Ep. 121 Monty Waldin interviews Antonio Capaldo (Feudi San Gregorio) | Discover Italian Regions: Campania

Italian wine podcast. Chinching with Italian wine people. Hello. This is the Italian wine podcast. My name is Monte Walden. My guest today is Antonio Capaldo. Antonio is the chairman of Firdi Sanlegorio. Hello, Monte. How are you doing? Good. So you you're one of the great talkers. So I'm just gonna wind you up and then let you spin. How did you get into wine? What did you study University. I actually don't come from a wine, from a wine family. So I studied, economics, and then I worked in, in, international finance and then in consulting. For international finance for charities and things like that. Yeah. And development. Yeah. After that. Okay. Before I was in the dark side. So I was in banking before in, Lazar Bank in Paris. Then I got into McKinsey the consulting firm. And then I did my thesis on microcredit. So I was in the charge finance. And then I got back to family, you know. So, and, to the family business and to the winery that was created in eighty six. This is the, it was created by my dad and my uncle. And then the family progressively, no man, no member of the family was involved in the daily operation. So I got in and, I was, I mean, it was a big change in my life. And all the things I learned before, there were ninety five percent useless, to run a real business. So that's in three But did you always secretly want to do this? Very secretly, probably. No. I I didn't know that. I I actually joined the winery when I was thirty two, and, I think I started thinking about it when I was twenty seven, twenty eight, not before. For sure not before. I was, not even drinking that much. So then I got into this. I did my sommelier classes. I studied. I don't have a white maker, background, and I never have. But, I studied I studied before joining. And then, and then I just got in and luckily I have, a very strong staff inside, and I created a staff that is very strong on the, on the Viticulture and winemaking's part where I'm a little bit less, of course, knowledgeable. And, So how did you change that? Was that difficult getting people in that you want to? What did you look? What do you for someone that's working in the vineyard or the winery. Loyalty, ability, commitment. Well, loyalty is, loyalty is a very nice word, but, it's, for me, it's not particularly important. Loyalty goes where there is leadership and is a serious behavior by the company. So loyalty, you need to, you need to gain that. Also, it's relatively easy to gain loyalty and trust if you behave correctly. So the most important thing was, competence and competence that go in a winery that was eighteen eighty six by a family that didn't know why making experience before was bringing the best expertise from outside, but being able to adjust to a local place where people that grew up in the area, they knew how to make the but they didn't know how to explain it. So in a way, we needed to put together a team where we had experts from other regions or any way from with long long standing expertise with people who had an intuition about what should be done in the vineyards because they've been doing that forever, but they didn't know how to to pass to to to explain it or to or to systematize this. So we have it now. We have a staff of, five people in the vineyards of six, three of them are from, Ethiopia, so from the the the hometown where the wine is located. The other three come one from Frulli, one from Tuscany, and another one, from Frulli. And then the winemaking team is the same. We have internal winemakers that are all from the area, but then we always always have two or three consultants don't make the wine. They just give an outside perspective because we're all a little bit self made. And the sometimes that said, I think it's a limit to some Italian, areas, and our area for sure is that we, we tend to be a little bit self reference. I mean, I don't know how you say it. Self regarding. Self regarding. Correct. So we just say we've been doing this forever. This is the way to do it. But in our area, we need to we definitely need to break the past and do much better. We can do much better. Yeah. Because there's always this, perception of the south, this romantic perception of it, and also the kind of slightly careless attitudes sometimes to precision in the winery or things like that, as well as of obviously local issues, social issues, things like that. And then there's the other side that you see over the south where you really find wines that are completely and utterly unique, and that are just brilliant, that are just world class that cost really relatively little. So how do you see yourself? Do you see yourself a little bit in the middle of that tradition may be making wines that are of limited international interest or the very sort of modern style wines that have universe to appeal. You want to be somewhat a little bit in the middle? Oh, we we we try to, I mean, tradition is something you leave every day. Now, in our area, we have vines that have two hundred years. So pre philosopher, varietals have been there for two thousand years, but you shouldn't sit on that. So, we are definitely we definitely know our mind, we're making choices in the communication, in marketing, and everything. We try to be more innovative and modern. But keeping the tradition in the in the middle of our thinking. So in a way, we are in the middle of the of the of the dilemma that you were posing, but I think you can match the two. You can combine the two. I think this tradition that we all live, my my every grandfather was making wine. My my grandfather was making a very horrible wine in the area like vinegar and, but we cavitaize on that because wine has been in our, in our, in our life forever. But still when we started, we released the white wines before Christmas. That's of the same, the same harvest. That's impossible. So we are the first one to push this until April or May the following year to to allow all the wine to express. So these are things that I don't think it's too modern. It's just, the more correct way to treat the importance of your traditions. So that's where we I stand. Yeah. Common sense. How do you how do you see markets developing, both in Italy and abroad for wine from Southern Italy, Italy in general. In Italy, in general, the consumption is becoming increasingly regional. So in compounding, for instance, we grow every every year, surprisingly because the, I mean, in company, we've been in crisis ever. And on Naples has been sitting in crisis since, I mean, since I was born four years ago, but still, we are able to increase consumption because we are gaining market share versus other regions. And, conversely, we are losing a little bit of assumption in regions where the wines are increasingly important. The local production, like, Latio, like, lombardia, like, media, or mania where nobody was making wine twenty years ago, and now there are interesting wineries. So I believe this, the trend is not easy to analyze, which is one word, but, we are growing in our local areas, and we're also growing as more of the top brands are growing because Italian is concentrating because there has been too many people making wine. There has been too many people trying to sell the wine. And the crisis helped at least on this regard to to concentrate also towards the the last of the trends. So honestly, Italian market over the past five years has been a growth growth for us. On the foreign markets, our category is super small, but we are we are better benefit from the great curiosity that, for instance, in the US, increasingly in Asia, in UK, the so many communities, I mean, or even the top, customers. So honestly, there is, there is a use growth, but the Catego is very tiny, and I believe that we should we will remain, and it's great, and it's nice, a niche product for people who are curious, and we need it. The problem is that the curve is one time. So then you have to deliver. Otherwise, they're curious of something else. So the the the there is, it's always goal to to match expectations when a person is curious, you need to be high standing. So when you say niche or a Nikkea in in Italian? Correct. Do you mean like a sort of, Italian white made from native grape varieties or just Italian wine in general? No. I think our niche is because the of the varietals because the categories are varietals or regions in the world. And the ionic was planted. I think this the surface surface of San Jose is ten thousand times bigger than the surface of aaliyah just to make an example. So they're niche by definition. Greg would eat two Should white wine grape? Allianica, red wine grape, obviously. Correct. You make it Taurazi. Yeah. Taurazi is the docG made of allianico, like, biolo, it's made of the biolo. No. It's the same, it's the same relationship. We're actually two for the Cg, which is the white, one of the most incredible and intriguing white wines that we do in Italy. And I'm not I mean, of course, I'm a partisan there, but, and that means Greco from the village of Tufo. Correct. Greco is the grape, and Tufo is the grapeco is a grape that you find in other places, but, I mean, the result is not the same because Tufo is is an incredible, soil area. Greeco two point four is less than a thousand nectar, the OCG. So what can you do about it? Italian, are used to drink it? So first of all, in the domestic market? So there is little that goes, approved. Fiano, do you make a fiano? We make Fiano Diavilino. Fiano is the grape, Pavilino is the city, and both together, Fiano Davilino is at DOCG, and we make it. And, Fiano is a six hundred or seven hundred extra. So it's tiny. And the only area I need to leave it as three DOCG with two whites and unread, red is thoroughly as we said before. So it's a sign of, even if GOCG is not always as you all know, I do. I'm sure you many people explain every day is not a sign by definition of quality. It's a recognition that has been done to a QR that that is good for both for both sides, not for whites, for ants, because of the, particularly because of the soils. What about tourism? Tourism is, it's an underexploited in your area. It's good for that area. It's growing by, I mean, the companion general, the airport of Naples is growing some thirty percent every year in coming. Of course, the most important, part of tourism goes on the coast. Yeah. Sure. I'm out of the coast. Exactly. Because it's one hour drive from our from our winery. Naples is forty five minutes. So we're not far. So we benefited, we benefit directly because increasingly people are coming to see our winery. We have, on average, every year, thirty thousand guests of which one third is for, foreign people from abroad. Three hundred thousand guests. Yeah. Thirty thousand. Oh, you personally? That's a lot. No. No. I wanna wait thirty thousand because we also have a Michelin Center inside the world. Oh, the little secrets are tumbling and, So out of this thirty thousand, ten twelve goes to the restaurant. Ten twelve are also far in, mostly from US, Germany, UK. Okay. And so we better it directly, but also indirectly because there are a lot of people that go to the Malfi coast and after, of course, it's beautiful to have a week of sun, but maybe when they eat rains and they wanna see something different and they come at the winery. So, definitely, the tourism is increasing. We have a winery is very equip equipped to a welcome guest, but to the structure needs to be improved. It's not tuscany. Of course. We don't have the nine segri trees, more. We don't have many of them. We need to improve that area. Yeah. But maybe it's quite nice that little bit of rusticity and I I like it. Imperfection. It's, like, the unexpected. The whole story thing about the holidays. Yeah. That was all there. I went to the hotel. It was clean. I did this, the shower. It doesn't need to be dirty, but still. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm trying to get that over with you. He said, I went to, campaign. It was absolutely chaos, but my god I had a good time. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I shouldn't, I shouldn't say that because it looks like bad publicity. It doesn't happen every day. I'll tell my brother in a way because he's from Mavalino, so. Yeah, I know. But, but, you know, when we invite, I remember there was a group from Germany, and there was a guy who was, some teeth thatched his, his mobile in Naples. But still, he wanna come back on many times, you know, so he's, even if he had a bad accident, which doesn't happen to everybody, he was so excited about it. He said, I'm so happy. I went to companion. It's naturally my phone, then we bought another one. So the one area was very nice. So even the sign of everything is a little bit exaggerated, you know? And now what, guest house, you have no TV, you have nothing. It's a guest house where you really live a little bit outside the world. Now we have eight rooms no more than that. Just for guests. And I think this is what you said. You said before. It's not dirty, but it's a little bit rustic. Now you wanna leave this kind of, experience. So you're not gonna go back to microfinance then. No. And Antonio Gabalda, thanks a lot for coming in and telling us about a few DD Sengreg audio and your other projects. We didn't actually talk a lot about your other boats who will definitely get you back again. I'll probably have to do this outro again. The producer gonna shoot me for getting all my words mixed up. Antonio Capaldo, thanks very much for coming in today and telling us about Fudy, is it Fudy DeSangogoro? Yeah, they've written about it. That time lucky, Antonia. I just want to say thanks to you, Antono Capaldo of Fudede San Greg audio in Campania. Thanks very much for coming in today. And, telling us about your pre wine career, which is, we could do a whole series on that, I think. I'm very excited. Yeah. You are, I don't remember any Italian that speaks quicker than you in perfect English as you do, but your story's incredible, what you're doing, and I love the idea that you're really seeing wine with the big picture. So it's it's the it's the memory factor. It's the quality factor. It's the local great fact of the tourism factor. It's all it's all very joined up without being kind of boring. Thanks. Yeah. You had a big smile there. You're so worried about what my last hope is gonna be. Doing such an expectation about this last word. Sorry. I always always really look forward to meeting you and talking to you because you I find you incredibly stimulating company. You're a you're a great communicator. You should do my job. You know, I'm a terrible parent guest. That's not true. So you won't own a you won't own a huge amount of money. That's not true. I've made wine, but I'm a pretty shitty winemaker. So, you know, it's not like you could even employ me in your estate know. I've also pretty much a shitty white makeup so we can switch. Why don't you stick me in the vineyard pruning or something? I don't know. You know, anyway, Anton. It's really great to see you. Thanks a lot, mate. Thanks. Follow Italian wine podcast on Facebook and Instagram.