Ep. 2299 Beverley Bourdin IWA interviews Grégoire Desforges of Baglio di Pianetto winery | Clubhouse Ambassadors’ Corner

Great. Well, I've been looking at your website here, and there was an online quote by your CEO Dante Bonaccina. Wine as experiential in conscious consumption. Can you tell me about that? So drinking wine is living and experience filled with sensation and knowledge, but what he means also is that consumption must be conscious, like any other substance from alcohol to tobacco. I think it's important to be informed about its effect and the limits of responsible consumption. The key concept is moderation responsibility. Welcome to the special club house session of the Italian wine podcast. Listen in as members of the Italian wine community engage in vaccinating conversations about contemporary wine topics. If you enjoyed the show, please consider donating through Italian Wine podcast dot com, and remember to subscribe and rate the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your pods. Hello, and welcome to Clubhouse, the Ambassador's corner. My name is Carlar Avanyaro, and today I'm pleased to welcome Beverly Borden, and her guest, Greguardo Fars Martzo to from Valodipenito winery. Welcome, everybody. Thank you for having us. Of course, our pleasure. So before passing the mic to Beverly, I would like to share with our listeners a few information about her. So Beverly actually lives in Alberta, Canada, And although her career has been a registered nurse in the operating room, she is a very serious wine enthusiast and promoter of quality Italian wines, specifically of a smaller wine producers. Some designations earned include international summary, Guild Advanced, several wine scholar guild programs, the WSTT level three, and most notably the Italian wine ambassadors certification through the Venetal International Academy. So Beverly tell us, how did you discover about Balletipinieto wines? While in Western Sicily in the first week of December, our Venidale Ambassador press tour visited quality benchmark producers near Palermo, and we were graciously hosted by Baglio D Pianeto and stayed a night in the Agra Relay Hotel. Sounds lovely. So why did you decide to invite Gregwa to force with us today? How did you connect with him? Well, I see immense potential for these wines and the winery stay experienced because not everybody drinks wine, so I think that hotel and property offers a lot beyond just drinking wine. It's just a beautiful environment. The region is very high altitude, vinnie Altura. So typically high altitude Sicily is only thought of as Aetna, but these vineyards start at about six hundred and fifty meters above sea level and go up to nine hundred or more. And I generally enjoy higher elevation wines. Greg War has a vision to reinvent Baglio in the era of decreased consumption, climate challenges, trade challenges, environmental respect, and wide style changes to emphasize terroir being fresher and gastronomic And I really believe that he's brave and quite calculated about how to bring this about. And there's gotta be an easier way to make a living, so I admire him for this. I'm very much looking forward to hearing this conversation. If you had to recap what are gonna be the main learning objectives of this interview? What should we expect? Well, the challenges of Baglione Pianato are not isolated within the wine industry, and I want to share with the listeners the fortitude and planning it takes to bottle great wine with generational transition with several external pressures and why they should look for this producer in a wine store because there's quite a story in the bottle. Nice. So without any further ado, I will not mute myself so you can continue your conversation with Gregoir. Okay, Gregoir. You have a foot in two countries, Italy and France. So you're born and raised in Paris to an Italian mother. And a French body. Exactly. Yes. So you are a part of a fourth generation winemaking Marzato family on your mom's side. So you've lived in five different countries traveled to over seventy five You have a global outlook which is complimented by prior experiences in management consulting and entrepreneurial ventures in the food and beverage sector. Recently, I think it was just in the new year before Christmas. You acquired the family's winery hotel located in the mountains of Palermo up to nine hundred and thirty meters above sea level. This estate although quite beautiful is distressed. And is currently unprofitable, and I know you're going to change that. Greg War's challenge is to breathe new life into both the businesses, the winery, and hotel, and placing humans and nature at the core of this transformation with a vision that combines innovation, sustainability and a deep respect for tradition. This winery was founded in nineteen ninety six by Florence in Peola Marzato, and they wanted a four delay style chateau. So they planted both sicilian international grapes. They planted Inzolia Grillo, Colorado, a cattle for pato, near Davala, and some traditional French grapes like Vio name Merlo, and Pideverdough. So of your wines, I really enjoyed your via, Franccha, the Bianco, and the Roso. And, actually, the whole lineup is pretty tasty. Thank you, Beverly. So are you ready for some questions? Are you comfortable? We're ready, and very comfortable and very happy to answer. Okay. So you've had a lot of diversified experience around the world. So how do you feel this has all prepared you for this challenge? Well, I think that studying a mix of different themes, international relations, marketing, and finance, and working as a management consultant taught me to have a critical thinking and a good base for problem solving, which helped me tackle economical and let's say strategic parts of the entrepreneurial mission. Though, I will say that the wine is particularly complex, and I think that's what it makes its beauty. As for my preparation on the wine industry, I think you guys are taking care of it. I just passed Actually, I don't know if I passed it, but I I think so. I hope so. I also hope with merits, my one side, level two, and I'm gonna be back in your offices for the third level very soon. I think traveling a lot meeting a lot of people, different cultures gives me a broader view on trends what's happening in the world and flexibility to approach a new industry that I didn't know before and also a new home that is now with more ease to adapt to new cultures. That's, I think, is a good start to answer the question. Well, I think you're a man of the world. So I think it gives you a very broad perspective on this. So in front of me, Greg War, I printed off pictures that I took of your property. I see beautiful rolling hills. I see vineyards. All of trees. I remember walking in your vineyard at Sunrise in my feet were heavy with clay. Can you tell me about the soil and topography of the property? Of course. So we're just twenty minutes away from Palamo, and, it's a quarter of sixty that is quite distinguished by its altitude and, unique microclimate. It's nestled into an, a fitality of mountains, just close to Santa Clara and it's very high altitude. We are between six hundred thirty meters, as you mentioned, and we're gonna also plant vineyards up to nine hundred and thirty meters. So this is gonna be very challenging, and it it means that there's gonna be a strong temperature variation between day and night together with clay soils. I think it's gonna be an ideal scenario to predict and complex wines. As you mentioned, we have a beautiful biodiversity. That's the legacy of my grandmother, Florence, that you earlier mentioned. And, we have also an very interesting variety of exposure. We have two actors of olive grows, cultivated with Dan Colilla and Chella's Wall of varieties, and, we actually produce extra virgin oil that has been now modified and enhanced and will be available from this unitary at the stand. So I hope you can come and and taste it. Okay. So, yeah, that's a good, summary for that. Alright. I was quite surprised at how extensive your solar power was. And are you totally self sufficient with that? Not totally, but we produce up to seventy percent of the energy requirement for the container, which it's something that I'm very proud of that we did if I'm not mistaken in the years two thousand and ten, which was quite early. And we have also implemented a lot of actually, my grandfather had already implemented a lot of sustainable measure like a lake that recuperates rainwater that has a capacity of approximately forty three thousand meters cube. So enough to irrigate almost all the vineyard. Also, the container is vertically designed allows us to reduce environmental impact by minimizing energy used for great movement, and we leverage geothermal energy for temperature regulation. And I would I love to mention that this has never been done for marketing purpose. This has been done because we just care about respecting the land? Well, your grandfather had foresight for the environmental considerations, especially with the drought that has occurred in Sicily, conserving a lot of or capturing a lot of water. So what grapes are you gonna focus on going forward, especially the ones going to those higher elevations. So we're still, let's say, the restructuring process, as you said, the company is is not profitable. And this restructuring process can be divided into different phases. Last year, we focused on product and brand. And I think the product part will last another five years at least because we just planted, and, you know, you you get the first one approximately five years later. But what I can tell you for now is that looking ahead, the objective is gonna be to promote indigenous decision varieties, which represent the core of our identity. So we remember we have and they will remain at the center of our production because they best express, I think, the character of our land. But at the same time, and I cannot tell you yet, we are gonna explore new possibilities with some historic seasonal varieties, for sure, always keeping in mind the authenticity and the respect of our terroir. There's two varieties that I'd like to talk about that my grandparents planted. It's, Sierra and Junior because they reached the highest expression in our terroir. And there's gonna be a special project that is very dear to me with the union. That was a grape that was particularly cherished by my grandmother, but I'm not gonna tell you more for now. Okay. You'll have surprises soon. Okay. I must tell you that, Sarah is one of my favorite grapes. I don't know if I can say that in Italian wine podcast, but Italian Sarah is much different. It's beautifully transformed. Since we're talking about grapes, I see that you have engaged in the services of Graciana Grasini. Like, she is absolute fire power because I think of her involvement with SASkaya and Giusti, how she, you know, elevated their prosecco to that brute prosecco, which is absolutely lovely. So tell me what Graciana is going to do with your property. So she's been involved. She's a consultant, but I don't like her to call her a consultant because she's properly part of the team. She has really embraced the project since two thousand and twenty three. She guys in a very respectful and collaborative way are two resident technologists, Franchesco Matisia and Giusepporo Yacono that have been here for quite a few years, and she took a totally different approach with them from what we have seen before with consultants, let's say, she's making them grow. And it's beautiful to see because these guys are sparkling at the moment. And from start, I think her work has been focusing on translating the uniqueness of our micro zones into the bottle, reinforcing the increasingly defined identity of the winery. She's focused on preserving and expressing the authenticity of the territory, and she's rooted in studying new techniques that can support vineyard care and grade processing. So she's in the field. And it's, I think, an approach that aligns perfectly with, this renewed vision that we have that places the land itself at the center, you know. So micro zoning, meticulous selection, attentive vineyard, observation and, especially close collaboration with agronomist, allowing our wines to better translate and interpret this unique terroa that we have that is very special. And remember she has been here since two thousand and twenty three. So it's a long process. Things come with time in winemaking. It's the time timing of the nature if you understand what I mean. Yes. And, it's been a year and something that she's here, so it's gonna be a long process. And I also have a glass of wine in front of me of the new vintage, and it's different from the last one. So I'm very happy. I'm very proud. It's a process that needs a lot of patience, which is not one of my best skills, but I'm learning and, I'm very, very happy of her involvement in the company. Well, Greg Ward, sounds like you're assembling a very strong team. Your staff did indulge our Van Italy ambassadors by letting us do barrel tasting. And that was truly a treat. I thank you again for that. So five years ago, if you pick any wine, what did it taste like five years ago, and what do you hope it to taste like in the future? How will it change? Radically, I think, five years ago, the style was reflected in my grandparents' vision, you know, my grandfather in particular loved structure wines, inspired of, a boldo blends, and so there was a particular attention to the use of wood At the time, I think it was probably a right strategy because these were full bodied envelopic wines. I think they were more appreciated, but today our vision is completely different. I still love these wines, but my goal is to have finesse elegance wines with a lesser alcoholic content. And this evolution, let's say that it's not just a style choice, but it's a realization I think that by revisiting some of the wine wineries or this vintage, when the wines were still young, we realized that even those wines leaned towards more elegance than power, thanks to the attitude. And in the way the land itself guides us, we want to follow its lead by respecting authenticity. So Greg War, in terms of marketing, which consumer profile or generation do you think your new vision will appeal to? So there is, you know, globally some decreased consumption of wine. So do you think this new style of wine will approach will appeal to a younger consumer or who are you thinking of? Yeah. Well, we have to redefine the brand with a premium focus that may change our customer base, but I think that still our wines will remain accessible to everyone. We're going more premium because there's a decrease in consumption, and we want our wine to be for special occasions. The pricing will remain affordable to different demographics, but what I really care about is that there's gonna be a decrease in the alcohol content, and this is gonna happen naturally because we're going higher in altitude. And that's gonna help us to reach younger generation. And I think that the new marketing that we have, the new brand is telling a story of a family vineyard that say that it's going through generation shift, which I think is more captivating to new generations. The company going through a gen generational shift with someone taking control that is quite young, relatively young, is gonna be more captivating to new generation. But, you know, it's not just younger generations. I'm certainly not younger, but I do to negotiate wines with La Salle. And I find even within our household and friends family group, we're drinking a lot less, but we're drinking better, and we're very mindful of what we consume. So We make it more of an event, not just something that is very casual. And I think you have to respect the effort that was put into the bottle as well. I completely agree. So, yeah, higher elevation, I think is a very strong point. Because most people think of higher elevations. It's something that just limits to Aetna in Sicily, and I think you've got a very strong playing card with that property. And I think that really, from my perspective, that really needs to be brought to attention more because high altitude wines are so delicious. They're less alcohol, they're fresher. And I think you've got a lot of strong points for Baglio Difinato. Hey, talking about wine here. You treated us to a lovely dessert wine. It was a muscato de noto. And it was absolutely delicious, and it's also an area with some very rare violets. Can you tell me about that? Yes. For sure. This is a project, and the one that I particularly cherish. The name is Erica, and it's a pacito wine made of blend of archival vintages of, muscato from Valdino. It's that are from our high altitude vineyards in Santa Christina and Penazi. We decided to give the name error, which means in the airbrush language wind breathe, which refers to the freshness that you can find both in the name and the palette coming again from the temperature variation of the high altitude vineyards. It's a soft and delicate passito made from a natural, late harvest and has thirty point five percent alco. Yes. I think it also balances sweetness and acidity with a interesting citrus note, honey. And candied fruit, making it really versatile in pairing. So you mentioned the flower on the label. It's called the Yeah. And it's very particular why because it only grows on one hectare of the Montepizzuta, which is the highest peak of Canada, Banese. So we decided to put it on the bottle to thank the beauty of nature itself Is that a protected flower, Gregwar, the little violet? That's a good question. Unfortunately, I don't have the answer to this, but I don't think so. Okay. I I think it's it's so special, and rare. I would check it out, but I haven't heard of this, so I will check it out. Okay. So if I had let's say I had two glasses of wine in front of me, an Aetna cattarado and one of your cattarado, what would I taste that would be different? Well, I think that the terroir makes them quite different. Uh-huh. On the end now, you have, like, this volcanic soil that gives the wine an amazing, smoky, and ashy notes, which partly overshadows the more fruity notes. There's also a well defined minerality with, maybe a bit of Saline imprint. I personally love if not wines. If you compare to a quite different in a way that it's maybe a more complex and multilayered profile. The minerality definitely remains due to our soul made of clay. And, this featril stone that is an endemic rock that gives this subtle flint note, but it quickly gives away to florists, citrus, and white fruit aromas. So I would say that both are fresh, but one dayetna, catarato, lean towards like smokiness, volcanic archer, maybe the high altitude is more leaning toward fruit forward and freshness elegance. Well, I really enjoy a good catarato, and I I like it, like, catarato, but, you know, that has such a screeching acidity. It is fresh. Like, it's beautifully fresh. What I noticed on your Colorado was more of preserved lemons and grapefruit pith and like a white flower. But on the finish, I got a very pleasant acidity and definitely a saline tang on the end. So it does speak to the terroir being different? Yes. Definitely. The terroir is very, very different. Hey, Gregroir. I've been looking at your website here. And there was an online quote by your CEO, Dante Bonachina. I'm sorry if I mispronounced that. Yeah. You said it perfectly. He has a quote here. Wine as experiential and conscious consumption. Can you tell me about that? Yes. Let me just quote. I think it's a fundamental concept that should guide how we talk about one today. Let's say that one is neither, necessity or imposed product. It's a pleasure. It's an experience that, someone decides to embrace. I think every bottle tells a story, the story of the land, the culture, the, you know, all the traditions, and those who drink it to discover the emotions and the context in which it was created, you know. So drinking wine is living and experience filled with sensation and knowledge. But what he means also is that consumption must be conscious, like any other substance from alcohol to tobacco, I think it's important to be informed about its effect and the limits of responsible consumption. The key concept is moderation responsibility. Yes. Those are our catch words these days. Aren't they? Yes. So your hotel, it's a beautiful building. It was very comfortable to stay there. I love the room I had. The bathroom was big enough to park two small cars. Because. But you have some vision about doing things differently at that hotel. And to me, I can see that as a place for families to go as well because you've got gorgeous swimming pool There's lots of room to run around and explore. Are you gonna do anything different to the hotel? Yes. The hotel is undergoing the studying of a new concept, and we are evaluating the possibility to build a few more rooms and a spa the pillars are gonna be sustainability, food, and beverage, experience, and design. And, it's definitely gonna have a very broad customer reach. I think families are gonna have a great time, couples, wine lovers. One thing that are particularly, Terry, let's say, is the concept of having a lot of experiences. I think that now the trend is at least for me to have a lot of experience, authentic experience related to culture and nature, especially in our hotel that is nestled in this amazing landscape and within a winery. So we're gonna have a lot of activities that people can enjoy. I can do a very quick list. I don't know, cooking class, terracotta making, winery tour, wine tasting, maybe initiation to analogy, picnics everywhere in the property, horse riding, bicycling, trekking. I think there's gonna be a lot of places where we're gonna place bed for couples to enjoy, couples are not only, but enjoy the sunrises as we did or the sunset, and there's like activity that I'm trying to implement of having every night around eleven PM, the hotel shut down all the external, and most of their internal lights, to allow people to sit on the rooftop on couches and cushions, and stargaze with a nice glass of wine and a telescope to watch the stars. And this would be amazing. There's another thing that I really that I'm really struggling with at the moment. We try I'm trying to make the hotel net zero emission or potentially fully autonomous. And, I'm not an engineer. So it's hard to implement, and even the engineers are having a tough time, but it's a beautiful challenge. So we are assessing all the top notch technologies as, a geothermal biomass, photovoltaic, EV tubes to make it fully sustainable. And, so one activity could be also just a tour of the system ability and the challenge is gonna be to embed all these technologies that sincerely are not very aesthetically beautiful within the hotel. Mhmm. But that they are beautifully blended with the landscape. Well, you know, I seek out, dark sky preserves to watch the stars. And it's so nice to turn off urban lighting or household lighting and just watch the heavens, you know, even just taking that app on the iPad Skyview to find the constellations, I think your setting would be perfect for that. Your staff. Oh my gosh. You know, we in such a busy week at Tormina on tour. But when we got to your hotel, it was like putting the brakes on and breathing. There was open space, fresh air, no traffic noise. And your staff were so hospitable. I felt like I was visiting a distant relative rather than you know, staff at a restaurant. They were very kind, and they really endeavored to make us all comfortable. I thank you very much for this comment. It makes me very happy, and this is the whole concept. Simple luxury, not too much staff to allow privacy and exclusivity. This is the whole concept that you just mentioned. Well, I look forward to seeing how your hotel will evolve with renovations. One of the members of our Italian ambassadors is actually an architect Nixon from Kenya. And I know he was looking at sight lines and staircases and windows with an architect's perspective, and you've got tremendous potential there. Thank you very much. I met him. I remember him. Yes. Bright young man. He calls me his nona. I'm quite flattered. So Greg War, what is your most memorable non sicilian wine? And which wine or wine producer would you like to emulate? Wow. It's difficult question. I think I couldn't name just one because I think my admiration goes to anyone who has passion and dedication to their project. I think one is not just technique. It's vision, sacrifice, and all of the land. But if you really force me to Yes. Extension one. Yes. Okay. But then you have to say it force me. I okay. Oh, tell me, Gregorra. What is your favorite? Okay. Okay. And recently, I drank Netna Wine Profuno Mhmm. From Fedidico Gazziani. And, I got a form of this of his winemaking philosophy and about his minimal, chemical intervention in land in the winery, and I think this Aetna was fantastic because, it had body. It had this smoky flavor, but it had a good balance with a bit of fruit, and, I was really mesmerized by this one. Well, good. Good. So right now, I blew up many of the photos that I took around your property and the road via Franco. Is that a part of the pilgrimage route, Frankagena, or is it just a borrowed name? It's the original name. It's the address of the company. And, it's a pure coincidence. And I think that's why we decided to give to our best wine line. Sorry. The name of the Francia because it celebrates my branch in Italian origins, and I think that it's actually a fun coincidence that in the middle of Sicily, we landed in via Francia. Okay. Which means the street falls. Alright. Okay. I would imagine that you have a lot of do you thrive on pressure, Grenquhar? Does it motivate you or does it wear you down? And how do you recharge? It depends on the level of pressure. It can be positive or negative, but at the moment, I definitely need, a bit of support I get it from, my mother, my girlfriend, my sister that is a a therapist. So she reassures me a lot, but, yeah, she recharging is very important part of my life. And I do it with, being healthy, doing sports, getting operator, but I must say that at the moment, to be fairly honest, I have a a bit of a struggle with, work life balance. It's a very special moment. It's a very ambitious project working on the hotel project on the restructuring of the cantina. So it's very important for me to have support people that helped me for the mission on the cantina I feel very, very blessed for the team that I have. The CEO, Dante Bonaccina, gives me a lot of, serenity, but really the whole team of value that I've seen me grown since I was six years old, So there's a lot of stress. There's a good level of empathy, and I feel in safe hands. But, yes, there is moments that are difficult, at the moment if I'm not gonna I'm gonna be honest It is tough. My goal is definitely to have a healthy structure, for my employees and for myself, and so that everyone don't have to struggle with, work life balance, issues. Well, Greg, well, I think that's something that we have learned or hopefully learned in the last four years is self care and support. And, you have an enormous workload on you. So I have confidence that you'll succeed at it. You are also doing the Tour of many different wine exhibitions. You were in the Paris for the wine fest. Can you tell me about that? And who did you connect with and what did you learn from it? Paris was amazing. I had a great time I grew up there. So I spent, I think, something like a month before Paris contacting all of my friends, friends of friends reaching people that have, are working in the wine industry, restaurant, and so on. So I cannot deal with a lot of people for us. France was not a very strategic market, but France, Paris, in particular, has this legend that, Paris has more Italian Russian than all of the all the nationalities of restaurants, but together. I'm not sure this is a true data. So don't take my word for it, but there's a lot of Italian restaurants. So it it could be, what did I learn from it? You know, I just started my PR role So I'm starting to enjoy a lot, telling the story, being at the stand, and so on. And it was very tough for the parties, to be honest, because I I'm not sure I should say this, but, you know, French people have a very high opinion of their, food and beverage culture. So if they eventually pass through Italy, they can be very critical. So I learned not to take things personally, definitely. And, yeah, I I just hope that France can become a good market for us. And, about the fair. The fair was very well organized. I completely understand the fact that France must have a very important wine fair. I consider France and Italy the pioneers in winemaking. And, I think that Paris, deserves to have one of the most important wine fairs in the world. I think it's gonna become if it's not almost already the case with, with verona. So I think that we're gonna see more and more interest in the in that term. Well, Greg War, I was quite surprised when we were in Paris last year that there was right in the place to San Michelle near the river is a senior Vino store. And you walk in and it's all Italians. No different than the one you'll see in, verona. And of course, they have a restaurant in there where you could purchase wine off the shelf and then take it up to the restaurant. So I don't think they would do that move of putting up a large store in a prestigious location. If they didn't think that Italian wine could survive in Paris. I completely agree with you, and it's fun, but that you mentioned this because I don't know if you remember, but you told me, like, to check out the senior reno if I was missing Italian wines and I went and had a a bottle of my own wine in senior reno in Paris. So thank you very much for that tip. I think the beauty of Italian wine, and I see a lot of food pairing possibilities with your portfolio is Italian wine goes so well with global cuisines. And one of the groups that I go to occasionally is Amichi Delanytria, and they hold Italian wine dinners, but the food could be Chinese Japanese Filipino. It's just I think gastronomic possibilities are rich and it just does not have to be Italian or sicilian fare. So that's my two cents worth. I think you can drink Italian anywhere with anything. So Yes. I agree. I I I agree with what you're saying. Yes. Okay. So I think I'm done with my questions, Greg Ward. Do you have anything else you wanna tell me? Well, I think we've been through a lot. I was very honored, and, I thank you for this opportunity. I would love to come back in, a year or a few years to tell you more of the evolution of the of the the project. And, unfortunately, if you're coming back to sleep next year, it's gonna sound strange, but I hope I won't be able to welcome you in the hotel because it's gonna be in a restructuring process. And I hope I will be able to welcome you in two thousand twenty seven. And I would love to have this vertical, if you understand what I mean, to see the evolution of the wine. And, it was very nice to speak with you. Thank you again. And I also hope to see you soon. I think Probably. No. You told me you're not coming to Vineite today if I'm not mistaking, but, we will, help me get around. Well, Craigwar, I reserve the right to interview you again. So Please. Agliao, part two. How's that? It sounds great. Sounds good. Alright, my friend. I wish you a good evening. I read a comment from Nixon Monga. I was reading the comment in the chat who says, loved the serenity at Madricaneto, the wines, the wonderful people, the architecture, and, of course, Gregor's vision of the future can't wait to taste the future, can't wait to be back, which I think it's lovely. Thank you so much, Nixon. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. It's very warming and feels really good to hear these kind words, and we will probably meet again at, by the dependent. So with this positive comments, I think this is a rep. So thank you so much for being here. It's been really a pleasure to hear your story. Although I knew it already, but it's been a real pleasure. So can't wait to see you in person and to see you at Vineita Lee. Thank you, Beverly. Stay well. Okay. So Karla, Beverly. And now thank you so much and see you very soon. Thank you for calling. Great. Have a great one, everybody. Oh, bye. Listen to the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your podcasts. We're on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, notify, email ifm, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. Until next time, teaching.