Ep. 1117 Robin Shay | Get US Market Ready With Italian Wine People

Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. This episode has been brought to you by the wine to wine business forum twenty twenty two. This year, we'll mark the ninth edition of the forum to be held on November seventh and eighth of twenty twenty two in Verona Italy. This year will be an exclusively in person edition. The main theme of the event will be all around wine communication. Tickets are on sale now. So for more information, please visit us at wine to wine dot net. Thanks for tuning in to Get US Market Ready with Italian wine people on the Italian wine podcast. I'm Steve Ray, your host. And this podcast features interviews with the people actually making a difference in the Italian wine market in America, their experiences, challenges, and personal stories. And I'll be adding a practical focus to the conversation based on my thirty years in the business. So if you're interested in not just learning how, but also how else, then this bot is for you. Hello, and welcome to this week's edition of Get US Market Ready with Italian wine people. I'm Steve Ray your host, and my guest this week is Robin Shea. Robin, what's your title at allegheny? Export manager. Has been the same for the last fifteen years too. But it seems like you do so much more. So the the way I would ask the question is how does a a California kid end up living in Napa and working for an Italian winery and speaking five languages? Can you tell me then in sixty seconds? Very simply. My mother's British. And so, she looked at my, college, a list of universities I was interested in applying to and realized that there was a very similar overlay to the playboy party report and said. Party schools of of the big debt. Right? Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. You may wanna think about not going into debt for that particular objective. And I had a passport at the time, and the European Union, which I consider just a fantastic project and one that I really hope stays alive. At that time, was coming together. I ended up getting a a degree from the University of Madrid, and there was a program called the erasmus program, which was fantastic. To encourage, cultural kind of interchange in between the countries of the EU. I was able to take advantage of that. I ended up living in Europe eleven years. I have a degree from a Spanish university. I lived in Spain for four years. I lived in Portugal for two. I lived in Italy for seven. And during that time, I I was, you know, from the Napa Valley, so I kind of would fall back on summer gigs that had to do with, you know, making wine in the Doro Valley or Harvest Bing in Porto or making wine in Southern Italy. And, eventually, you know, I fell in love with with Italy and and the culture and and I have stayed, close to to what kinda keeps me keeps me energized. I find that, you know, in in Napa, everybody's head is all about California, you know, the Sierra gap and and all that kind of stuff. And you're Italian wine. Is there a disconnect there or am I misreading some? You know, it was I I'll tell you the story. I I was making wine in Southern Italy. I was really and to to give you an idea, it's I've California wine, you know, there's a lot about making of wine, the technical terroir. And I really appreciate that because here, it's a new world. It's an it's a area of discovery. So you could talk for a very long time about philosophies of oak aging. And, when I tried to do that in Italy, I remember the guy I was working for Sedaro, and I hope you were a Californian guy just wants to talk about the oak and the wine. He said, here in Italy, you know, wine is to help us talk about, you know, poetry, and culture, and cuisine, and history. And at the very end of a meal, after we've touched all the subjects and had a good time, it's only at that point when the bottles finish that you ask. What was that wine? Love that story. That is very true. So and that that was the sort of thing I remember as as a kid from California. I mean, the the first text I was given when I was still making wine was to read was the Odyssey by Homer. He said, start here. You know, try to try to wrap your head around, really. And that and I had some great mentors in that regard. Probably not professionally speaking so much, but I've had some wonderful mentors from a humanistic standpoint. That's Why I still work in Italian wine? Tell me a little bit about Allegrini and its presence in the US and what it is in Italy and and what that means here. So Allegrini is a seven generation family endeavor. Ruth is in the Valpolicella, so this is Northern Italy, the Benito, of course, everything that Allie Grini does is, state produced. So their farmers first and foremost, and their winemakers, after that. And it's been really one of the secrets to their their success. Is controlling quality. They're also innovators. So despite these very, deep roots, if you if you'll pardon the pun, they they really look to innovate and kind of have tradition play an important role in terms of a background, but they they are the protagonists in the play that they are developing. And like many, Franco Aligrini, and his father before him Giovanni Aligrini really questioned local Viticulture techniques, aging regimen, and clonal selection, along with establishing single vineyards from their own states. And they kicked off for their cultural quality revolution in Naval Pollicella. The estate was the first to, use the Guoyo production technique, which actually lowers yields per vine. And therefore, you know, in theory, concentrates more, or shall I say, brings you higher quality grapes with more flavor. They were the first to to implement that in the Valpolicella, and and still to this day, you know, Frank Olegrini was someone who spent in the last thirty years really kind of putting a polish on Ameroni and really questioning some, some, the accepted tradition traditional techniques in order to make a style of wine, which was really reflective of our terroir, and that it's a mineral driven wine. It's a nerdy wine. It's a it's a food wine, which I feel like those are those are fundamental elements of Italian wine. And sometimes when you think of Amaroni, those aren't the things that come from coming to your head. Do you think, you know, power and sugar and sweet and over the top and oak? But this is not what Alligraines. Wine's really about. A lot of that is because of our land. It's just high in calcium, and we produce one hundred percent of our grapes from our own land, but, also because of this this wonderful approach, which allegrini has had with the wines. And and right now, it's a it's an incredible moment of transition for the estate. We lost Frank Olegrini earlier this year, right after Vineidley, to cancer, and it was an incredible blow to the family. Today, the estate is, of course, run by Marley Lee Hallagrini, who has been the entrepreneurial energy and the CEO for the last, you know, thirty plus years. And Franco's sons who have now moved in to fill his very large shoes. One, really dedicating himself to production. That's, Giovanni, the other two bit of culture, Mateo, and in Francesco, who's filling out his, administrative and business presence of the estate. So there's been the growth has has not happened in the Val Bolicella area. They they they bought estates in, Tuscany and in the, Montalcino in particular. Why the expansion there, which is so very different than, Verona or Galpo Lachel. So we've had we've had, wonderful success with Alec Greeni Brand in the US, and there there has been a growth trajectory, but we've kind of got to a bursting point in the sense that we've, you know, estate production has its limitations. And, what the family decided to do in order to be able to continue this successful business model of a state produced wines that really had, a signature, on them was to reproduce the same kind of formula, if you will, or look to the same fundamental key success points and replicate them. So one is fantastic terroir. And and I mean that, you know, from the classic, if you will, New World Sense, so wonderful, vineyards. Producing wine from those vineyards, doing so with an eye on sustainability and producing wines that, had very high integrity. So, I mean, they can age that wines that, you know, were very healthy and very clean And so they replicated that in the year two thousand with Peugeot de Sora in Bulgaria, and then in two thousand and seven in Montocino, or with an estate called San polo. And, really, that was Marley Sallegrini. Marley Saligrini, like I said, is is entrepreneurial energy behind the estate. And she's the one who really, want to continue to grow, for, you know, successive generations, her daughter's, namely, Carlotta and Katarina, and, and for generations beyond that because When you invest in that, when you're a farmer first and foremost, you really have to be generational in terms of your approach, and amortizing vineyards, and making things make sense. What does the name Alegrene on a label mean to consumers? In America? Yeah. Allegrini, what I would like it to mean to consumers, is, an estate that is a legacy. So it's it's a family. It's one of the most highly acclimated in the entire country, the most Traybee carries for any Amaroni, and Franco is the most highly awarded producer of Amaroni in the country. So I hope there's a quality, understanding that came comes with that legacy. So not only is it is it family, it's quality, but it's also, you know, estate produced. And and these these are people who really care deeply about, the land and the condition which they're leaving it in for the next generation. And if there was a final thing I would say about Alegrene. I I love the name. I think it's a great name for a producer because Aleggro, of course, you know, means joyous or happy, and and Aleggrini means little happy people, which I think is a wonderful wonderful image to have in one's head when drinking copious amounts of Italian wine. And, they're they're they're they are. They're they're really they're wonderful people, and that's why it's been so important for me to kind of work with this family for so long. They have a real spirit of hospitality, and you've been to the estate, and anybody who's ever had that has can talk about Marie Lisa, you know, giving one a tour when she's eight months pregnant at ten o'clock at night or cooking, you know, pasta, lalio, lalio at two in the morning for some guests because they're hungry, or even her father used to, you know, he was called the barrel spider because at any time, if day and night, people would show up in the estate, and he'd crawl up on those huge, big, lemonian cats and start pulling out wine for people to taste. I I really do think that they bring they bring a lot of joy, and that's that's one of the things that I I I just think is so wonderfully Italian, I guess. Yeah. I can I can attest to that? I remember once being at, Allegrini state, which is a former Roman domus, which I was like, how cool is that? And the last thing I remember was, du singing YMCA with a Chinese contingent. It was a gold wally. You're referring to Marie Lisa's party at Van Italy, which is, at Villa Latoria. It's a it's a fifteenth century estate. It's a jewel of the Italian Renaissance, an incredible piece of architecture, but it's really how the Allegrini family make it Allegrre that that brings life to the villa. And like you say, you know, she's done everything from, you know, flash mobs of the lyric Sopranos from the arena of Verona, the Verona opera company to Karaoke to Japanese monks playing in drums in in this incredible state, and and this party that she does is really her thank you to the wine world. Every year, she does it at Van Italy, and the Van Italy is for Italy where the entire world shows up. And and she's just such a fantastic representative, I think, of of what it is, you know, to be kind of Italian in the wine industry. And it's one of the things that's really Carried Marie Lisa, is that energy that enthusiasm that openness? So am I incorrect in saying it was an old Roman domus, an original Roman house? It's designed to look like one. And so Oh. It was built in the fifteenth century, and and it does. I mean, the the inner courtyard where, you know, where we were singing karaoke, that at the end of the day is is a replica. It actually looks a lot like atias House in Rome. If you remember the HBO series, it it has it's built with very kind of neoclassical design and, the inspiration was entirely the Roman domus, but it was fifteenth century. Okay. So we've got that corrected, and and now I'm disappointed. But, you know, four hundred years is pretty good or five hundred years. Let's talk a little bit about, the home, which is Velpola and the thirteen families of Ameroni. Can you tell me about that and what Hallagreenie's role is? So Marilisa was the first president of the Ameroni families, which I think today is called Lefamila Storrique, so the historical families. And it was this idea of kind of protecting the appalachian and trying to elevate quality. And that was something Franco was actually the vice president of the consortium of Valpolicella, which is, you know, the one legal body which regulates the rules for the DOC. And, he resigned that post because he kind of was in protest. And he, later, you know, we we declassified many of our single vineyards out of the Appalachian because of some technicalities that Franco felt very, very strongly about in terms of pushing quality forward. And and really, you know, fast forward, almost thirty years. The Amroni families was born or the Fumigastardike were born in order to kind of continue that legacy. So the idea that there would be, Ameroni would be a style of wine, which represented the best of an artisan producer's kind of stock as a and and not something that would be, you know, pushed out into supermarkets at a very low cost because like anything, you know, when you try grapes for ninety days, there's an artisan process. And I like to think of it almost like making a prosciutto or a parmigiana. Right? We all know that craft mix Parmesan. And if you've ever tried a twenty four month, you know, aged by Magiana Regiana, you know that those two products have very little to do with one another. You know. Right. There is baloney And then here's Cortrella. Right? Like, these are things that don't have a lot to do with it, no, one another at the end of the day. And that's really what Ameroni's trajectory can be and is, which is there is an industrially produced kind of sweet cheap version And then there is a Craftman's Artisan's version. And, that's what the Emeroni families were really about. The Farmy diosporica were really about trying to focus and protect and make sure that there was a clear definition of of really what Amaroni can be. Well, let's change the conversation and focus a little bit about, on premise in retail. You know, you're talking about these these wines, and I'm not just talking about the Amaroni, but in in pretty much the entire the state produced line are not necessarily what people in Europe would call supermarket wines, but it it's a very different marketplace that you guys are in and, developing than what a new to the US brand of an estate produced wine is. Can you talk about the US market and what are some of the hallmarks of it that, new to the US brand? Might be discovering that the the people in Alegrini, company know by experience. Yeah. And I'll I'll I'll preface this, Steven, you know, like I said, I had some wonderful I made it like, equipped at the beginning of the interview. I said I had wonderful mentors from a humanistic standpoint, perhaps, not so much from the professional. And and I would like to correct that statement. I've worked with great professionals, Marissa Allie Grini is one of them, but I'm just not a very high caliber professional, I feel, so I I've fallen in love with, the culture around Italian wine and and the culture of this family. And so that's why I continue to carry the same title that I have for the last fifteen years. It's because I really I love what I do, and and I think there's a story to be told. Over that time, Alec Grini Brand has grown, quite a bit. And so we do have a retail portion of our business, which, you know, we've been recognized with one of our wines six times in the top one hundred wines of the year from Spectator. That's something that's never really happened at a a wine that's twenty five bucks on the shelf in from any country. And so There is a retail, portion to our business now. What can I say is, for me and for the brand overall, I feel like our strength as Italian producers are our Italian restaurant tours? And I I really feel like, it's what energizes and what makes Italian wine timeless at the end at the end of the day is, is it's it's a very, very close link to cuisine. And when you when you're linking wine to cuisine in Italy, you're linking a tradition to history. And ultimately, you know, those are the things that that lead to, a rich life, I feel. It's a culture of the table. It's about bringing people together. And when when you add all of these elements together, you know, I'm not it's not like I figured this out. This is this was known three thousand years ago that, by Socrates before pronouncing upon anything, you had to take a big slug of wine and then pass it to your neighbor, and then you could speak. And so there's something about this this culture of the table, which I I think leads to to, you know, a rich life or it has for me. And so that's where I'm focused on. And we started working with the Gallo family, and, with San polo, the Trincaro family. These are the two largest, you know, wineries in the world. And, one of the things that really attracted us to them was their agricultural roots. So the fact that they are generationally planning as well for their companies, and that's really important because, like I say, that's how that's how we view things. And the other thing is that they've started these divisions, wanting this his colt Maiseau and or lux wines, and it's really focused on taking care of the on premise. And so allowing people to trial and allowing our wines to be part of that experience, which is really around the table. And Trincaro is doing the same. They're they started they have something called the Heritage Wine Division. And, there are people that are totally on board with this thesis that wine and food and history are also closely interlinked and ultimately, you know, can can lead to a very enriching existence. And that's why we're working with, the importers that we do because they have the same agricultural, background. And and now they have these divisions, which are which are really focused on where I wanna be focusing our business, which is beyond premise. Italian wine podcast. If you think you love wine as much as we do, then give us a like and a follow anywhere you get your pods. Excellent. I I one of the lines I came up with was thinking about Italian politics and in in Italy, nothing works. But everything works out. And and that's kind of been my experience whenever I'm in Italy. Maybe the restaurant you wanna go to isn't open, but the one next door turns out to be fabulous and some very interesting people come by and you you end up having the most wonderful time. I also think it's the reason, and I do believe this is true that gelato tastes better in Italy, just like bagels taste better in New York. There's something about it, whether it's the water or the ambiance or some metaphysical thing. I don't know. But at at the end of the day, yeah, it's, La Dolce. Right? I mean And and and when it, like, you cannot understand Limrozco unless you've had it with mortadella and Yoko Frito in in some parmigiana. Like, the wine's reason for being, it doesn't really make a ton of sense unless you put it within that context. And so that's what happens so frequently when you're in Italy is that local wine, local foods, millennia of kind of, tradition. They it comes together in such an incredible way. So the more that we can be replicating those experiences, the more that we can share those experiences with, people, you know, like, kids from the Napa Valley, the more likely that they'll, end up working in Italian wine north of their life. Okay. So we've been talking about Allegrini, and, obviously, that's important for both of us for a variety of reasons. But let's turn it over a little bit to, Robin Shea, You're the export manager. What's your mission and goals and motivation? Given that the podium that Allegrini has in the wine world, both in Italy and and here in the US, what are your goals for the brand and goals for yourself? I and the way I phrased it sometimes is, what do you wanna be when you grow up? Yeah. It's a tough, you know, I I kinda, I guess, in that regard, I've never grown up. And, another way of looking at it, I grew up fifteen years ago and haven't progressed since. So, I don't I don't look at it that way. I I don't like that one at all. I'm a I'm an expert manager, and and, like I say, that's sometimes a very lofty title for me because I I really follow this this cold inside of me. Right? It's it's the eye it's the idea that I think that there is, something that I discovered in Italy. And I love sharing that with people. And, the allegrani family represents a lot of those values. And, you know, I I continue to to have that be central to, you know, when I talk about the wines, I'm I'm sharing my experience of the wines, but also my experience of the culture. And, and and and how to apply that. Sometimes in a business context, and sometimes on a personal context. You know, what would my goal for the brand be? My my goal for the brand is to continue to place these wines in the context, which I feel in which they excel. So, around the table with excellent food. And food, which is, which is thoughtfully been sourced, produced. Much as our wines are thoughtfully sourced and produced. And in Italy, they say when you're pairing something, and that means what's good is good, what's good, which sounds really stupid, but is when you're talking about, sourcing and care and artisanship, I I feel like they do make sense. I mean, I just paired last, like I was saying before this interview, Arkansas. I I was in Mexico, and I paired Palazzo Latore, which is our rapasso style wine with a mollay, made an octopus mollay, in Los Cabos. And it blew my mind, but, you know, the chef is, like, one of the best chef in in, this guy, Enrique Rivera. He's one of the greatest chefs in Mexico, and that pairing blew my mind. And, And so I really think there is something to be said for me in finding those moments of marriage of quality and then and then letting the magic happen. Interesting. I I and I asked this question of people not on the podcast, but just in personal conversation, what was your what what was the moment this wine thing kinda came over you? And in my case, it was came home from New York one one night. I was tired. It was a hot day. My wife had made lamb chops, and I opened a bottle happen to have a bottle of, burgundy won't go into the detail of what. But it was magic. And it was like, okay, everybody stop talking. I want to enjoy this experience. What was your moment when, you realized that wine was gonna be your future? Oh, man. Obviously, you're closer to it having been in in Napa. We, you know, we don't Yeah. See, that's the thing. I kinda grew up with it around, but I I do remember my mom took me to Smith and Walensky in New York when I was sixteen. Well, I was fourteen years old. And she ordered the Matanzas Creek shard. I remember it. And I got to have a glass. And they were so cool about us. Fourteen years old. I got to have a glass with you know, at Smith and Walensky. And it was the first time, you know, you know, the oak and the wine, and it was a long time ago, Steven. Yeah. So it's thirty years ago. And I remember being like, whoa, this is really excellent. And, you know, you got butter and the lobster on the table, like, hell, yeah. That's the that's the sauce right there. You know, I mean, the wine saying, and I remember that was and I had grown up, in the, you know, California and, of course, being exposed to quality, but it was that food and wine. It was that moment that brought me together. And then, I really got involved in production. I made wine for a number of years, and I was really, but not very good at that. And, I remember Frifco Alegrene said to me, You know, Robin, your English is better than your wine making, so you should consider a career in the export department. That's great. And so he said, you go work for my sister or so. So yeah. And, and but, I've had just so many magical experiences in Italy, pairing food and wine, and and the, you know, understanding that there absolutely is an appropriate moment for, you know, a Lambrusco. And it's the only wine that you'd ever wanna drink at that particular point in time. There's some great examples of people who have done really cool stuff with Lambrusco. And, you know, I looked at the work that Oscar Fuddy Nancy's doing at Italy. You know, even, you know, the, you know, the bastianich and batali in their day, and and and there are so many other restaurant tours that I've met that have, you know, taken to Lambrusco, and and just kinda shaking it up, right, and and and kind of push it everyone in a while and do so in context and and, yeah, in the end, I don't know if it's, revitalized the category or, of lebrusco's, but, but for me, when I have a mortadella, and a New York of Frito and parmigiano. Like, it's the only one. You could be offering me Cruperolo. No. I wanna Lambrisco. Alright. Well, now I got that in my mind. That's that's what that's what I'm gonna work with. But, like, that raises an issue. I'm an old guy, Baby Boomer. We have there's this legacy of bad wines of, bolas, Swave, and sweet, fizzy, sweet, Lambrusco. That wasn't even Lambrusco. And the everybody talks about, well, those categories have been poisoned or damaged from all that. Why do those things have any salients in today's world, which is, like, two to three generations distant from that in the nineteen seventies. You make a great point. It it's one that I hear all the time when I hear people saying, oh, you know, it's not to swab, it used to be, and and Like you say, that statement doesn't make sense for, you know, the grand majority of the wine consuming market. Right? They have no reference of what Swave used to be or Kianti when it was sold in the fiasco when the and the if there's no reference point. But Right. Why I think it's so important to remember, you know, or and to talk about that is is that, you know, like you say, washed out, sweet, fizzy, like, all of these things come to an end. And it's because they're fundamental shortcuts, you know, they're things which aren't good for you as a as as a person, as a human, you know, too much sugar or too, you know, and they're things which have been produced in a way that has left some of the artists in ship and some of that some of that magic in the process, which is Italian. And so, the same way that baloney forgot about what mortadella was or, you know, cooked pan has nothing you know, it's not prosciutto gold. You know, I mean, it's just different. And that's why driving back to really quality product, artisan product, and finding that those partners for our wines out there in the market is is my mission. Cool. Okay. I like to end my interviews with, with a question out of all of the things that we just talked about. What's the big takeaway for listeners and recognize that most of the people who do listen are are from the trade? What what's the one practical thing they heard that they can put to use immediately? From of what we discussed. It it's it's a lofty statement for me to kind of prognosticate about, you know, what what people are gonna I can tell you what what I try to do, which is I try to really continue to bring what excites and energizes me. And some people always say it's the story that sells the wine. And I I think that the story is important. But what's super important to me since I came from a production background and making wine and and I've had this epiphany with Italian culture and and food. Is it you can actually, you know, as I say, you can, you can prove verify it is the word. You can verify the story when you put it together with artists and product that's that's local in its specialization like our wines are. And so, you know, when you put an amorone with a parmigiano regiano, you know, when you put, San Giovanni, is it from Montancino, from our San Polo. If you put the Rosalie Montancino with a ragu di conilio. It's like, you know, blows your mind, you know, the super tuscans with with steak, you know, classic porterhouse. That was rabbit sauce. Right? Yeah. Rabbit sauce. Rapid sauce. Yeah. I know. I I when you say rabbit sauce, some people get a It doesn't sound nice. It doesn't sound like I'm a nice person. One of my favorite dishes that he truly on twenty sixth Street in New York, and I didn't know it was rabbit. Yeah. Yeah. Well, there you go. You know, in Italy, they have to leave the head on the rabbit. Still, in order when you purchase it so that you can actually see that it has the two incisors, the front teeth, because, a rabbit looks very similar to a cat, and that's a hangover from World War two so that cats couldn't be sold as rabbits in the butcher. Oh my god. I wish you hadn't have shared that with me. So when you buy a rabbit, Italy, the head has to still be on. And, I won't get even to what the people of Vincense, are famous for. But, you know, it's it's part of that food and and wine culture that just I I love it. And so stay close to what energizes you and maybe it is the oak in the wine, you know, far be it for me to say. But if you're selling Italian wine, you know, a good healthy dose of Italian culinary culture, and and in food culture and history and art. I mean, that's the stuff. That's the interesting stories, in my opinion. And and, unfortunately, I still I don't watch soccer, and it's one of the things that really lacks in my sales pitches. I have no idea what Milan or Yventas did last week. But, you know, I get by because, because I'm I'm really enthusiastic about, and I'm really interested in about, you know, what our partners are doing out there. Wow. So, if people wanna reach out to you, where can they find more information on Alegrene? And if they want to do what, connect with Rob and Shay, how would they reach you? So, yeah, you know, allagrini is, of course, our website, you know, w w w dot allagrini dot I t. For the hospitality, if you ever wanna visit that incredible villa delatorre that fifteenth century villa, we were talking about. There are eleven rooms to BNB, and that is w w w villa de la Torre, altogether dot it. And you can go directly to the website there. Saint polo. Is it it it is beautiful, a state of Moluccino. We also have hospitality facilities there. And that's, poggio san polo dot com. And, in Buldhury, poggio Altisoro. Which is, the estate Marissa founded, with her daughters in in Bulgaria and her eldest brother Walter. That's w w w poujo Altisoro dot I t. Pojo is p o g g I o, poujo al Tisoro. And, she's just completing the hospitality facility there. Major benefit I am Bolgari is, there's a fantastic pool at that estate. And there's kind of a dunking pool in Montocino as well, but when the Bolgari guesthouse gets finished, you know, kind of like our wines, these aren't hotels. Right? These are little B and B's, you know, maybe that's even a stretch. They're just guest houses. You know, it's anyways, from five to eleven rooms for you to come and stay. We can book them out to you. You know, you'll be given a key almost there B and B style. But, man, you know, when you dig into these local little jewels, you know, the the food of Montecino, the the incredible shellfish and and seafare of Bulgaria with those super tuscan wines, and then, you know, the cheeses and the mountain fair, and, of course, you know, Lorena de Verona. Right? Come in the summer and go and see an overseas and then in downtown verona. Yeah. I that's one thing. It's on my bucket list. I've been to the arena and been to a couple of parties in the arena, but I haven't seen an opera there yet. It seemed to always come in the fall, not in the summer. Well, Marlisa, she sits on the board of the arena. She sits on the board of a number of trade associations, and, and kind of she's she was just nominated as a cavallero de La Vora. So she was just basically knighted by the president of the Italian Republic because she is this incredible ambassador to all that is that is Italian. And, it's why I, you know, I love love her for it, and, you know, we'll continue to kind of be her prophet as long as as she'll have me and, you know, come and stay at our states or come hook up with us sometime and, and, you know, live leave it how the Ali Greeni, show it. And I think it's it's a great way to get to know the country. I love it. So we're speaking this week with Robin Shea, the export manager, or director of, Alagini. And, it was a very interesting conversation. I wanna thank you for your time. It's always fun talking with you, Robin. And for our listeners, tune in next week, and we'll have another interesting guest on get US market ready with Italian wine people. Thank you again, Robin. Thank you, Steven. Oh, it's great to chat. We hope you enjoyed today's episode brought to you by the wine to wine business forum twenty twenty two. This year, we'll mark the ninth edition of the forum to be held on November seventh and eighth twenty twenty two in verona Italy. Remember tickets are on sale now. So for more information, please visit us at wine to wine dot net. Hi, guys. I'm Joy Livingston, and I am the producer of the Italian wine podcast. Thank you for listening. We are the only wine podcast that has been doing a daily show since the pandemic began. This is a labor of love and we are committed to bringing you free content every day. Of course, this takes time and effort not to mention the cost of equipment, production, and editing. We would be grateful for your donations, suggestions, requests and ideas. 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