Ep. 2419 Mihai Popescu IWA interviews Carlotta Salvini of Consorzio del vino Brunello di Montalcino | Clubhouse Ambassadors' Corner

I didn't have a proper experience on how to taste wine or how to, let's say, taste the wine properly, understanding what's in the glass and how to communicate wine, in a way a little bit more accessible and, started to understand this language. It's almost like when you wanna play an instrument, you know. You, you need to understand how does it work, the notes, and the Pentagon, and it's whine, it's almost in the same way. You know, you need to understand that language to really feel that. Welcome to the special club house session of the Italian wine podcast. Listen in as members of the Italian wine community engage in vaccinating conversations about contemporary wine topics. If you enjoyed the show, please consider donating through italian wine podcast dot com, and remember to subscribe and rate the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your pods. Hello, and welcome to a new episode of the Club House Ambassador Corner on the Italian wine podcast. My name is Rosa, and I'm delighted to guide you through today's session. For those of you who are new to the show, here's a quick reminder, The Ambassador's corner is a space where the Italian wine ambassadors certified by the Van Italy International Academy have the chance to interview their favorite producers. It's a unique format that gives our ambassadors full freedom to ask any questions they like. This is a live session that is being recorded and is released later on the Italian wine podcast to reach more listeners. And especially for those who cannot participate due to time zone differences. If you'd like to listen live next time and even ask your own questions in the chat here, just find the Italian wine room on the club house app. We announce upcoming sessions regularly on our Instagram, so be sure to follow us. Now let me introduce today's guest host. Mihai Popescu, a fellow Italian wine ambassador based in Canada. Mihai is a seasoned wine professional with a strong focus on helping producers successfully enter and grow in the Canadian market. He holds the prestigious WZ diploma, and he is an international wine judge and is highly active in the global wine trade. Mihai supports wineries with strategic brand positioning, market access, and distribution solutions while also curating professional tastings and attending key trade shows. Through his work, he combines in market expertise with digital influence actively promoting Italian wines to a wide audience of wine lovers and professionals via social media and content creation. Today, he'll be speaking with Carlotta Salvini from the consorto Delvino Brunllo de Montalcino. So welcome behind Carlotta. We are very happy to have you here today. Hello, Rosa. Thank you for this opportunity. I was really looking forward to talk to Karlotta and to you, and I think it's gonna be an interesting episode. Thank you. Thank you, Mihai, and thank you Rosa for having me such a great pleasure to share a little bit of my experience and my work at the consortium Bernality Montalcino. And thank you both for finding time today to have this conversation with us. And, first of all, before we move on to your interview, Mahai, let me begin with our three Rachel questions. First of all, please tell me, how did you discover the wines of Consorto Delvino Brunellino. So first of all, in two thousand six scene. I think it was my first contact with the Bruno de Montecino wines. I attended a trade show here in Montreal where I had the chance to taste different brunellos from different producers. And I was really impressed by their elegance, their complexity, potential to age. So then the more I studied wines, I got more advanced into the my wine studies and my wine career. And I realized that these wines are among the top wines of the world. And for me, I think we should talk more about it. We should promote them more. And, they have such great potential, and I feel like I really wanted to talk about it and to get the chance to talk to Carlotta about it because it's such interesting wines, and I would really want to see her active on the brunellos and the rest of the Montecino. Now please tell us, why did you select carlotta as your featured guest? So as we all know, the consorted of Bernero de Montaccino is a via support tariff for our Nita International Wine Academy. And last year, I had the opportunity and privilege, I would say, to attend Benvenuto Brunelo, which Karlota's probably gonna talk a bit more. It's, an annual event where you can taste on Primer Bruno is and Rosos. And I was, really impressed by the quality of the event, the communication, the marketing. And during this time that I spent there, I got the chance to meet Carlotta and to see how much of a great wine professional she is. Also, she's a fellow W said diploma, aluminum. So I think that creates a bond between us. And, yeah, we all know how hard that those exams are. So once you get in that range, I know it creates connections and also I really, really enjoyed her work at the Benvenuto Brunllo, and I'm sure she does a great job with everything she's involved. And at last, please tell us what are the learning objectives that we should effect from this interview today? I think what I would like to bring, to the listeners from this interview is understanding a bit the wines of Montalcino, the Roso, the difference between the Roso and the Brunelo, and understand a bit the roles of the consortium and the marketing programs they have also to talk about a bit the trends in the global markets and how they position themselves. And for sure, I would really, I mean, really interested it in their educational initiatives because I find that it's very important to spread the knowledge about these amazing wines. Okay. Thank you. I think that is going to be a very interesting conversation both for wine lovers and also for the whole Italian wine professional community. So thank you. It's time for me to mute myself. Now I'm turning the mic to you Mihai. Hi, Karilotta. Thank you for taking your time and joining us today. I know we're a very busy one professionals, but I think it's a great opportunity to discover the wines and the consortio and your role at the Brunello Dimontalcino. So I will start with something that I'm curious about and then something maybe the listeners would like to learn. How did you get into the wine world and how did you get your current role at the consortio? Thank you, Mihai. Yeah. Let's start from the beginning. I would say that I started to work in a wine industry out of curiosity. First of all, and I would say that what began as a personal interest evolved into a profession. And first of all for me is also a passion overall. Anyway, despite I work in marketing and communication, I have, technical background because I, yeah, I hold a master's degree in agronomy with a specialization in agro engineering and then a degree in, Viticulture and inology. And as you mentioned, later, I completed the WST diploma in the twenty twenty four. And I worked in the direct sales before my experience at the consortium. I was the hospitality and direct to consumer manager at winery in the Cantic classical region. Feltsinum. So first started there in the twenty fifteen. And at the same time, I was attending a summary course with a visa association because I, you know, I am really developed deep interest in wine and, in wine tasting because after my background in agronomy and Viticulture, I really wanted to understand much better what's you know, beyond the label. I didn't have a proper experience on how to taste wine or how to, let's say, taste the wine properly, understanding what's in the glass and how to communicate wine, in a way, a little bit more accessible and, started to understand this language. It's almost like when you wanna play an instrument, you know. You, you need to understand how does it work, the notes, and the Pentagon, and it's whine, it's almost in the same way. You know, you need to understand that language to really feel that. And yes, so that was the beginning of my experience. Then, my exposure in the wine industry in Kris, the one I was named, in the twenty nineteen, best Italian Sommelier by my association, Fiza, the Sommelier Association. And at the end of twenty twenty two, there was this opportunity at the consortia, Bruno, that they were looking for somebody for, you know, lead the marketing and promotion communication activities there. And yes, that's, that's the beginning of my experience at the at the consortium. So my career bridge is both technical, but also communication. And the fact that I worked across production, hospitality, and marketing allowed me to understand much better the critical points of the wine industry and how to bring a strategic storytelling to promote the denomination globally. I think that's very interesting because it's very hard nowadays. Sometimes people are very good at winemaking or some people are just good, so many years, but to be able to bridge in between and to be able to communicate. Sometimes it's, I think, the combination you have, it's amazing to be able to understand the consumer to understand the winemaking and to be able to communicate better is such a great thing. And I'm glad to hear that, and it's, really impressive. And to move on, I would like to know Just briefly to our listeners to maybe describe a bit the wines of Montalcino, but you don't have to go into very technical details, mostly about the differences between the Rosa and the Brunelo. So that we can all be on the same page. Absolutely, Amy. Hi. Be happy to share some insights about Montecino and the territory. First of all, Montecino is home to one of Italy's most iconic grape varieties, the sangiovese, and sangiovese, it's the only grape variety allowed in both Brunoo and Rosa de Montalcino. The denomination of a brunello de Montecino despite its concentration because we are talking about, two thousand one hundred hectares registered as brunello. And roughly eight hundred and sixty hectares registered. There's Rosa. So it's a quite limited area if you compare it with other wine regions. If you think that Chianti classico is, seven thousand hectares. So it's a very limited area, but within the denomination, there is so much diversity as I, you know, explained in the seminar that you attended with the Venetal International Academy it was interesting to look at the map of the three d video that we made that there is a huge difference in terms of altitude because we're ranging from two hundred fifty meters above sea level up to six hundred meters in the past to the Lumi Spinto or on top of the village of Montecino, we are at five hundred sixty four meters. So a huge difference across the denomination north to south and east to West. You have to imagine Montalcino almost like a pyramid, let's say. So on top, there's the village, and there are the four main slopes, I would say, north east, northwest, South East and Southwest. And across the denomination, the diversity is described also by the region of the soils and the aspects, so how the vineyards are oriented across the appalachian and all these factors have an important influence in the style of wines that are made and the stylistic choices among the producers. That's the fascinating thing about Montecino because it's all about sangiovese and what makes the region special is how this grape expresses itself in a huge diversity within the appalachian from, you know, the Bruno de Montelcino that, of course, due to the aging requirements, production regulations must be aged five years. So it has to be released at the fifth year following harvest and at the sixth year for the reservoir. So the current release right now is the twenty twenty for Brunoo de Montecino in twenty nineteen for the Brunoo de Montecino reserva. From the powerful age worthy Bruno to the fresher and more immediate style of Rosa, let's say contemporary style of a sangiovese because due to the production regulations, Rosa can be released the next year of the harvest at September. So right now we are enjoying the twenty twenty three current release. And in September, we will see the new vintage twenty twenty four. So if you think about that, this is just one grape variety, but you have, you know, an enormous amount of diversity within the wines and the producers. So it's really fascinating on how Sanjay is shaping within the appalachian. And it I got the chance last here to witness and to experience this diversity. And I can say there is so much diversity between producers, winemaking styles, altitudes, and you can taste it in the wines and the difference between the Roso and the Pronello, as you said, the rosso might be more approachable, new to more refreshing, more foody. And it leads to the next question that I'm gonna ask you. The rosco de Montalcino nowadays is gaining a lot of traction globally. And even here on the Canadian market, even the buyers for the monopoly are actively looking for Rosa de Montalino to have in their portfolio. Our producer is embracing this as a long term opportunity or just responding to current marketing. Trends because as we know, we like lighter reds nowadays. We seem to try to avoid the super oaked or a longer aged red wines, which is not always the case for Bruno. I won't let some producer make it very, very elegant. But do you think it's the answer of the producers to get to this opportunity with the Russell? Yes. I would say that Rosa de Montocino right now is no longer seen as a second wine, within the appalachian. And also in the market, I believe it's a modern expression of Montecino as it can offer accessibility, freshness, and also tapacity. Because what makes a Sanjay really special is that he's able to maintain a sense of place no matter what kind of winemaking techniques you use. You do need to perform winemaking techniques to enhance the characteristics of the grape variety because Sangiovese is able to be really attached to the terror of a region. You know, what I mean? So it's almost like when you go in Piedmont and you taste in the biolo and you are able to determine the differences between, you know, a barrel from Sarah Lunga or another one from La Mora, you know, So Sanjay has this really characteristic. He's able to maintain a sense of place. And this is really important also in the rosso de montalcina. And also the producers, I believe, they recognize its value and are increasingly investing in the Rosalie Montalcino as a standalone product. We have also an event, which is dedicated to the Rosalie Montalcino. And I believe Rosa, it's a really an amazing wine to attract consumers and is also an interesting tool, as a contemporary wine, considering also the market trends at the moment. The market and the weather, like, for example, here in Canada, we'd like to drink a lot of red wines in the winter, but now it's getting warmer and warmer in the summer. So we're moving slowly towards a different type of lighter reds. And I think, in my opinion, Roso is a good wine for summer, especially served a bit chilled. It has its fruittier. It's easier to understand, and it pairs very well with a lot of dishes. So how do you guys market this freshness when you think of marketing campaigns or how do you support producers into better communicating? This about the product. One of the aim of the consortia is to promote and the main one of, I mean, to promote the appalachian to protect and represent the producers through different actions. As we organize events, tastings, and training programs globally. And we work, of course, to preserve the quality and the identity of the appalachian. The producers are supported through different actions it could be through participation to events, wine fairs, but at the same time through training programs and educational activities, which even it seems that there is not a direct involvement of the producers because through the educational activities, you know, you don't need the producers to attend, but you kind of showcase the products. But it's actually a good way to showcase the wineries and the wineries at the same time that can get the benefit of the exposure to that audience, and you can really work on the branding positioning and on the credibility, on the reputation. So even if it doesn't seem that there is a a direct advantage of the producer to send the wines through educational activities is actually really important to build the reputation on long terms. So, yeah, it's important to have both of the activities. So activities that could involve directly producers and activities were also the consultant can play a role in more branding and building reputation and credibility? I definitely agree with you because it's very, very important. It all starts by training by doing this all these educational initiatives because that's the way to spread the word. In the end, if you educate people about the product, they will get interested in. And, for us, like ambassadors, I think it's very important to learn more about this region. And if we have access to the right information and to the right background, we're gonna be able to communicate better with the consumers and to be able to promote the wines and to do tastings and such, such on. And, last year, when I attended Benvenuto Bruno, you were talking and other people from the consortium about the new vintage regulating system, and it created some buzz. And I was curious to know what prompted the change and how Has it been received worldwide this new vintage rating system? Yes. It was at the time that we were still working on the when I was, at the seminar in Verona, and later at Ben Venuto Brunllo, we finally presented the new vintage evaluation method, Bruno Loforma. And, this was really a big change for the denomination as we were coming from a a start rating system, so a more quantitative approach. So now that we felt that there was a need for a more transparent contemporary approach tailored to Sanjay. So we are talking about something which is built specific to Sanjay, and a unique and distinctive model for Montecino. Really important also for the producers because they are able to, you know, to better understand the vintage characteristics through weather data collection and the comparison of those weather data with the testing panel evaluation. So we are crossing actually climatic, agronomic data, weather data with the sensor analysis, which is something really innovative also in the communication that provide a statement, a final statement that the consulsure release that for the vintage twenty twenty has been captivating succulent and bright vintage and it's really important also for the stakeholders press trade to have, not a judgmental statement, but it has to provide how the vintage has been overall. So for those people who are more interest it in looking at the data. There is, of course, in the final statement, all the characteristics of the vintage in terms of wine growing season, temperature, rainfall average, everything you need from that point of view. And at the same time, you have the sensory analysis released by the testing panel. And so far, from what I've heard, feedback has been very positive from producers, journalists, and trade. And I think it's even easier for the consumer to understand it, especially if it's put in words, like, when you mentioned the description of the twenty twenty, it sounded very interesting for the consumer perspective. And if consumers or want professionals would like to learn more about the Vintage trading system? Do we find it on the consortium website or do you guys send it out? Yes. Absolutely. And we are also developing some more materials related to the brinello forma, because I would say that the first year when we released the brinello forma, which was last year in twenty twenty four for the Benvenuto brinello, that was, let's say, a transitional period because the twenty twenty vintage of Brunoo de Montalcino, which was at the Benvenuto, Brunoo, and was, you know, part of this new evaluation method already received the star rating system was a vintage rated as five stars. So it was a transitional period in this way. Let's say that, this method was, you know, to support the evidence of the previous rating system, and we are going through the twenty twenty one vintage, which will be released officially at the Benvenuto Brunalo this year where the new rating system, the new evaluation method, the Bruno, Florida, will be the official one standalone. That's great to hear. And, we'll keep an eye on, all the news from the rating, and I'm looking forward to know what's the twenty one vintage going to look like. So now I'm I'm gonna take you in a bit about the trade and, experts. And, I would like to know how does the Montalcino or the consularity or the region balance, as we know, it's a prestigious wine, And how do you balance this, the prestige and accessibility in global markets, especially now that we know there's so much stress and, prices, stress, and costs that are in tariffs. How do you think the producers or what strategies are you having to keep it as a prestigious wine, but also to have it somehow accessible in the global markets. Yes. It's a a really challenging question, especially in this particular times that we are you know, we are facing a bit of changes also in the wine industry. Also concerns among the producers and also among the stakeholders. But generally, we aim to preserve the heritage and the prestige of Bernalu di Montalcino, but we wanna remain open and engaging at the same time. It's really important to don't look, you know, close to outside. And the Bernalu remains, of course, the flagship wine of their denomination while Roso de Montecino is really helpful for us to reach new audiences. So it's really important to find a good compromise between, you know, offering wines with identity and quality, but also keeping the relevance and the importance of the appellation. Of course, this is made through different initiatives and actions through our main markets, let's say, that as you may know, our top markets include the US, Canada, UK, North and Europe. We are very well represented across the states, and we also see some growing interest in Asia. And, you know, during these uncertain times, the strong relationships and consistent communication, well targeted strategies are really essential to face this uncertain situations from the market point of view, I would say. And out of my experience, I think during certain times like this, there could be opportunity because I find the consumers are going back to classics instead of trying to experiment with it in your region, and I think Bruno is a classic. And I think because people trust the brand, trust the name, trust the region, I think they they are ready to still spend money on it. What's the on your take on that? Do you see that there is, people's, I think, mostly the confidence on the quality of the product plays a big role as being one of the big classics of the wines. Yeah. You are right, Mahai. And I totally agree that it's really important in these times to be consistent. First of all, because by consistency, you help to maintain your reputation credibility and of course you build loyalty with consumers, with trade, also with press because, you know, the consortium plays across the different segments. So it's really important in these times to be consistent through different kind of strategies, but also to be also in the storytelling through education and experiences that can go beyond the label. I think that digital is also helping in this way. You know, before I I worked there at the consortia was something that wasn't really, you know, paying that much attention. But right now, even for this situation, building strategy is also through digitally, it's really important. And, as you are seeing because you also are on social media, you know, how this thing works. So it's really important through the storytelling to reach also that kind of consumer, especially the younger consumer and the younger generations I think it's really important to use all the technology available to us. And even you guys came up with the three d map, which I saw it was going on on social media, and I think it's so helpful to understand the region because our generation and the younger one, we're so visual and you guys have nice drone shots of the Montalcino. And I think it's something that once we see it and have it access to it, it's gonna give the curiosity for a younger consumers to try these lines because if we have the right information available and the right digital presence, my personal opinion, it's what is gonna make you interact with the younger generation. But do you have any other strategies to attract younger consumers like events or combine it with music and food festivals, something like that? Yes. Of course. We are walking across different actions through, of course, digital, but also, so it means, yeah, let's say online and offline because one of the next goal is to, of course, meet younger audiences through storytelling, education, and experiences, events like Red Montalcino that are, you know, the event who's dedicated to the Roso di Montachino is really important to reach this young audience and to engage with them and to make them more involved also with the Roso di Montachino because those could be the potential new consumers for the Bruno. And Red Montalcino is the event dedicated to the Rosa. The location is in in the fortress of Montalcino. It's younger, more dynamic, and highlights the contemporary side of the region. But at the same time, we organize also some press activities, so activities a little bit more, you know, for bringing some more insights for the Rosody Montelcino. This year, we did really amazing master class with Sarah Heller, m w, that you know. And, speaking about the contemporary style of the Roso, and we did a a flight of, yeah, ten wines, yeah, ten Roso de Montalcino across different vintages and different producers, and it was nice to, you know, how the wines were showcased through identity, the stylistic choices of the producers, and how the wines were, you know, communicated also in a different ways, not too technical, but also keeping, of course, an eye through their history and their style of the producers. And I think it's great because you need to combine also the history, and I think that's what attracts a lot of consumers to classic region. And it's also a lot of traveling And we all know Italy. It's a big destination for Canadians from people from the United States. For the younger generation, I think they like to travel a lot to Italy and events such as, especially Redmont Altino. If they would know about it, I think they would be very interested to attend, especially while visiting and doing other activities. And also I saw recently on social media you were doing also events with, a group of so many years from here from Canada. So, do you think also in the future you might do some events internationally or just locally? I was gonna say that, yeah, it's really important to work also on international events. We did a beautiful event in, New York on February this year. And we would love to work also on something like that on the next year. And also, you know, priority markets, as I mentioned, are US, Canada, UK. And, of course, we wanna always bring something new also in terms of event formats and bringing also some kind of mix between, walk around tastings and, like, informal launch, or something that you can do kind of networking. You don't need necessarily, you know, to be focused in just to one format, but I would say that right now, the events, you know, have to combine a little bit of everything. So it's really important to have a a deep experience also in the wines of Montel Sheena. So that's why it's really important to give a some sort of a highlight of everything. And the different formats can be helpful for achieving that. Yes. I think, nowadays, we need to be creative, and we need to create events where the consumers feel comfortable to attend. It's not a snobby activity, and people feel welcome, and they can easily understand about wines. And for my last part, because I know you're a busy, very busy wine professional. I'm not gonna keep you much longer. I just have a question for a tourist that, and wine lover, wine gigs that are gonna travel to Tuscany and to Montecino this summer, telling me five your your favorite activities to do around the town? Wow. Only five. That's a that's a really hard question. Well, I I will try to be synthetic. So five things, I would say that as first Of course, you need to taste brunello while you are in Montelino. And I think, the experience becomes even more beautiful when you taste the brunello in a really historical cellar or in a vineyard. I would say second one, I would suggest why you are in Montecino to have a walk in the fortress along the walls of the fortress and take the opportunity to do that at the sunset because it's gonna be beautiful, the view from there. Third one, I would say, to discover the local cuisine of Montalcino, my favorite dish is pinchy. Pinchy, it's, kind of pasta. Looks like spaghetti, but a thicker handmade, of course, with, pinchey, with pecorino and pepper. My favorite one. And and next, fourth one, I would say to go in Casanova Delabate and visit the Abbey of Santantimo. It's a a beautiful beautiful Abby. And from there, you can enjoy the view also of the vignas and Castel Noble Delabate. Last but not least, you can knock the door of the consortia office and come to say hello to me. And to share a nice glass of brunellis together. That sounds amazing. I I actually got hungry just listening and remembering how delicious the pinch he is. Just wanted to thank you for your time for today for answering some of the questions. I know We don't have time to answer all of the questions, but, yeah, it gives us a oversight of the Montalcino region, the wines. And, yes, I wish you good luck. Keep doing these amazing events, and not just, locally, but internationally, and, hope to see you soon and, grazie Milley. Thank you so much. Mihai. It's such a great pleasure to be here, and, hope to see you soon in Montelcino. Thank you. Thank you, and have a great weekend and afternoon. Okay. And let me step in here. Thank you, Mihai again, for inviting Karlota and for having such a great interview and such great questions. As I already mentioned before, Karlotta, she is a very inspiring person. And I listened to her some of her master classes during Venetli, and she is a great presenter. I wanna say that again. And the conversation was really interesting to listen. And I have a question for Carlos as well. Could you please tell us so you already mentioned some of them events that were already held in North America. And till the end of this year, are you planning participating in any other upcoming events? When and where? Thank you, Rosa. Thanks so much for your kind words. And, yes, right now, we are currently working on the next Benvenuto Brunelo, which will take place in Montelcino. But Bernuto Brunello is our legacy event. I would say a preview of the new vintage. We will present the twenty twenty one vintage Brunello de Montelcino, and is an event comprises, two parts. One is strictly for selected press, and, other two days are dedicated for trade and also consumers can attend through the purchase of tickets. Trade can basically attend through registration form, and we'll be held in Montecuccino from November twentieth, to the twenty fourth November. So it's gonna be, full four days of, you know, tastings for the press. So it's gonna be a seated tastings with no producers for the first two days. And the other days are with walk around tasting formats where the producers attend and the trade can, you know, interact and engage with the producers. So it's an amazing event for Montalcino. I would recommend it to attend to whether you are formally a wine lover, wine journalists. It's really a great opportunity to be there and to, you know, to have a a first sip of the preview of the new vintage twenty twenty one Bruno. Okay. And any upcoming events internationally? Like you already mentioned North America, any events in Asia maybe? We are working for some events in Asia, not for this year, but we are working to plan something for the next year in Asia. What will be next, by the end of this of this year is the academia Bruno, but it's an incoming project, actually. It's one of the flagship programs for training and educational program. Bringing sommeliers and buyers from the round the world to Montalcino. This year, we're gonna host a group of Canadians and Americans, both the sommeliers and, also some of them from retail sectors as well. It's a great opportunity to understand the regions. It's a full five days deep of discovering the regions and, you know, through seminars and visits to the wineries. It's a great opportunity to have a highlight of Montalcino and to discover the wines of the region. That sounds great. And is there an application process to participate in that event or the consortium itself sends the invitations to the professionals? It's both. Of course, it could be through a free applications that anyone can send and, it's just about a letter of reference and, CV presentation, but also we are working also through invitation that we, you know, select carefully the people that we think that we that they could be the future ambassadors of the regions. But we are always, we are more than welcome to receive applications because it's really important also for us to expand our network beyond our connections. Alright. Thank you. Thank you for answering my questions to you. And sorry, ma, mihai, that they stepped in with my questions too. And it's almost time for us to wrap it up. So I wanted to thank you again, behind Karlotta for a very interesting conversation and also for your time because both of you, you're very busy, but this conversation was totally worth it, I think. And for our listeners, for those of you who are interested to participate, you can just send us the direct message through our Instagram, or you can send us an email at info at Italianwine podcast dot com. So it's time to wrap up. Thank you again, guys. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you, Rosa. Thank you. Bye bye. Bye. Bye. Have a nice day. Listen to the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your podcasts. We're on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, email ifm, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show. If you enjoy listening, please is considered donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. Until next time.