Ep. 2238 Ilia Sakharov IWA interviews Valter Fissore of Cogno Winery | Clubhouse Ambassadors’ Corner

You want to feel me emotional because when we talk about the Nacheta, I feel emotional because, this wine represents so much of my professional life. In our history, the Nacheta, the in Abiola. And, finally, Previloster, are milestone that belong to us, and we are proud of. Welcome to the Special Club House session of the Italian Wine podcast. Listen in as members of the Italian wine community engage in fascinating conversations about contemporary wine topics. If you enjoyed the show, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. And remember to subscribe and rate the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your pods. Hello, and welcome to club house the Investors Corner. My name is Carveraviano, and today I'm pleased to welcome back. The Italian wine ambassador, Ida Sarajiro from Kazakhstan, and his guest, Walter Fizore from Konyo Estate. Welcome, everybody. Welcome, Charles. Welcome to everyone. So So, Elya, this is your second club house. In your first ambassadors corner, you've interviewed Giza Pepina from Marjola, who is a wine producer from Sardinia, but today, we are focusing on Piedmont in Northern Italy. So my first question is, Could you please tell us where is, and how did you discover about its wines? Hello again. Hello again. First of all, I have got just a little bit noise that I have already relocated from done to azerbaijan some months ago. And right now, I'm based here not in not in how much it. Anyway, you know, is it, just upon the time, some years ago, like, short about producer by my all the colleagues in some area from other countries and all of them are really told that, it's just really seems like, you know, a star on the sky of full barrel area. Yes. And then when I worked in Omatin, because I think it was about one year ago. Our company, a company where I worked, started to import and distribute their wines, and I first tasted it by myself. And then, just in some months, it was my first trip business trip to Barolla, and, Elua Konya was just, my first winery, which I have ever visited in Barolla in Piedmont, and it was, really fantastic. And, important for me. I got a lot of beautiful photos and, a bottle from the winery, vital thank you again. I will ask you another question about this bottle in the end of the interview. I hope. So we hear that Konya was your first winery visit in Piedmont, but why did you decide to invite Walter here with us today? I think that Walter is, representative of one of the most interesting wave of producer in Barolla, you know, because his project, it's something like Barolla, not for everybody in a general image, you know, his wines, their wines, It sounds like, Barolo for the guys, which is to really understand wine and, who is really understand what is they drink. And I think that for as a part of Thailand and ambassador and our friends community, will be really interesting to listen our discussion. And of course, I have got some personal questions for Viator as a representative winery and area in total. Following on what you just mentioned, what are then the learning objectives of this interview? For me, it's the most interesting, for today's, modern image of barrel industry. New terrors for Nebula or climate changing and maybe a little bit, baro type of business. Sounds amazing. So I'll now mute myself. I'll pass the mic to you and have fun. Okay. Viator. How are you? How was this season? Tawiyah, thank you so much to invite me at this podcast. It's a great pleasure. Imate you again. And it's, a pleasure to participate and just playing a little bit, my production, my wines, my philosophy. Okay. First question for today, by me, is about general time to wine industry in total right now in the world. You know that, right now, it sounds like, a little bit crisis in wine industry, but, I feel short, some opinions that some guys told me that good future for wines is not in classic parts of the world, but on modern parts like, Latin America, Dubai or some places, I would like to ask you, do you feel maybe some types of these? Maybe a quantity of your importers is rising in this type of regions, and in total, what do you think about this idea? Yes. He, I agree that is, this, complicated time for the wine industry. The demand is shrinking. Twenty twenty four was, very difficult here for sales because in my opinion, the geopolitical situation is challenging. There are wars, I get inflation, price, uprising, and witness, to purchase or decrease. All of, this certainly didn't help, win consumption. This contraction has, also been felt by us, but we have fought through it with a closer cooperation with our partners. Promoting, our products through trips and targeted events. This, has allowed us to close twenty twenty four with a turnover similar to a twenty three. It's certainly what wasn't easy. But I am confident that twenty twenty five will be better. The economic outlook is growing, I think. Certainly, not all promise are overcome. We have made the app for the the lost of some markets. By opening, up new ones, we started with United Emirates markets, Indonesia and some other countries. This allowed us to us to compensate for the lower purchase from our usual importers. Of course, new markets needs time to grow. The important things was opening your sales channel. There is also another big issue related to ongoing campaign against Alco consumption. This is demonstrated by the recent European promotion authorization for the production of, their alcoricide wines. Which, would like call wines, but a greater beverage. As you can understand, this doesn't help and maintain the consumption of a natural produce, like wine. Once that, characterized from millennia, all tradition, tied to our culture and civilization. This demonization of Alcuin general will certainly be a problem, particularly for a sector like ours. I hope that this could be good for you. This this, answer. Okay. Okay. Thank you. And I for sure, two parts of your reply, you know, and the first is about new markets, Caribbean, Indonesian, Indonesian, United Emirates, United Emirates, And, for me, it's interesting. What do you think about the future of this market? Of course, I also understand that every new market just need time to grow, you know, but do you think that some of this market could, in future, become one of the, maybe not not the biggest, but one of the most interesting markets, like it was a northern part of Europe, USA maybe a Russia until the war will start with your sense like this, or you're just thinking that these new markets will not be so important, and this is just the, okay, just an average country, just an average market. What do you think? No. All these markets are very important. All markets are important. It's important. Try to explain to our customer, our style, our philosophy, and to do that in its time, Also, some markets are younger, and it's great education. And sometimes, it's not immediate, reships the resins. We don't see immediately the resins. Okay. Okay. Thank you. And, and as a part of my additional questions, you have already mentioned, non alcoholic wise. And, as I hope I correct you heard from your speech, you used the word, demonized And as I remember, some, maybe one or two weeks ago, one one of the Italian ministry have wrote or told some, so I just stopped to demonize the wine. And I I absolutely agree with this point of view. Now, but anyway, we we just understand that a category of, non alcoholic wines of Jews. It's rising. It is just a more modern rails. And maybe do you also think about start to produce some products in this category too or not. What do you think? Forget it totally. Okay? This is no wine. This is, a juice or a beverage but don't represent our tradition, our culture, our history. Fantastic. I must agree with you. Okay. Just go to the next one. And the second question is, about climate changing. You know that, it is really also important part of, modern troubles too. Climate has, already changed as well as it's hot. And, you know, of course, as a man of your wines, are made with nebula. And, this grape variety, even a normal climate period could be with, really high alcohol. What do you think about the future of nebula and your terawatts? Maybe do you look in, in the new areas like nozzle parts of pemon to get my Gatinara, Coram, or something like this, or maybe do you think about some new bio types of nebulo with high resistance to hot and rot, or maybe have you considering, any other ways to react to service climate change. Well, yeah, I agree with you. The climate has changed, and we are in a phase of climate warming. The present us, with new challenges for wind production. We mainly produce a biolo in the barolo area, and, we are obviously exposed to and increase the alcohol content in our wines. However, I must say that over the last fifteen years, we have gifted our focus, toward the agronomic and Viticulture aspect, greater than, analogical research. Since, twenty ten, we have started organic Viticulture. And, our, advantage search for a more attentive winners management has allowed us to produce very balanced wines. The wines have adapted to the climate change in a credible way, becoming more resistant to diverse natural production has decreased, which has allowed for less invasive and complete fruit writing. All these has led to wines that are very well balanced, more elegant, but still very deep and complex. I see it's an improvement, especially for nebulo. If we have analyzed the last ten Vintages, I must honestly say that the climate warming has improved the barolo. The wines are thinner. And for all your moderation as a reduced mechanic's after agency, which has always been a problem for this wine in past. This is, evidenced by the fact that today, but always are really drinkable when young. And the consumer find them truly unique and interested from the from the start with the the great potential for a, which, of course, will never drop regarding the question of the whether we are looking for a new areas for an umbrella based with wine production, I would not say no. I love other wines like Cam and Katinara, but we live here and, we are focused on Barolo. Which is, and the remaining one of the great wine of the world. The effort for us to always produce better wines is very great. And, we are, the guardians of District. So we want to nothing more that remain focused on the nebulo from our area where, it, express, itself, manifestly. In this regard, we know that research in this field continues. There are study in the early stage called the Chees Genesie and Geno editing that could help fight climate adversity. In short, certain genes are introduced intranobial biotech to improve resistance to cerv disease without altering the variety. In, in this last year, so we already introduced, in some numerous talk that are more resistant to the drought. Are being tested, call m, Emerald stock. And the others already used for, by us in a targeted way, such under ten Rictor and under forty root Jerry. So this, new rootstock apps to fight the the dry season and the global warming. During your answer, during your reply, I've already touched the two other topics, which I, I'm going to to touch also in some minutes. But If we just system up, first part of your answer was about modern climates, modern average temperature in Barolla area is even better for great varieties. And right now, it sounds like ideal conditions for cannoliocariperness, also in your area. Is it correct? Yes. It's true. The wise became better with the with this climate change. It's considered the the result of the last ten years. Okay. Okay. Thank you. I understand, as you mentioned, and as the topics, I would like to to switch this question for the next one. I know that you have got two type of Barbaras, two lines with Baras, and, you mentioned Our stocks, the one of your barbera, is made with Prefera Wanyard. How could you describe the differences between the wine on, Prefera wines and, classic rico de marie. What is the difference between these wines? Before to talk about the difference through this to Barbara, yeah, I would like to explain a little bit what is our pre fill option. So we produce, since two thousand ten, Barbara pre fill option comes from a vineyards in La Mora at five hundred fifty meters above the sea level, high elevation, with a sandy soil. This is certainly of the reason that survived the phylloxera. This production is very, very small each year, we average about two thousand bottle. I should mention that the twenty twenty five will be the last year of our production from the original winners. Unfortunately, the yield is becoming increasingly scarce and, is no longer makes sense to continue. However, we have a a project to replant it using the same genetics, replacing the turbines with the original food. These are, will allow to us to continue, enjoying something truly special. The characteristic of the Barbera pre philosophy is one that's likely different from Barbera, alba, brick omerly. The color is, is, deep ruby red with violet reflection. The aroma, Evox, dark fruit or notes with, a spiciness reminiscent to Sierra from from ballet, but with a bit more acid. The taste of this barbarian is savory fresh with a light tangic structure that makes the finish very long and satisfying. The other barbera is more classical. It's, darker fruit, red cherry, black cherry, and, a touch of wood, but, very, very low because I don't like, oaky wines. Thank you. But sorry. Could you please repeat? Because if I I don't understand why I'm going to stop the production because of the quantities, too low or why? What is the reason for? Because the production is too low and it's very complicated to manage a winner sold. And they have no sense to spend, effort that, feel me very sad, but this is the reality. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I understand. Okay. Thank you. And, another one, additional questions. You mentioned some minutes ago, the potential, of Barolla in a modern climate. And, I have got a question about approach to drink your wines because if you know that, there are some, like, two different points of you about wines. First is that, wine, it is just a beverage. And, if you have got a bottle of wine, you just need to drink it. Another one point is that wine is a culture and sounds like, you know, a part of high cuisine and, the guys from with this point of view things that people should, age wine and drink sounds like old wittanges. What do you think about, barrel in total, in, especially in modern climate which you described as such like ideal ideal condition, you know, and, of course, about your wine personality, you know, because it's really important for me because as I mentioned some months ago, I relocated from Kazakhstan to Azerbaijan, and I brought with me just two bottles. And one of these two bottles is, Ravair Vigna Eliana, which you presented to me during our visit and thank you a lot. And I just want to know when I must drink this wine. I remember when I gave you this bottle. No. Why is not, just a simple drink? Yeah, if you have a bottle, you can drink it right away. But always, with the proper awareness, that is come from our agriculture work, from a hard labor tied to nature and the cycle of the season. And from century of history and tradition that a campaigner human kind. Today, the wine is certainly consumed for pleasure and friendship and the socialized, but I believe it, should be also be consumed with the right respect for, what it represent. And, the effort that we made to produce it is not simple, but there needs, to be an education in drinking. The friends of modern life doesn't help in this regard. Our wines by philosophy must be good from the start. I don't believe that a wine can become wood over the time if it's not already good from the beginning. Bottle age is necessary for, important wines like Barolo. For their natural evolution and the harmonization of the wine components. But in any case, the wine should be good from the outset. Considering which cultural effort made in a recent years to achieve a greater juiciness and, less technical security. Today, Barolo can be enjoyed, even when it's younger, which reflect its current global success. I am not a big fan of overly old wines. Often, when I open very old bottles, I find them, tired, a little bit oxidized and lacking fruit. Of course, the hallmark of a great wines is their ability to age well. Our expected, barolo should be able to last at least twenty years as, for when drinking a bottle doesn't, another matter. It's depend a lot of individual taste often people become collectors already than opening a rebuttal to appreciate its quality. As for your bottle, I would like that you to drink it when you find the right occasion, the right moment, and the right mood to fully enjoy it. So you find that what the right time for you is what you need. It sounds like, what worked, by a really true feminist, you know? But if we just, if we just try to found, no, not the best time, but you know, since, like, peak of evolution, if you're aware, Vigneliana, what do you think about the time? Five years after after least ten years, fifteen years. Our vigna is our most iconic barolo, and this is made with the biotype, Jose clone. And this is very, very unique and very rare in the lung area. We start to produce this, barolo in nineteen ninety seven. And, this is a wine, with great, elegance finesse. It's more closer to burgundy wines. And, I think, Barolo, Vienna could age very well, but not longer than our Rivera, for example. I think that, Vienna could age around twenty years. But depends a lot of the vintage. So it's so difficult to say how many days, how many years you can keep. What is important that you enjoy the wine when, you like it. And, I don't know what exactly you aspect from a wine so important like our barolo. Okay. Okay. Thank you. I think that I just need to to keep it, more, don't drink it next Sunday. And you I've already mentioned some other of my questions for tonight. You mentioned that this type of your barolo could be a compare with burgundy, and that if you've got a question about burgundy because of barolo is often compared with burgundy, and, terror approach, in style of wine, and, a lot of financial details. What do you think about it? What do you think is this way, this burgundy approach? Good future for a region and especially for your project or not. This is first part of question, and the second part of this question, do you think that in total and your wife's barrel, is a wine of terror or it is more a wine of by nature? Great question. It's very true, very often, but always, wine is compared to burgundy de Pironoir. This happened for several reasons. Firstly, there are characteristic of the nebula variety that are closer to pinot noir. And, of course, there is a microclimate. It's not so different between the future of the area. Make you choose wise cousins. Both variety are tremendously complex. For both Aviso culture and the logical perspective are requiring unique micro areas of production with a specific pedic climatic condition to express themselves and their best Lastly, wines, made from, both variety are, developed a character of uniqueness personality. They are some more, capable than others to, over liking the terwar of origin. This is a fighting ancient aspect of the nebulo and pinot noir. When we talk about the wine, there are sensory analogies expressed through the fruit, the elegance, and the aromatic I believe the barolo is even more complex and deep, but, it has the problem of the tenacity, which must be managed first in the winners, even before that in the cellar. The hydraulic moderation is crucial. After that, we are at the top for me. Barolo is absolutely a terroir wine. The way making process and aging and food are very important, but but they must, not mask or compromise their, organoleptic quality of the grape wine could express. The fruit of Nebula is so beautiful, difficult to preserve it for as long as possible. With our crew Rivera, we focus, on this. And over the years, we have improved, in managing its tonicity with the it's not properly handled. We'll make our barolo less drinkable and enjoyable. In my opinion, climate change has benefited a bit more than pinot noir. Our wines, have become more elegant while the pinot noir have become more structural that in the past. Of course, it is my personal opinion, idiot. Yes. Yes. Of course. I understand about personal point of view, personal opinion. I understand about, Zwina Sterewar, but what what do you think about the approach, about MEGA, you know, single vineyard and this type of approach. Do you think that style of burgundy with something like Grand Krew, Premier Krew, the the first wave of terrors, the second wave of terriers, do you think that this kind of researching your terrier, your area, your collection will be good for the region or not? Now the MGA helps a lot to understand the difference through the single terwar of the region of the barolo area. Of course, our classification is not so old, like, in burgundy. And that, for that, and it's more time. And I think it could be become better the classification. But today, the producer are focused on the quality of this single terroir and helps to the consumer to understand, what is the barolo in different location in different microclimate in different with different microclimate with different, terroir. Okay. Okay. Okay. I understand. And, the next question is, not about your red wine, but about your Mashetta. Which names, Anachetta. You know that, for me, it's just really true, but, Anachetta, it's the best, Nachetta, if you have ever tasted. But in general, in people minds, Barrol and Barbaras and in total, Langgaria. Okay. Maybe not Langgaria, but Barrolin, Barbara. It's just about red wines. What do you think about potential of NASA, grape variety in your area in total? And then your wider personality. Do you think that, modern trend for white wines, or maybe even for sparkling wines, could be used within a setup, or you not see the potential in your terror and, Marchetta just will stay, seems like a local, local specialization. Yeah. You want to feel me emotional because when we talk about in a shared time, feel emotional, because, this wine represents so much of my professional life. In our history, the the and the and the finally pre philosopher are milestone that belong to us, and we are proud of. We initiate that we have done incredible work for, every point of view. First of all, as the first to believe in this great variety, active to Nobel, we started along and, exhausting process to recover back in nineteen ninety four. At the time, I even told the Natchetta Great was historically and well known. It was not an authorized grape for cultivation. Over the next ten years, we put, all our energy. It obtained a recognition. And finally, in two thousand and four, we were granted doc status at Elanga Bianco. Then, not satisfied with that. We worked with our producer from Novelo and, at the time, only with, Zendres strait. For example, we get the grape listed under Lagnoshete with mention of novelo. In our small way, we contribute to creating a micro economy for the lung. Today after thirty harvest, we consider ourselves a small pioneer of Nacheta. We know both the strengths and the weakness of this wine and fully aware of its quality. We believe that there is still a room of of our growth by investing more in the land of the greater wines. Certainly, it's spread as not being helped with the fact that this come from of the barolo era. And, it has has been either main limitation, aware if instead of replanting a foreign variety like chardonnay and Subignon, more focused should be better, plan to modern shed. It will be my opinion, but a great favor of the region. Many producers still like, evidence of the granularity quality of this grape, and the wine that comes from it. There are fourteen wineries novella producing a shade with, this mansion and a hundred percent in the shade are great, but the and the thirty, thirty five outside novella production lagging a shade only. So it's a wine with great characteristics. You can age very well. That, to create a new economy for this region. I think you need to be invest more and more. I absolutely agree with you. And, you know, that which when I tasted, you wanna set the first time it was about one year ago, I think. One of the first, of my mind was that, oh, guys, I don't know about Italian market But, just some years ago in, Russian language works, and I think that in total, and, in modern wine markets, was a really big trend, in a volcanic style of wine, you know, out to Noricia, Aetna, combania, something like this. And the first mind, which I, which I obtained, during the first day since we were on the set, was that all guys, this is absolutely, something this way, this stylistic of white wine with a refreshing acidity, you know, with something reduction notes, fantastic, dynamic potential. It was really cool. And, what do you think about maybe a sparking potential for this lines? Because of, you know, as I already mentioned comparing with volcanic styles, for example, on Aetna, SITCEL is one of the one of the most interesting category right now is not only still wine, but also sparkling wine. And for me, you're in tasting, Yona Shata. It it was interesting that, okay. Maybe these great variety have got a good potential for sparkling production also. But do you think? I don't think that is a variety that, well, express, in a sparkling way because, for me, it's a little bit too aromatic. So I prefer don't produce a sparkling, in a shape. But there are some producers that I'm trying to do that at the moment. Okay. Thank you. I understand. I think that these questions was, the last one. By my list, and I just, would like to tell big thank you for this fantastic interview. It was, really interesting for me. And, I was, it it was good to Yay, meet, as we already told, you again. I hope that I will visit your winery when I will be in PMont again because I was just was absolutely fantastic. And, just for finish, you know, I would like to tell some some short history because I remember it during my first visit to a project. It was many years ago during one of my first big professional course about Italy wine industry in total, and you know that, my first educator, wine matter just trying to explain what is Italian and wine in total. And, he compared south part of Italy and the northern part of Italy. And, he described that it's okay in South, you could see a big family, big guys, a lot of sunny, something like countryside style of life, you know. And then, he described, nose and type, an example of especially Barrellas that, you know, not so big family, something aristocratic style of life, a lot of very, very stylish and good wines, expensive cars, and missing restaurants, something like this. And just, during my first visit to Piedmont and my first visit, to your winery, We tasted a lot of absolutely fantastic wines, with fantastic glasses, then just, go to amazing restaurants, and I tried one of the best past in, during all my life. And I remember this vision that because if you know, just from word to word, all image, all picture was the same as my first fine educator told me many years ago. And, I have got a lot of good warm, warm friendly wives. By this visit. Thank you again. Thank you, Julia. It was my pleasure to meet you here in Piamonte, and and, I appreciate, that something that, I explained you during your visit was, remind you in your head. And, I try to do myself always, and I do this work with great passion like many other producers. But what, it's important to be always, yourself, always when the success is going better. And, I feel me very humble always, but I'm doing, our best work possible to express the quality of this beautiful era where we live. And you'll find always, friends. Don't forget. And, I hope you see you soon again in Pierre, and I would like to visit Kazakhstan when it's possible to help, the sales, to increase, our reputation there. Okay? Okay. And, I just found will it be at, in Italy in this edition? Yeah. I will be at Vine Italy, but at the moment, at this moment, I am concentrating to prepare my first fair that is in Paris, when Paris, and then I need to go also in, Provine, and then the Vinitri. So you still have time to win Italy. I'm, not preparing this fair, but, This is a very important fair for me, and, I will be there with great pleasure to meet our customer and the military remaining our most important, to win fair in the world. Yes. So lots of events coming up, you have some busy weeks coming up next. So I would say best of luck to you in wine Paris and wish to see you and meet you in person at Vin Italy. I think this is a rep. Thank you everybody. Thank you so much. Bye bye. Listen to the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your podcasts. We're on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, email, IFM, and more. Don't get to subscribe and rate the show. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. Until next time, teaching.