EP 2316 Alberto Martinez-Interiano IWA interviews Emiliano Giorgi of Progetto Sete Winery | Clubhouse Ambassadors’ Corner

And again, talking about natural wine, this natural wine movement has evolved significantly in the past few years. Right? How do you see the future going in for natural wine? And what role do you believe projected said they will play in it? The future is not easy, but I think now there is an economic and global crisis, especially in the wine world, you know, the exports are slow people have little money after COVID, the cost of living has increased it, but the salaries are still the same. So the wine market is a bit in crisis. But Also in the natural wine market, there is a bit of confusion. There are some wines sold as natural, but they are not. Welcome to the special clubhouse session of the Italian wine podcast. Listen in as members of the Italian wine community engage in fascinating conversations about contemporary wine topics. If you enjoyed the show, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. And remember to subscribe and rate the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your pods. Hello. Welcome to Clubhouse, the Investors Corner. My name is Carlaraviano, and today I'm pleased to welcome Alberto Martinez Incerciano, and his guest Emiliano Dordi from. Welcome, everybody. Hello. Thank you. Thanks for the invitation. Our pleasure. Our pleasure. So Alberto is going to be the one asking the questions today. But before passing them back to him, I would like to share a few information about his background. So Alberto is a wine educator, writer, and communicator based in Seattle. His work has been featured in industry and trade publications, such as a Sum TV, the Vintner project, and Italian wine podcast. Judge at multiple international wine competitions, he also teaches WSTD and wine scholar kill courses in both Seattle and Portland in Oregon. So Alberto, how did you discover about Progetto Cete wines? Yeah. I ran into them. I was in a tasting in, in Romeaboo in Rome a few months ago, and it was, based in about natural wines in in Oteca, and that's kinda the first time that I tried Brigetto set as wines. Amazing. So how did you get to know Emiliano Dorothy, and why did you decide to invite him today? Yeah. So Emiliano was part of the event along with, his partners, Arkansas Martinez. And I liked about his project for a few of those. First of all, I found their wines delicious, really refreshing, complex, and really with a lot of authenticity. I also like their story about their commitment to natural winemaking and this, stewardship of the environment. And besides that, I like the fact that they also focus on this, preserving the cultural heritage and the community of their place and really revalue on the land, especially that has a such a long historical tradition. Amazing. So what are the learning objectives that we should expect from this interview? I have three learning objectives. First, it's just learn about the terrar and the local grape varieties of the Pivarium area, which they're based in the Southern Latio. Also, to get a deep dive on a project, basically focus on restoring all vineyards and revaluing this historical landscape. And finally, I think we'll get a closer look into the world of Italian natural wine making. Wonderful. It sounds extremely interesting, so I'll not mute myself so you can properly introduce your guests and his project. Thank you so much. Thank you, Karla. And, yeah, I'd like to start by just doing a quick intro on Emiliano. I'd love to take the floor. A few minutes. Emiliano is the cofounder of Progetto Sete, which is this, a farming and winemaking and cultural project based in Southern Latio. He founded the project in twenty thirteen in partnership with two other friends and with the main objectives of recovering these abandoned vineyards and preserving the rich heritage of the land. The winery projectile sette focuses on making natural wines from local grape varieties using a very traditional low intervention approach in all his wines are made without any additives of sulfites. So I think, I'd like to then pass it along and, welcome Emiliano again to the Italian White podcast. We really thank you for joining us, and we appreciate the taking the time to speak with us today. Thank you for inviting me. So, Milano, first of all, I'd like to know a little bit more about your personal background and the story behind How projectors are they thinking about? It was a long journey for me. I got into a helicopter, win making through several steps. It was like, spontaneous fermentation, you know, I think that this process started at, university time. At that time, I moved to Rome where I studied the anthropology, sociology and communication. During my studies, I was, involved with two critical consumption. So with some friends, we founded, social and cultural association. The focus was on critical consumption and also about permaculture, local food, and we started to grow rich tables for us and for some friends and families. We are running some workshop about foraging. So this is the first step that I start to work in agriculture. Then when I finished it, my studies, I worked for several companies, writing, travel guides, about food and wine, you know, but it was not now for me. I I would like to leave the office work because it didn't fit me. At that time, there wasn't smart work, you know, in Italy. So I love to work also physically. So I decided to change something in my life to get my hands dirty. In two thousand ten and twenty eleven, in the August time, I worked at Biodynamic winery in the north of Latvia. There, I discover the world of natural wine. So then I come back to Rome. I work at the office again for two years, and then I finally, I decided to leave my office job and come back to Breverno, my own town. There, I met my partners, Angel and Martina, and that time, Angelo worked for an organic farm. So I told them about natural wine and my experience at La Coste. The winery were a worker. And we decided to buy some grapes to start to make wine together. It was the first time. It was, in two thousand and fourteen. After this first experience, we went enthusiastic. So we discovered the potential of our terroir even through the wines we had made were not very good. But, you know, it was our first experience making wine alone, and it's not easy to make wine, especially natural wine without that with someone else's grades, but this experience pushed us to go ahead. So we took the next step which was a mapping work of our area looking for vineyards to manage and to rent. In somewhere, I believe, Emiliano, that I read that decision to start the project happened at a pub, right, over a few years. Is that true? Yes. Yes. We were in a pub in Piverlo. We share a beer there. So I start to tell to our country in Martina about my experience, about natural wine, and the country who told me about its job in farming. So we talk about to make wine together, and it start there. Oh, that's great. And so the name seti literally means thirst in Italian. Besides The literal meaning, why else does the name symbolize to you guys? Okay. The name, yes. It's like Anatura Mid, you know, for us to do something good for us. Something we love for the places, where we were born, where we lived. And also to use agriculture, by making as a tool of social and cultural change that pushes the people to find a balance with the relationships with nature is an art goal, you know, but we think that this is very important for a natural farming company. But I think sette has a double meaning, a natural need, also, like the French people call it, van de Swaff, vinita sette, thirsty wines, you know? It's a style of wines, fresh, low in alcohol to drink, not necessary with, an important plate of food to drink Mhmm. Anytime you love too. No. I think that name totally applies to the style of the wines that you make. So that's that's really great. Can we move on to now the location where the wineries? I know that you guys are based in Piverno, which is a Southern Par lazio, roughly halfway between Rome and Napoli. For those of us who are not super familiar with the area, can you tell us just a little bit more about the region and just paint a picture of what the area of Adam was like? Yeah. We are halfway between room and Naples more close to Rome. It's about one hour south by car, one hundred kilometers. So this area is, very interested in an agronomic vision because we are between the preopening mountains call it Montelepini and the seaside, the cost of Chicheo National Park. The climate is mild, but getting hotter year by year. The climate change is really problem. But the soils also are hybrids because we have, silty clay soil in the mountainside, but in the other side, in the sea side, we have, sandal soil, really interesting because our red and yellow sands rich in silico. So the wine from this side are really mineral and really different from the wines we made with the grapes from the mountainsides. Besides very culture, There are other crops that are in the area. Right? It's not a monocultural place, but recall that there's some olives and, even, buffalo farms, etcetera. So there's a lot of different crops growing in the area. Right? Yes. Because in the past, the white making here, everyone make wine, like I think in many regions in Italy, in the past, every family make wine. But starting from seventies and eighties the people start to leave the countryside to do another job. So the vineyards we found are very old vineyards, but really rich biodiversity because in the past, the families spent all the day in the vineyard, the growing food, and the planted vines. It was like, family agriculture, you know. And in terms of local grape varieties, I understand that primarily, the grape varieties from the region are the guys that you you work with, right, both red and white. Can you just share, like, an overview of the main grapes, that you work with? Yeah. It's Otonese, it's a white grape. We have more white grapes than reds. And Otonese, it's a white grape. It's colored also bambino bianco. It has a double name, but everyone here call it Otonese. We have also Muscado bianco and, Malvasia, puntinata, Malvasia de lazio, and a bit of Trebiano, but more tonese. But, you know, in the old vineyards, in the past, the peasants planted a bit random sometimes. So we are also more different local varieties. And are those mostly old vines or are there relatively new plantings? Are old vines? We have old old vines from fifty years old two hundred. So we have, an old vineyard that was planted in nineteen eighteen. So it's really old. Wow. And it's also really interesting because it was planted in the sea side. And we have, the sand soil there. So it's not grafted. It's a a different without graft. So it's, really, really interesting. Wow. Impressive. Impressive. So tell us about this, recovery process that you guys have. Because you mentioned earlier, some of these old vines had been nearly abandoned for a few years, right, before you guys showed up. What what was that like? What was it in terms of the process of recovering and kind of re reviving these old vines. The vineyards weren't all abandoned because we understand the concept of recovery as, in the sense that the goal of the project is, to save the few remaining vineyards in our area. So we start to work with old man. Like I said, starting from the seventies, people talk to work the land. So when we started, we collaborate with the old people, cultivating together with them, and then renting them in years. In some cases, after a few years buying the lands, some of these old men now are dead. But in the town, the word spread, and the people started looking for us to ask if we wanted to take care of the old vineyards. Some cases also, widows come to the cellar asking us if we are interesting in cultivating their hose bound vineyards. So there is these relationships about the community because the people now know what is projected and asked to us to manage the old vineyards because if we don't do it, they cut it off. So it's, collaboration, you know. Yeah. That's so interesting. And how many actors do you guys work with today? And is that all through those relationships with the, kind of, old growers? Would arrive today around five eight stars divided to twelve different plots because the vineyards are not very big. So the plots sometimes are around the three thousand meters So are many is this a vineyard that to manage is not easy, especially the last years because climate change is a big problem. We have a lot of difficult, especially in twenty twenty three when we lost ninety five percent of the groups. So this is the situation. But, yeah, we are around five hectares. In in terms of a video culture, so kinda addressing your earlier point, can you elevate on your approach? Are you working sustainable and organic and what specific practices are you implementing in the vineyard? We are an organic farm certified, but our approach is hybrid. Sometimes we do some biodynamic treatment we try to understand the differences of the period and the moments of the vineyards and especially the vintage. We are lucky because the vines we grow are old plants and the vineyards are rich in biodiversity. So we have natural grassing. Some years, we plant green manure to fix the nitrogen. So that helped the indigenous cyst that are on the grapes in the spontaneous fermentation. In this period now, we are finishing the pruning. We tried to prune the last moment before the spring time to delay the plants awakening and the budding because in the last years, there have always been many frost between the end of April and the beginning of May So to save the harvest, we are carrying on with this strategy. And I imagine that requires a lot more work and a lot more dedication. Right? You guys are clearly constantly either doing one thing or the other in the vineyard. Right? It's a lot more hands on Yes. Every vintage is a challenge, you know. The last vintage in twenty twenty four, we start to harvest early August. Was, really hot, was warm, So we decided to start the harvest early in the morning, three o'clock. So our night harvest was really funny and also it works because we bring to the cellar a very fresh grapes without problems, the grapes were the full bunch without breaking grapes during the transport. So we try to do our best in this difficult situation, you know. So, Emiliano, how about the philosophy in the seller? We work without additives. It's zero additives, just grapes, no sulfates at any stage. So it's an artwork. We take the risk, but you know, we need to make this work, this kind of wine with spontaneous fermentation. So with the indigenousists, we need high quality organic grapes. So we work a lot in the vineyards, but also the vineyards we grow are old. So the grapes are healthy when we have it. And, so we work with this style. And I believe that it shows. Alright. I found your wines really vibrant and fresh and alive. And I think a lot has to do with both your practices and the vineyard and in the winery. So let's add a little bit more about your wines, right, your portfolio, which one thing that impressed me is the fact that you guys have a broad range that includes white still wines, sparkling orange wines, roses, and reds. Tell us kind of what's your flagship and the main wines that you that you work with Oh, yes. We make many different wines, a lot of labels, you know. This is also because we have many plots. We tend to verify separated the the grapes of each single plot. But it depends about the vintage. The goal is to put in the bottle. It's hard, but we try to do this. We have more white wine because we have more white grapes. We make some wines like, we work a lot also with the packaging, with the the labels. My brother, even, is our graphic designer, you know. So we work together. And also Roberta, my partner in life. She worked with the visual arts. So it's a teamwork. You know, this is also the community, the family of City wines that work all together to a single idea and a single wine. And I think that all of our wines have this interesting kind of edgy names, but also what stands out with that those eye catching artistic labels. So A couple that I really liked, one was, bomba, which is this, sparkling, uh, otonazi. Right? Can you tell us a little bit more how because that's kind of the first time that I've ever tried sparkling, notonese. Oh, tonese is a very subtle grape, you know. So you have the grapes with a lot of sugar. You can go with the a long maceration with the many days of skin contact, but If you have not too much sugar, it's also really good, with the bubbles. So we make Bumba. It's Bumba is our sparkling wine. It is a a fermented wine because we make it heading a fresh juice to a still wine. So we don't use sugar. We use the sugar of the grape juice. So we put some fresh juice in a still wine, and then we bought to it. And then we also do at the gorsement. After six months, the first batch, and then we wait twelve months. We arrive also twenty six months on the final lease on the So we are more complex, taste, but at the same time, really with a good drinkability and a very fast wine. No. Absolutely. Yes. Another one that I think called my attention was is, which is this orange wine. Right? Is that also a hundred percent of Tonese? And tell us a little bit more about kind of the process and the maceration of that? Yes. Bucher is one of our orange wine. Bucher in Italian means skin. So we make it with the twenty days of skin contact. The grapes are from two plots of seventy years old vineyards. And we make it, with the twenty days of skin contact, then we press it and we use a steel tank. So here, we can taste a new taste than the bomba because when you go with the, long skin contact the the automated grapes, you have some taste, about, roots, spices. So it's really interesting. And we have eighty percent of of tonese and a bit of twenty percent. And what does the what does it add in this case to the blend? It's not a blend. It's a field blend because we have it in the vineyards. In the past, the people, when planted the vineyards have many lines with, and then we have two lines of Malvasia Quintinata. So the the harvest, we are vested all together and put all together fermenting together. Okay. And is that mostly the most plantings? Are those field blends, or do you have specific plots that are for a single variety? Oh, it's field blend because, you know, in the past the people also in the old vineyards sometimes some plants died and in the past someone put a new variety close, but it's really hard to our vested all separated. And also the quantities are not too much to make many different wine with just one kind of grape, just one variety. No, then. Yeah. That makes sense. And in terms of the red wines, the sort of the main great variety in this area is a, right? And tell us a little bit more about, and specifically, commandante is one of kind of the flagship red that you guys have. Yes. Chezonese, it's a really interesting grape. We make it with the not long maceration because we don't like to extract too much tannins. We love the fresh wines, you know. So it depends from the vintages, but, you know, we make it with the five, six days of skin contact. It depends from the alcoholic fermentation, such as an is a is a very powerful grape, but our idea is to make it a little bit more fresh than the traditional strong reds. No. Yeah. And it is fresh. It's fresh and sort of has that savory and, especially, like, great drinkability. So, absolutely. And how about one or another great variety that you work with is Right? Probably in very small quantities. Tell us a little bit more of a narrow bone oak, you know, what's the profile and how do you use it in your wines? We made in the past a wine called it bucconero, black hole with the narrow bone but it was a Negos wine in the French style like the French say because we bought this grape from Cori. Cori is a little village close to Brevero, and this grape is typical from this area. And it's really strong red, but also in this case, we made it in two thousand and seventeen. I think, yes, seventeen. And we tried to make a little bit more fresh, but little bonus needs time, you know. So it's a very interesting, but strong reds. One thing that I think most of the listeners of Italian One podcast, we like to go deep into some of those lesser known grapes. I think another one is Bonamiko, right, or good friend. Do you still work with that and tell us more about, yeah, for those of us that are not too familiar with Bonamiko? Yes. We have a very few grapes, few plants about Bonamiko. I think it was typical from Tuscany, but, in the past, we managed, little linear, little plot of Bonamico, in prosedi, close to Breverno, area. Is, really interesting because I love the fruity and the the aromatic side. It's not too much aromatic, but when you use it without a long aspiration, the fruit go up and I love it. It's a very interesting grape, Bonamico. And also the name is really funny. And what do you know why is that? Is that because it's easy to grow, and it's kind of the grower's friend Or Oh, I don't know because, we left this leader plot. We left this leader plot because it was too far from our area. So we decided to give it back to the owner and no more. Okay. Okay. Good. So kind of shifting gears now, talking about the community and the community involvement. I know that's something that you emphasize a lot. Right? Based on all the different initiatives over these two years, How has the local community responded to your efforts? At the first time, the whole people, we met in the vineyards, sometimes we're not really happy about us because they asked to us What are you doing here? What do you want? We wear the news, the new people in the land, you know? But after some years, the people start to call us. We have a team work with old man, and Also, we think that natural wine is, a soul food. There's also a tool to spread positive values like the respect for nature and people respect for diversity and the importance of conviviality and to stay together and share a bottle. So after some years, the people are really happy about our work in the countryside, now We reside many call about a new vineyard to take care. But sometimes, are really small, and we say we can take care about two lines. We need a little bit more. But now there is a really good relationships with the people here. No. That's great. Yeah. And it takes some time, I guess, but you guys seem to have earned the trust and the Yeah. Of other community. That's that's great to hear. Speaking of sustainability. I know that, yeah, we talked a little bit before. Are there any other, like, biggest challenges as you're kind of trying to maintain this ethos, especially with all the things going on? It's difficult, but we try. We try to find a balance. It's hard. We try to work with many partnership, and also it's not easy. It's not easy, Alberto, but, we do our best to find the balance, you know. But in our idea, in our vision, the wine of Prochatto City is another wine. So we can't change our idea and our way to make wine because we lost our identity. We start to make the wine in this way. We love to do it. We take the risk. We are working a lot also with some project about wine testing and with some collaboration with some clubs around the preventive and the last region. So we work in this way. And has that been a challenge of account balancing this sustainable techniques with traditional video culture? Do you see that they're complement each other, or has there been a a times where you've had to decide one way or the other? We are exploring many way to make different styles because we don't have a historical past about the style of our area because we have no many wineries here. The wineries that are in this area are conventional wineries. So we are pioneers in natural winemaking, but we try to find the right balance about the freshness and the thirsty wine also. Like, I said you, we make fresh wines, but also we love to have mature grapes to don't start the harvest, too much yearly. But in the last years, we have many problems, with the maturation. So every year, everything changed. Yeah. And I think that's gonna be the norm in the years to come. Right? So, yeah, it requires to be constantly on your feet in adjusting accordingly. And again, talking about natural wine, you know, this natural wine movement has evolved significantly in the past few years. Right? How do you see the future going in for natural wine? And what role do you believe projectile said they will play in it? The future is not easy to think about the future, but I think now there is an economic and global crisis in many sectors and especially also in the wine world, you know, the exports are slow. People have little money after COVID, the cost of living has increased. But the salaries are still the same. So the wine market is a bit in crisis, I think. But also in the natural wine market, there is a bit of confusion. There are some wines sold as natural, but they are not. And also there are natural wines in some cases are too funky or have defectives, but I think this is part of the game. And anything that you see that you will do differently, or is that the idea kind of now that you find, your style pretty much stay true to it? We go ahead with our idea, but we try to work better in the vineyards. We try to work better in the cellar also. We are obsessive about the cleaning in cellar. So our challenge is to make a good real natural wine with just grapes. I agree. And while at the same time I found your wines, have that edge in that sort of authenticity of natural wines, but also their clean and sound without any faults, which, yeah, I think that's makes it very refreshing. Absolutely. In terms of, kind of, to close, any plans, any new projects for Progyto set in the horizon that you can share, When we started, in my mind, I have two projects wine and food. My dream is also to grow food in the vineyards and run also Projatophami. Projective family is to grow local food and to sell it and share it with the community around the rivero. It's not easy, but we would try to start this project next year. So I don't know when, but we have in our mind for many years. That sounds really exciting. Do you know what, specific produce you will be growing? We have some typical vegetables here, like broccoli tea that is a special vegetables from this area. We have also a a low food label protection about this typical kind variety of broccoli The name is is is very funny. Is slang and also other vegetables for the everyday meal, you know, like in summertime, tomatoes and of their vintage tables. No. That's great. And that sounds really exciting. So I can't wait to hear more once you guys kick off a projectile family in in the next field. That that will be really interesting. So, Emiliano, I think that we're almost at time, but to finally, one thing, if you could give one piece of advice to someone in Italy or abroad, that is, looking to start a similar type of initiative. What would that be? Don't do it. Now I've junkie, of course, it's hard. It's hard because, the climate crisis is, is a challenge, but, believe in what you love because we started from zero. And when you love something and when you put your roots, your ideas, your dreams in something you do, you find a way to do it. So don't give up. Yeah. That's a that's a great one to close. So, in the beginning, thanks again for the time. Personally found our conversation. Very informational and inspiring. And, I really liked the idea for Joseph Zeta. Right? This I think you guys are a just a shining example of a project that honors traditions, support sustainability, and brings communities together while at the same time making amazing wines. For me, I think it reminds me that wine is just more than just the beverage. Right? There are stories of the land of people and everything, the journey that goes behind the bottle. So as you're well articulated. So, yeah, that's it for me. I'll pass it on back to Karla to see if there's any other questions from our listeners. Thank you, Alberto. Thank you all. We wait you in Piverna. We wait you in Piverna so we can see and the vineyards together, take a work, and try some wines together. No. That'll be great. Yeah. Looking forward to that. Thank you. Thank you, Godla. Thanks. Amazing. Amazing. I'm really I'm really glad I had the chance to listen to you. I agree with everything Alberto said. Your conversation, your project is extremely inspiring. And as, let's say, like, a next generation, I'm not gonna say my age, but I will say I'm young in a way. So it's very promising and, like, positive and inspiring for me to see projects like this. So thank you. Thank you so much for real. And with this note, I will close the room, but thank you. Have a great one. Listen to the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your podcasts. We're on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, email ISM, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. 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