Ep. 964 Ellen Jakobsmeier Interviews Chiara Innocenti | Clubhouse Ambassador's Corner

Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. This episode is brought to you by Vinitally International Academy, announcing the twenty fourth of our Italian wine Ambassador courses to be held in London, Austria, and Hong Kong. From the twenty seventh to the twenty ninth of July. Are you up for the challenge of this demanding course? Do you want to be the next Italian wine Ambassador? Learn more and apply now at viniti international dot com. Welcome to this special Italian wine podcast broadcast. This episode is a recording off clubhouse, the popular drop in audio chat. This clubhouse session was taken from the wine business club and Italian wine club. Listen in as wine lovers and experts alike engage in some great conversation on a range of topics in wine. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. And remember to subscribe and rate our show wherever you tune in. Hello. My name is Stevie Kim, and this is, of course, the Italian wine club on Clubhouse. Did you guys know that this Ambassador Corner series is one of the most popular episodes listened to it on Italian wine podcast? Cause it does get replayed. So, Ellen, you'll it's it sounds shocking because, like, last month, May. I just went through the stats. We had more than, like, three hundred and twenty thousand listens just on SoundCloud. It's it's absolutely mind boggling because we we we started with twenty two, twenty three thousand listens the entire EV of two thousand seventeen. So it's come out really long way, and it's awesome. Thanks to you guys because I I was like in the beginning, you know. Because Monty, as you know, Monty used to do it for, like, fifteen minute interviews. Because we thought people would just get really bored really quickly. And then we said it's such a shame. The ambassadors do as such an excellent job and they dedicate time and energy into this. So We said, why don't we replayed on the podcast? And some of them are really incredibly popular like Jill and, also Cynthia's episode. It got more than six thousand listens. And a lot of you actually also, fermented boss, actually you yours with Adiana Okeypinty, that that's one of the popular ones as well. So really appreciate the love and the, the dedication and the commitment from the Italian wine Ambassador community. So I just wanted to thank you all for that. Now on to the show, today, we have my travel buddy, Ellen, Ellen, and I I'm gonna, butcher your name again. Jacob Maiza. Maya. Jacob's Maya. We could we could say Jacob's Maya. Jacob's Maya. Or Jakob's Maya. Jakob's Maya. What's the deal with that? Where is that coming from? Your last name? So it's a German last name. Oh, he said that. Let's wait for another travel adventure student. So, Ellen is from Canada, from Toronto, and, but now she's in sunset, as she's just said. She's working with another ambassador friend of ours, Fannie, Sezania Fannie, genuine wines. And I guess you can tell us a little bit about that afterwards. She started traveling and now, and then made some wine, mclaren Vail, and then Marlboro. What kind of wine did you make? I guess, like mostly sovignon blanc and, you know? So much sovignon blanc in New Zealand, and the irony is ten years later. I now live in I know. But different. Right? Absolutely. San Sarah's conversation for another day, but definitely nothing. We have a with the one. Well, we'll meet a lot of other day conversations. So, of course, you know, I know Ellen because she's from our, via community. She came with us and, to Sardinia. Oh my god. That was so, so much fun. And we were you were doing the recap of, like, the second or the third day. And, of course, you fell off a chair because we had this, like, a little with, like, a setting outside of this, very, very law in in the middle of nowhere, like bum fuck, Sardinia. Yeah. And so we took a chip, put it on little grass, patch of grass. And of course, you fell over. I was laughing so hard, and then I fell over. And, no one got that on on tape luckily, but you guys should check that out. It's one of the Sard Jutas Skolastica series from Sard. If you go on the mama jumbo shrimp channel on YouTube, you can, have a look. It we had a wonderful, wonderful time. So, I still remember that those were that was one of my, most memorable, moment of the entire trip. So now it says here that you're enrolled in diploma program. When did you do that? W sent? Yeah. I've been enrolled for a long time, CV. I'm one of those That's gonna be like me. It's gonna be us. I I started, like, a couple couple of summers ago, but then, of course, you know, I did two exams. I mean Life happens, and I decided to see my masters in wine business in Dijo instead of a burgundy school business in that way. But you finished that. Right? I did. I am congratulations. My masters. Yeah. And because of COVID, my graduation was delayed. So, anyways, just had that last year. Okay. Congratulations. So listen, that's on to the show. Your guest is Karina Chanti from Tunia. Why did you choose uh-uh Kiara as your producer to be interviewed today? So Kiara Inochati, and her business partner, is the winemaker, Franchesca De Benadetto. So I really love, very strong, women who work in wine business, yourself included, and, they own in Rantunya. So they serve this minimal intervention, organic wine area. So About fifteen years ago. It's at the bottom of the medieval village of Chiwetella in Valdiciana. So it's kind of in the middle of nowhere. A lot of rural fields, a lot of fruit trees, a lot of grassy fields. It's still rather rustic, rather agricultural. But those who know me now, I'm obsessed with skin contact and orange wines. And I really admire what they do. They work with the native grapes, and they work with finding new ways of making these wines interesting. They're sparkling, they're macerations. And of course, they're classic San Giovanni. How did you meet, Kiada? Where when where and how did you meet her? Oh, it was fanny, of course. So, Fannie. Yes. She brought me to It's the Fannie mafia. A Fannie Italian mafia. Yeah. So she brought me to a VIN natural wine fair, Vigna Davin Aioli in Paris. And, I saw Julia, of course, Julia Armani, who's the owner of Danavolo, another very famous skin maceration, orange winemaker, and he's a long term winemaker from LaSopha. And they're like, you have to meet Kiara. Is he still the white naked for La Stopa? Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. So you know, It says fortieth vintage journal, forty years. Oh, it's crazy. Wow. They make great wines. Everyone loves their wines. So listen, you know, the whole spiel here is that we have to talk about learning objectives because it does try to bring some educational value. So what are the learning objectives from today. Really wanna talk about making, basically, wines and a minimal intervention VINature style in a variety of styles. So we're talking about sparkling. Skin maceration. We're talking about still. We're also talking about kind of the winemaking world of Chiwetala in Valda. I don't think many people are very familiar about it. So, yeah, that's kind of the objectives in a high level for today. Okay. Great. So listen. Ellen, I'm going to leave the mic with you and shut up, which is it rarely happens as you know. So I will mute myself and then come perhaps come back if there's any time for a q and a. Okay? Chao. I was gonna, do a little introduction, and, then we'll start the questions for you today. So Tumia winery, is a partnership between two women. So as I mentioned earlier, the winemaker, Franchesca De Benetetto, and the estate manager, Kiara, who is joining us today. Kiara is the brain of the business in the sense that she has an economic degree and she's in charge of the commercial side. Before Kiera threw her body and soul and brain into this venture, she used to work in Milan in the banking world. She was a banker. So leaving the banking business and the corporate world She really represented a dream come true. She gave up everything to go and live in the countryside. And she admits that actually her work has not changed too much. She spends hours in front of the computer trying to get the figures to work out. Telephone's ringing. I'm calling her. It's, of course, calculating the numbers and the planning for vintages, but she firms there's nothing really quite as rewarding as, of course, committing yourself to the production of your own wines and your own product. So let's begin here. Thank you so much for agreeing to joining me today and to speak with me. I'm I'm really happy to have you here. So I'll start off with, kind of your first question and let's talk about, you know, you were a banking woman in Milan. So why did you leave the big city? You and in Franchesca to move to Tuscany. And why Chiwetella Okay. We have to say that, me and Franchesca meet twenty five years ago, in Pisa, and then for about, ten years after our degrees, start to work in, different region because I was in Milan, and Francesca was in Sardinia. After ten years, we decided to do something by ourselves. So we don't we didn't know we didn't want to work for others anymore. And so we decide to come back in Tuscany, where our family leave, and, we start searching for, a vineyard. For a lot of people, this is quite a dream, but I have to say that is less romantic that, then it could, it it could look. Because, as you said, I spend a lot of my time in the in front of the computer in order to make the business go on in some way. But, we just Tuscany, first of all, because, we want to be near to our family, and, because Tuscany is quite an icon of the wine in, in Italy. The problem is that in Tuscany, there is not, vineyard's big enough to make a real business, but, we were lucky because, when we we were searching, for this vineyard, the Florence University decided to sell a big properties about three hundred hectares of, a big firm and we decided to build a part of this big farm, more or less fifteen hectares of vineyard and about, five hundred olive trees. So in this way, Tonya starts. Now what's the history of that planting? I understood that there were some nuns involved because the Yeah. Because, before Florence University, the property of this, very big pharma was, of the, some rich nuns from Florence. But, also in the past, this was a productive farm. So they produce, wine, olive oil, corn, and everything, work at in this farm before with the NAM and after with Florence University. And now with you, and Francesca. Yeah. So how did you come up with the name Tumya for your estate? It's a really pretty name. It just rolls off your tongue. Tumya. Tunya. Okay. First of all, Tunya is an etruscan name. Then we have to say that arezzo and Chibetella in Valdiana, are etruscan territories. The transcript. I think that everything everyone knows the transcript. They are, people who live in the in the central Italy before the Romans. We have to say also that me and Franchesca wasn't born in this territory. So we decided to thank the territory that welcome us choosing an etruscan name because Tanya is the name of the most important, god for the etrascon. The god that was, that they could care to the fluid ripening. Very important business, very important guys. Yeah. Very important work. Okay. So the vineyard is planted currently. With San Giovanni, Cabernet Sabernet Sabiano, Vermentino. Can you tell me a bit more about the vines? Okay. So I have to say that, when we bought the the vineyards, all the plants was planted. The younger vineyard is the one of, because it was planted at the beginning of two thousand. These of Cabernet Souvignon is a very technical planting because they studied very well the soil and choose two specific clone, clones of Cabernet relay in in relationship with the the kind of soil that we have in that part of the vineyard. And these, clones are the I have the characteristic that have a very, very small production, but very big quality. Then we have, a big part of San Giovanni, that is the most popular, grape in Duscany, and the the vineyard of San Giovanni, was planted in the in nineteen seventy. So he's quite hold the vineyard. And, in this part of the vineyard, we have not only sangiovese, but the Kianti mix. So, sangioese, Coloradoino, Canayolo and Trebiano. Then we have a very big part that is unusual, not not usual, for Tuscany because Tuscany is a land of red wines, and so they used to plant, especially, red grape. But we are a big part of the vineyard in which we have only. In fact, people who live in the town, when we started with Tanya, everyone comes came with to to tell us that we have to replace the tripiano with but we were terminated to have also white wines, and so we preserve Trebiano. And, the only thing that we did was to replace only half an actor of Trebiano. With Vermentino, because Franchesca, before working in Tunia, worked in, winery, in Sardinia, and they know Vermentino very well. During our work in, the first year in this vineyard, we understand that, the district piano was a treasure for us because a big part of district piano was a special kind of Trebiano that's, in the area. It's called pink Trebiano, Trbiano Rosa. Yes. Because when it is perfect mature, the skin of the grape is pink. And this, wonderful variety of, tribunal. Because, the the skin is very stronger. And so it work very well if you want to dry it. And because it has very, very big aromas more than the normal Tuscano, Trebiano Tuscano. The problem for this tripiano is that, has a very, very low production. So we are the only one in the area that preserve this kind of tripiano because the others who had makers replace it with the normal trubiano Tuscano that gives more, more great. It's so beautiful in harvest. I remember seeing it. It's really a gorgeous, like, fluffy cotton candy pink. Slowly. Yeah. Yeah. Is it part of, pinot grigio? So it would have been then kept by the nuns, I imagine, for making Vincent. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because, it work of a a very well when you drive. So it's perfect for a Vinsanto. And then also good for skin contact for the one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they produce the Vinsanto. Yeah. And they know about it. Maybe been sent on the original skin contact, orange one. So speaking about the area, I don't know, like, in terms of visiting you, I had never really known about Chibitella before. Okay? Your wines are organic certified. Is your climate suitable for growing organically for yes. Yes. We studied this for one year before, asking for the, identification, organic certification because, we want to be sure that it could be possible to have organic agriculture there. The answer is yes, because the soil is a very dry So, and so also when we have a lot of rain, we never have the, what, the water that stay on the ground. And then because the climate of the weather is, is very windy. And so it is a perfect to prevent, plant disease. Perfect conditions. Okay. Yeah. So is that, well, I guess not why, but why make minimal intervention wines we can call them natural wines. Okay. I have to, say that the when we started with Tunia, we don't know anything about the movement or of natural winemaker. So we decided to have a wine with, no chemicals only because we used it to buy, organic vegetable because we used to heat organic food. And so for us, it was, normal, to, make our wines without the intervention without chemicals. And then the second, reason is that, not the security. The the result of this is that we have, wine that comes only from what we find in our vineyards. Understood. Yep. Okay. No no additions into what you're making. What comes out of the soil is what you work with. Yes. Okay. So for some of the wine styles that you make, as I mentioned earlier, I'm a real lover of skin contact maceration, and your Kiaro fiore is one of my all time favorites. The current release is twenty sixteen. So how did you come up with this idea of making macerated skin contacts, orange wines? What grapes are using for this one? Okay. Yeah. First of all, we we have to say that, in Tuscany, that is not a region of white wine. Our grandfathers, when they make white wine, they use to have a skin contact. So different additional white wine in Tuscany was the immaceration immacerated one. Then, when we start working with Tanya, we decided to have natural wine. And so, we need to preserve the wine, without chemicals. So we need to use the skin of the grape that are rich in this, preservative substance. Also during the verification of white wine. And so because we we use to to have skin contact also for white wine. And then, we understood that our Serbiano Rosa was wonderful when, during the maturation because, with, that big aromas that, districtiano has gives a lot of flavor to the, to the wine. And so we decide to have this maturation. The grape that we use, are absolutely piano and, also, Vermentino. Italian wine podcast brought to you by mama jumbo shrimp. And the concept of the harvest is really unique that I haven't seen in many, orange wines before skin contact wines. You make more than the passages? Yes, is the result of some years of, pest. Because we started with Curfiore at the beginning in our first harvest in two thousand and nine. But in two thousand and nine, we use only, Trebiano and Vermentino with a big maturation. The wine was good, but for us, it was too heavy to drink. We understand that we need some team that could, make the wine, lighter. And so the near the the the next year in two thousand and ten, we decided to add the, little percentage of Trebiano that we picked early. So at the end of August, when it wasn't perfect, material. So in two thousand ten, Carrofiore was made by a part of this air seed tribunal. A part of Trebiano with maturation, and a part, with the Vermentino with maturation. Then in two thousand and, you know, in twenty ten, so we have a better wine, but it wasn't perfect for us. And so be because we think that, it was a little bit poor in, Ramos. And so for two thousand and eleven, We decided to add a part of Trebiano, dried on the plant. So we pick a part of Trebiano in, at the end of October. We leave it drying on the plant. So in two thousand eleven, was made by a part of Asit Trebiano, a part of Verintino with maturation, a part with Trebiano, with maturation, and a part of Trebiano, dragged on the client. And this is, care of yours that we could find more or less in this moment. It's a very complex, recipe for the blend, but it's very impressive the results you get out of it. It's all fermented an agent stainless steel, I believe. Yeah. Yeah. Only a steel tank. Yeah. Because these four different, parts of we we've unified this part of this four part in, February three, in, in a steel tank. And then we have the blend only before bottling. Got it. So only steel tank and bottle. Got it. Current vintage twenty sixteen. Okay. You also make a sparkling wine that I love that's also really amber in color. Sotofundo. Sotofundo is, a little unique in terms of the priest mousse to make the bubbles happen. Can you tell me a bit more about it? Yes. We have a sparkling wine. We start with this wine a little bit later, not at the beginning. Some here's, after the beginning. And also for this, we have some tests before. But at the moment, we are very, very proud of the Sotto Fundo. And, it is, sparkling wine from a class medical method, traditional method. So, like champagne, like, so with a double fermentation. The first fermentation is the fermentation of, base of, as in the tribunal, that is the base for all the sparkling wines, at which we had a little bit of, tribunal with maceration. We have a normal, a verification for this part until it becomes wine. Then during the harvest, we pick a part of Trebiano, and we let it dry in the cellar in little cassettes. And in February, Mars, we press heat. And we add the joists at the first base. Everything goes in the bottle. We, we we cover the bottle with the chrome cap, and we wait and we wait. Because, the the doing of diet grape is very rich in sugar and inists. And so it start the fermentation in the bottle. We, don't have the the the the discouragement. Mhmm. Okay. Because we think that, even if the hiss are dead, they could help us during the hedging of the wine. So because of this part of maturation in the first base, and because of we use the the the the joys of drieroth grape for the second fermentation, the color of so to fondo is, so orange. So dark. So amber. Yeah. It's such a tough color. But the length of the the flavor on your tongue when you drink it is incredible. It's it's really, really special sparkling. And the pressure of the sparkling is quite light compared to a traditional champagne in that concept. It's a little bit less, less, less high pressure. We when we think about we think about, we thought about Sanjobe is in Sotto Fundo. We thought about a wine that could, compare with food and not only about the sparkling wine for aperitif or something like this. That's why we use a little percentage of, Trebiano with maturation also in this wine. In order to have a more structure, in order to match this wine. What's a wheat food? Oh, it's super, super interesting. And it's always vintage dated too. That's great. One of the things that I I really was impressed about your estate was the Old Sandra Vasing. And it's a very unique for me in terms of the, the elasticity of this in particular. Can you tell me more about the Sandra Vazier that you have planted? And, specifically, the name, for the name of the San Luis and Casobio is our first wine. We started to make Casobio in two thousand and eight. Wantunio wasn't ours yet. Because the previous owner give us, some grapes in order to have a test. As I said, the the vineyard of of San Jose, is not only San Giovanni. It's San Giovanni and Trebiano, because it is, the mix of, Chianti grape. The mix that, made baron Rico, in, eighteen seventy two or less. When they when he, he he may imagine it, they thought about the perfect wine. We choose not to use, white grape, for make all the wines. And so we use white grape only for white wines. But now, we we hope to replace some dead plants with the other plants of, Trebiano, in order also to have Trebiano, in Chasabuyo. Then we have to say that So when cas when the vineyard of Casablillo was planted, they don't they didn't care about the clones. And so they use some plans that came from, the other vineyard in the area. So in that vineyard, we have, I think, not less than, twenty. Kind of different sangiovese. Wow. This is yeah. This is, we call it muscle selection, I think, in English. Okay. And this is something that make the wine very, very rich because every kind of sangiovese gives some flavor, some smells, and one. In different right pieces of your sangiovese at the same time. No. Because, they they was very intelligent. And so they use, kind of wave that have a similar time of the motivation, also because in the, method, of unification of county. They used to pick all the kind of grapes together in the same moment. So they needed that they was, arrive in the same time, more or less. Very interesting. So we have no no no problem of motivation. And, so we are, very active about this, San Jose, this Clanti. We call it Canti, but, really, in Tunia, we don't use appalachian, no appalachian for our wines. So for us, this is a red wine, Vinoroso. Even if Chivita Limvaldicana is in Chanti area. Yeah. Yeah. And Casobuio, the name comes from the name of the little river that is, a border of our vineyard. Is the only name that we give to the wines that have a real, meaning because the other names are fantasy name. That's right. I wanted to just, talk to you a little bit about the power that these old groups have. Even if they are have a bit of age, then they have incredible structure and tenant. Your aging that you do for the wine in the tanks, Yes. For the red, our red wine, also for, we used to have a verification and aging for half part of the grape in a steel tank. And, half part of the grape in big wood tanks. So we have first fermentation, half and half, then, aging, half and half. And then the two parts, goes together only at the moment of, bottling. For this wine, we need a very long aging. You have to think that now we are on the market with the two thousand and thirteen, because otherwise, San Jose is a, something problematic amount because, San Jose, they really are for San Jose. Yeah. Very powerful. It's a very, very strong tendons, a very, very big acidity. And when it is younger, they tendons acidity fight on your mouth and is impossible to drink. So we have to wait. We understand for our wines, for our San Jose that the important is the aging in the bottle. So these wines stay two or maximum free years in the cellar, and then ten years in the bottle. Oh, so you're really doing a favor then for your consumers. They're drinking an aged Sanjuvese, technically an aged chianti already with a good amount of time. That's so special. Really, really delicious. Now you spoke about your wines being made for food pairings and how you do them with intention of something to eat. What are we eating with your wines? What is the regional cuisine or other maybe interesting pairings you can think of Okay. It's not simple because, Tuscany cuisine is quite big, but iPhone pink, for example, for red wines, we can have pastime with, for example, Docs that is a typical in the land of, arezzo or game or Hoefer. Something like this. Is that for orange wines, we're absolutely cheese, than vegetable dishes. They're also dishes based on a liver that are very used in, I think, all the Tuscany. I think the pairing I remember the most Kira is when you took me to that restaurant on top of the medieval village of the the Val de Keana in Chivatala, and I had the best burger of my life. It was made from the local cow Yeah. The Keanina cow. It was incredible. Yeah. Because, Valticiana is the land of, canina, and this is is incredible. Yeah. With your social experience, it was amazing. Yeah. You spoke about future projects that you have planned maybe for doing some replantation. You also recently added a contrapunto couve into the mix. What are some of the the plans you have maybe coming up for future projects? I I wear, we need the obsolete to increase the number of plants of the white grape, especially in Tribiano. We start, sir, and we have to go on with this project because we have a very, very big problem. With the wild animal because, they enter into the vineyard and they hit the little plant that we are planted. And so every year, we plant five thousand plan, and they hit two thousand. And so every year Yeah. This is a big problem also because, the low doesn't allow us to put a very, very high fence, but also, small fence. And so we take away the I don't know the name there, while the pig the wild boar. Okay. But we can't do nothing with, and they hit, more the the little plants than the great. And so we have this big problem because our vineyard are quite old. And so a lot of plants are dyed. And, for this reason, we we need to replace some of them, but we we can't. We try, but, it's a very difficult war with them. We would like to reach, I think, thirty thousand bottle. So increase a little bit our product at the moment, we are around twenty five thousand bottles, but we don't want to, increase more than than thirty thirty thousand bottle because, we want to have the controller. We want to keep, on having control on the production. And, we can't increase the number of bottle because we are only two. And so we don't we can't have the verification of more than thought bottle. How how many people are on your team during harvest? Very a very small number of people, not more than, six, seven people. Because, we every day, we don't pick a lot of, grape. We have only one, one tractor of the grape. And then we go to the cellar. And immediately, we have the unification. And we need that people understand the the kind of grape that they have to pick. Because, we make a big choice during the harvest. We take, with us only the perfect grape. And so, we call to the harvest for the harvest. Only people that worked with us since some, some years. This is because when you decide to work in a natural way, and so you decide not to add chemicals. And so not to adjust the wine. In a second moment, you need perfect grape. It's the only way to have a good natural wine. Good grapes to make grape wine, of course. Yeah. How long does your harvest last? Just one last question. This is a very difficult question because usually, for us, it's a very long harvest. We because we start in August, with the first part of Trebiano, and we end in November, at the end of October with the the, over mathieu Redbiano. Last year, with this climate that is, probably crazy at the moment. All the harvest finished before the end of September. So a very short harvest. We work every day. We was destroyed. But we don't know if, the the rhythm will be this one next in September or we come back to the normal rhythm. We don't know. Oh, crazy. Our normal harvest are very long. Yeah. I think you made the award for some of the longest harvests I've heard of in, in Europe. I haven't had a harvest that long since Australia, even from when I was in Canada doing wine making. Thank you so much for everything. Thank you. Thank you. The discussion with you is always a pleasure to learn more about your little area and the the really secret. I don't know, special zone of Chibasada. Thank you. Thank you for, invite invite me to this conversation. It was really great. C b did you have anything else to add to the chat today? Okay. Very good. Thank you so much for both of you for this, lovely discussions. I'm going to bring on, like, enjoy. Joy actually has COVID today. Hey, Joy. Joy, are you alive? Joy has COVID. Hey, Joy. She went home sick yesterday. And then she just oh, my god. You sound really terrible. It's okay. It's all good. I'm listening. Sorry. Are are are are you okay? I'm good. Yep. You're not that convincing, but okay. I'm gonna let you go. So, Joyce, I just wanted to give a shout out to Joy, who's our, of course, our Italian wine podcast producer who's been doing a wonderful job. And What about you, like, like, are you on? Hello, like, Everybody has COVID's TV. I think she's on a train or something. Listen, I I I was a little bit annoying. Everyone is sleeping. No. No. No. Not at all. I think listen. Joy actually never shuts up, so it's only because she's very, very, very sick. You know? And, like, I don't know, what's going on, like, But, Keanna, listen, for person, like, who is unfamiliar with your wine, what are, like, the in terms of, tasting profiles? What are the what are the things that they should look for in in your particular wines? Is there any, like, what is your signature whine for your for first of all? Okay. Probably some years ago, I had said the But now, is, is taking a good way. So probably, we can say the orange wine because, they say that they are orange wine that are that only tuna makes this kind of orange wine. It's a sort of, I say it in Italy. They recognize, always, also, when they have, a blind taste that's, about what kind what wine they are tasting and so how how many labels do you have? So we have these two orange wine, then we have clear red wine, one the other one is the one from Cabernet sauvignon, one hundred percent that is come tomorrow. And then there is another red, that is a blend between, San Giovanni, and Cabernet sauvignon, is the new entry, because we have it, since two thousand and, eighteen, and, is, red, a little bit easier to drink, light, and, we do not so big, aging. It's something that could be drink during the summer that you could refrigerate, and something like this. And then we have ears with wine. A, a sort of, Vincent. From and what is that? Can you give us a little bit of an idea in terms of your volume of production. How many bottles do you produce? In total? Yes. In total. Twenty five thousand bottles, not more. Even if we have fifteen hectares of, we have. So we have a very, very small production. We have, thirty, quintale. I don't know, three hundred kilos of, grapes per hectare. Is a very, very low production because the vineyard was a holder. And because, also, the new one, the Caberne, the vineyard of Caberne, is a specific clone with a very low product low production. And so we have twenty five bottles with the fifteen actors. When in a modern system of planting, you could have with, seven actors, probably. And and your wine is, I mean, would you class for your wine as a a natural wine? No. Could you repeat, please? Would you consider your wine, production to be natural? Like, are your wines natural wines? Yeah. Absolutely natural wine because we don't add nothing to the wine. Only if it is necessary, a little bit of sulfates, but only if it is necessary, we are, learning to do these wines. And every we are, we, decrease the quantity of sulfites. And, at the moment, we have, four wines on six without suffice at all. So how, when how does the, the winery visits work? Do they call in advance? How can they Yeah. Come and visit the winery? That's my question. Okay. We don't use to make a lot of, wanna revisit or wine testing. And so we are not open every day because we are only two, and we have not enough energy to make everything. So I ask everyone to call me before, before it comes. Before come and, then take, take an appointment, and we were there. We will be very, very happy to have you and everyone in the cellar. But only with an appointment because, often we are not, in the testing room. We are in the vineyard. We are in the cellar. And so, sometimes, happen that someone call me, and they say, Oh, I'm here. I would like to taste your wine. So this is a problem because I'm in Parma because I have every wine fair, and no one is there. And so after everyone, they have to call me before. And how many people work in your winery? Like, there's yourself and then, who who else? How many other people work in the company? We have normally me and Francesca that are in charge of, all the, administrative, commercial marketing for me and Francesca for the production. So the vineyard and the seller then, we have, free, man that help us in the work in the vineyard and on the tractor. So in total, we are five. During, I have asked a little bit more. Right. So it's a very skinny, skinny staff. And, you're a small company so people need to call you in advance to make appointments. Yeah. Yeah. So how how would they how would How would they get in touch with your Kiara? There is a website. There is a Can you repeat to us your website? W w w, Tunia? Dot dot edi. Okay. Tanya dot edi. And there are all these information available on the website. Great. Well, listen. I've seen on Facebook, the page, Tanya Wines, or the page of my personal page. Great. Thank you so much. And this I love the ambassador's corner because I get a chance to meet and listen. To, producers with whom I've never met. So I very much looking I look forward to texting your wine sometime in the near future with Ellen and, Fannie and yourself. And hopefully get a chance to visit sometime. Thank you so much, Gada, and chow at it. C v. Chowoke. I'm chow everybody. Thank you. Okay. So I'm going to close-up the room. Alright? Thanks for listening to this episode of Italian wine podcast brought to you by Vineetli Academy, home of the gold standard of Italian wine education. Do you want to be the next ambassador? Apply online at benetri international dot com for courses in London, Austria, and Hong Kong, the twenty seventh to the twenty ninth of July. Remember to subscribe and like Italian wine podcast and catch us on sound flat, Spotify, and wherever you get your pods. You can also find our entire back catalog of episodes at Italian wine podcast dot com. Hi, guys. I'm Joy LIVings Denon. I am the producer of the Italian wine podcast. Thank you for listening. 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