Ep. 76 Monty Waldin interviews SimonPietro Felice (CAVIRO) | Italian Wine Coops

Italian wine podcast. Chinching with Italian wine people. This podcast has been recorded during Vivite an event organized by the the Alliance of Italian Corps. Hello. This is the Italian wine podcast with me Monty Warden. Today's guest is Simon Pietro. He is the general manager of the Cabiro Cooperative Group, which is based in Feenza, which is a very nice little town in the Romania region of, we're not even gonna say Ameliaermania, but it is kind of Amelia but you're in the you're in the better half. I'm gonna say that. Okay? I thank you very much. Yeah. You can send me the money later to my Swiss Bank account. Alright. I do. Just do it in three stages there. Otherwise that it gets raised with. I listen to. What what is a cooperative group and why is Cabiro capillo is a cooperative group because he was founded fifty two years ago by, a number of, cops, that decided to put together their strength to battle and put their wine in the market together and not individuals. What was happening fifty years ago? Why was it so difficult then when they decided to merge in and pool their resources? Fifty years ago, it was very difficult for a small car itself to go abroad, to to try to market this wine, to try to find an identity on its own. They decided to put together a very large number of cops. And today, there are thirty two shareholders of Kaviro that could relatively, represent thirty seven thousand hectares of land. So we define Cabiro, the largest vineyard in Italy. And together as a group, they put the strength together to try to to market their products abroad. So where are your main vineyard hard areas then. You're not selling wines from every single Italian region or you have particular areas, particular regions that you're strong in, which are those? We represent seven regions. The largest one is Romania, about fifty percent of our production comes from Romania. Then we have the other six most important region in terms of wine of vineyards in Italy, Sicily, Apuliet, Abruzzo, Emilia, Emilieto, Emilia, of course, the the other side of Romania. We really wanna talk about Romania today, I'm sorry. Fantastic. Right. So no piamonte? No piamonte. Yeah. No big audio. Not yet. Is that because, like, Centina already very strong in cooperatives and they're well organized. Yes. Yes. They were very well organized. They didn't decide to put together their strength with the other Romanyoli and other places, so they they went by themselves and they're doing a wonderful job. So in terms of your key brands or key wines from all these disparate regions. Do you create, like, a single red wine that maybe contains a bit of sicilian wine, a bit of romagna wine, a bit of, I don't know, whatever whatever wine. Is that what you do? We we we do both. We have a single brands like Taternello, Tavanello is the number one brand in Italy, and the number one selling brand also abroad as a single SKU, which collects wine from all the regions. So, I mean, Tavanello often see, living in Italy often see advertisements for Tabanello on the on the TV. Why has that wine been so successful? He has been so successful because you we need to think about what happened, thirty years ago when it was created. Thirty years ago, it was very difficult to buy wine at an inexpensive price knowing what the origin was. You could buy wine locally. You didn't know exactly what they do with that wine. The reputation of the wine at that time wasn't so good. Tavanello was able to give a trace to to to give a security to implement a control procedure that makes sure that in every single Tavanello, sold in Italy, was coming from people that belong to the up. And so it was controlled from the beginning to the end. The quality was controlled. It wasn't the best, but the price quality ratio was very good, but it was controlled from the beginning to the end. And then at that time was very important. So if I go to my local supermarket, I do see Tabanello on sale. If I buy a bottle, it's a red wine, there's, obviously, you make a white wine as well. Yeah. So if I buy a bottle of red, I know it's difficult to say, but typically, what will I be drinking? Will it Sangiovese with a bit of Nero Davala, or will it be Alianico with, cabernet? Is it difficult to say? Do you style it differently for different regions in Italy? No. No. We we have a sec secret recipe. We don't tell exactly what is made of. Because Tevernello is we we sell eighty million, eight zero million single pieces of of Tevernello. So it's quite successful. And we Just sold in a tetra pack, isn't it? He sold in tetra pack. They're also in glass. We started selling carbonalo in glass about five years ago, and we already reached about four million bottles of carbonello. We don't we don't tell that the recipe, but the recipe is made of a blend of seven different religions in a particular way that is as been the same for the last twenty years. And what is the aim in styling that as a red wine? Are you looking for something that's, very concentrated or something that's a little bit sweet and fruity? How does it work? Yes. It's sweet and fruity. It's an easy wine. We don't try to be too complex, has to be a wine that is liked, that is appealing to a very young customer as well to a very new customer. Woman and men, it does not discriminate a a long gender or age. It's a wine for everyday drinking, of course. Do you make a tavern, do you make a tavern, and a white as well? Yes. We do. What's that? I can't ask you what it's made from, but obviously, and you make a presume you make a Rosato? Yes. Actually, the white is Salim than the red. Really? About sixty percent is white. Thirty percent is red and ten percent is horizontal. Do you do sparkling as well? Yes. With the on the on the bottle, we do sparkling. And in terms of, our red wine cells of Tavanello particularly concentrated in a particular region in Italy and the white wines are sold in different regions or what is the percentage of cells of red and white, literally? We sell a little bit more of white wine in the north of Italy, a little bit more of red wine in the south of Italy, but red is similar to the distribution of wine in Italy. And, but the different is little. People buy Tavernelo because they know what it is. They know that it comes from those vineyards, the thirty th thirty seven thousand hectares and they don't like they don't buy it because it's different from any other thing. It's just tavonello. It's made the way has been made the way for a long time, and if people like it, they just buy it. So if I if I'm growing grapes for your I'm part of your I'm a growing a cooperative system. If I'm in, Sicily or I'm in, say Tuscany orbruso, am I paid? How am I paid? Am I paid on kilo or my am I paid by the grape variety I'm growing? So if I'm growing, say Alianico, and my yield is quite low because I do a lot of work in the vineyard. Do I get a higher price per kilo than say somebody in Sicily who's growing Nero Dabolo and his yields are three times more than me. His alcohol level is lower than mine. His quality is not as good as mine as it were. Yes. We we pay the vineyards. We pay our, shareholders, which are co ops, which in turn, they pay the the winemaker based on the variety of degree. So certainly, certain variety are are paid better than others. Good. Well, like, what what are the popular ones now? What are the what are the most expensive ones? Certainly, the most expensive are Canti, to Sanjay. Sanjay, for for a certain extent, for Cocco and vino Gridio with a very common mind, while other varieties, like, Trebiano, in Romania, are certainly paid well, but not as much as as the others. So it's very mark market oriented it, then there's a Absolutely. Okay. Also because as you know, from the same actor of land, you you you grow more Trebiano than Pirocrigo. So it's natural that the one type will be paid more than the other because the harvest is in what what do you think the future is for cooperative wine going in general in Italy, not just from your perspective at Cabiro, but in general, do you think my impression is that often it's a lot of old white men growing grapes just like their grandfathers did, but they don't have any successes. It's the daughter or the granddaughters are not taking over there. They're not interested. There's no incentive for them to do it that much rather be in an office, air conditioned in front of their iPad. Side. Is that true? Very good point. Very good point. I come from two previous experience, managing wineries that belong to private shareholders, and this is my first experience in a cop. I like the cop more because I believe that in general, in the future, companies must be larger. Must have more finance to promote their products, must have, projects to do something new, and only large entities can do it. The coop model is an HD model because it can put together a lot of, different vineyards and winemaker in different regions and do one project. Tavernelo is an example. We are launching a new project, for the next year. There is a a different wine in a completely different shape, and we are collecting wine from, all the regions. And they cannot do it by themselves. They don't have the strength of Cabiro. They don't have the the finance of Cabiro. So I think as a model, it can work. Of course, as compared to a butler, to a private butler, the cost are higher. So the quality must be better. And the and the people must appreciate that it comes from a cop instead of the private matter. So it's funny how strong the cooperative system is in Italy because the classic view of Italian Italy or Italian people is they're highly individualistic, highly creative, not easy to work together, but the cooperative system here is still very strong. You maybe it has declined recently in terms of, in terms of the numbers of growers who are affiliated to corporatives, but that's I would say that's probably a general trend anyway. Yeah. I think so. I it's a general trend, and we tried we we must stop that being a being But how though? I think we must start going back to our culture. Our culture is identified. It was wild. And now instead, we a lot of people are against wine. They see only the evil aspects of wine, drinking and driving to young people drinking, wine is part of our culture, and it's part of the culture of Europe. So we try we must try to bring back those values, to have a larger number of people drinking. So we have a larger number of people growing grapes. But with climate change, you're gonna we're gonna get wines that have more alcohol. So what about styling? I mean, Tabanello, would you make a, like, a low alcohol version or a no alcohol whole version. Yes. It's very simple. You just harvest a little bit earlier. And so the the insulation sugar can fit in the grave and less alcohol at the end, or you can strip out alcohol after the process is done. There there are there are ways to make lower alcoholic and lower calories, why. And that's what we are working on. So what are the main consumption trends in Italy at the moment then just overall, not just for Tavanello, for your particular brand or the other brands that Cabaret has accrued. But in general, people drinking more, they're drinking less, are they drinking less but better. They are drinking less, but better. They are drinking more sparkling. They are drinking more outside of dinner and lunch. They are drinking for aperitiv, for meditation, they are adopt in a style that is different from our fathers. They used to drink heavily during the meals, and we just use wine more of a of a of a of a way of interacting with the child. So is there a future for spritz that's like very low, very low alcohol wine that with fizzy water added to them, you know, the last teaspoon anti example is what, five degrees alcohol. Is that you think there could be a few even for red and rose wines at a really, really low alcohol? I think so. I think so. We are working on that, and we believe that to try. Are you targeting that idea for the Italian market or even for the Scandinavian markets or the American markets, the Chinese market? All over the world. We believe the trend that is all over the world because people are more concerned about the calorie intake than working soon about being able to drink and still driving, still going to work. And they're concerned about able to drink at a young age where they come from here and from other low alcoholic beverages. So we think it's a global and we need to target that with particular products. Isn't one of the ironies though that if you're targeting younger people for these, I think what you said is makes absolute sense in terms of what the market is saying for for younger people, it isn't the demographic of the people growing those grapes, the old white men that we traditionally associate with wine co operative, and the statistics do suggest that that kind of is the main demographic of production. When that generation dies off, who's gonna be the one that's who are the who will be growing the grapes for these low alcohol wines for the younger generation that doesn't want to go and work in a hot field all day long pruning vines or plowing them. How can you change that? Yes. What can you do at a government level? Yeah. At a government level, I don't know. I know what Cabiro can do. Cabiro must put in place laboratories for young people, they want to approach vineyards now because their father and grandfather did it. Must not be something that I need to do it because I don't have any other choice. We need to, we want to attract young people that come from different sectors and give them the possibility of growing grapes, making wine and selling wine. So when you say a laboratory, you're not actually talking about a laboratory building. You're talking about areas where like a sort of not university, but, work experience in videos. Working experience in videos. To to give, to give them a taste of what the outdoor life could be. Yes. We believe that even today for a young, for the young generation for a for a for a person of the twenty five, thirty years old age, growing vineyards and making wine can be a better job than many other jobs that are around. Even if he doesn't come from that solution, when he needs to have some somebody helping them to approach the market, Otherwise, the investment is too high. Because I think the last Tabanella advert I saw on TV, it's very well filmed. I have to say brilliant with Thank you. Lovely soft sunlight. And the the old guy, classic guy with his beret that has kind of delivered the grapes and the track all the traders taking them away. There were some younger people there, like a very, obviously, attractive lady, I think, a mom, and possibly with her kids, and I was thinking, are these kids actually gonna be able to follow their granddad into the into the vineyard, or they're just gonna go home and and and drink the Tavanello and switch a football. It it's a very difficult challenge. It's a absolutely a difficult challenge. I don't know what they can do at government level. I believe they should stop only looking at the evil at at the better aspect of wine. Wine has a lot of good aspects, but nobody talks about that. It's much easier to say, don't drink if you are pregnant. Don't drink if you are more than sixty. Don't drink if you're below eighteen. Nobody says that a good glass of wine at each meal is good for you. Yeah. Okay. We try to do that as Kavir. So one last question. What is the next, for Kavir? What's the next step? What have you got in the pipeline? Any new initiatives that are coming on stream in the future in the near future? Yes. We ever. We are working on a new sparkling wine, because the trend now is sparkling. Something that come from our our base, our shareholders, something that is new, completely new in taste, in alcohol level, and and also in in option, with people, maybe through drink with other aperitivo, and it should be launched by Vinitari this year. Great. So Simone Pietro Velice from the Cabero Cooperative Group. It's been a real pleasure to talk to you very interesting to hear about Tevernero, which is if you haven't heard of Tavanello, you haven't lived, basically, because it's such an important part of, everybody knows the word Tavanello in in Italy. Nice to hear about that. Great to meet you. And we're definitely on the same page when it comes to the few future, both in terms of what people should drink and how it should be grown. I'm very, very into this idea that younger people can, get involved in in wine. Otherwise, none of us are gonna have a job in the future, or anything to drink, either which should be a tragedy. Yes. Really nice to meet you. And I wish you and your group, every success, your corporate group, every success hope to see you every class at Avenue sometime. We'll do our best. Thank you very much. Thanks a lot. Bye bye. This episode has been brought to you by Vin Italy twenty eighteen, taking place in Verona from April fifteenth to eighteenth. Vin Italy is the wine exhibition that helps you discover and get to know Italian wine and features over four thousand two hundred wineries. Follow Italian wine podcast on Facebook and Instagram.