Ep. 1746 Charlotte Ho Interviews Federico Graziani | Clubhouse Ambassadors’ Corner

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Now I can hear you. Okay. Alright. So I pressed the record. Okay. Here we go. Thank you. Who's recording? Are you at the office? I'm at the office. I am recording. Oh, thank you. Okay. You see, I have, like, I'm on my four g now. Hopefully, it'll last because I don't know. I was recording on the Zenkosta, and there were some problems. So you guys are killing me, you and Elena. Okay. Alright. It's like the marathon today. Okay. So Don't mind me, you guys. Hello, everybody. My name is Stevie Kim, and welcome to the Ambassador Corner. And today, our Farfetch hat is with Federiko graziani. As you know, this is called it used to be called Italian wine club. Now it's called Italian winehouse. There's basically nobody except our Italian wine ambassadors. I think we need a shout out we need to give a shout out to our Italian wine ambassadors. You gotta push that clap button like a yes. Oh. Oh, special effects from Verona because I'm in front of Corta today. It was crazy because as soon as I entered the room, there was a strong, strong, like, fan going. It was so noisy. I called the reception. They turned it off, and now they're more blonde. So and the wifi is bad. So we'll see what happens. Oh, Alice Wong just joined us. And we have Elena, Susana, Julia Valentina, Angie, Cynthia, and Alice Quuck from Hong Kong and Alice. Thank you so much, you guys, for manning that Vineet International Academy, Hong Kong edition, and thank you so much now onto our show. So, Ambassador Escona, you know the deal. I think everybody knows by now, we replay the entire episode on Italian wine podcast on replay, and that's where we get lots of lots of listens. It's actually very geeky, but people seem to really love this series. And today's host is Charlotte Ho. Charles Charlotte. Charles, how's Stevie? Okay. Where where are you now? I'm in Hong Kong right now. Okay. So you're with Alice and Alan. Kelly's our Italian wine Ambassador. Tell us a little bit about yourself to our audience. So I am, Italian wine Ambassador from Via, since last year. I did the course, in Hong Kong, last summer. Before that, I actually also did the Maestro course. Actually, it was during COVID, when I couldn't travel to Italy that I started, you know, systematically studying and learning about Italian grapes and wines at apart from, you know, volunteering in events and tastings in Hong Kong. I also, started in Instagram dedicated to sharing, my love and knowledge for Italian wines. What is it called? It's called those wine moments. So some of you may already follow me. First of all, thanks, Stevie, for inviting me to co host today's podcast. So those of you who know me or, you know, drink with me will know that I'm a huge fan of Aetna wines. In fact, this is my second Italian wine podcast, and the last episode I did was also an interview with another Aetna producer. But, yes, back to Federico. So to me, federico, Rosianese Wides, give me a sense of familiarity, because it strikes a chord of harmony and resonance with my own personal experience falling in love with Aetna, as well as wines of Aetna, to me, you know, as a celebrated Sommelier, federico would have tried so many brilliant wines all over. Right? But he fell in love with this magical place that he will be telling us more about. And even though he himself was not an Aetna local, He still decided to take the leap, you know, a leap of faith and has decided to dedicate his life now to making wines on Aetna. I mean, for those who have been lucky enough, like myself, to have met Federico in person, you will also understand what a gentle and humble person he is, his wines taste, of course, fantastic, but not only do his wines taste fantastic, but they also express, you know, the Aetna terroir, but they also tell you in a way the kind of person, that is making the wine. You know, I'm really lovely gentleman that today I have the great pleasure to interview. So finally, I think I just wanted to add that I I actually visited Federico in Sicily about two months ago, and tasting wines in Federico's vineyards is beautiful because you will be sitting under, you know, several ancient olive trees, including one that is, over like eight hundred years. So, Charlotte, tell us a little bit about what the learning objective for today's call with federico. Several things that I hope to get Federico to share with us today, apart from, you know, introducing his wines and his vineyards obviously, we will talk a little bit about the native varieties on Aetna that many of us in the audience should be, familiar, such as Caricante, Nerella Maskalese, but also, Alicante and Franchesy. So secondly, I would like to also explore Federico's choice, including certainly maybe not so obvious, international grape varieties, in making an Aetna white wine, and how these grape varieties perform in the volcanic terra of Aetna. And finally, just Federico's advice for anyone maybe considering a change in career to work in wine or, you know, anything that he could share with us, from his own personal experience in taking a leap of faith to become a winemaker. Fantastic. I'm very much looking forward to this. If I can get my wifi straightened out, I feel like I'm in a third world country. Charlotte, you take over. Yep. Please, I can come back to us the end of the show. Okay. No problem. Before I introduce, Federico, maybe I can just also quickly mention that how I discovered Federico's wines, because I was trying out a lot of Edna wines, in Hong Kong during COVID when I was stuck there. And the first thing that struck me when I tried federico's wine, was in fact the name of the wine, profumo de volcano, in which he will talk about later. But literally, that means the perfume of the volcano. And this name just right away, you know, sort of blew my mind, and and it provoked such a mysterious sensation that for me isn't forgettable. It just stuck with me. So the wine was so special that, as, you know, I've just mentioned, I I have a wine Instagram. Actually, the first ever post that I've posted on my Instagram, about Italian wise, is a post on profumotive volcano. So it does say a little bit about how special Federico's wines are to me. There you go. Love it for sight. Exactly. How many Atno wines have you tried in your life? Well, quite a lot. So I would probably need to count after the podcast and and sort of let you know later. Yeah. Okay. But it was a Alrighty. Listen, we're going to do it again next year. So you need to come next year. Alright. So let me introduce Federico. Federico Graciani was just fifteen years old when he decided to follow his passion and enroll in his first, sommelier course back in nineteen ninety. His passion would soon become his vocation as he carved out a living in the world of wine. In nineteen ninety eight, he was awarded the best Amelia in Italy, an official recognition that offered him the opportunity to work alongside Gualtiero Marquezi, Stefano Cavalini, Bruno Lopez, Car Carlle Crackle, as well as Ayimo and Nadia Murrani. So very impressive, without further ado, let us welcome federico graziani. Chao Federico. How are you? And very well. It'd be nice to have you here. Okay. Yeah. So, I mean, I gave a very brief introduction about you just now, but maybe I should let you introduce yourself, to us and tell us a little bit more, about your own story how your life and wine started, how it evolved, and how it brought you to where you are now making these beautiful wines on Mount Aetna in Sicily. Thank you. About this question, I it would take, yeah, a a bit. But time, because it's, it's a long story. As you said, I started the, like, for pleasure to do the best cost of somebody when I was fifteen. So I and in, the last thirty three years, I'd say, I have always been in the wine. If you take, the wine of my life, it doesn't really last much. First course, second, third, I was studying a hotel area in, in the eastern side of Italy. I'm from Maravina. So a small town on the Aviatic coast. So not an area where big wines are not very famous for restaurants, but I had the dispassion for service and wine, and I became, Sommelier of imported restaurant, as you said, like Walter Marquesi was, yeah, open minded of my, of my career. And then other important, I I've been working in London for three years. So this was very important as a summary to, I could discover, worldwide wines, compared to Italy where just these days, we are starting to drink a lot of foreign airlines, so Mhmm. In France and and Germany. So it was quite important for my, yeah, for my pallet to to have the chance to work in London. And, and after I came back, to Milan for the opening of Carol Craco. So it was quite, important while this was more than two thousand two hundred. The labels was a Oh, impressed It was a fantastic wine list. It was a dream, a familiar dream wine list. And, but when he stopped working for Caro Craco, I decided to start university with, Atilo Shenza. So he was in Milan at the time. I was in Milan, so I decided to follow his course. Mhmm. And was so important for me, because it's, you know, in very well, it's, it's amazing for me how how we can, transmit all all the knowledge. Knowledge. Yeah. Yes. I had the chance during this period to write a little bit about, wines. So from two thousand and six to two thousand. And I would say, twenty twelve, I kept writing, some books, mainly about Italian wines, but, yes. In my past, in my past life. And I have to say, yes, in two thousand and eight, I was working in restaurant. I was working as a so many at the IMOenadia in Milan. And I discovered a little vineyard that was going to be explained at, after one month and was, at that time, was my second time in, in Natenna. So I decided to, to save this little vineyard It was very small. It was just half an actor, but, was very important for me because, was a starting point in a fantastic, unique wine region. At that time, consider Aetna was, was not as, known as today. No. It's, it's little. I mean, it's just fifteen years ago or little bit more, but, it's, it's very important, how we develop. I would say more than two hundred one of these are growing since then. So I was in the first forty, and now we're more than two fifty. So it's, really exploding as a, as a thorough artist, and he found some very unique, things that we might discover in, in time during this chat. Sure. Okay. Next up, I will ask you to tell us a little bit more about the location of your vineyards, and that's something you already touched on, just now. But apart from the more known north and slope of Aetna, where I think a lot of these two hundred wineries, that that are at least internationally known have their vineyards on. I know you also have vineyards on the western side of the volcano, which is, you know, less known to the international audience. Some of the vineyards are are close to Bronte, which is most famous for Pistachio, right? So Exactly. Yeah. Can you maybe tell us a more, a bit more about these vineyards? And also, in particular, why you decided to work on vineyards, also on the western slopes Actually, you know, but maybe some, some of your guests don't. I, I don't live always in Sicily even if I do one hundred percent, today, I, I work just for, for, for my one year. Hundred percent, but, I live close to Venice in, Corneliano. So you can imagine, how not, easy is to to have a one way, one thousand two hundred meters, to one thousand three hundred kilometers away from where you live. So it was very important at the time to focus on a very small area. Even because, the people working, with me in the vineyard are from all from Van Dazzo. And I couldn't afford, actually, to have, vineyard in the eastern side is too far away. It's just a thirty five, thirty, forty kilometers. It's not much, but it takes more than one hour to get in the other side. So if you imagine first of all, it's, you know, you lose a lot of time to go from one side to the other, but the most important thing is these people working in my vineyard are crucial for the quality of my wine because they're under they always, they always control the area, they know, whatever is happening, I'm talking about, climate wise. And, it's so important. The locals know best. It's very important for them to be to to know everything. And, by climate, the northern slope of Aetna and the eastern slope of Aetna are very, very different. If you imagine, the rainfall, it's, about one thousand, one thousand, one hundred millimeters per year in the northern slope from eight hundred nine nine hundred. It depends. But in the eastern side, it goes up to one thousand five hundred and one thousand eight hundred. So it's one of the most rainy area in Sicily, but I would say in most of Italy. And, as you can imagine, it's so important to be, always on that side, continuously. And, that's why I try to focus on the Notion's log, very close to Randatsu. So I All the vineyards for the red are between, pastubicaro and Montalaguardia. They are two very, quite famous villages for red. And as you were mentioning before, the white, the white vineyard, the white grape vineyard, it's inside the Bronte common. So it's north and west. It's already after Randatsu. So it's considered as, west, north and west. So It's outside the DOC, right? It's outside the CG almost. Because the the DOC in the northern slope is it it end up eight hundred meters above the sea level. Whilst the vineyard, I bought, it's one thousand, nearly one thousand two hundred meters of the speed level. So it slipped four hundred meters above Above. Yeah. The limit. And that's why it's outside the doc because of this reason, because Bronte is not inside the doc. You have just north and east and south as a doc common, inside the doc. And the last, as, as you were mentioning at that altitude, that the Karicante, the native variety from, Etna, don't write, don't write, as well. So, Starbo forty before me. And, myself, we decided we decided to plant some, Northern European variety. I integrated them. And today, I have a vineyard with four different variety. Those are Renand Riesling, Shannon Blanc, Gevous Kraminer, and Grerecanigot, that is the only native variety that is actually ripening at that altitude. Okay. Interesting. So maybe with our further due, let's talk about your your white wine, since we were talking about the the the the vineyards, where the white varieties are grown. So for the audience, Federico's signature of White wine is, Maranueve. And Maranueve is probably the most interesting white wine from Aetna that I have tasted so far. It is a white blend. So as Federico mentioned, not, you know, just, Karicante, but also there is Grechanico, but there is also international varieties such as riesling, Gavousramina and Shenin Blanc. So can you tell us a little bit more about your Maranese, how you decided on this blend Actually, Marneve was, born in my mind, by driving with Salo forty from, northern to Eastern slope of the we were taking this road called Marneve, and I asked Sabo. That's, weird. It's a fantastic name. Who who's calling Marneve is, it's fine. He said, I don't know. I don't think anybody. And and he said, okay. You'll do it. You keep it this time. And this was, like, twenty ten, I think. I didn't have him twenty eleven, maybe. I didn't have him mind to produce white wine, but, I registered the name because I thought was a fantastic name for a white one. It's beautiful. Yes. So, yes. So it's an existing name. It's not, something I invented. Vintage. Yep. If we propose it. And I think it's very important because it's a road that goes from, actually, from the eastern side. So he started in Milo, and he goes, that he's very close to the sea, and he's, looks at the sea. And it goes up to the refugee where you have the script for skiing because, you know, you can ski on it now. Two thousand From the sea to the snow. Yeah. Exactly. It goes up to two thousand two hundred meters above this level. This refugee called piano and Santa. And then it goes down to the northern slope, because, the, the, it end up in lingua Glouza. That is connecting with the two, the two slope of the Aetna. Where where I produce sort sort of this wine. So it's quite, you know. Italian wine podcast brought to you by mama jumbo shrimp After twenty seventeen, I decided to add, the Karicante. So the Karicante doesn't drive at that altitude in, Bronte. So I decided to ran a little bit, a little vineyard, by Sabo Hote on the eastern side. So, actually, from Milo. And we have this one that is, connecting the two slopes, like the Right. Yeah. I think it's, it's quite big wine. I have to say, compared to even my red wines, I think today, itemized growing very well. Growing very fast. We are very the wines are better than fifteen years ago for sure. So I it's easy for me to, to recommend the ten, fifteen, twenty other very good ethnic producer. They make, very good ethnic red. As they do, but it's more difficult to, to try to find a substitute to Marroneve because it's so unique in blend, and, and, and I think it's, one of his, point of power is is You cannot replace it. If you like it, you have to come back to Martin Avenue. Yes. Exactly. So for the latest, vintage, that has been released, what what are the percentages of, of the various, grapes? Like, I mean, after the first vintage in which the Karicante was not there, I decided to pass the Karicante to make it a bit less aromatic and, a bit more related to Aetna. And I have to say, so sixteen was my first vintage. And, since, seventeen, I would say the blend is more or less, very similar. And it would I, you know, I would say it's about thirty percent of, Karicante, twenty five percent of Guivutraminer and Rennan Riesling, another twenty five percent. Fifteen percent option in blank and five percent of Grechanical. And Greganico actually is, yes, just a few plants on the borders of, of the vineyard. The idea was to try to produce a wine, very, very, thin, very delicate, And so still in verification, I try to do as less as possible. Try to keep it as thin as possible, very thinkable. Alright. So regarding the the Gavuzramena, it's it's quite an unusual grape that you would expect from an Aetna white wine. Was it correct that there was already some Guervous tremina in the vineyards, or did you decide to, to plant it there? Actually, I found riesling You found them there. Right? Okay. It was Salbo forty. I'm, I'm working with Salbo forty in the vineyard. We have the same guys working in the vineyard. So I, I think it's very important for me to have, is helpful because, living so far away, apart from the fact that I'm, I'm far away from them, but that they are really the best people to work in the vineyard. I met in, many area in Italy. So it's, it's very important for me to work with them, because they're very capable of intending the Alvarado. I just work with the Alvarado system. This is very labor intensive. And So, yes. As as a or at that altitude, you had very little choices because the normal variety that don't ripen that altitude. So we he looked for Northern European variety. I integrated it with Shannon because I think, it's one of my favorite variety as well. And added some complexity with the Caricante at the end. I think today we have this blend that is quite unique. The words gave us a little bit of, of course, of, on the nose already immediately. The, reasoning brings some minerality. I have to say it's, it's a sort of, as a taste, the single, vines are they, they taste a little bit like, in the lular valley. Think of the sauvignon from They are not as aromatic as other soybeanion. And I think this is happening a little bit in the volcanic soil as well. Yes. I was going to ask you about, you know, how the volcanic soil influence, place that riesling, and, especially the riesling, they give us, I mean, but that's not the reasoning. They are quite ambled by the volcanic soil. They are not as blowing in, in aroma as they should be in, or as they are in other no volcanic soil. And I think this is very important for the palate. And, And I try to help to keep this aroma very low by, for example, by harvesting the Gewestra mineral about one week before. I don't like very aromatic wines. This should be quite clear. At this point, But at the same time, I think, the Guusa Miner is very important in the blend of Marneve, because it gives some, nuance of, brose, lichey, white peach. And the idea is to keep it very, very white. Then I believe they give us a mineral going to alcoholic because they, they give us a mineral, tend to, get a lot of sugar. And I don't like very alcoholic wines. And by the other side, I think it's very important not to have a tropical fruit because it's, maybe more powerful, but, less, less elegant. And I look for elegance in wines. No. And and if anything, the Modernerve is very elegant. It's it is, nothing that is heavy at all. So I think, I I definitely agree, with with what you've done there. Just a quick, I I note that there's a question from the audience. Louis asked about whether there is a varietal label shown in block, or one hundred percent. So I guess we've kind of answered it already. It was, the marinosa is a blend. Yeah. It's not a one hundred percent, varietal I tested the, give us time in there by itself because I harvest before the other variety. Mhmm. They gathered three variety. They are verified together. So I wouldn't know today. I don't have enough quantity to make us more unification by itself. So, I actually don't know how it tastes that single, and I'm, right, on ethics. But, maybe in the future, who knows? Who knows? Okay. Maybe, let's move on to your red wines. I mean, I talked about the profumo, Difocano is in my intro. Yeah. Perhaps you could tell us, your story about this wine. Yes. As I, as I was, starting to say, I was a happy sommelier. Just got my degree at university in winemaking and medical. Just going for two thousand and six, went, to Sicily because I this is some wines, from, and I was like, this is not necessarily, I know. Let's go and have a look. As I did many times in many one region, I did it, I would say, all my life. In, probably in three, four continents. And, I mean, that's what's part of my, of my beauty, you know, to go and visit the producer and taste wines and, stuff like that. And so I decided to go. I decided to go in two thousand and six for the first time. And I discovered a unique, terroir. I met, fantastic people like Andrea Fanchetti, like, Marco de Grache from Temuto Taranere. Yes. And, Salbo forty, with Salbo forty, it was like a friendship started like, I was more in line with many things, So I decided, I didn't decide. It's just we kept, we kept, on our friendship, and we started to talk, more often than than the other producer. So, was two thousand and eight when I decided to Actually, I was, doing a itinerary on, on Italy because I was, doing a book. The book is called Vineid Outdoor. And I was, like, interviewing many people So I started from, Milan, and I went down, and I went to soldera, to my Tacoma. Mhmm. Sort of, trip, during, during vacation where I was doing interview to all these people. And, Salvador forty offered me to stay for a few days. In his, little house inside the, the Pacificaro area where he produced the Evinopetra. And so I decided, yes. Thanks. So I stayed there for a few days. I was, keep writing, so finishing my book. And, you know, the day I was, like, giving the key back to him. We were having Agranita in the Pasmicarra. There is one single bar in Pasmicarra. So it's a very old village. You imagine how small, few hundred people only And, this, actually was, very important because, the day I was giving the key back to him. The butcher of Pascasharo came in and asked him a suggestion and help about explanting a small vineyard all the small vineyard next to his. And, oh, I said, Salvo, please. Let let's go and have a look because I, you know, I, I had a fantastic, feeling about old vines, I love all vines and was like, let's go and have a look. And so that's our stuff. I asked Vasalvo to help me to save this little vineyard. Actually, it remained like a sort of, hobby for me. For a few years, quite expensive hobby, but an obi. An expensive perfume. So, yes, that's how it started. So that's that little vineyard that you talked about from the beginning is the vineyard that's producing the, the grapes for the wine of profumo de Vocano. Exactly. Exactly. Okay. I have to say for about six years, profumo de Vocano always been from that single vineyard. In twenty seventeen, I bought I found, and I bought another half an actor, still hundred years old vineyard. As an average, you have, average vineyard. You don't have a single page of vineyard. And so today, I have two plot. Of about half an hour each. And, so since in twenty nineteen, I have, sort of doubled my, performed with kind of bottles from fourteen hundred to three thousand big numbers. Yeah. And I'm very, very lucky to to be able to to taste them all the way across the world in Hong Kong here. Well, in the profumo, you you have other native varieties. I I guess, you know, if anyone's from these old vineyards, it will be sort of, a mix of, you know, some of these native varieties, alongside the the the the Narel Moskaleza and Capucio. And I'm aware there are alicante and franchisee Yeah. So most of us in the audience, well, will be familiar with Nirello Moske and Capucio, but perhaps, Alicante on Aetna, but also Franchesy is something that we would be less familiar. Can you maybe tell us a little bit more about how these I know they aren't in great, sort of quantities in the wine, but how how would these, other grapes contribute to the result wine? Actually, yes. This is a good question. We know today at Naro. So it's made, seventy, no, eighty percent, at least eight percent, Narel Moskaleza, and the rest is Narelka Pucha. So those two are IP to play the game. Mhmm. But if you look if you have a old vineyard, the period in which we decided to have just Miromascale. It's just from second world war. So, actually, even after it was, like, from the sixties when, the EOC Aetna, decided to have justinero Lomascaleza and Capucho. So in the old vineyard, it's, it's a mess. As you say, we have an alicante, and we have a franchisee, but also we have in the perform evil kind of vineyard, at least fifty plants of white grapes. So there are, there are there. It's a, it's a garden. You don't, if, you don't take them off. It's like most of them are pre philosopher. And so they, they have been together. They have been together all their rights. And, for me, it makes sense to take them together. Of course, there are difference between, Old Vineyard and new vineyard, because, as you can imagine, by a verification point of view, it's much easier to work with one variety, or one animal variety, like Meral Locapucio. And, but mainly, Vasqueleza, then to work with ten different variety together because it's you cannot, take, make a different verification, because all the plants are co planted. This is not like the section of each variety. So you have, I found a plant of Muscat a few years, few years ago, instead of Malibu, convenient. So, it's, it's not easy. It's not easy, but, we can, we can analyze it and say, what Alicante, it's, it's bringing to the wine, what French cheese is bringing. And, first of all, we go to see Neder Maskalise. We know today, Atilushin submit a lot of, Yeah. And a investigation about that, that, Neroomascaleza is a son of, Sanjuveza. Yes. And, today, we know as well that Nero Locopucio it's a twin of, another, quite important variety called Carignano. So if we go back to Alicante, we know Alicante is the same variety as, so it's a Granash. So it's it will be easier with this, relationship. I mean, genetically, genetic relationship to understand more of what they bring to the wine. And franchisee actually, it's is something a little bit undiscovered, so we don't know exactly what it is. In terms of, taste, it reminds me a little bit of company Frank, but I don't think there is a genetic relationship. Okay. So At the end of the day, what this small variety brings to the wine, I would say, Neralo Capucho brings a little bit of, color and a, a little bit of spice. The alicante, the Granash brings this, a bit wider aroma, quite, Mediterranean, I would say, like, Herbert, Oregon, olive paste, this kind of character, and French easy, a little, a little bit of green, a little bit of, aromatic side. White grape brings what they have, habit of acidity. So it's, Yes. It's not easy. It's not easy. Well, beautiful. And actually, I recall reading somewhere that you described, I think, on your website, that you described the perfuma as mixed blood of Aetna and, you know, from what you've just said, I think, Yeah. Yeah, a very, a very, a vivid, a visual description. So, you know, I mean, many of us will agree that Aetna's soul, the volcanic soul is something that honest and authentic Aetna wines would would would express. So what about the volcano do you hope to express in your wines and how do the volcanic souls, contribute, in in in expressing this? I think we don't have to forget. First of all, that the volcano, first of all, is a big, big mountain. Mhmm. Mhmm. And so connected to the volcano, but not as a volcano soil. We have the altitude that is related to the volcano. Yes. So it's very important because it's not, you, you know, in Edna, we have terraces because we don't have any consistence on this. So if you want to defend, you have to make terraces. You cannot have a other way of keeping the, the sand inside, inside, in a small space. So, this makes another difference in the, in the soil, what brings to the wine because the, the soil is always very draining. So never water is staying. Of course, the volcano seems to bring some, smoky related to sulfur aroma. And if you think of a regular Aetna rosso, for example, and you think of a very traditional candy, I think one I missed the other. You can, you can have the, the feeling of what the volcanic soil gives. Yes. A sort of, minerality and stone aroma. Something related to sulfur, as I said, that that is quite, quite important. Yes. And I think it comes in the wine, especially one in, during the aging. Those, these are sort of incense aroma, smoke tea. They are all coming stronger and stronger after both two, three, four, one, four years of aging. But, yes, that, I would say, is the character of the volcano coming out. Of course, in the, in the profoundly volcano, we have a bigger amount of, aroma coming out because of the, as you said, the mixed blood, the biodiversity inside the vineyard gives this, more complexity, but is, yes, a complexity that is a little bit hard to handle because it's, as I said, you have to play with ten different varieties at the same time. Yeah. It's very elegant, but it's still wild. That's, that's how I, how I chase it. Well, we've talked about old vines and, you know, tradition and and all of that, but while staying true to tradition and authenticity, I also know that, you know, Friedrich, you are very much into novelty as well. Can you tell us a little bit more and share with the audience about your new, glass bottles and also unique identification for each bottle that you've been working on recently? I think, yes, I would do with pleasure. It's, Working with Salut forty means being part of this, e, e, e, e, e, e, e, is a sort of consortium also. It's a corporation, in which we used to have a, a, a single bottle for the, all of, all of us. Yeah. I felt like, in this period, since, three, four years that I'm working by myself and I do justice, I have to find a little bit more of identity of my winery. So I decided to keep working with them. It's very important for me, and I would always thank Salbo for for what is helping me in doing what I'm, what I'm doing. But I think I need more identity. So, I wanted to have, a bottle with my name, but I don't like, really much when you have the logo in front of you. So I decided to put on the bottom of the bottle. So you just, recognize it and discover it when you put your bottle in the cellar. So I think And the sliding horizontally. Yeah. And you can see the bottom. Yep. I have to say these are so less expensive than to your complete bottle. I have to be honest with you. But, I like the idea to have it something not, shout, something not, scream. And just, you say, you recognize it just when you, when you lie your bottle down, something nice. I decided, one year ago to, to add a a small microchip to every single bottle. So, actually, under the label, you can find from the vintage twenty twenty one. Actually, I decided as, nearly most of the bourgogne producer to go on the market with all my wines after two years from August. So I went out on the market a couple of months ago with the twenty twenty one vintage. And all the twenty twenty one vintage today has this, a little microchip microchip under the frown label where you can just with the NFC reader. So phone, any, any device. You can, breed the single bottle of, the number of the bottle we are drinking, and you have the possibility of, having your certificate of origin, of, authenticity of the wine, and it's important for me because, actually, I don't see where exactly where the bottle is, I see, for example, in the area. So if I sell some bottles in Sicily and I found it in Hong Kong, now I can recognize, that somebody maybe sold the bottle where, and it's, it's important for me at this point to, to protect the market. And at the same time, to give, the chance to hold my client to, to be sure about the bottles because, you know, in fine wines that the number of the fake bottles are very, very high numbers. I don't know if it's something around twenty percent. They would copy my wine, obviously. But, at the same time, I think it's, important to start early because if in ten years, I will get a little bit more famous. Maybe somebody will start thinking of it and texting yourself when you are small and younger, it's it's better. Mhmm. Okay. Speaking about novelty, any exciting new projects in the making, which we expect from you, Nix? We have, a lot of things coming. I have to say. I'm I'm excited to hear it. So share with us. We didn't talk in this, this chat about, one of the one I started in producing in twenty eighteen. For the first time, I didn't produce Proformity volcano because it was a too rainy vintage So I decided to use, eighteen. Right? Yes. To the class, the preferably volcano to a different wine. I didn't want to put all the variable pinar in the Athenarosa, so I've unified, instead of and, it came out a wine that I call, that is really surprised me because you have the complexity of, you have the complexity of a very old vineyard and the pepilocks, wildness, and all this variety together, but you have the purity of, the steel because usually, perfumadi Wukkano is, aged in, to know. In this case, I, I thought that the pro form a, the, the, the wine wouldn't have, and all the oak. So I decided to, to keep it in. But it was so fresh, so elegant, so drinkable. And it's very, very important for me, for my style to have this, wine, in terms of elegance. And, I decided to replend to produce again this wine that was made just in one year. So special, I decided to plant, engrafted dinner. Following here, I had to keep on the market. So I used for Rosal Mendzo, the oldest part, but not under the soul of the vineyard. I have been pastor Pichardo, and I've stolen, to know from, before the volcano to do a one, very little number of pothole just to keep, you know, the label going on. And this was supposed to be the first vintage of the ungrafted vineyard I planted. That comes from the portfolio. We can, of course, it's just pieces of, vineyard taking from, from from that vineyard, from the very old vineyard, and putting on the ground without engrafted. Okay. That's very interesting. What's happening now? Because, Rosetti Mesa today is, it's a wine, and, it's probably one of my favorite wine as well. So I'm not sure if, they ungrafted would be back to this wine or will be a new wine, just We will see. And in fact, actually, one of the, my friends, in the audience, also another ambassador Susanna, she brought a bottle of Russell Dimetso, the twenty eighteen, to one of the dinners, that, you know, that that that we had in Hong Kong. Alan was there as well. Bella was there as well. They're also here, in the audience now. But, it, it was a beautiful wine. So I'm I'm really excited, to see what the, how they engrafted, of the vaccine produced. I'm doing some experiment with threesome as well. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. I tried that, so maybe from the audience a little bit it, about it. In twenty nineteen, I've unified, a small part of the riesling by itself just to see, I had something in my mind, but, actually, I didn't have the instrument to, to do it. So I wanted to winify, Briesling, in a sort of motion style. So on a sort sort of split place, lighting alcohol with small sugar, but actually I had to find out that, I didn't have the instrument to keep it alright. Depplementation. And so the wine went dry, and I had to put enough to know because I didn't have anything safe to put the wine inside. There's quite a small quantity. So, actually, it's not the one I had in my mind, but the wine is, great. It was just three hundred bottles and, one hundred and eighty magnums. So it was just, just a trial. But, just to give you the idea, this year, I planted another four thousand plants of riesling. So it's, something will happen, and probably in, a bit bigger numbers. Then, Argentoporantaseta, g forty seven, the name of the experiment in. Yeah. And that's dedicated to your wife. Right? It's yes. It's a bit. My wife is called Anna Graciani. And forty seven were my age. At the same time, Argentina, because in my mind, would have been something so light and transparent. And so in the future, we'll be Argentina forty seven. And, and, like, Sandy forty seven. Who knows? Anyway, the wine, hopefully, will be good. Well, we should all be, looking forward to it and stay tuned everyone. So I'm aware of the time, and I was told that, you know, there are only a few minutes left. So perhaps I will pass back to Stevy to conclude. Yes. I just can't answer a question. I can read about exporting the U. S. And working in, New York, New Jersey with the soil air. And I'm working with a very small importer in Virginia called Williams Corner. And I'm starting in January with the California, the source, the wine source. Okay. Well, thank you. That was so thorough. You even took care of the questions. I love it. Charlotte, thank you so much for hosting this. I hope you you can hear me okay. I still have poor connection signals. So, I mean, just in case I drop off, maybe like it can take over. Like, tell us what's going on next What's going on is tomorrow is going to be with Barbara. She will be interviewing Masimiliano Apollo. So, yeah, that's it tomorrow at five thirty PM. Okay. I just want everyone to know that you know, the offices will be closed for two weeks, but thanks to like, and the team in Verona and in Ecuador, in Philippines, everyone still be guaranteed a pod every single day. I think that deserves a round of applause like a Yeah. Okay. Charlotte, as you are so exceptional. I love your, hosting this. You're a great, ma. Thank you for doing this today. Federico, thank you for joining us today with your your great, great conversation. And I hope to see you very soon here or there. And that's it. I'm going to wrap it up and signing off till tomorrow then. Thank you very much, everyone. Thank you, Stevie. Okay. To get to the bank. Fine. Sniff. Sniff. Listen to the Italian wine podcast, wherever you get your podcasts. We're on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, EmLIFM, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. Until next time.