Ep. 1333 Shelley Lindgren | Masterclass US Wine Market With Juliana Colangelo

By now, you've all heard of Italian wine Unplugged two point o. The latest book published by Mamma jumbo shrimp. It's more than just another wine book. Fully updated second edition was inspired by students of the Vin Italy International Academy and painstakingly reviewed and revised by an expert panel of certified Italian wine ambassadors from across the globe. The book also includes an addition by professor Atilio Shenza. Italy's leading vine geneticist. The benchmark producers feature is a particularly important aspect of this revised edition. The selection makes it easier for our readers to get their hands on a bottle of wine that truly represents a particular grape or region to pick up a copy, just head to Amazon dot com, or visit us at mama jumbo shrimp dot com. Welcome to Mastercross US Market with me, Juliana Colangelo. This show has been designed to demystify the US market for Italian wineries through interviews of experts in sales and distribution, social media, communications, and so much more. We will quiz each of our esteemed guests at the end of each episode to solidify the lessons that we've learned to sharpen your pencils, get out your no books and join us each week to learn more about the US market. Hi. My name is Juliana Colangelo. I'm the host of the master class US wine market, a new series on the Italian wine podcast. Today, I'm thrilled to welcome Shelley Lindgren to the show. Shelley is the owner, wine director of a sixteen, pizza folk kids restaurant locations in San Francisco and Oakland, and one of the most loyal champions of Italian wine in the US market. She co authored a sixteen Food and Wine with Kate Lee in two thousand eight and is under contract for the new Italian wine due on August of twenty twenty three. A sixteen has received multiple awards for its wine program from wine enthusiasts, wine spectator, wine and spirits magazine, and more. And we're actually here recording today in person at a sixteen and open. Welcome to the podcast, Shelley. So great to have you here. Thanks for having me. It's fun to be here. Awesome. So we're sitting here at one of your restaurants. It's Friday afternoon and two hours before you open for night. So thank you again for taking the time. So tell us a little bit more about how you started a sixteen and the inspiration for your restaurants. It's funny because in, having worked in restaurants for now well over thirty years, which is know, not making me feel this out of the junger, but, like, I didn't realize in my early twenties that that could be a summary for a profession. It Yeah. There wasn't as many in the market. Now there's a lot more, which is great for Italian. Great grape for wine, but grapes for Italian wine too. Of course. But back then, American somebody studied the world of wine. And, Italy was only one to two percent on the exam. Right. It was such a big producer of wine. Yeah. Especially in a country like America where we have many Italian immigrants from all the regions in different different parts of Italian history coming to different parts of America. And it's in one agency and opened in two thousand and four. It seemed I didn't realize what a risk it was at the time because even friends in New York that had Italian restaurants Right. Were kind of believed that so many we opened a set of time to go this restaurant. In California in the last. Yeah. In California. And and, and I kind of fell into it in a way because I really thought they were delicious wines. Right. And I love the history and tradition and, yeah, being a fifth generation California. I we don't have as much of that here. We have stories of our families and where they came from and, you know, and But that history is so incredibly rich. Right? It is. It's unbelievable. And then we finally go to Italy. And then everything has stories and there's like cities with layers and layers and cities on top of cities and stories and And, but I was working in French fine dining and there was about seventy five percent of the exams were mostly French fine. Right. Yeah. But, you know, the whole organization of wine in France, it's much easier to learn. And then we have California wind making that has, a lot of Italian influence, like, all farmers in in California do, but, but there is mostly French grapes in the world that enter as we see it today. But I think it's changing. Yeah. For sure. What was the, you know, introduction to Italian wines considering you were working with a mostly French list? Like, how did you get that initial intro into the category? Well, that's, I I wasn't studying Italian wine, and I was told I only really needed to know Piedmont Tuscany and Benito. And, of course, I love those wines. Yeah. But then I was reading more about the history of Italy, and I realized there's seventeen other regions. Mhmm. And I mean, of course, I wanted to pass the exam, but I once I started learning the beautiful stories and, like, the histories and the great how many grapes there were. Yeah. It was, like, are you in travel for wine? I basically was like, I wanna go to Italy. Right. So let's go visit these wineries and things. Yeah. And, and then when I started when I went to Italy and then you paired food and wine. Mhmm. It's likeumbria with San Latino and Martinez or Mhmm. You know, where you name it any region. And, my, mother in law's family in Blue grade from Moli's a they're from Cabo, and they're she grew up in South Philly. That's where their boat landed when they came over. And, and there's a lot of histories and traditions that came over at the time. But it was like a work in progress. And when we opened, it was we were hoping that the the type of pizza we were doing from Right. Natalie and going to get certified with the verapita, Napolitana, and, you know, having meatballs separate from the pasta. Right. I never really did it in trying to Moncerrellas and Barada, we really tried to, recapture our experiences and and also with hospitality. And I figured I was gonna be on the floor, has a some way and if somebody asked for a selling unblock, and I recommended a record of Tupo. Right. You know, hopefully they liked it. And if not, I would find this something else. Right. I wouldn't take it personally, but it worked out. Yeah. It's amazing. Yeah. And here we are today. And I when we talk about history too and tradition. I mean, if you think about Southern Italy, it is the birthplace of a lot of, you know, modern, but data culture today in Italy, a lot of it started in the south. So, yeah, I think it's incredible that you're paying homage to those regions. So this episode, we're gonna talk more specifically about challenges opportunities for Italian wine in the US market, but in San Francisco, Bay Area today two thousand twenty three. What, you know, a lot has changed in the world as we all know. So what can Italian producers, wineries respect when they're coming back to market. Maybe for the first time in three years, you know, here in San Francisco, what are somebody is looking for? How are restaurants operating? So we're really excited to get your perspective on all those things. So let's talk a little bit just generally what's happening right now in the Bay Area and restaurants. What's the general vibe, you know, beginning twenty twenty three? It's interesting. I'm excited for this year. But I we also we have Italian winemakers coming in force right now. And I think that is important and really exciting for us because we support one another. You know, we can talk about the wines a lot, but when when we get to meet the people behind it, I think it makes a big difference. And and we can celebrate their wines. We do real casual wine dinners, but I can't tell you how many times over the years when our guests we have, like, I'm so in love with our guests, but they meet the winemakers and hear their stories. And each winery has such a unique story, and they're like, they go visit them. They It's amazing. By their wines. They Yeah. You know, it's like it takes on a life of its own. It's it's very connected. And then When I go to Italy or and we'll come here and feel like it's almost like family. So we've been open nineteen years and Yeah. And SF and almost ten here. And and, so it's it's been a really enriching. Yeah. So when the producers are here, in market, it sounds like there's an appetite from the guests to reconnect in person, to be meeting people, to be meeting producers, like having those experiences again. Think especially with traveling coming up again. And and also it helps to be a lot of our teams are some have been with us since day one, and some are new, and some have been, you know, medium. So it does it also helps connect with, why we do things. Right. Like, and I know when, our team gets a chance to travel and go to Italy, there's a there is sort of a, like, oh, this is why we do this at Ace. Yeah. The thing. Like, why there's probably, like, a long way. They're like, why do we do that here? I understand. I understand your philosophy. The reason why these wines are here, why the focus is here too. Yeah. And we also have quite a few Italians that work with us. And they are they live in US now, and, like, our love for their homeland is almost like continuous story. Yeah. I always ask them. I always maybe, like, pick their brains and, like, and wanna know more or if if I'm coming across an article or a wine or story, I'll share it with all everybody. But then I'm still trying to speak Italian still to this day because I already I don't there's so many dialects and italy. I mean, once we've had a few classes, why not it's fine. Everything, I can speak italian. Yeah. But I I'm really trying to not that the wine book is done too. And we're so excited. We really wanna get out and about it and spend time focused on wine. And during the pandemic, we that is my, you know, that is the thing I is the easiest for me, but actually, like, you know, getting that survival mode and things. We just kind of pivoted and now I feel like we're back is helping all this is helping to move us back to events back to travel. So, yeah, tell us with the new book coming out in the summer. Like, plans for that. What it's gonna focus on? Where we can read it? It's super exciting. Yeah. Just went on pre order a few weeks ago, and, it was a six year project. So it's the Kate K and our third book. We started traveling for almost twenty years ago because she worked at a sixteen, but we opened in two thousand four. Mhmm. And Then she, she was a line cook and went to Northwest from not her master's in journalism, and we were her first book. Cool. And, then we end up winning the ICP cookbook of the year, the Julia Channelwood book. And I worked a big book, but and we always showed that She's like, that was my first time. And I have a one that says. Doctor in the park. Yeah. That's amazing. But, but we traveled a lot and then for that book, and we spent a lot of time, knocking on doors because there wasn't a lot of information. We could barely fast check then. And now there's so much information out there. Yeah. And now there's some ways getting certified in Italian wine. I've I've taught some of those classes. Yeah. And so it's like a whole new world and people are very much more energized and excited about lesser known regions. Yeah. And just today, wine enthusiasts, I always saw a post about ancient Roman grapes. Interesting. Yeah. And I was, like, all day long. Yeah. That's because I mean, our when we opened SPQR, I'm no longer involved. It has a two thousand nineteen, but for twelve years, ice, we opened and started that. Our wine list was the Roman Roads. No. That's what you're saying. There was a small space and we could cover a few regions that way and stuff, but I really be focused. Yeah. Introduce people to something new as well. Yeah. Italian wine podcast, part of the Mono jumbo shrimp family. So speaking of, you know, ancient Roman varieties, what Italian wines are selling best right now in the Bay Area? Here at eight three sixteen, but also just generally what are you hearing from your colleagues and the community? I think there is I mean, Sicily is definitely. Yep. It's I'm not sure if it's the movie, the godfather, miss White Lotus, unless you need them, but And then we're on the same latitude as Napa and Sicily here. So it's people feel very, and it's a very inviting region. I'm very connected about Sicily's. And, And with grapes like Monto put you on a deput so you are, even Allianca, like, yesterday, we just got an Alianca background by the glass. We usually have a few. And our servers are like, finally, god. Thank god. We didn't have an Alianca for a minute. And I was like, This is a great conversation. Yeah. We've seen consumers also looking, like, for demand of some of these grapes that may be ten years ago or even sooner than that you're only introducing them too, which is exciting. Yeah. And I think it hasn't that it's more like, if we understand the way the wines taste, if that doesn't really matter what the what the grape is. If someone's looking for a pinot or Bernas, you could go so many places in Italy that that I mean, beautiful acidity to our, and there's a lot of quality. And I I feel really lucky because I know we're working with really small producers often. Mhmm. Yeah. And just be able to get them here and for them and have it be like one of our you know, staples Right. Someone like Kelly Romano or Domiana Chioli. Yeah. You know, but, Yeah. To get them that exposure and Yeah. Into the glasses of so many consumers, it's super exciting. Yeah. It's, there's just there's so much quality and value still. I mean, I think everyone's prices are growing up for everybody, but but we could we have lots to offer. And Yeah. And that's one of the beauties of Italy too. Like, trying I always say, like, you know, it's It's really what's in the glass speaking. Mhmm. And adapting to what the consumer is looking for, but insure still introducing them to something different and new. Yeah. What do you think more generally, some in the Bay Area are looking for with their wine programs? What are they trying to accomplish philosophically or what are they looking for with producers that they're sourcing from? Like, where would have you seen change in recent years? It's all over the map. Yeah. Actually, I it's interesting to see because there has been a movement on each from natural wines. Of course. Yeah. But I like, we have tons of natural wines on our list, but I don't separate them out. We just know when to go far and I could, but then I'd have to, like, take them out of the regions and make them, like, you know, in their own areas. But I usually go to, I mean, regions like, Sicily, Machio, Emilia Romas, really having a lot to focus on. Right. Because they're they're all over and some are easier to detect than others. Yeah. And so They're not necessarily labeled as natural in Italy, but a lot of them are naturally made too. Right? Yeah. And it's I think it goes back to that, traditions and histories and understanding the the regions. And so it's not like a new it's not really a new thing. It's going back into an older time, but I I try to be like an equal opportunity. Like, we are very focused on organic farming and we're focused on quality But I think that, you know, the laws in Italy are different than laws in California. In California, you can be a natural wine and not be organic. Mhmm. Which kinda goes against the whole philosophy of natural wine. I think, you know? Yeah. So, like, it's it could be confusing. Are you getting seeing a lot of demand though from consumers, like, coming in in the Bay Area and looking for natural wines? Like, is that something you're hearing? I I think it goes both directions. Something that don't want natural wines and some people do on Yeah. And this was kind of polarizing in that way, but but sometimes I've given friends of mine that are master sony's natural wines that are red and they love it. Yeah. Some Yeah. Never know. Right? And I'm like, but it's just the wine's delicious. It's delicious. Right. So it kinda they're get I think it even that it goes in the other direction where somebody's like, if it's not natural, it's not. Yeah. Gonna be, you know, to our standards, but I I don't like, so I'm I've never been I just like like a wine and speak for herself. Yeah. If it's a great wine and and it's natural, awesome. Amazing. There's so many. I mean, I've when Kira Pepe has been here and she's like, they're a natural they became it organically because, the media was allergic to sulfites. And There you go. I mean, and so, you know, I think they they're loved by both Right. Yeah. So it's really more about ultimately what, you know, what is the the guest want and what's gonna suit what they're looking for too. Yeah. Yeah. How would you say with, you know, in terms of price point, are you seeing any fluctuation changes this year from previous years noticing any trends, like, what consumers are gravitating towards, what's selling, and what are you seeing there? I think people are very open Yeah. Minded. And I think, hopefully, we've gained a lot of trust because we've we've focused on Yeah. Things that really go with our food and Right. And but, I mean, prices have gone up across the board. Yeah. So maybe, budgets have gone up a little bit too. And we try to have things that you can have every day. Right. And and wise that you could have if it's your birthday. And that's I'll, you know, learn that from going to Italy. It's like your neighborhood restaurant, you could go for on a just for dinner, or you can go for a totally different way of enjoying the restaurant and and, dress it up, and dress it down, like, where you wanna be. Right. So, you know, offering things just different price points, you know, to suit different occasions depending on what people are coming in for. The ten dollars being something different to different people. Yeah. You know, definitely what age range you're in, what what demographic, what Yeah. What, you know, where you're used to dining and stuff. So Yeah. I think we're sort of we can we could be, we're a neighborhood restaurant, or we also of destination or Yeah. Wine dinners. We have a wine dinner on Sunday. Cool. Do you have wine dinners every Sunday or just if that's just this week? No. And this Sunday coming up, we have Cara Chowelich from Abrutso. Awesome. And She's I've known her now for I think I met her first in two thousand seven. Yeah. Traveling over and her family stories just incredible, and she's amazing. And and, They have, you know, sharp like, they're a great example because they have a price points that we can provide the glass. Very familiar. And then she also carries the Maso Concelli wines that are, you know, not everyday wines Right. For everyone. And then But so I feel like that is, you know, so that we would sell fewer bottles of that. But people are their palates are adapted to, you know, a really quality producer. Yeah. And especially if they have the opportunity to meet jar, right, wanting to explore the range of wines, I'd imagine. There's so much great education at eight sixteen, the wine dinners, but you also have a great wine club. Can you tell us a little bit more about that? So that was started with the book process when COVID hit in May of twenty twenty because I wanted to focus on wine, but I had so many other things on my plate. And so Kate and I started doing a a region a month. We covered every region of Italy and and toured around. And then once we passed twenty months, it became something different. Like, it's still a wine club and we still have the same amounts and the same price, but, like, it's, it's three wines and for seventy nine dollars. And if you ship and ship, and we it's very organic as well. A lot of our customers know about it, but it it's hard. You'd have to be looking for it. I think we should be we we could be better at promoting it, but it's has a, you know, as well as well as attended and people seem to love it. And we love telling the stories. And so, you know, and and, like, highlight different things that are happening and Right. Like, whether it's, like, there it goes through or, you know, something like that, and that we don't really have here, but it's it's a holiday we should have. Right. You know, there's stories behind everything. And and then next week, we have a master distiller from Tuscany coming. And he they make a sangiovese based gin and dinners and for moose and then make their own negronis. And so, like, you know, just negronis. And, of course, Baliatos having a moment. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. So and I think that so the world of of Italy seems to have been, like, only grown. Yeah. Beyond the wines include, you know, all a lot of other aspects of the culture. And I think, you know, Sicily, especially with the white lotus. So I think that's not quite a tremendous impact. It is, you know, the consumers here in this. Yeah. Overrun the here. I'm sorry. You're I feel I feel happy and sad for us. It's, like, it's all good. It's all wonderful. But it's, like But maybe it could bring some more attention to the south in general. It's true. The islands. You know what I mean? Oh, that's Right? Yeah. There's, like, there are cities I've never been to like tropea in Korea. I always wanted to go to. I was in Pulea in the in a couple months ago. Just remember the fastest trip. I wanted it a day longer, but but it's swing it Yeah. It's it's really exciting to see. Yeah. No. It's awesome. So we like to end each of these episodes with a little quiz because we're trying to give our listeners a master class on the US market. So try to answer these questions in thirty seconds to realize it as best you can. And I'm not timing you, till the second. So but what would you say are the most popular Italian wines right now among Bay Area, some ways? I would say Nebulaiola was always gonna be in there and that Sandra Vasey Nambiolo, but I think Fiona Devamino's having a good moment and Aetna Rosa. Yeah. Yeah. Of course, Sicily. Like we said. Yeah. And what do you think are the most popular Italian wines right now among consumers in the Bay Area? Probably prosecco and, Bernelo in Montecino. Mhmm. So it's from Classic. Sounds. Yeah. Possibly. Definitely. If you're gonna go if you're gonna give a big wide Right. Yeah. Of course. And what do you think one thing Italian wineries can do to be successful in the Bay Area market. What's one takeaway for them? I think education is really big. And so the more information, even like an email or a card or something that is, like, a little more, like, tells a personal story. Right. It goes a long way. We're, like, we're a geeky area. You know, for everything. We're geeky about food, wine, computers, you name it. Yeah. Yeah. People like to know who's making what they're consuming and the stories behind it. Yeah. Okay. So education, content sounds like Yes. If you can get here to the market too, I connect people. Definitely. Yeah. That goes over the corner. Yeah. Then I know I know, like, Floron Gohier is here. And in this and I we just were visiting with him and, you know, well, but I'm not gonna be able to see him today, you know, but I was just like, I love it. I know he's here. Yeah. You know, but he's everyone's busy. Right. Exactly. And it's great for us too, right, to see people market. I love it. I'm excited. Yeah. Because I know I'm not getting to Italy this year. So, unfortunately, next year. Next year for sure. Then I'll be talking about Italian wine a lot. Yeah. I'll be touring US a lot. Look at the park. That's exciting. Yeah. I'll be every I'll be all over. Places places I've never been. Cool. Yeah. I'm so excited. It doesn't come out till, almost fall, but like, so fall winter. It's like the end of August. Okay. We'll look out for it. Thank you so much, Shelley, for being a podcast today, taking time on a busy Friday afternoon to have me here. We really appreciate you telling us about the a sixteen story, but also what's happening right now in the Bay Area. With songs with consumers. It it's so helpful for our listeners. So thank you again for being here. Thank you. Thank you for joining me today. Stay tuned each week for new episodes of Masterclass US wine market with me, Juliana Colangelo. I remember if you enjoyed today's show, hit the like and follow buttons wherever you get your podcasts.