sustainability and what they're doing in the vineyards is also really important because I think, you know, Italians do a really good job with that. Anybody who's traveled there and has eaten a bunch of food and not felt sick or bloated knows that, you know, overall their farming is really, really good across the board. So, you know, just engage, learn some words, you know, try as many things as possible. That's always my advice to anybody. It's just literally try as many things as possible without getting too drunk. Yeah. Maybe maybe bring a spit cup with you, you know, but no judgement here. No judgement at all. But I love that because I think size is a really important thing to remember. Yeah. We're used to either, you know, large high volume producers in some of the larger regions of the world, but you're right. I mean, this is there's a lot of artisan kind of level wine from here and What a great opportunity to have a walk around where you can taste a lot of those that may not even be something you see often on the market. Maybe there have only been on wine lists in restaurants and harder to find on retail this would be a place to be able to kind of explore some more that you may not have tasted before. And vintages too. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just ask them about vintages because you'll see their face change, like, know, it's like you're interacting with a producer. They're like, oh, this vintage was in there, like, oh, this vintage was and see if it matches up with how the wines are drinking. And sometimes it does, and sometimes it doesn't. So that's the other piece. That's a great tip. I love that. That's perfect. And you're right. I mean, they get excited about vintages in the same way that they get excited about their different kids. Right? Because it they're, you know, each band is very, very different. Alright. Well, let's end up on the food note because you've brought it up a couple times. You've spent quite a bit of time in Pimonte And so maybe you can tell us about some of that food. What are some of the things that you absolutely have to have when you're there? Annual. And so they make a kind of inch annual low tea there called annual low tea clean, tiring. So the skinnier noodles, typically in a meat sauce. Both do well, but tiring, especially with, like, truffles is pretty magical. You know, there's which is a really interesting more kind of a wintery dish with veggies. It seems really healthy, but it's very you know, it can make your breath stink a little bit. The a little bit more challenging too is a starter. Like, you definitely wanna to try all the versions of Vitello Tonato. So, you know, veal with a tuna sauce doesn't sound super exciting, but I guarantee you're gonna have a few that are really good. Yeah. And then just put truffles on everything. I think that's the answer to every meal, just as many pastas, as many truffles as you possibly can. I love that. So, like, the fall is just an amazing time to go when the white truffles, especially, are kind of on, you know, people are on the hunt for them at that time. Okay. I wanna go back to some of those because so Vitello Sonato, you're right. Like, it's not something that people are are thinking really veal and tuna, but it becomes mysteriously addictive to me anyway. Like, I wanna try it everywhere. But go back to and I'm probably gonna say it wrong, but the banyakalda, is that? Uh-huh. Okay. Yeah. Yes. So that I was actually reading kind of what's in that the other day, and I found it really fascinating. So, I mean, it's olive oil and butter heated up with a lot of garlic, a lot. Yeah. I think anchovy too. Yeah. So then they add, like, kind of a minced anchovy into it, but it's essentially a dip. You're where you're kind of dipping vegetables, which could be anything from a carrot to celery. But I think in Pemonte, there's, like, a particular thistle that they use. And I'm I don't know how to say it, but Yeah. That might be advanced Banyakada that I don't know that type of edge. But, like, my wife's mom is, Piedmontese, so we just have, like, a tray of vegetables and we just dip it. Yeah. Yeah. All sorts of types of vegetables. Well, Steven, thank you so much for joining us today. I wanna apologize in advance for all of my poor Italian pronunciation, particularly of, you know, not even gonna say the foods again, but and Alba and Piedmont say instead of Piedmont and Alba, that sounds so Texan. So you do a much better job. But thank you so much for your time, and just kind of, you know, breaking the things down for us when it comes to Barillo and BarBresco and giving us some tips because I look forward to walking around and kind of taking some of those with me when I'm at the tasting in March. But thanks for what you do for Texas and also for Pappas Brothers, and I look forward to coming back in again soon. Thanks, Jessica. Thanks for listening to this special series on the Barolo and BarBaresco World opening twenty twenty five. If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe and rate us wherever you listen to your pod casts. Special note, this series is funded by the European Union. View and opinions expressed are however those of the podcast participants only, and do not necessarily reflect those of the European union or of the granting authority. Neither the European Union nor the granting authority can be held responsible for them.