Ep. 1133 Emilia Marinig | Get US Market Ready With Italian Wine People

Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. This episode has been brought to you by the wine to wine business forum twenty twenty two. This year, we'll mark the ninth edition of the forum to be held on November seventh and eighth of twenty twenty two in Verona Italy. This year will be an exclusively in person edition. The main theme of the event will be all around wine communication. Tickets are on sale now. So for more information, please visit us at wine to wine dot net. Thanks for tuning in to Get US Market Ready with Italian wine people on the Italian wine podcast. I'm Steve Ray, your host. And this podcast features interviews with the people actually making a difference in the Italian wine market in America, their experiences, challenges, and personal stories. And I'll be adding a practical focus to the conversation based on my thirty years in the business. So if you're interested in not just learning how, but also how else, then this bond is for you. Hello, and welcome to this week's edition of Get US Market Ready with Italian wine people on the Italian wine podcast. I'm Steve Ray, your host, and my guest this week is Amelia Maranick of, Cortia Bella, in, tuscany, can't update, and, Emilia. Welcome to the show. Hello, Steve. Hello, everyone. Thanks a lot for having me. It's been a challenge getting together. I think we've been trying to set this up for a couple of months, but I'm really happy to, to have you on the show. And talk about a winery that I think is is pretty definitive for the region. So why don't you give us a a brief background on you and your career in the wine industry? And, then we'll get to Cortibel. Right. So it's essentially how much time do I have. So I actually started working in this industry about twenty years ago. And I think I started as, many of us did just because I was very interested in wine, and I don't come from a wine. Family or anything. I come from one region which is really, and I always like to talk about that. But, you know, I got interested in wine. I didn't think back then I could make a professional of it. So I studied marketing instead. So I went for marketing degree and, After that, I actually realized that, you know, the one could actually give me work, you know, could be something that I could do not only for pleasure, but, you know, also, as a business venture, I actually started working as an expert manager for a winery informally. And, after a while, well, I kind of, you know, I stepped up a little bit, and I was in charge of Asian markets and business development in Asia. And after that, you know, it was step by step. I actually integrated more of a marketing role, more of marketing responsibility into the role, and then Eventually, when I'm moving in the UK, yes, they're working for an distributor, a wine distributor based in London, and that's how I met Portabella, because we were the importers and distributors of Portabella in the UK, and actually the company still. The sole distributor of Patricia. Okay? So after a few years of doing that, you know, Portabella popped the question, like they were looking for someone to take over their marketing and communication and I think I left some good memories, of the time I was working for the distributor and eventually they offered me a position, and so I started. So you moved from London to, backdate? That was quite a recent move because I kind of got stuck in the middle during the pandemic was supposed to move to Italy a little bit earlier than what I did in reality. So I just moved this year back to Italy after fourteen years in, almost in the UK. So Well, maybe we'll touch on that at the end of that, that experience is like. But, let's focus on, the winery now. Can you give us, a brief profile of Gucci Bella size, what defines it? So I think that, for people in one business, Cortabela, it's quite amazing that you associate with, sustainability and ecological agriculture and agriculture. Because, we started, I mean, if I compare our history, actually, history, Portabella with some of our neighbors who have been anticlimactic for, like, sixteen generation or something like that, we are very big. You know, we always make jokes about the fact that we don't have eight surnames and we don't own a hassle, you know. So that gives you gives you indication of, what you are in Canada, is it gonna say. So we started very recently compared to that because we started in nineteen seventy four as an official year of foundation. And the ownership is actually slot from Tuscany. So it's a family that came from Milan Media. So Gizette Castillo is the founder of Portabella, and extremely wealthy, and, I'm gonna say very well connected businessman that invested into wine. And the reason why I invested into, you know, Kentucky classic or into building a wine that we planted classical was because it was a big, huge, I would say, wine lover and collector, private collector. And he was especially key in a home burgundy, and that's, kind of a reference and an inspiration for much of the things that we do at Cortovala. But as I was telling in the beginning, probably the thing that, we stand out the most, actually, our winemaking practices, our multicultural and winemaking practices, because we became organic quite early on, again, it's probably fair to say the end of the 80s. When there wasn't a certification yet for agriculture. But we're the first protocols, on the European level about, organic farming, for example. So our stands, since those years, we actually limit the impact and the use of, for example, chemicals or any, you know, any substances that were used and are still used in conventional agriculture. So I think it's fair to say again that we were one of the first wineries to do so. Doscan and, in Italy as well. In twenty in to the year two thousand, sorry, came the conversion to Biodynamics. And we've been strictly by the ninth for about ten years. And the latest biggest change that we have introduced at Portabella as the plant based, conversion. So Portabella is one hundred percent vegan. So not only, you know, when it comes to, winemaking practices. So obviously, we don't choose any any of my products, throughout winemaking. We also do not use any animal based product in the vineyard. So no menu, no preparations, nothing like such. And I think that's kind of like what really distinguishes us from English. So it's this combination of different practices and, philosophies that we apply in, both in the leaners and in the cellar. Minimal intervention is a good word. Also, to describe what we do. Okay. Give us a sense of the, the, the brands that you, you have and the relative, pricing in the US. So, okay, I'll call you, I mean, in the US, it's quite well spread out, I would say, from, for example, our best selling one in terms of numbers is Mondrana, which I see retails for just below the twenty dollars mark on the shelf. And then we go up to, obviously, our software engines, which includes our super toaster, like Amatino, and Batar, which is probably the wine that, you know, that brings the culture and they will go for hundreds dollars, I guess. Your importer in the US is Maison Mark and domain, MMD, as you call it. Give us a history of that, and, what role they play I have a couple of specific questions about it, but just give us a perspective on why is on market domain and, your thoughts on them as an important. Obviously, we are very, very active to, to be represented and supported by by an MD. In the US, which I think it's one of the greatest names in, in life of the US. And our conversion is pretty, pretty steady. We are, of course, part of a quite a large portfolio of brands. Which includes some of the best Italian brands. Like, for example, Pachesa, it's one of our, say, our friends from the portfolio, and, of course, all of the the brands that naturally belong to one of the, the own states. So It's a it's a great portfolio. It's, obviously, are looking probably some of the most premium brands that are distributed there. And, we are very steady in terms of, both our positioning. And, our overall sales. We, let's say, year after year, year on year, we are quite, quite in a stable position, I would say. For us, consider that for us, the US is the number one market. In terms of volume. And I think it's still in terms of value, but even though it's in the series, you know, it's it's advancing very fast for us. K. How long have you been with, MMT? I think it's probably over ten years now because now it's going to go into about ten years, something like that. One of the others that, they import is Libya Faluga. And I'm Yeah. Very familiar with that brand. As very close to home for me, leave a faluga as well. Well, I was gonna say there's the Freoli connection, and, I know Andrea faluga, and, I have a funny, but off color story, which, unfortunately, I can't say over the air, but, anybody who meets me in person, I'll tell you that story and I guarantee you will laugh. But I think the quality of the brands that are in their portfolio are really, really significant. I mean, I just name a few of them, you know, I'm I'm gonna apologize to all French nationals because my French is pretty bad. I think it's broader. But again, I do apologize for the bad pronunciation as well as, you know, their us. And, I mean, they're all great friends, I have to say. So, we can only be pleased, of course, the true selves and forgetting about the probably the main one, but, you know Yeah. I'm I'm looking at the list and, you know, Bob wouldn't. Great. Cogastronol, a dominance in the US. You think of some of the terms and, imagine, I mean, and think also about the big brands that they carry. But, you know, you have they go with Italy. I think it's very well represented as well. Office in Portabella. You named a few. Castillo is another one. And then you look at the California operations and, you know, In Escilling from Canada and the House wines. It's great to be in great company. And I think that for us, it's very important to work with such a partner in a large market as as the US because they understand very well what it means to carry a brand that you know, delivers quality, delivers prestige, but also it needs to be strengthened in a certain way. And by strengthening, I really really fear to, you know, especially positioning. So fortunately, even though with, once like Mon Brown, I would try to get to the everyday consumers and to be, you know, larger retailers as well. Think that most of Fortabella wines find their own, you know, natural fit in in restaurants, especially the others of the restaurant trade. That was gonna be one of my questions. So speaking of that, You've been watching the US market for a long time. Your English is great. What are the changes addressing in the US market, particularly in terms of how consumers find out about mine and and and the role overall of communications? One of the new tools that actually I'll be giving a presentation on it, line to line in, Corona in November is on podcast. Obviously, we're on a podcast now. Are you guys doing anything with podcasting? So we we kind of try to to get into that, discussing through the pandemic So both podcasting and, you know, video interviews or, you know, online testing, you know, all of these type of activities, but unfortunately, we don't have much resources that we can putting that in that side of your, of communications. We're very happy to participate into interviews, for example. So we try to do that as much as we can. We always kind of try to make ourself more missionable, even though it might take a little bit of time. But eventually, you know, we we're always keen on, on this. I think that podcasting is a very, I mean, it's a serious thing to do. I mean, meaning that it takes, your experience, it takes the right skills to do that. It takes also the right type of, presence, if you like. So I'm not sure if I start doing podcast, you know, many people are gonna turn back, to be honest. Just listen to me talking about Cortabella, and, maybe I'm wrong, but In general, we notice that it's better to do these type of things with, professional, like yourself, for example, or others that we have encountered, you know, globally. You know, I will friend, who's based in, in Freoy, by chance, based in Freoyogi that is doing a podcasting tour really are glad, but, and it's always a pleasure to support you. You know, I'm, I'm a big listener, for example, of Italian wine podcast. I, I don't think I have missed one since the beginning, you know, but to do it ourselves, I think I think we're just not, you know, prepared enough to do that in a way. Yeah. And I I don't think it's warranted for an individual brand. I mean, I'm I'm still struggling. I'm I'm trying to put this presentation together and trying to figure out what what really, what role does podcasting play. And I think it's it's kind of an evolution of what used to be wine magazines, printed magazines. The difference being, obviously, this is an interview format, and it's a conversation as opposed to just, an article or somebody kind of of interviewing somebody and then writing a piece out of it. I think that honestly speaking, you are looking at, you know, at at least three good, let's say three good points about protesting. First of all, it's seriously giving a voice because, you know, you might read an interview. You might read about someone, and, it's very much your perspective as a reader. Let's say. But when you hear someone, speaking, talking. You can hear a tone of voice. You can understand, you know, much more about the person and, well, talking about brands, also the brands they represent. I feel that that carries a value, which is a much more personal after you and she liked it. Yeah. That and I think that's my point about conversations. So, one of the points I'm going to make is that, the web is all about, conversations, markets, our conversations, and we have to speak like humans, not the way I used to write press releases. I mean, this conversation is getting more into details with you giving your own personal experience rather than it going through me as a filter. And I I think that's significant. I look at it as much more journalism than promotional. But take it the next step. You had mentioned earlier, in a conversation we had, that you have an interest in influencers in terms of trade leverage. Obviously, where Jamela has, a lot of, screen cred in the US. You have, history of presence in the US, great, brand resonance with consumers. What are you guys doing from the point of view of trade leverage now that's different than say before COVID. Italian wine podcast. If you think you love wine as much as we do, then give us a like and a follow anywhere you get your pods. So, I I think that if you are thinking specifically about the role of influence, for example, which has been, like, one of the buzz words in marketing recently, let's say. I think, you know, let's say, when I when I joined Portugal, let's just just take a step there. I think there was very much the years when the influencers start making an appearance. And when brands started to understand how actually to use influencers to their own advantage. Always been quite, by nature, I think, a quite, careful person. So I never get very excited at first. So it takes me a little bit of time to excite me. So I always ask myself what is your objective? So let's let's talk about brand resonance, for example. If my objective would be brand resonance, is it fair? Is it is it good? Is it good idea to put my money with, let's say, an influencer that has forty thousand followers or none a thousand followers, but that name is just standing in front of a camera, very, making, like, very nice videos and very funny videos, and showing my bottle around. Is that gonna seriously generate an uplift in both sales and the positioning of my wife? My answer is, I don't think so. But, supposedly, that's, for example, I'm rebranding or I'm launching a new product. And I want this product to be seen by as many persons as possible, then that would make a lot of sense. And I'm just talking about traditional traditional influencer. So, seriously, the one that, you know, spear the bottom, the the glasses around and show amazing pictures of amazing videos, but any videos look really the same from afar and stuff like that. I'm not sure that brings value to to my business, especially So then I ask myself what are we are what are really influencers in the wine trade? My answer is people that can help you move the wine in terms of like, again, moving up This is my positioning or broadly expanding, and this is my turnover. And I ultimately think is that people that have leveraged in this industry. And that could be anyone from a journalist maybe not a traditional journalist, but someone that writes about wines or someone that talks about wines, why not? And well, that could be someone that has been working in the industry for twenty years and has been working in the best, you know, Just making an example, best restaurants in New York as a song or, out of buying or a, beverage, food and beverage manager. So, you know, in working long career, he has, a reputation is trusted by his peers, but also, you know, he helps the trade grow in, in experience and, in knowledge. So these are for me the great influencer. And I'm we are talking about the US market in this conversation that we are having, but I think that's very much applies in many of the mature, mature markets. Sorry. So I consider the US to be quite mature as I will consider the UK, for example, where, you know, you have quite a good knowledge on an average so that you can tell your wife from your head and your, probably, your county from your, from your opinion of religion. So I think That's what really, you know, that was my answer when, as I said, three years ago, I started looking at, you know, social media and digital media for Cortriela. Because everyone wants to work with Cortriela. That's a different. There's an, also, another effect. Right. So talk more about that. What kind of digital things are you are you guys doing? Can you speak about one or two initiatives? Absolutely. First of all, just before comments started, we had this great idea of starting a wine club and, let's say, we're starting getting, you know, putting our lines down on, email marketing. So we have this email marketing program that, you know, is basically a newsletter that alternates news from Portabella with, you know, special offers and, special releases of, of some of our economic wines. And that goes out currently for a few, more than a few hundreds of people. And the US, gonna be surprised to hear that. In terms of demographics, is the number one market for human marketing from purchase data. I I would believe that. Even don't get me wrong. It doesn't translate improve the number of sales that we do, because probably we sell more to, European based customers rather than US based customer. But a lot of people in the US sign up with the newsletter They like to be engaged with the brand. They like to know what's going on. Then they might, you know, go out to the, their local shop or to the local restaurants and buy, put, and find putabella there. I'm not saying that we are shipping. Or ask for it if it's not there. Exactly. So that's abs absolutely. It's it's a really good way to actually get in touch with your customer base. We are not very invasive because also you you see the digital marketing operations here. The one that is actually handling that with the aid of, graphic designer and another person that, everyone with a more technical side of things. But, you know, it's more operations, and, we're not that invasive as a way because as I was all staying here. So it's not a weekly newsletter. We try to communicate when there is something that is worth communicating as well as when we are in a, you know, close to the point of, you know, a new wine release or we are about to release, you know, a our case of Martina or Matar or something like that. And I think that the customers really appreciate that. They appreciate it because it's timely. It's it's very direct communications. You know, it comes from us. It's a way as I said to, to keep in touch. Most of the people that sign up for the newsletter are actually people that have been a course of that. They visit us. I mean, we obviously come from an area which is kind of classical where where you know, nowadays in September, we are flooded with American chairs. They move, they drive around, they come up to see us, you know, they, they like to explore the territory, and they're very keen on signing up. So I would say to give you a comparison, if I approach an Italian person or Italian consumer. I said, would you like to sign up for my newsletter? Chances are they gonna say, maybe no, maybe you better think about it. I'll let you know, you know, US people are actually very adamant to it. I see that they are used to the concept of wine club and direct sales because you've done a hell of a job, great job, especially Napa, creating these type of experiences for consumers. So you're naturally more in clean and less suspicious, you know, when they sign up. I I think that's really well stated. I I think, and that's really important. So but let me jump to the fundamental question Okay. So somebody's been to the winery. Great. You captured their email address. Great. You turn them from someone who is aware of the brand all the way into someone who's an evangelist for the brand. Wonderful as well. You have some of these wines. What if they live in, North Dakota? How do you get the wines to somebody from Walgreens in the US? And that's the biggest, not problem because, I would say challenge depending where obviously this person is located in the US, the different regulation that regulates the distribution of wine. And also, you know, we're talking about not only restrictions in terms of what you can do and you cannot do, but also that For example, delivery times, also vary a lot from country to country. And then again, because we trust our distributors very much. So MMD is anyway our operational item if you like in the US. We always try to figure out a way or, you know, make a suggestion. Like, we you can find out why these these things in there. And if that's not possible, we, you know, we collaborate with, local courier. The more or less works with, everyone in county. We go to this, I'll do it. Are you traveling in county or local in the US you're talking about, the local courier. We always, we also always have to, you know, to, sorry. I'm talking about the local career in County because they are the ones that actually end up they deliver it from us. It's a little bit of a strange system because as a priority, I cannot ship directly to the US that will not be allowed by costumes, by, you know, the regulation and stuff like that. So the local courier does the shipping for us. It's a very bizarre way to to do that. It's totally legal, by the way, even if we are in Italy, you know, there's tendency. Let's say Italy is always a tendency of finding a way. There's a if there's a will, there's a way it should be the motto of daniels, I think. You know what I mean? So the way that we worked is actually, so you come to SIPochabella, for example. Let's talk about the physical visit. You taste the wine, you like the wine, you want them to have them shipped back to the US. You basically pay the wine to Portabella. And we made sure that the price, the consumers pay at Portabella is not gonna, you know, screw up the solution channel. I have bad news for the people that drive up the profitability by our wise. You're not really saving much money, but the experience is great. But so you you obviously you buy what would be the equivalent of retail price in Italy. And that's the money goes straight to Cortro. Obviously, you know, invoice and it's Contrino and everything else. And then you fill out a form that is provided by the courier And it's almost like you are shipping the wines to yourself. So it's the American client that fills in the form with their own, you know, data. The form goes to the courier and it's the courier that emails, for example, they pay by link directly to the client. So we don't get paid for the delivery of the wine. We have very little control on the delivery, and that's unfortunately is a problem, especially nowadays, which you have like longer delivery terms and, you know, becoming, a little bit more difficult to ship around the world, I think, in general terms. So we don't have control on that. I can only mail you, you know, the tracking number, but or help you to to see where you finalize, but it's very much the courier handling the shipment. And that's a big limitation. Yeah. And that's primarily for people who visited the library. What I'm what I would like to know more about is how you're handling e commerce the rank and file of American consumers who may find it. It's basically the same thing. By instead of ending you the form, I pass your details to the courier, and the courier is sending you a pay by email and a fee. Okay. So it's not certainly being managed by Maison Mark and domain through their e commerce solutions and distributions. Wow. But don't get me wrong. Obviously, this is a scenario that we have when we're facing all markets. Because, you know, what you are, you are telling me is basically why don't isn't it, you know, creating a little bit of a damage to an Indian way, not a damage, but it's preventing them from doing some sales. And anyone, any market could actually ask the same thing. But we are very careful about how we send the wines and by how I mean how much we send for. So, again, I'm not sure that it's actually cheaper to buy from here and from our e commerce. If you come team or you're gonna spend in terms of communities, so that's a very important thing. And also, you know, we choose to release very specific things via our e commerce and our wine cloud. So you obviously, if you go on the Cortabella web shop, you see certain references, and that's usually the current vintages. That we display that we put there on display. And, again, these are the price that you probably pay for if you go to a local, you know, to an annotate, but this is the tip of the iceberg for us. Because how I really deliver value to my clients via, you know, email marketing and, online sales is by releasing the special offers that we do on, you know, almost regular basis, things that they cannot find on the market or that, you know, they'll find this very rare and let's say, I'm talking about that vintages, for example. So are you available on things like wine dot com, drizzly, is your wine? Are you on wine searcher? Yes. We are. I mean, they are. Perhaps not the full range, because obviously that's very much as we were seeing depending on the positioning of each, of each wine and of which, you know, reference. But especially for Mungran and Canti Glass. Those are the two references that you are most likely to encounter there. And then, obviously, we work with the traditional, brick and mortar, you know, shops very well, because I don't think without doing it without the other, by the way. So You talked a little bit about social media and getting closer to your consumers. I mean, we're talking about the the impact of line influencers, but what kind of social media programs are you running? And do you run that from Italy, or is that something that your importer and distributors manage for you in Europe? So everything we do in terms of communication and marketing, but runs by by me, I would say, but it also starts from here and is handled by us directly. So if, you know, you should obviously decide every calendar or activities, and let's include also the session, the, the external calendar and the, things that we're gonna do with activities. We're gonna do social media wise. And then, obviously, we benefit from what our distributors of our partners worldwide do. But in terms of social media communications, we decide on the end of that. It's almost the sort of like, Okay. So what platforms are you working with? Mainly for us, Instagram is the biggest, not the biggest in terms of, followers, but in terms of with the interactions and, you know, the the type of, exposure that we have. Facebook, I think, is still for us leaning in terms of numbers, but is going down. Actually, it's not going down. It's being stable and Instagram there for us the the most part. Also, because I think that we, you know, We put a lot of emphasis at Cortabella on how things look like. So, of course, our number one priority is to make the best one as possible, but also we present them in a certain way. And I think that the visual impact that Instagram offers fits us very well. We are not on any of the younger type of customer. I say younger, to talk. Yeah. Again, I feel that we're also very traditional in the way that we portray ourselves in the brain. So I would, I would say that Instagram for us is the main social media channel. And then, well, we do a head of the job to on our website as well in terms of keeping, you know, our, you know, the copywriting is a big part of what we do at Portabella as well as, you know, keeping the information up to date. So I think for us, there's a three main digital channels, the website the, the newsletters and, the Instagram. Okay. One last thing that, you had mentioned, and, I was curious about we didn't really talk about it, in our initial conversation about a guest taster program. Could you explain that? Yeah. So it's actually a program that we started in Italy at the beginning, you know, well, across, let's say, twenty twenty. So two thousand twenty one, twenty twenty two. It's basically we got in touch with, an influencer in Italy. I think that she she's proud to the Google name influencer, just Simone Jiri, And, we kind of, up to the point, actually, let me say, up to the point. So, you know, yeah, up to the point, sorry. We didn't really have tasty notes at Portiavela. We never believed in every tasty notes. Because we always give the opportunity to people that buy our wines, who taste our wines, and so on. So forth, to tell us, you know, or to tell themself, oh, yeah, this, you know, looks like this, mess like that, and this, like, we never like to actually put it, you know, as a victim. For some company, you know, might like to do that, but we never, we never believed that was worthwhile. And then, you know, we kind of met, Simone, and, we were very keen on the way that she actually taste the one. It evaluates the one. She's, an eyes to someone here, and she has all, you know, actually the the technical skills to do a proper evaluation. So we kind of said, like, hey, Why don't you write the tasting notes for us? So why don't you act out our guest taster? I'd have some good tasters and the winery, including obviously our waymaker, our, you know, global sales director and much of my colleagues to be honest with you. But we wanted also to have an outside voice because, again, I can give you indication about how this wine is gonna feel and how this wine is gonna taste, but I think it always gives a different angle if someone else does this. So we kind of done that for a few months with Simone. And I'm very much looking to export that concept. Because obviously, you know, I'm looking at the global, global stage. I would very much like to engage with someone whose UK, their US based, sorry, for the first year, and then looking at some I can I've I've tried to think it as a traveling role, but find, you know, every year, finding someone that can be a good advocate for personality, a good, you know, good, and, hey, he has to be someone that has mixed experience, the technical skills to do that. So that's, again, that's a very important thing for us. He has to be some debt as, as I said, did experience the, the leverage as well. Because I've always deserved that. We'd serve that as a brand. One of the things I'd like to do when I end the conversation is is talk about what's the big takeaway. We've touched on them. Touched on a whole bunch of different subjects. A lot of it is is new even though you and I have have talked a couple of times before. What's the big takeaway for somebody in the trade who would be listening to this conversation that they could put to use immediately? Either from things that you've talked about that you guys are doing that they could copy or revise or, something new about the brand that you think can make a difference, to the brand sales in the US. What's the big takeaway? I think that if especially if we are talking to, you know, talking about direct to consumer type of communication, the number one thing that you need to make sure of is that you are relevant to the people who talk to, so you need to understand very well who's your audience. You cannot talk to everyone, or better. You can talk to everyone, but not everyone is going to be interested. So there's not going to be value in reaching a medium in toll. If out of these million people only five respond to your message. And by respond, a dumbing answer, but they respond in an emotional, in a personal way. So it's very important that you understand with your with your target, and that your communication is always relevant on to the target. So it might be worth for a brand to be on TikTok might not be. It might be more important for you, you know, to have a website that is functional to your trade partners, for example, rather than plenty of, nice features and nice buzzwords. It's always about, you know, delivering, and that's not just me saying is the marketing, you know, science that says that, deliver the right message with the right people. That's through the right way is the right means, let's say. So shoe you can choose as well as a brand. It's not because social media are big for the majority of people that she need to be big on social media to be successful to as a communicator or as a brand. You have to choose what to do and, you know, do that well. We've come to the end of our session today. So a big thank you to Emilia Meredith. Been a challenge to to get this done, but we did. Thank you very much. And, tune in next week to get US market ready with Italian wine people on the Italian wine podcast for another interesting interview with somebody in the business. This is Steve Bray. See you next week. We hope you enjoy today's episode brought to you by the wine to wine business forum twenty twenty two. This year, we'll mark the ninth edition of the forum to be held on November seventh and eighth twenty twenty two in verona Italy. Remember tickets are on sale now. So for more information, please visit us at wine to wine dot net. Hi guys. I'm Joy Livingston, and I am the producer of the Italian wine podcast. Thank you for listening. We are the only wine podcast that has been doing a daily show since the pandemic began. This is a labor of love and we are committed to bringing you free content every day. Of course, this takes time and effort not to mention the cost of equipment, production, and editing. We would be grateful for your donations, suggestions, requests, and ideas. For more information on how to get in touch, go to Italian wine podcast dot com.