Ep. 1034 Stephanie Cuadra | Get US Market Ready With Italian Wine People
Episode 1034

Ep. 1034 Stephanie Cuadra | Get US Market Ready With Italian Wine People

Masterclass US Wine Market

August 7, 2022
95,77361111
Stephanie Cuadra
Wine Market
podcasts
wine
italy
journalism
spain

Episode Summary

Content Analysis Key Themes and Main Ideas 1. Identifying and leveraging niche markets for fine wine imports in the US. 2. The unique opportunities and challenges of operating an import business in a ""control state"" like Utah. 3. The significance of direct-to-consumer relationships and community building in wine sales. 4. The business model focused on small, artisanal producers and indigenous Italian/Spanish grape varieties. 5. The role of education and curiosity in shaping consumer demand for specialty wines. 6. Stephanie Quadrop's entrepreneurial journey, including her shift from journalism to wine, her documentary, and her winemaking endeavor. Summary In this episode, host Steve Ray interviews Stephanie Quadrop, founder of Tarastoria Imports, about her unique approach to importing Italian (and some Spanish) wines into Utah. Stephanie details her journey from living in Utah to moving to Italy, working at a winery, and eventually identifying an overlooked market opportunity in her former home. She explains how Utah, a ""control state"" with a state-run monopoly on beverage alcohol, paradoxically offers advantages for small importers. These include the ability to establish direct relationships with consumers, a highly educated and affluent population, and significant tax reductions for importing from producers making less than 100,000 bottles annually. Stephanie highlights her focus on small, family-owned producers and indigenous grape varieties, emphasizing the importance of preserving these traditions. She also discusses her documentary, ""On the Fringes of Tierdom,"" which explores Utah's unique wine culture, and her new winemaking project in Puglia, where she and her husband are reviving indigenous white grapes. The conversation underscores the idea of finding and nurturing ""nuclei"" of educated, curious consumers in often-overlooked markets as a viable strategy for small wine businesses. Takeaways - Utah, despite being a control state, offers unique and potentially lucrative opportunities for fine wine imports, especially for small producers. - Direct relationships with end consumers are a significant advantage in niche markets, even within a state monopoly system. - Tax incentives, such as those in Utah for producers under 100,000 bottles, can significantly benefit small importers. - An educated and curious consumer base is crucial for the success of specialty and artisanal wines. - Focusing on indigenous grapes and overlooked regions can be a successful business and ethical strategy. - Success in the US wine market isn't solely about major coastal cities; ""nuclei"" of opportunity exist across the country. - Entrepreneurship in wine can involve diverse roles, from importing to producing and advocating for specific regions/grapes. Notable Quotes - ""The first one being it's a control state, and, maybe you can tell us a little bit about what a control state means. Basically, in a nutshell, we're talking up about a monopoly system."

About This Episode

The Italian wine to wine business forum is a success in Utah where small businesses can be part of the wine industry. The speakers discuss the importance of education and finding partners in the US market, as well as the success of their wine business in the Italian region. They also mention their plans to give a voice to indigenous grapes and their commitment to bringing free content every day. The speakers emphasize the importance of educating oneself about wine and being a partner with local businesses.

Transcript

Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. This episode has been brought to you by the wine to wine business forum twenty twenty two. This year, we'll mark the ninth edition of the forum to be held on November seventh and eighth of twenty twenty two in Verona Italy. This year will be an exclusively in person edition. The main theme of the event will be all around wine communication. And tickets are on sale now. The first early bird discount will be available until August twenty second. For more information, please visit us at wine to wine dot net. Thanks for tuning in to Get US Market Ready with Italian wine people on the Italian wine podcast. I'm Steve Ray, your host, And this podcast features interviews with the people actually making a difference in the Italian wine market in America, their experiences, challenges, and personal stories. And I'll be adding a practical focus to the conversation based on my thirty years in the business. So If you're interested in not just learning how, but also how else, then this pod is for you. Hi. This is Steve Ray, and welcome to this week's edition of get US market ready with Italian wine people. I'm pleased to have, as a guest this week, Stephanie Quadrop of Tarastoria imports in, of all places, Utah. Stephanie, welcome to the show. Thank you for the invitation, Steve. Thanks so much. We met at recent, in Italy, and I was really intrigued by your story about how you got into the wine business was more particularly, your recognition of Utah as a, opportunity for fine wines, particularly Italian fine wines export to the United States. So can you give us a little bit of background on how you got into the wine business and why Utah? Sure. So two thousand seven is an important year for me because that's the year in which my family and I decided to immigrate full time to Italy. But the last six years of our American life, my American life, in particular, were spent in Salt Lake City, Utah. While I was living in Utah, I wasn't involved with wine at all. I was actually too busy having children. But when we moved to Italy and eventually decided to, establish ourselves and and make a home for ourselves in Milan, I became acquainted. I was introduced, to a gentleman named Sebastiano Kosia Castiglione. Cevaciano is the owner of Cortabella in Canti Glasgow. Fortunately for me, Sebastian decided that he wanted me to come on board at the winery to oversee communications and marketing. And when he first made that, job offer to me, essentially, I was I was taking it back because I I knew very little bit, very little about wine. I I I certainly enjoyed wine. I I I consumed it on a weekly basis with our dinners, but I didn't know anything about it, really. What he was interested in was my background in journalism and what he, basically offered to me was the opportunity to come on board as an insider to one really, one, a gem of the county class you go at one of the most outstanding estates I've encountered so far in Italy and document their trajectory going from the winery was established in seventy two, but from the nine late eighties on, we're really, a leader, a leading a leading producer when it comes to organic Viticulture and eventually biodynamic. So that was my full immersion experience into wine. I I stayed on board at Cortabella for about seven years where my as as with all family run estates, you end up wearing many hats, and this was a really positive thing for me. So it wasn't just doing marketing in communications, but it was really getting involved with every aspect. Everything from production to distribution, meeting the people, the Cooper, is that made the the barrels where, you know, iconic wines like Batar and Kumar are produced. So I really was able to get this, three hundred and sixty degree vision of what the world of wine was about, and I fell in love. Meanwhile, I kept a home in Salt Lake City, And I was going back to Utah every summer with my children, and I started to see this this opportunity, this incredible opportunity that was being missed. As you mentioned in in the intro, few people think of of Utah as a land of opportunity when it comes to beverage alcohol distribution. And nothing could be, further from the truth, especially when it comes to two cities. Salt Lake City and Park City. And and there is where the idea kind of my light bulb moment came. It's not so much I need to go and conquer an entire state. There were really two cities that were booming economically with a thriving, diverse population that would really astound you, people coming from not only the two coasts, but from all over the world. And they were used to not only drinking wine, but drinking well. And they also had big homes and big sellers to fill. And there was no one really there to to answer to that demand. And there came the idea of Tarastoria wine imports. Cool. So not not in the an opportunity for sure, but not necessarily even a micro opportunity I think it's a very focused opportunity. You know, when Americans for the benefit of non Americans who are listening to this broadcast, when we think of, Utah, we think of Mormons. We think of Robert Redford's Sundance Festival, and we think of skiing. In Park City. And that's kind of about it. It's kind of a I won't say forgotten, but it's not top of mind. And yet, there is this population there of, drinkers who are really, uniquely set up to appreciate fine wines and this represents an opportunity. So but it's not just the population. So all of that is great. You have a lot of suspects in those two cities. But there are some things that make you talk really, really unique. Some good, some bad. The first one being it's a control state, and, maybe you can tell us a little bit about what a control state means. Basically, in a nutshell, we're talking up about a monopoly system. Not, you know, it's it's if we if we talk about Canada, if we talk about the Scandinavian markets like Sweden, there are a lot of similarities. We use the word control, and that sounds really scary. And I should mention, as of this year, just a couple of months ago, the state of Utah, And I think it was a really smart move. They changed the name of the state agency that oversees purchasing and distribution of beverage alcohol from the Department of Alcohol like Beverage Control, to the department of alcoholic beverage services, which I think is is huge. And it's also very telling because it's it's very representative of a cultural shift that is in play right now in the state of Utah. Okay. So a control state, but it is kind of unique in another way or another couple of ways. One of the things that makes Utah very unique, is the fact that you can market directly to consumers. As an importer and a distributor. So while the three tier system does exist and it is a control or a monopoly market, there are some unique things that make it easier to do business in Utah as opposed to harder. As long as the state is always the vehicle, and that is the case. I'm an importer. I'm a I'm federally licensed as a as a wine importer. I bring my wines in directly. I have a warehouse in Salt Lake City. I bring all the wines that are in my portfolio straight to Salt Lake City through the Port of New York. So everything comes from Italy, direct to Utah. And when whether it's a private client, or a retail client that needs to purchase my wines, they essentially have two options. If my wines and very few of them are, listed, but if they are listed through the state, wine stores, they're able to go in and and purchase retail right off the shelf. The majority of my, portfolio, I should mention, are actually, what are called special order items. So you go to my website, you see what I have, and in terms of offerings this season. My the, you know, the customers that that follow me that are loyal to the Tarastoria mission will go online through the state. And I should mention this is available only to Utah State residents. They're able to go through the DABS website, make, place an order and have the wines that they're interested in delivered to the closest wine store, their neighborhood wine store. That's pretty much how it works. So I'm speaking directly to the end customer, but it's always going through through the state. The state the state basically serves as as the distributor. One of the things that is most refreshing, about working in Utah is that I establish a direct relationship with the end consumer. And that's something that is super new unique, for an importer. I don't have to go through any intermediaries. The state certainly doesn't help me. Sell wine or market wine or, get any closer to the consumers that that are interested in my products, but they don't get in my way in any way. And this is something that I think I have to say out loud because there's an assumption not just by outsiders. I think outsiders to Utah don't give it any thought at all. It's people living in Utah that assume that the state is somehow blockading me or blockading anybody that is in the beverage alcohol market. That's not the case. So, basically, if I know who I'm speaking to. I know who I ultimately need to market my wines to. I'm able to communicate directly. So what that means is, I have an Instagram account. Anytime I'm bringing in new wines, the first thing I do is broadcast the fact, hey, followers. This is what we have coming in from Cara Alta and Katalunya, or this is what we have coming in from Mount Edna in Sicily. And, basically, I've established a report of trust. They get to know me personally, Stephanie Quadra, they know me. They've had dinner with me. They've interacted with me personally. And more often than not, my customers, whether it's a a private client or a restaurateur in Salt Lake or Park City, they're buying a lot of these wines without the benefit of even tasting them before they've purchased them because that's not an option that's available to us in Utah. So you've got a limited audience, but they also have limited options of where they can buy, and that's really, a wonderful coincidence of two factors. There's a bunch of other factors. So maybe you can go through them about what makes Utah unique and you can say challenging, but also each challenge is really an opportunity. That's certainly how how I see it. I think, the fact that Utah is so overlooked, the fact that Utah has a a thriving economy. And I should say it's not just a thriving economy. It's a highly diversified economy. So you have a lot of different personalities, a lot of different profiles in terms of consumers. But again, the level of education is quite high. I should also mention, and I think it's not, it it's not speaking to wine specifically, but it's part of the ecosystem. Education overall is is really important. It's a it's it's it's it's something that you don't get away from in Utah. And and I think one of the things that has helped my business thrive, and grow over the last five, six years is the fact that people that are used to educating themselves about any topic. They're applying that to wine as well. So there are two there are more than two, but two that I'm really, close to two wine, schools in Salt Lake City. One is the the wine Academy of Utah, and the other one is the Wasatch Academy of wine. They have been, wonderful partners for me because even though we're not in business together, we certainly support each other, and they're able to really reach out to people that have an inkling. They know that they're interested in wine, but I think something that's unique to you, Taz, that people instead of jumping into things blindly, they like to inform themselves. Before, they do so. And that's where a project like mine that focuses, especially on artisanal wines, from wine regions that are kind of off the beaten path, not necessarily from grapes that you've ever even heard of, it's usually the kind of, curious consumer that's willing to educate themselves that is is best served by this type of project. And I think that's it it's a really great fit for a lot of call them specialty Italian wines or Italian wines that have some unique properties that make them well, I would say non supermarket wines. You need an educated audience, and so this is kind of almost a self selecting marketplace. That part's great. One of the other things that you can't do, which is a big problem, especially with wine is he can't do tastings? They I can do private events. So, you know, as with all things, it's just a matter of knowing, the nuance, being familiar with how things are worded and There are wine events are huge in Salt Lake in in Park City. It it's it's always a matter of finding a partner, which has been really, really a positive one of the most positive and reinforcing aspects of the way I I I run Tarastoria, essentially by building a a direct relationship with local restaurateurs or hotels, or even, as I mentioned before, wine academies, we're able to reach out to a captive audience. We already know that people that frequent a certain type of restaurant with a well curated wine list. It's a it's a given that they're interested in in in the wares that I have, you know, that I'm bringing from from Italy and and to a certain extent also from Spain. So by partnering with local businesses, which is also in the spirit of Utah, it's a very pro business, pro community, pro collaboration type of environment. It's it's it's we've been able and I say we, even though I run the business by myself, I certainly would not be able to do Terra story if I did not have the involvement and buy in from the rest of the community. And my community in Utah are the consumers, the restaurateurs, and and really people that are part of that, that culture. I I I I see wine business as not a business. I see it as part of a culture. No one drinks wine in isolation. So the kind of people that are involved, with the skiing that you mentioned, with, you know, that that type of lifestyle, they love cooking, they love fine dining, they love traveling. All of that is part of that, that sphere. And that sphere is is really, really growing and exploding, within five or six zip codes in Utah right now. And I think we have in in market the marketing side of the industry. We have this kind of simplistic attitude that sampling is one of the most productive marketing promotion tools that we have. And and to an extent or to a degree, that's absolutely true. But sampling somebody on, you know, a quarter ounce of liquid as they're walking through a store is one thing. Being able to sample them at when you're doing a dinner with pairings and all the rest, make sampling that much more more effective. And it's not called sampling at that point in time. So once again, turning a problem into an opportunity. The same thing is true or a similar thing is true with taxation. We all know that, not only is there federal excise tax, but each of the states has their own type of, tax on, beverage alcohol. Talk about the the the Utah structure and where you've found opportunities there. Yeah. Well, in Utah, we don't call it taxation. It is taxation in effect, but in Utah, it's just called the markup. So, basically, whatever the state is tacking on on top of what my my price to them, and that ultimately becomes the price. There's no such thing as as wholesale in Utah. So whether you're a restaurateur or just, you know, private Joe, you're paying the same price per bottle of wine. And what's interesting, and I fell into this really kind of innocently. It wasn't something that I I sought out to do, but it was by virtue of the fact that I had an interest in small producers. And when I say small, tiny producers. The average production across my portfolio is about twenty to thirty thousand bottles, a year, per producer. And Utah, the dabBS of Utah offers a huge discount on their markup. If you're able, if, as an importer, I'm able to certify that the winery in question produces less than one hundred thousand bottles a year. So instead of their standard eighty nine percent markup, retail price, they lower that mark up to forty nine percent. So there's a forty percent savings just by vouching, championing these small family farms, which I should mention has a lot of, currency in a place like Utah. Yeah. And I would add to that, we have this, call it a tax reduction called CBMA. It was from the Craft Beverage modernization. Act. It has a much longer name than that, but those are the the letters that are chosen. And basically that reduces federal excise taxes by about ninety percent on producers making less than a hundred thousand proof essentially every producer you're talking to fits into that qualification. Yeah. So I do that as well. I file for the CBMA when I when I import and then I benefit, down the line once once I get to the retail, end of the of the chain. Are you enjoying this podcast? There's so much more high quality wine content available from mama jumbo shrimp. Check out our new wine study maps. Our books on Italian wine including Italian wine unplugged, the jumbo shrimp guy to Italian wine, Sanjay, Lambrusco, and other stories, and much much more. On our website, mama jumbo shrimp dot com. Now back to the show. So the net net is where a lot of people come to me, a lot of producers come to me and say, you know, I really don't like the three tier system, because everybody else seems to be making more money on my product than I am. I'm I'm the one that has to take the risk of owning the vineyards. And weather and harvest and all the rest of that stuff. The reality is it's a it's a a lot less of a US model in Utah than it is a European model in the way one is sold. It's much more of a fair game. Everybody pays the same price. There's not any of the the pricing creativity, shall we say? And I should also also mention that the the markup, this taxation that goes on to beverage alcohol ends up going into a state fund that ultimately funds, public schools. So there's there's actually a really interesting model there where you feel that you're contributing on one hand, you know that there's seventy percent of the population in Utah that doesn't consume alcohol, but that minority, the smaller portion that does, is in in a way, con contributing to the to the local state and to the broader community. So it's it's a win win, I think. Yeah. And my my, mantra to a lot of the producers I talk to. When you think about the US, Don't think about the US as one country. It's fifty two, actually, fifty two different regulatory entities when you think about it because Montgomery County, Maryland, and Washington DC function as separate regulatory entities. And if you're only producing twenty or thirty thousand bottles and you're only gonna export maybe five thousand of those, then it makes sense to focus on one, maybe two markets as opposed to the US itself. And here's a niche in the state of Utah where the opportunities are really set up to benefit the smaller producers. And I never have thought about that frankly until I met you. And now all of a sudden, this seems like, this is an ideal place to go. So And I think it it's fair to say, Steve, that you Utah, not alone. It's not it is unique in many ways, but I'm sure there are other Utahs out there. The United States, and this is another thing that when we talk about the fact that it's not a monolith, it's not one country. It's vast. It's a continent. And everybody wants to be on the two coasts, and I get it. And I think that can be an ultimate goal, but I think it's a mistake for small producers to want to enter the market through those highly saturated, highly competitive highly jaded markets. There's a lot of markets in between, and there's basically the way I look at them, there are these nuclei. And if we wanted to be semis or pseudoscientific about it, it's almost like where you see an international airport, a university, a diversified, a thriving economy. More often than not, you find people that drink wine, and more often than than not, they're not really being attended to by the three tier system. Okay. So let's move on from the practicality to the creative side. You made a movie. You made a documentary. Can you tell us about that? Yeah. So on the fringes of teardom kind of talks about what what we're discussing. It doesn't kind of, it that's basically what it, wants to focus on. Tierdom being t I e r, d o m, as opposed to t e, may are. Yeah. So I kinda coined this this term, teardum, and And and and basically the way I see it is that I discovered in a place where people feel that there might be, you know, oppressive, dominant culture and things are not as open in as in the rest of the country. I've kind of discovered, like, the opposite, as you alluded to before, yes, the three tier system is present in Utah, but it is interpreted in a very, very different way. Of course, again, if the majority of people are not drinking, it's not gonna really be the big news of the day, but for someone like myself that is importing these small producers from Italy and Spain, what I have found is a wide open space And what I decided to do is play with the fact that Utah has the Sundance film festival. So there's this culture and this interest in not just independent film, but indie culture, all all, you know, all around. And so, I I produced, a short film. It's thirteen minutes long. You can if you go to terraceoria dot com, you can even find the link to it. And I focused on interviews with the women wine producers that I represented at the time and focus it on really the culture of Utah that makes it really an ideal place for for the business model that that is Tara Story. I don't know if that's self serving or if I'm inviting in a lot competition. But I think competition is healthy. And I've already seen the market evolve. I've already seen because I've been become kind of a spokesperson, not so much about selling wine in Utah, but the culture of Utah, the business friendly culture of Utah, and really, it explains why so many people are moving there right now. So this film debuted in and I don't even quote me. I'm starting to get a little confused. I think it was two thousand nineteen on the opening night of, of, the Sundance film festival. We did a screening in Salt Lake City and it was a fantastic, opportunity for locals and the rest of the world alike to kind of understand that there's, this this massive shift happening in Utah right now. One of the other things you told me that I thought was really fascinating was that you've you've modeled your import company on, Kermit Lynch. Can you tell us what you mean by that and, what that signifies? Both for your suppliers as well as for your consumers? Well, I think Kermit Lynch is, it's is a model for a lot of small importers, and it and it's very their business model has kind of broken with the idea that everything in the United States is big. You know, when I speak to producers, they assume, more often than not, when they're speaking to me for the first time that I'm looking for massive volumes. You know, because I'm an importer from the United States. So they don't even think they have a chance to put a foot in the market. So Kermit Lynch just represents, you know, a break, a, a new, a new age in, in wine, not wine importation, wine consumption, in, in the United States. And when you see those types of models, obviously, you say, well, you know, there's there's there's not just an opportunity, but it's it's this is a sustainable idea. And going back to Utah, there's a lot of things that are happening in Utah that helped happen earlier on the two coasts and now it's just arriving in Utah right now. And so I thought that model, that business model tweaked to the, control state system of Utah. Would really have, could thrive. And I'm still far from thriving because I'm still in in the beginning. You know, I'm kind of on the upward curve and in a in a in a very good way, but I think we have a long long way to go before we can put ourselves in the same, category as a Kermit Lynch, but certainly they are, a model, a very positive model for all of us, small guys in the wine business. So a couple of things that that kind of identify you and and and others in your category if you can even say that there's a category is a focus on indigenous grapes. And, obviously, with Italy, we know that's a big part of the story. There's some lot of different numbers I've heard, but over six hundred indigenous grapes. You're focusing on those that maybe even, the the the least known of them. Can you tell us, give us an example of a couple of the varieties and maybe why you decided on those. Well, part of this project is also to give a voice to to regions, not just a specific, producer, but also to some areas that aren't really familiar outside of their immediate area. And when I say not familiar, my home, my main home, as I mentioned before, is in Milan. A lot of the producers and the grapes that they work with have never are not well known in Milan as well. So that just gives you an idea. They're very localized. And part of the the urgency of working with these small producers is that these grapes are disappearing. And so if we have an opportunity to give a voice to these producers who do not have marketing departments like Portcha Bella had, you know, when I came on board, and don't have the opportunity whether it's for linguistic reasons or because they're too busy making wine, so they're not traveling, you know, around the world and and marketing their wine. If if I can, you know, contribute in in even the smallest way, of of giving a lifeline to these to these grapes and to these regions, I see Tara Story as as a as a perfect vehicle because I have a captive audience. I do speak the English language, so even though I'm just selling to a small market like Utah, this is the case in point. I'm sitting, speaking to you on this podcast, and people from all over the world are listening to us. So this is, an amazing soapbox that I have, and that's how I I see kind of a this ethical part of a terrastoria as as as being able to play a role in in the preservation of these historic parts of of Italy and and Spain, I should mention. Italy, to a larger extent simply because this is where I live. This is the country that that I spend the most time in. Speaking of which, you're currently in Pulia. So not only are you an importer, you're also a producer. Yeah. So we wanna talk about indigenous grapes that that need advocacy that that are really in in need of of promotion. I and my husband and I, Roberto La Sorte, and I, started a project in two thousand nineteen in the Valle Ditrea. So imagine we're in Pulia, but we're at four hundred and fifty meters above sea level. We're on a limestone plateau who has which has a vocation for white grapes, essentially. You don't find red wine in the valedictria. But what you do find is the disappearance of vineyards, tiny vineyard holdings, the average size of a, of a parcel here in the Valadica is anywhere between seven to eight thousand square meters. So not even a hectare. And they're disappearing before our eyes. So what we decided to do is to start vilifying and commercially bottling a wine that my in laws have been making for over thirty years. And it's, a field blend. So it's not a a blend that we've created. They're essentially for indigenous white grapes from the Valaditya that have grown together forever, and it's, Verdeca Bianco, Dalesano, Marresco, and Minutolo. These are are the signature grapes of the Valaditya. And that's just one example. I have Tarastoria to thank for even giving me this idea because I've been advocating for these small farms and for these indigenous grapes. And here we had a farm of our own that my in laws decided to sell. And we said, no, no, no, stop. We'll we'll take over the farm, and we'll do something with it. So this is our new project. And and I'm here in Martina Franco, surrounded by truly. So anybody that's been to to the this part of of pool. Yeah. We'll remember these chronic structures where you assume, you know, you can almost imagine little gnomes slipping in. That's where I am right now. Those are called the truly. Right? The truly. Exactly. Wow. I mean, it's not like in your head all that free time to, deploy a whole another initiative. That's great. Well, I don't have a lot of free time, but I do what I love. So I think that's ultimately. So you don't work. Right? That's the old line. If you do what you love, you never work a day in your life. So what we're talking today with Stephanie Quadrop of Tarastoria. And, how can people contact you if, they wanna reach out to you? So the best way I would say is through through the website, terrastoria dot com, has all the information in terms of where I am. If there are events going on, you can always find me through that. Instagram is also a really good way to to contact me directly. T e r r e s t o r a, Tarastoria, or at info at terrastoria dot com. Those are the, basically, the easiest ways to find me because I'm always either, you know, I'm either here or there or everywhere. So a telephone number wouldn't do much good. I I usually end each interview with a a question about what's the big takeaway, and we'll do it again here. Out of all the things that we talked about here, is there a big lesson learned that somebody can apply immediately who's listening to this thinking about that most of the listeners are are in the US trade? I think it's looking at those spots that are are not already inhabited by everybody else. And and I don't mean to do that in, in a casual way. As I mentioned before, I think there are certain criteria. But again, the United States is such a vast country, an educated, market. And when I say educated, I don't wanna sound discriminatory in any way, but it where education is important. I think, more often than not, wine is something that requires cur curiosity and wine certainly the kind of wine that that we are importing or that we're interested in in in in in drinking takes a little bit of thought. It takes mindfulness. And so when you find those nuclei, and there's many of them, there's countless nuclei across the United States where people are interested in in in putting a little effort into any product that they consume. Those are the kind of little little spots that are are being neglected, but that we are very receptive at the same time. So Utah is the case in point. If anybody is coming to Utah, they'll find a very welcoming community of of food and wine lovers. But again, I'm I'm willing to bet that there's hundreds, if not thousands of other, similar situations across the country. Yeah. I think if we, you know, think about it as niche marketing, people have this tendency to think I wanna come to the US and be in supermarkets. Well, if you're only making fifty thousand bottles, it's probably not a good strategy. So rethink the the strategy to one that is both, optimal and affordable for the kind of resources that that you have and find the partners that have already, entered in in those markets or or are exploiting them as terrace story is. I like I like the fact that you mentioned, and I've never even thought of it that way because when you tell you can it's illegal to sell wines in supermarkets. But by virtue of the fact that wine is not sold at the supermarket, the people that are consuming wine are going out of their way. So even if they're just going to the state wine store, They have to make that extra effort. They can't just throw a bottle in in, you know, the shop their your grocery cart when they're picking up other things. So that is an example. Utah kind of puts it on a silver platter for me because that selection that market research has already done for me. But I think if you look at markets across the country, different cities around the country where local bottle shops, independent wine shops are present, more often than not, that's where you already see, you know, that type of, audience. Cool. Great. Thank you very much. Our guest this week is Stephanie Quadra of Tarastoria imports out of Utah, but she's also traveling around the world at all of the various enterprises she's in from Poula, to, Milan, to Tuscany, and to Spain. One of the things we didn't talk about there is he she also import some some product from Spain. So Stephanie, thank you very much for being a guest. It's been a enjoyable opportunity to meet you and, understand your business better. Thanks, Steve. I hope to see you again soon. Well, thank you all for listening. This is Steve Ray signing off for this week. And please tune in next week. We'll have another interesting interview about Italian wines in the American market. Thank you. We hope you enjoy today's episode brought to you by the wine to wine business forum. Twenty twenty two. This year, we'll mark the ninth edition of the forum to be held on November seventh and eighth twenty twenty two in verona Italy. Remember, the first early bird discount on tickets will be available until August twenty second. For more information, please visit us at y to y dot net. Hi, guys. I'm Joy Lemings Denon. I am the producer of the Italian wine podcast. Thank you for listening. We are the only wine podcast that has been doing a daily show since the pandemic began. This is a labor of love and we are committed to bringing you free content every day. Of course, this takes time and effort not to mention the cost of equipment production and editing. We would be grateful for your donations, suggestions, requests, and ideas. 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