Ep. 750 Chilean Wine Market | Clubhouse Wine Business Club

Welcome to this special Italian wine podcast broadcast. This episode is a recording off Clubhouse, the popular drop in audio chat. This clubhouse session was taken from the wine business club and Italian wine club. Listen in as wine lovers and experts alike engage in some great conversation on a range of topics in wine. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. And remember to subscribe and rate our show wherever you tune in. Hello everybody. Chara Gatsy. Welcome to wine business club on Clubhouse. This will be about Chile. Chile wine market. It is a little different. From our usually Italian wine club, by the way, if you like to give us a follow, you see that little greenhouse up there. There's a greenhouse Avatar. You can click that and join the group. Otherwise, you can also go on my profile and In the bottom left hand corner, there are two clubs Italian wine and wine business. So welcome to wine business. This is where we'll be talking about mostly the international market, how to promote your wine better. And today, we have of course, our very own Jose Pablo Flores. He is a intern from Bologna business school. He is our host moderator today who will be interviewing his friend I hope we can do this. So, Jose, why don't why don't you take it away and see. First of all, let's do do a small check. Gabriel. Hello, Charles, Stevia. Oh my god. Miracle. Yes. Oh, a miracle. Yes. We can actually hear you. We're live and kicking. Excellent. So I'm going to now, let Pablo take it away. I'm really happy to have the possibility of introduce Gabriel. He's a chief analogies of that for you to may not know. Me as I'm pretty sure is one of the biggest one in Chile and worldwide. So it's a really, really good, moment to have this talk. And also, I can say that Gabriel, regarding this experience, he also has some production experience, around the world in US USA in New Zealand. So I know correct, Camille. Yes. You're correct, Jose. This, was my, my, my, my first experience, was, like, many of the winemaker worldwide, working different places on the world. So now I started Chile in Chile for more than than ten years working. Jose, I'm gonna properly introduce you now because I didn't know if this was going to be a false start because we've tried connecting Gabriel before and we weren't able to do it. Now that we know, we can actually proceed with a proper clubhouse call. I would like to introduce Jose, a Jose Pablo. Sometimes I call him Carlo. He gets mad. I, Jose Pablo was born and raised in Chile. He isn't actually an industrial engineer. I don't know what you're doing, what you were thinking coming into our group. And and he actually has a previous career as a project manager in the food and beverage industry. He spent about, I guess, five years in Patagonia where everybody wants to go in Chile. And he, I guess, had a kind of a midlife crisis when he was twenty, basically. He wanted to change his career and his life. In fact, he's now currently living in Bologna. He, so he decided to enroll in this MBA program, Food and Wine Masters Program at Bologna Business School. And some of you know this already. We, have a very close relationship with Bologna Business School because many of our colleagues are coming from Bologna Business School first as interns, and some of them decide to actually day, they eventually actually leave, like Lan, as you know, Lan Luh, who's left us after five years. Now he is actually our intern from Bologna business school. So as you know, Jose, we are obsessed with learning objectives. So what are what are we what should we expect from this call with Gabriel today? Okay. As you may know, Chile, when it comes about the wine, tea as well, really will know about the, big produce producer and also by experts. But we know a little bit about the ATM Y market. So the main takeaway that we should have here is, have a deeper approach to the chilean behavior of the consumer and the production. And in order to have, an overview, another opinion on how an Italian producer may enter the Tillion market. So without saying too much more, Gabriel, maybe I would think a good way to size just to maybe you can tell us five key things to know about the Tillion white market, maybe some numbers, some overview. Yeah. Yeah. I could say, for sure, one of the most important thing that, we are a really export, country. So we are the number four export country in in in wines after Italy France, Spain. And we are the number one country from the new world. That's where the biggest export country from the new world. So, like, in a sense, we're in a export country. That's one of the key points. And, the other one is, that, we have an history in in in wine consuming and and culture, but we still drink not that matte. We we drink around thirteen liters per capita. Yeah. Here in Chile. So we're trying to increase the number, and, mainly is ninety seven percent if, steel winds and three percent sparking ones. So, we usually have three main markets in exports. Main is Brazil, China, and UK. And, internal market mainly is, is from chile and wines. That's the main key key points. Now, we're we we are here, like, in the company that I work in, that's b BSPT wine group. We're the second largest, group that export, and also we manage really well the internal market. So, that's some of the key points. Mainly in production, Also, we're strong in Cabernet sauvignon, sauvignon blanc. And, and we have a bulk and bottled wines. And our average team bottled wines in export markets in term of, FOB, the case is around twenty eight US dollar. So we can summary summarize that saying that even if we have a lot of production, even if we have consumption numbers in alcohol pretty higher. The wine consumption is the main challenge to be faced. Right? We we would like to increase the liters per capita of consumption of of the Chilean customer. Right? Yeah. Right. Not only trying to, write that, that number. Now, one of the thing that happened Chile, the people are more interested in in the wines, we have more wine schools working on. We have more sommeliers, also with the tourism and and and and and better, like, restaurant and on trade movements and the people are more interested in wines, and we are trying to increase not only the volume or the consumption, of, in in per capita. We are also trying to go further to more premium wines in in that. I have a question regarding regarding this because in my experience, and when I talk with people about Tillian wine, we say that Tillian wine, abroad is considered like quality, per value. Right? It's a good value, good quality, but not conceived or not perceived as a really premium. Why is your, your opinion about this? Because, when you mentioned education, I I this come up to my head, so maybe you can say about something about this. Yeah. Because, one of, of, of the, the, of, of the proposal of wine of Tilly and all of, the the wineries here, until he's trying to changed a little bit that, said minded about the good quality enterprise, the ones that's coming from Chile. That is not. Now we have a lot of icons wines or premium wines that are in the top, top, like, in and top in in the magazines and the ratings. We are going very high quality wines and we're trying to show that that, we are not all these cheap wines. We are making, you know, a huge quality, and we are trying to raise that price point. Then I will we are set. I think, Chile is an amazing country. We have a huge diversity. Now we are working very sustainable. And, we're showing wines, that give us now the opportunity, and we are working hard in that to express Chile and to raise that price point. We are really competitive in term of quality. We got in the location itself. Can you mention, like, the trend? Because, yeah, it is increasing, but How can you which are or what are the main institution or trends or some ideas that in your opinion are more strong? Because here, for example, we have a double set academy. So how about dealing this matter? Yeah. It's mainly the same. The WCD is one of the most strongest one. And another thing that now is soaking a lot. We have a lot of some alerts are more traders that work in wine, trying to do wine education. So, we have more this kind of, new concept that when, in the sale sales, that's all. And they they set up a special, special set that invited some clients or or people that are interested and and know more about wine. So you can find a lot of, not courses of wine. You more tasting, events. So we have the opportunity in those seven to show our wines and also show wines worldwide. So the people are getting more interested in in in terms of what is behind the wines. They're getting more experiences on on their their their their starting to love it more, start to try more different wines. Because, here in Chile, usually, the people that consume wine, consume one label, one, one, company, and they stated drinking that wine. But now it's more divers diversified and the people are exploring more. So it's more opportunities to to to to to know more about wine. Okay. That is a good news, Indian, because we already said before that the main challenge, is the low consumption of wine and chili, even if we are traditional known by wine. But now we are saying that the location in the China market is increasing. So this comes to me in the next maybe topic or question that is, like, I know in my experience that, there's an opportunity in the market for abroad once, I know that this last year have been increasing the demand of sparkling wine. So And this is the point that I want to make about the Italian wines. Maybe how can how can we find an opportunity in this increasing trend of sparkling? So in in your opinion, which are the main incentive barriers that we can find until the, as, for entering in the in the market? Yeah. Here, of course, where you have opportunities. Now, as I said, three percent of, the consumption in Chile is dis sparking. And from the last, eight, ten years, it's increasing year by year. And, Here, we have, this this, this, free, like, market. Till have a lot of, good relationship, worldwide. So, in term of, barriers to to to import wines, we don't have any. Yeah. We have some taxes, but those taxes apply, for overseas wine, and also for wines from here, from Tila. So we are at the same taxes. So here, I think the the the most difficult part that we are really far away. So in terms of transport, the shipment, you can increase more, like, in, in term of, prices of the wine. But, here mainly because we are very strong in our production, and always worry within innovations and that, I think in in in in in the massive wines is quite difficult to compete here if, with the Italian pro production. So so I think, those are the the the main difficulties that you can have. I know we we have some importance in Chile, around ten and one importer brought some, some wines from Italy. He's not strong. It's very small quantity, but mainly are in Italian restaurants, working that with the prosseco. Can I ask you the the the question of the media? You know, why would you, in your opinion, what would you suggest to imagine that you are a Italian producer and you want to enter the TD market? How would you approach this this country? Oh, now, now until you happen something really, that is important. The people have a more worldwide connections and, are more interesting in the culture of the wine. So for a start, trying to be involved or a study about, the wine industry, we need to try wines until there is a wine that we don't have or we have very small quantity of different wine from another country. So, the opportunity now is go through these WU seed set and and and and another opportunities to, show the wines and the people are searching for different wines from different places from the wall. So, now we have, the small importers that are are focusing in in wine from different parts of the con from different countries. And winemakers are like me, some earlier, and the wine community are searching, trying to to drink those wines here in Chile because, years ago, the only way, was just, go go and take a ticket and go to the different countries or another country to to find, worldwide, wines. So now, this is the opportunity that people are trying, I, are exploring more. They're wanting to know more about wines. And I think this is the, open door that, can can can have an opportunity in, in that way. I think not maybe in the massive kind of wines. I think in this special premium or more, like, terror kind of wine can go in small quantities with better prices inside this, one community. So I can make, another comment because, or maybe the questions open for you, do you think that Italian wine or maybe French wine could be potentially, a threat or maybe it could be more like a partnership in the for the China market. I mean, because ultimately, why is the main challenge of the Italian, Chile market is to increase the consumption. Right? So in this regards, maybe we can see a new actor as something very, something positive more than a threat. Yeah. I think, I don't know if if it's gonna work. We here, we have a huge company, like BSPT, another that have wineries, also in Argentina, a really strong here in Chile with many brands. So they are trying, they're, you know, doing innovations. They're putting different kind of products, trying to go further in, trying to increase the consumer here. I don't know if the partnerships can be the best way. I think, the thing that has happened now with the wine community, and this open door and the people trying to drink this, worldwide wines from other countries and searching for some other wines. This is an open door, and that the people gonna be a appreciate better the chilean wine and also appreciate, another kind of wine. And this door and the people on the culture is gonna be more educated in wine. I think that is the way that, the consumer's gonna increase in the next years. Regarding the the distribution channels, I know at least when I was living in Chile that not just the wine, I think everything re related to the beverage or food industry and maybe another kind of market. The main channel is supermarket. Right? I'm pretty sure that it's still the same in this last year. So can you tell us How is what is the main distribution channel? How is the upcoming years? How is the trend? Yeah. In Chile, mainly the consumption here in term of sales are in in in massive wines or also in in the other words, is going through the promotions and mailing supermarkets and that kind of channel. But, since two years ago, because of the COVID, this changed radically, of course, it's it's still the, like, the, and the, the, the, the, the strong channel that, but in term of of deduct, sales and, from web page and another, like, e commerce ways are increasing a lot. More than three hundred. If you compare with another, years, and it's three hundred percent more, and it's increasing, like month by month. And the people and the direct sales are getting stronger. Not that the massive and the supermarket, but, it's it's taking a, important part of the, of the commercial line. So and what about the they are getting right now because, we think sometimes that the wine is like classic, traditional, and but now I'm I'm seeing a lot of influencers and young people engaging this. So how is this working, Tilly? How how are these new trend, new? How are engaging new people or young people into the wine? This is, a really good thing that it's happened now. Because of the social media, are, a lot of people that have more touch or can see more this diversity of wine than we are showing us. So it's, it's a door that already is open and influencers or some winemakers that are influencers or some, like, small companies or wine producers have the opportunity to show through the social media, those wines are the diversity, and the people are exploring more because now they have, this, this, technology, and the people, mainly, all the people is connected to the phone and see by through Instagram or or, another social media platforms, and they're seeing, the people showing the wines, drinking the wines, different creations, and and I think the people, now with this, platform also can buy the wine through some pages or from directly from some of them like Instagram. So the people are are exploring more, are drinking more brand of wine. They are feeling more comfortable because they can find or feed better with kind of wine that maybe in the supermarket, was not easy to find. I know that the Chilean consumer, in a lot of matters is really trendy, and let's go with the flow. Like we say in Chile, the boom of the Prativo until, was not so many years ago, maybe eight years ago, started. Of course, in Italy, it has been always, the pritivo as part of the calls. This are increasing trend in in chile. This could be also open a really good opportunity in in terms of sparking, right, as a recognized strength. And I know that Italy is really is really onto this in Chile. Right? Yeah. It's incredible. Like, the people now is using more the sparkling because, like, as you say, in a parity for different situation or in terracing restaurants, mainly also in summertime or some, like, holiday times or this any of the year. The consumption sparkling is higher. Not only like a periative. It's incredible, like, in cocktails. How are they mixing some sparkings within the cocktails or So the sparkling is going through not only alone. It's only with the cocktails, and that's why the people are drinking more sparkling now in in different situation. And and this is, something that, is going on also because in this parking, have less alcohol. Some, some consumers want less alcohol level wines, and they're thinking to try those and then then the the the that works better with them. So, I think, in in terms of, the sparkling, something that, here by year is increasing, is is incredible, here like BSPT wine group. Here in Sparklin is huge in Chile. And year by year, we are almost double, year by year the production of Sparklin for the local market. How how about the price, perception or even the price itself between chili and wines and, wines from the Europe, for example? Yeah. Here, like, some sometimes happen that, when some products from, another country's, came inside the local market, you'll see, like, the price point. If you compare the quality and that at the same price point, you can get a better quality from the chilean wines. So, that's one of the thing that the people maybe having the mindset that for Havel, like, wine, a really good wine from another country in Chile, it's gonna be, like, in a high range of price. And also happen when, we, like, a winemaker, similar, we bought wine from this, like, local dealers that import wine from another country. Same quality, mainly are much more expensive, the wines from from from outside of Chile. So, in terms of price point, it's it's quite different. So I even if the number of in imports are not too much in Chile and wine market, can you tell us which is the main wines that are imported? I know that we have around, like, ten importers and and they are focusing in different kind different kind of wine. We have some important that is focused to to bring some wine from burgundy, one from bordeaux, another more focus in in Italy, Italian wines. And, and another's that, that have, like, a huge range of, like, really well known wines. So I think mainly here, you can find a wine from, Spain, Italy, and France are the main wines that you can find from from the different borders. Okay. But I think it's more focused on the whites or the sparking bill. Right? In term of in term of volume, yeah, or quality or more massive, is is the sparkly or some whites? Yes. But in term of value, it's more in in whites and reds and steel wines. You you mentioned before that there's a lot of variety in Italian wise. I believe that, Italy is the opposite of Chile in this matter because Chile is so centralized. We have, like, six more than half of the production is from three competitors. Right? One of one of them is your your winery, but Italy, but in the other hand, it's totally opposite. Some people can say that is, a good thing. Some always can say that is make everything more complicated. What is your opinion about this fragmentation of Italian wines? Oh, I like me, like a winemaker, I love diversity. So and you have, like, diversity. You you can have different kind of complexity and different kind of filling on wines. And it's a word that that that I think you can find easily what wine fit with you better. But personally, that is a thing that, that is so important. Of course, I love it diversity in those terms when you only produce only one kind of wine and trying to do that only massive way. I think, you lost some of the culture of the wine. So, so the people that is really involved in the wine industry, and the wine lovers, love to find this special spot, that diversity, and the single wines that make them special and unique. And I think, this is, it's, I think, really important, also in term of value. You you you can go further in in in in in in the value of your bottle of wine if you are unique and you have that differences you you can express that uniqueness, easily way and find, your consumer that understand you. And, of course, you can get a better profit, well known wines in in that, in that terms. I think, it's a it's a really good thing. Also in Chile, we are going in that way. We're trying to diversify our portfolio every year, we are try trying to extract, like, moral about, or we study about our history, and we are trying to put, better wines, with different varieties from different places. We have these PACE or Korea. They seem so, some also tuning blank, and, another varieties that are, like, diversify the portfolio of wine from Chile, and also are showing that the naturally, till you have, that is this diversity, these beautiful places with different influences from the coast to the Anderson Mountain range. So, so I think it's really important to have this, diversity in terms of priority and and places and also a way to do it. Okay. Thanks. To say something that I I I honestly believe that Chile wants and is trying to move to this diversity and more premium, production will find. What is the main strategy to, of Chile, to to get to this point? Because, the paradigm is like we are still considered, like, more about the quantity, more than the quality. What are the main strategy that Chile is adapting to to get rid of this label. So, now, I think we have companies that are really focused in in the premium. And, and also in the huge companies, And then then then the premium wines are getting stronger year by year. We're showing our wines better in the reviews. We are more focused on in trying to get this, like, higher price point to be more more sustainable, in term of the quality of the wines. So when, we're focusing premium we are focusing the, social media in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, during the, the, the, the worldwide trips showing us, speaking about the premium wines or the icon or the ultra premium wines or or the higher, labels that we have in, in the company. So, not only ask the simulator and the export people now it's showing through those wines, to the importers, the finite clients, and and and and others, chile through these premium wines. So this is the focus now in in that term. So one thing that is happening there, how is Gile reacting to the pandemic situation that we all kind of know. But, in your opinion, how is it still doing it? Oh, I think, we we're doing, quite good in in that term. I think, we have the opportunity then in until at the beginning already was closed, like, everywhere. But the people start to consume a lot in their houses, and they spend more money that they in the home trade, drinking more wine or more expensive wine, and they're starting to drink, like, better and eat better at home, but it is incredible that Tiller with the vaccines. And this, like, really, I think, good politics in that term mostly of the of of of the people in Tilia's already with the two vaccines. Also, with the with with that vaccine that, that, another or or extra protection. So, we're still with the with the mask. And, but, month by month, we're open more, bars on on on more areas with more people that can be in there. And the people are drinking at home very well. And also it's going to the parks and and to the restaurants. And then the people, I think, I'm going very well in that way, as a as a company like us, we are having really good sales and the pandemic is not, like, crush us, or something. I think we get some, another opportunities, and and we reach, like, or or we we put on the move. That the people are now. So as a recap, we can say that Chile is not the most. It's one of the country with more free trade agreements within the whole world. We can say that the problem is like we are really far away with the monitoring between, so there's a tipping cost about it. But the main problem, it's it's the, the consumption. So you mentioned, that we can five days, with education, but it should be in a long term, I think. So what can you say about this strategy of allocate plus trying to increase the consumption or trying to beat even the consumption of the beer on other products that I believe that they are the main competitors. Yeah. I think now, it's, quite hard because, maybe as you know, here, the beer, like, it's the higher consumption, permafal, liqueurs. So, I think, the education, is a really important, way. And now the social media is giving us a great opportunity to go further and to reach more people to be involved in the wine industry and in the wine consumption. So, the people are seeing the wines more in different allocations, not only in in in, usual propaganda, and that. So in term of the influencers that are getting more involved, And, the the people that realize it, the the good thing that the wines can give to you, not only indication in, in terms of, with a with a responsible conception in terms of, the healthy, and you can have a drinking wine. I think I think we are more hoping that people have more opportunities to see this diversity in terms of the wine can fit better with and kind of wine. So I hope, this is gonna help in term of the consumer for wine, per capita, from from not to the future. Yeah. Let's hope so. But which are the more the main countries that are importing the genuine wine? The the main countries are number one is Brazil in terms of volume. The second one is China. In term of value, change a little bit. Volume is Brazil. In value is China. So first in volume, second in volume, Brazil. China is first in value, second in volume, And then you have the UK. Yeah. And and then number four is USA. That's pretty shocking. I'm sorry. I just had to introspect. Because your number two export countries China recently or oh, it's always been like that. It's after they've, embargoed, Australian one. Is that correct? No. No. It's not correct. Because China has been one very important market since years ago. Now, of course, this problem with Australia, we are getting more opportunities to go in, but I am speaking about some, like, the numbers from the last two years. So, so China, is a strong market for us for for for So it's always it's always been number two export market for you guys or just recently. I think I believe it's pretty, the impact of Chile market, Chile wine in China. I think it was definitely accelerated by the the absence of Australian ones. At at least that's what I had understood, but that's that's fascinating. Do you travel to China? Not yet. And and it's really good. This is because, now we are getting stronger in in China. We have this opportunity because of the Australia thing, but, for me here, I managed, like, the premium icon wines from a huge group. And, now we're starting to sell more to China in in premium wines. And, my first, trip to China was was settled, was over program, like, two years ago just when the pandemic start. So, so this is gonna be my first wind travel when the the frontiers are open, and we can start again to fly, to another countries to say why. So, Gabriel, how long have you been, an analogist? I have thirty nine years old, and I started to be a noologist. I've I finished my, my, my, analogies in degrees, like, twenty three years old. So I have more than fifteen years traveling while making, but I settled down here in Chile, many years ago. I spent, like, three years and a half in a company in Curico, Mipobale, and then another eight years, like a tip oil maker and managing the cosignumaku winery that is situated more in Maple Valley. And now, I'm working here for more almost four years in charge of the icon wines of BSPD wine group. So what kind of wines are you producing now? Just for, you know, because usually we're focused on Italian wines, but what are you personally producing? From here. What kind of wines? Just give us kind of a panoramic view of what you're producing. Yeah. Here, we are producing like, more terrier kind of wine, very specific and unique wines. Here we have Relartis and winery. It's a small one. We're making around thirty six thousand cases. Mainly, we work here in Catapua Valle in the andes part of Chile. So we are focusing to show icon wines from andes influence. And we have, a single cabernet sauvignon that discover the owners. We have, a an icon plan that's called Altaair. It's a blend of mainly coveredness of onion, some zebra cabinet Frank, and some carminer. Also from the Zendesk area, but it's more for the slopes or more higher altitude. You compare with the cap. And, we have another blend that is the second wind of altair that is called Cedaral. And also is a blend of the whole area, more of the flat land and from the slopes. And that is, also a blend of cabinets ofignon Carpenter, Governor, Frank Sierra, and Petiverto. Those are the three wines here from Catapua and focus in the underside. We have another two wines that are really small production, but really terrible wines. We have, here, single Sierra from the coastal part of Elquibale. It's really near to the coast and, more in the north part of Chile, near a city that is La Credena. And it's very special Sierra, very cold influence, and very strong in term of pepper, this olive, notes, and, this, like natural acid and and cholera, it's very special syrup. And we have also a single carpenter that is coming from a more south Mali Valley from a place that's called Pengawi. In that case, it's very special. It's a little bit more hot. We have their, soil that is very special too. It's a colloidal soil, but the earth, the color of there is, is, is purple, and the wine is called Terras Morales. So What does that mean? Terras Morales. What is that? It's like purple earth. Because if you look the bean jar and you see the soil looks purple, the color of the, and the, and the, and the, so, so that's why it's really terrible winds and special spot where the the ginger is situated, that the the soil is, purple color red natural because of the natural minerals that we have there. So it's very special carminer two. It's more stroop to red. Very well balanced, and and maybe now we are selling that in the local market because it's a very small quantity. So, you know, when we think about, I mean, most people, right, when we think about Chilean wines, we're thinking of immediately we're thinking of common air. Right? But it sounds like you are producing mostly Bordeaux blends plus, some shiroh. What about your cabs? What what is the main difference between your cabs and let's say, you know, old world, like, coming from Bordeaux in terms of, style and styles in terms of taste and aromas. Yeah. It's incredible. Like, here, here in Chile, Carmen realized it's one of our flags worldwide, but, in term of, experience in Tile, in wine, is more we have more experience in Cavena, so in yon, for many meter years ago. And, in Chile, we have, with that experience, if you compare the cabinet from another places here, like, we train. We we we can produce a a link in common, with this maybe new world character or something. We can find a cabinet on that is, really built. It's not that's very strong in term of, tunnings with great maturity. We can get the easily, red fruit and good maturity with, good balance. So, it's something that our our country or some places give us the opportunity to show, coveredness of onion with great expression in terms of the fruit. It maybe can be less pyrosymic and we can have this more, like, more fruit expression of the carbonate. Yeah. So less, the green, porosine. Right? Okay. I I I'm sorry. Jose. I've hijacked your interview, but were you done or should we invite some, we don't we only have few minutes. If anyone would like to come up and ask a question either to Jose or Gabriel, please raise your hand and we'll bring you up on to the stage. But with a follow-up with that Gabriel, what is the, like, the difference in terms of consumer taste profiles By the way, when you said thirty six thousand cases or whatever, is that do you mean cases of twelve or six? Of twelve. Of twelve. Yeah. You're, of course, you're on the American side because we say here first first six. So like a consumer, chilean consumer, typically, when you what are they looking for in a wine? I know this is a gross generalization. Are they more into the fruit? Are they more into the tannic structure? Or acidity? What are what are they looking for more when you compare the Chilean consumer to an Italian consumer? You know, of course, I'm Italian Wine centric. So my question really is, let me just translate that question into something market oriented. An Italian wine producer who would love. I'm I I'm pretty sure Italian wine is very very small in terms of market share in Chile. But if what kind of wine would be interesting for the Chilean palette? That's, I guess, my question. That that is an interesting question because, now everything is evolving. And the usual like, wine drinker in Chile, maybe years ago or or more, like, atari, like, it's more old, maybe forty and older. The people mainly want those kinds of wine that are more huge wine, maybe more woody ones, more volume, maybe with more sweetness. Alcohol. Like, more alcohol. Exactly. But the thing that are evolving a lot. The people now are searching with we have some people that are looking for those kinds of wine and another ones that, are looking more freshness, less alcohol, And another ones are are looking those wine with more acidity, maybe less volume, more easy to train. So this is a really important thing that in in terms of diversity in Chile, that now you can find the one that fit better with you. You can find this all stylish kind of wine, you know, with from some company or from some places. And also now, you can find this more freshness more drinkability kind of wines, and in that way. In in my case here in this seller, now we are evolved also in our high, high, high rent, or high prices wine, We are searching more for delegated wines, and we are go farther in that way. More than that strong, a high alcohol level wines. I think it's more difficult in in in that way, but when you have the good terrace, the people, have more drink. The wine is more drinkable, and the people is appreciating better the wines too. So I think it's gonna be it's gonna help the conceptions too. And are are is the young younger generation, the next generation, I guess what I'm talking about is the gen I guess not gen z. They're quite young, but gen, y, you know, after the millennials. Are are they are they drinking wine, or are they drinking more beer and artisanal you know, cocktails or or whatnot. Mainly, they are drinking more beer and different cocktails. So I think this demand Just like everybody, every Yeah. Everywhere else in the world. Exactly. But I think, also now we we we we have more more part of, in in the consumer of that, that that generation too because, with this kind of wine and different innovation that you can find that maybe less alcohol, more drinkable wines. The people are are are more like, have more opportunity to fit with the wines. And I think, this drinkability, and the wind that's going further in that or the winds that have more, like, sense behind, the the wind, the most sustainability, organics, or biodynamics, or trying to help the the climate change. Those generation also are looking for something that give you more than a taste, something to have a background that Some purpose. Some purpose. Exactly. And I think the wine industry and through the wines, you can show a beautiful purpose in in in that way. So, I think that's gonna engage better that, that generates. Jose, did you have any more questions? Otherwise, I'll ask one last question, and then we can close-up the room. So the I have a question, which I don't know if you know the answer, but maybe you can give us a general guideline. What is the price structure like in Chile? For example, an importer imports the wine for, let's say, five dollars US. What what are the multiples of being sold that in a wine shop? Or, you know, let's say a supermarket or as versus a restaurant. Do you know? Oh, that is, I know about the imports, but, here in Chile, if, now it's changing a lot because usually in a restaurant, you can if you compare it with the wines shop or the supermarket, same one maybe can have, like, three times the prices that usually have in the restaurant. But now you can find restaurants that are working also with the same price. And I Oh, really, that's interesting. Yeah. It's really interesting. Also, like, the restaurant that is working, like, or or showing better the wines or the people that are searching for the wines, having the, in, in, in, I strategy that is different. So you can find good quality wines and a really good price. So you can eat and drink really good wine at the same place without paying so much, with a bottle of wine. So that three plus I think some restaurant, are still with that, that way to do it, but another one is going more like approachable wines, and this is also helping in, in terms of, the consumption. I mean, can you is it is it a common practice for customers to bring their own wine? Of course, with the corkage. Is that is that a common practice in Chile at restaurants? I think the only ones that do it is the winemaker, so familiar, another ones that work in the wine industry. But, really, the people are not taking their bottles to the restaurant. It's something that is not really, like, an issue of thing. Mhmm. Okay. Of course, every restaurant have this option, but, but not all the people is doing that. Alright. Okay. Very good. So I just want to say thank you so much, Jose. And also, I guess you guys are friends. Right? Now we're friends. Gabriel, how do you say Gabriel? Yeah. Okay. Okay. And, Moose. What kind of name is that? That sounds more Greek. Yes. Yeah. It's Greek. Mustak is coming from here. My family is coming from Kepalonia. Oh, okay. How did you end up well? I don't think we have time for that but how did you end up in Chile? Uh-huh. No. I guess we'll have to open another room to talk about why how you ended up in Chile. So, well, my my my grandfather's My grandfather came directly from from Greece after the the war, the the war. Wow. Okay. Very good. Yeah. Listen, Gabrielle. If you happen to come to Italy, we are here for you whenever you would like to pop by, and we can share some Italian wine together. Oh, nice. Thank you so much. And when we're in Chile, we will definitely be looking out for you. Yeah. This is gonna be your house. So Okay. Excellent. Love it. I just self invited. Okay. Very good. Thanks, everybody. Chara Gatsy. Tomorrow with Valadia, Tennyson, with car, Carolyn WALT. 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