Ep. 1063 Stevie Kim | Get US Market Ready With Italian Wine People

Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. This episode has been brought to you by the wine to wine business forum twenty twenty two. This year, we'll mark the ninth edition of the forum to be held on November seventh and eighth of twenty twenty two. In Verona Italy, this year will be an explosively in person edition. The main theme of the event will be all around wine communication. And tickets are on sale now. The second early bird discount will be available until September eighteenth. For more information, please visit us at wine to wine dot net. Thanks for tuning in to Get US Market Ready with Italian wine people on the Italian wine podcast. I'm Steve Ray, your host. And this podcast features interviews with the people actually making a difference in the Italian wine market in America, their experiences, challenges, and personal stories. And I'll be adding a practical focus to the conversation based on my thirty years in the business. So if you're interested in not just learning how, but also how else, then this bond is for you. Steve Rain. Welcome to this week's edition of Get US Market Ready with Italian wine people. This week, my guest is someone I'm proud to be affiliated with and apprehensive about interviewing. Steve Kim. And Stevie, welcome to the show. Hello. Hello. You know, it's Joyce's birthday today. So I think we should sing sing. Are you ready to sing live? One, two, three. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday. How come we can't sing at the same time? Because you're going way too slow. Okay. Let's One, two, two three. The birthday. Two two. But you keep slowing down the floor. No. There's I I think we're constantly at the same time. I bet if we do happy birthday to join, just leaving it at that. Together. Okay. Happy birthday joy. Happy birthday joy. I I don't have my roadcaster, so I don't have the bells and whistles to, the sound effects. But okay, Steve. Let's let's Hi. Welcome to this week's edition of. Get US market ready. You did that already. Why do we need to do it again? Giving her an option. Okay. Alright. Okay. Fine. Fine. Give her an option. So my guest this week is, hosted the Italian Wine podcast. Founder of the Italian wine podcast and father, if you will, mother of the Italian wine podcast Stevy cat, sweetie. Welcome to this week's show. Alright. Hi, buddy. What's up? That's it. That's all you got? That's it. That's all I got. Alright. Alright. Alright. Alright. So the last time we spoke for posterity's sake was, early on in the beginning of the interview phase of, this podcast, which was, like, maybe fifty or sixty. Interviews ago. And, if you'll recall, I certainly do. Holy shit. Oh my god. It was like the very beginning. The last time you interviewed me was when you you were starting your series. Exactly. We did about twenty editions of, me reading the book. Right. Which seems to have been listened to quite a bit. It seems to be, chalking up a lot of listens. And then we began, about a year and a half ago. With, actually, two years ago was in August interviews with people that I thought were interesting, basically starting with, with my friends, and we've done over a hundred, I think, and, running out of friends. Wow. I didn't know you had that many friends back to discovering them, and now we're back to you to the beginning of this whole thing. So what I'd like to do is to kind of talk about me and what I've been doing lately, visa b, what's been going on with the Italian wine podcast? Particularly. Oh my god. I thought you were supposed to interview me. I thought I was the interviewee. You will be. You're just going to be talking about yourself. Only if I can get a word in Okay. Alright. Go ahead, Steve. Go. Go, no go. Go ahead. Go ahead. Just to cut there. Yeah. So, there's been a a lot happening in the in the market in the US. Well, all of a sudden, everybody's back to traveling, even though travel and, getting your luggage back seems to be a big big challenge. I'm just back this week, I had attended tales of the cocktail, which is a major week long event, in New Orleans for the Spirit side of the business, domestic and, international. And it was really interesting and, exciting. One to see a whole lot of old friends and also to see a whole lot of new faces and people. There's been a whole generational change from when tales of cocktail began twenty years ago. And we're seeing fundamental changes from back then bloggers were important. Now it's all about influencers, social media podcasts, TikTok, Clubhouse. Not so much Clubhouse, but TikTok, etcetera. There was a renewed level of excitement there. I thought it was really wonderful. The other thing I thought that was really fascinating and interesting, the way they had it structured, the last day was something called meet the distillers. And it turned out the most important people or some of the most important people who attended the whole conference came only for that day. I saw a lot of, presidents of of different companies, importers, distributors. I saw a lot of, major league F and B people from Marriott, Ritz Carlton, and some of the resorts in the US that do, you know, major national account buys. And in fact, I was surprised to see that because it traditionally had been a, a independent bartender type thing. So But but how big was the event? Like, how many people? I had been told fifteen thousand, but I think it was more like three thousand. That's based on traffic of, people walking down Burman Street in the evening. Well, that's a big that's a large gap. Three thousand and fifteen. It is. But the three thousand people who I think were there were really important, and we did not attract a lot of people from out of the New Orleans area that are not professionals in the business. There were a fair amount of people from New Orleans who were there just for the fun and tasting and exploring new new products. And there were some, products in Italy. There was some Maumari. There were some, vermouths and, things that are on that. Cocktail side, of the equation. But the I think the most important thing was people are back. They're excited on premises happening again. The biggest challenge everybody faces, no surprise is staffing. And also rising food costs. But what, have you been attending wine events as well? Yeah. I went to well, the last two happened to be spirits events, one was Park on Van Brooklyn, which also reinvented himself and was similar to tales. And before that, we did VINexpo, New York, and we also did provine. How is VINexpo, New York? The Nexpo, New York was a pretty good attendance. VINexpo, New York is still trying to find its niche in the US market. There were a lot of producers from France, which makes sense considering the origins of Vinexpo from Vinexpo, which used to meet in Pordeaux. But we're we're expecting WSWA next year to be significant. And, that's kind of it for the trade show season. So that answers your questions. Now it's time for me to get into my questions. Alrighty. So the next big big thing that's coming up in my life is wine to wine, which is your baby. This is now I believe the eighth year, if I'm not mistaken, maybe seven. No. It's the ninth edition. So I got it wrong on the other side. The ninth edition, the first two I wasn't invited to, but we're not gonna talk about that. I've been to the other Honey, that was, like, ninety days ago. Okay. Hang it up. Jeez. You know, you were, were invited, and I wasn't. In any case, it's turned out to be a really, really important event at least in the world that I frequent with the people that I meet and consider because or talk to because it's all about what's what's happening next and how things are changing and on a practical level how to adapt. One of the intros I do for this show these days is to say, it's not so much about how to do things. It's how else to do things. And I think wine to wine really touches on that last year. There was a a lot of focus on e commerce and internet and social media from a variety of standpoints. And next year, my understanding is the focus is going to be on communications. Can you give us a little clarity on, what you mean by communications? Oh, I don't know, to be quite honest. That's such a that's well, it was your idea. Yes. I I know. So let me try to give you first of all, let me give you the the the idea behind doing this because you know every year we choose a topic, like the main topic, there's always for the listeners who are out there unfamiliar with wine to wine, it is a wine business forum. I do believe it's one of the largest, if you will. It is kind of the craziest. There are about seventy sessions. Parallel sessions in two days about one hundred speakers and about one thousand to fifteen hundred attendees. This was of course before COVID. Then we did the one year, we did just the digital. That was the COVID, let's say, edition. And then last year, we did the hybrid, which was, some online, you know, so live streaming as well as in person, event. It was a little hectic, but we were able to pull that off. So this year, you'll love this, Steve, because this is for like old people, like you and me. This edition will be there will be no live streaming. There will be no digital. There will be no apps. It has only going to be in person. Which is correct. Well, I actually wanted to ask the legal department of Verona Fierge if I can sequester all the smart things at the entrance. But I'm not sure. You know, and yeah. I I I'm not sure. Maybe I can make it as optional because the point is that I think, you know, even if you not even at conference, but if you go ever go to even just a staff meeting or just a I know what you mean people are looking at their phones and not paying attention. Everyone is on their damn phone. Yeah. Right? So, like, I wanted to just take that away from everybody and have people listen to each other. That's kind of my thing. My my, so my main theme is communicating, but mostly with each other because I think, you know, of course during the pandemic, we're still going through it, actually. But We got so used to this virtual zoom thing? It's it's it's it was communication asynchronously. But you weren't having a conversation. You were messaging, then someone was replying to, and that applies to text. It applies to a lot of WhatsApp conversations and that I see the fundamental differences. You have actual conversations in real time where you can read somebody's face and body language and get a sense of what they're talking about and share all these ideas rather than just tell what you're working on. And I, and I think that's fundamental that I discover a whole lot of what's happening in the world and impacting the US because a lot of well, in conversation that happens at one point two, at least that I have, is all in English. There's a lot in Italian as well, but, there's a lot of, Americans there and a lot of people whose opinions really matter. And I think that's kind of the important thing. If you go to that show, that that means you're an important thinker. I I think it's just a, a great facilitator of sharing business ideas, you know, in the wine business because if you think about it, I call it the communication this year wine communication us, if you look at in general, people are so focused on the production side and what happens in the vineyards. Right? So people are obsessed about that. Are you enjoying this podcast? Don't forget to visit our YouTube channel, mama jumbo shrimp for fascinating videos covering Stevie Kim and her travels across Italy and beyond, meeting winemakers, eating local food, and taking in the scenery. Now, back to the show. All the winemakers, all the vineyard management, now with all the, you know, climate change, the terroir, Love microclimate, etcetera. And then if you look at the other end of the spectrum, all people are talking about is like tasting profiles. You're just tasting whether it's a master class, whether it's an educational, whether it's a sum recommending wines. It's all about tasting the wines. But in order for the wine to travel from the vineyard from the winery to the tables of the psalms or the restaurants or the master classes. There's so many people involved to make this happen. And and all of that is all about, the entire connectivity happens through the people who are committed to promoting, educating, and communicating about wine. So I wanted to get, I suppose, a little bit more people involved in part of this, you know, supply chain, if you will. So how do you define wine communication? It's kind of an all or nothing It's like when people say what is digital marketing, right? So what we're doing something new is for example, we're bringing in tons of wine agencies, like whether they're doing POs or, just media agencies because their role is so important, right? They're bridging the gap between the producers and the rest of the world. So for the first time, we'll have, dedicated panels to these partner agencies and they will be talking about mostly their case studies so that they can share with the producers. But then, of course, we traditionally we have, we do have what you you spoke about when you went to New Orleans about the wine influence because I think in when we first started talking about wine influences, we mostly spoke about kind of the Instagrammers. I mean, the real wine influencers were, you know, of course, you know, a spectator or Robert Parker of the situation, the wine critics in the past or wine writers. And now, with social media, I think it has kind of become a little bit more superficial of your will. Right? So and it's gone to the Instagramers. But now I think there's kind of a turn and people are more focused on people who are creating content. But we want to know who they are and also, we have one, you know, like I try to, choose kind of the benchmark personalities of each area, like, you know, someone who's very good at TikTok, she's coming, and someone who's very good at YouTube to give us you know, kind of the share their business model, if you will, and their philosophy of approaching and broaching this social media. Well, because I think let's be honest, people in the wine business, their forte is not communication. They're vis a vis social media and digital marketing. So we try to, we are trying to bring the best, kind of the benchmark at least. I I'm not sure I can say they're the best, but very confident and somewhat successful in their own range to illustrate how they've done it and share their experiences. One thing you've left out is the thing we're doing right now, which is podcast. I mean, you've asked me to talk about that. And, something I have to write. My plan is to interview a whole lot of people who are doing this and seeing if we can connect the dots between doing podcasts and ROI. That's always been kind of fuzzy math between the stimulus and the result, but it's something that, measurement is becoming more becoming more and more mission critical in any marketing expenses these days. The senior management is asking for, show me what I'm getting for that in in terms that matter to me or to my customers. I don't personally have the answer to that. I'm gonna be picking it out. And when I speak in, November, it will be I'm gonna come with a lot of data. Well, I think the podcast for us obviously has been very interesting, right? I mean, the way it has evolved, we started with Monte Walden. We asked him to interview a bunch of wine personalities, wine people participating in two moments, one during Vinitally awkward wine, and the other moment actually during wine to wine. And then we used to roll out all of the interviews throughout the year. So that was kind of the the main spiel behind it. And then the pandemic struck, and we started doing daily shows. So two thousand seventeen, when people, even now, to be chronic quite honest. A lot of the wine producers, when I say podcast, they're like, what is that? Where do I get that? Like, you know, how do I find that? Right? Right? So it's it is still, relatively unknown for for the the wine industry at least in Italy. But if you think that we've started in twenty seventeen and the entire year, calendar year twenty seventeen, we had twenty two thousand and eight hundred listens. And now the past twelve months, we've done more than two million. So it's absolutely gone. It's it's been explosive. And and in addition to that, we've started the sister channel of the videos Kolmama jumbo shrimp, and we have just started also replaying that through the other channels in Russia. So in Russian, for the Russian audience, and also today to China. Through their YouTube channel, Billy Billy. So I think it will become quite exponentially expansive. And in terms of the analytics, I think it's it's quite important, I think. So She gotta connect the dots. I mean, what what I'm finding in the US and, most of, the majority of listeners to this podcast are people from the US and certainly people who speak English. A lot of listenership when people are driving, they're no longer listening to the radio. They'll pop in a podcast. I'm astonished at that. The other factor I think people don't realize, especially when you talk about numbers. We were doing pretty good with twenty thousand. I'm getting twenty thousand a month just my show, as you probably know, which is amazing. But if you look at it week on week, the longer something is there, it doesn't decline in audience. It increases. So it's it's almost like the corollary to the long tail that I'm positive in. Yeah. It's saying it has a very long shelf life. You know? So, yeah, because and and I think one of the reason why we are successful, it's because we have a very large library. So people can go and choose and they may choose actually an episode from like three years ago. Yeah. And I think, I think right now, I'm even seeing, slowly also the Italian wine producers, they're coming up to me and saying, yes, we've listened to you on the Italian wine podcast. Like, it's, I think it's, it's only been like a year, actually, the past twelve months, before that never ever happened. So Right. The inflection, if you will. Yeah. You know, I was wearing the Italian wine podcast sticker when I went to Ben Italy, earlier this. And I felt like a minor celebrity. I mean, people were coming up to me saying, oh, I listen to you all the time. But, you know, we operate sort of, in a, in a vacuum because we don't get much other than anecdotal feedback. So we don't really have a whole lot of quantitative, data other than listeners. But, evidently, it's motivating people. And that's just my show reporting back to me. There are six other shows that happen during the week. Yeah. I I think I think, in a way, you know, it is called the Italian Wine podcast. I had this discussion with Poly, but we offer you know, something for everybody in a way. Right? Of course Italian wine producers and Italian wine lovers, Italian wine audience can benefit, from all of the different types of, episodes that we why. But it does offer different things to different people. So I think that is why also we are growing in terms of audience because it's not just in, you know, interviewing producers. Having said that, I mean, sometimes there's an overlap, right? Like you interviewed the same producer as I do because maybe, you know, we're we're not completely coordinated. And of course, we're all so busy, but your interview is quite different from my interview of the same person. Right? So so I think that's also very interesting too. Now how I think in the end, we we have to think about how to bring value to our listeners and, also to the industry. You certainly do a lot. I think, I I don't, you know, I always tell any producers, not even just Italian, but even from other countries who want to, you know, bring their wines to, America, they should all they should do is just tap on to your show every week. Yeah. I mean, it seems it's it's like yeah. It's just it's just almost like free consulting every single week. So I think that's how we bring value to the, to the listeners. Well, the subject matter, the original remit was to talk about, nontraditional markets. That was your idea. And I have talked about a few. I just did one with, Tarastoria. Stephanie Quadrant out Utah as as a separate state. But what I'm finding that people seem to really respond to, and in particular, other podcasters, I had a number of people come up to me this past week when I was in New Orleans asking, How are you guys doing what you're doing with listeners? That they've got a got a podcast. They've got a professional editor as we do, and they have the resources to do it, but they're not generating anywhere near the level of lessons we were at. In comparison even to the to the level of listeners that we have right now. And, what do you think the reason is that there's been that incredible hockey stick chart of growth? I think it's it's fairly simple. It's it's it's really about being consistent and per putting out content every single day. I think it's also sheer just volume in a way. Yeah. But it's better than me. Once you have critical mass, I mean, I take it for granted that every single one of the podcasters are very good professionals who bring value in into the conversation. And so that I take that for granted. Like, you know, I take it for granted most wine are made very well. It's high quality and it it you know, it's it's drinkable, right? Like I take that for granted. I think the most important thing why we have such huge numbers is that it's we're consistent. Every day we we give, we provide content. So people know that even if they can't listen to it today, they can go back tomorrow. I I would add one to mention that isn't just the content, nor is it the fact that the content is good and intelligent and thoughtful, therefore, of of value. I think it's also, a function of preparation. I know how I prepare. I know how Mark does, and Poly does. And the the kinds of questions you're getting are really good journalistic inquiries and and digging into some things. I listen to a lot of podcasts myself and we're petting ourselves I'm patting myself on the back on this, I'm patting all of us on the back and saying, I think we're really trying to dig in and get some really interesting stuff. Not necessarily conversational because this is not gossip. It's to dig into, yeah, okay, that's what everybody says, but what does that really mean? And what are the ramifications of those things like Poly's do an extraordinary job. Of course, hers are a lot longer. And you told me I should only do a half an hour. She goes an hour. Yeah. And you can make that to me. We like her more. But I think that the seriously, that's true that they're they're completely different dynamics of what each of us do. And, I'm frankly walling in it. I'm I'm enjoying the, the response we're getting, and I'm also really enjoying the the digging into it. And at the end of the day, if it wasn't fun, I wouldn't do it. Yeah. I mean, jokes aside. I really thank you so much for doing this, Steve. We love your podcast. I listen to every single one of your podcasts at some point. During the week because I do think it's kind of how I keep abreast of what's happening stateside in a way. Yeah. It's like one of the industry newsletters that only carries three or four stories a day, but it happens every, you know, every day. This is happening every week. Yeah. I mean, I feel like that's, all the new, you know, the new new players, you know, from from the wine industry from states that I I love it. So I think the audience, they feel the same way. You know, and I and all of you, like you yourself and now you said Mark, you know, Mark, of course, he's an extraordinarily intelligent and a great, great person, incredibly generous. And of course he brings the food and the travel and, you know, he's wonderful. So I think he's very different. And like you said, of course, Polly, she's such a professional, you know, in her, in what she does. And she taps into people who I would never meet or think about, you know, meeting. So and that's how also the, you know, people who are from the Italian. I'm very Italian centric, but I get so much out of what, you know, her interviews. So I think that's why you know, it makes sense. Although, we thought about, like, you know, changing the name for her or whatever, but I'm like, you know what? It is Italian Line Podcast and it is going to stay that way because, you know, it's very clear in everybody's mind where to go to to have these kind of conversations. So Well, I brought it down to stuff that's gonna help you and matter in how you con conduct and grow your business. However, you wanna title it. And if it skews off to some other things, there's always, rabbits, to Italian wines that may be more industry centric, but certainly applicable, to Italian wines per se. Yeah. So I think we should close off, this pod right now because it's half an hour into the conversation. So I do I did want to remind everyone that wine to wine is happening in November seven and eight November in verona, only in person. We will, I suppose, put it on the platform, maybe a week later. I I'm not sure I've not decided yet, but it will there will be no life's training. So any of you can come to verona that's wine to wine dot net. I hope you can join us because there are some wonderful people coming to the event and and more importantly wonderful speakers. I agree. Okay. Okay. So, Steve. Yeah. What's the big takeaway? Well, the big takeaway is that, you know, with all of this digital virtual, you know, happening, the way that the way we've been working the past couple of years. Sometimes we need to take a step back to go forward. And this is exactly what my line is. We're going to do only in person and try to listen to each other. And because I think the lost art of listening is something to think about. Yeah. That's a really good point. Okay. This is Stephen Gray saying thank you for listening to, the interview this week. It was with Stevie Kim, who's the doyenne of this whole operation. And, we'll see you next week with another interesting addition of Get US Market Ready with Italian wine people. Okay. Chata Gatsi. Chasti. Happy birthday. We hope you enjoy today's episode brought to you by the wine to wine business forum twenty twenty two. This year, we'll mark the ninth edition of the forum to be held on November seventh and eighth twenty twenty two in verona Italy. Remember, the second early bird discount on tickets will be available until September eighteenth. For more information, please visit us at wine to wine dot net. Hi, guys. I'm Joy Livingston, and I am the producer of the Italian wine podcast. Thank you for listening. We are the only wine podcast that has been doing a daily show since the pandemic began. This is a labor of love and we are committed to bringing you free content every day. Of course, this takes time and effort not to mention the cost of equipment, production, and editing. We will be grateful for your donations, suggestions, requests, and ideas. For more information on how to get in touch, go to Italian wine podcast dot com.