Ep. 1584 Chris Struck | Masterclass US Wine Market With Juliana Colangelo

Since two thousand and seventeen, the Italian wine podcast has exploded. Recently hitting six million listens support us by buying a copy of Italian wine unplugged two point o or making a small donation. In return, we'll give you the chance to nominate a guest and even win lunch with Steve Kim and Professor Atilio Shenza. Find out more at Italian One podcast dot com. Welcome to Mastercost US Market with me, Juliana Colangelo. This show has been designed to demystify the US market for Italian wineries through interviews of experts in sales and distribution, social media, communications, and so much more. We will quiz each of our esteemed guests at the end of each episode to solidify the lessons that we've learned. So sharpen your pencils, get out your notebooks, and join us each week to learn more about the US market. Hello. Welcome to Masterclass US wine market. Today, I'm thrilled to welcome Chris Strck to the Italian wine podcast. Chris is currently the beverage director for Eliley restaurant in New York City. In addition to working as a full time summer yay and consultant, Strck has taught beverage and marketing classes as an adjunct lecturer in the hospitality management department of the College of Technology at the City University of New York since two thousand eighteen, and he also currently serves as a trade ambassador for wines of Alto AdiJ and wines of Georgia. Welcome to the show, Chris. It's so great to have you here. Thanks, Juliana. Excited to be here. So, Chris, before we dive in today's discussion about social sustainability, tell us a little bit more about your background and and what has led you today to be so passionate about this topic. Absolutely. So I'm from, small, but beautiful and somewhat famous town on the North Gulf Coast of Florida, destined. And so grew up with big fishing industry, great tourism industry, also a huge military industry, from the federal government. And, that was neat because it was very much a small town feel, but seasonally, we blew up with everyone from snowbirds to tourists from around the really the world. We my family and I moved there from the city across the two bridges, just a few years after it was incorporated. So really, really small fishing village. And I'm from a family that's half, like, deep, deep south and half, like, European. So having those influences both in food and in culture and in communication and love really informed who I am today and who I who I am as a hospitality professional. So I was working in restaurants during the BP oil spill in the gulf and seeing what that did to tourism, seeing what that did to the food that we were cooking, at the restaurant, and the threat that it posed to our livelihoods it was scary. And it was a wake up call that thing choices that people make outside of this small knit community, have tremendous impact on on really widespread repercussions. And that sort of planted a seed that continue to grow over time. So I've been working for almost twenty years in restaurants in both, back of house and front of house capacities. And during COVID, it was really the first time as an adult that I had time to listen properly and to read a lot and to attend protests. And it really opened my eyes to what was going on outside of my neighborhood outside of how I identify and and really connecting with other people's struggles and after I went back to restaurants when it was when restaurants were hiring again coming out of COVID very slowly, I brought those learnings back into the choices that I made as a beverage director in how I was using the restaurant's money to make very intentional per purchases, to support those that are not generally widely supported in the beverage world. Because first and foremost, and this is something that I learned working at Racine, the the wine, the beverage that you buy, and you serve, and your restaurant has to speak for itself. It has to be a great quality first and foremost because you're not running a charity. You're running a business. And the guests that you serve may not care or have the desire to learn in that moment when they're trying to relax and enjoy themselves but you can do two things if you put in the legwork. You can serve your guests a great product while also supporting underrepresented people in the beverage world. And so that is my story of of coming to social sustainability and understanding it as this really holistic thing. Chris, talk to us a little bit about those changes you saw in your hometown. I find that to be, you know, a really interesting background that lays your foundation with that oil spill. What what changed? Like, what really was the catalyst there that made you more aware of what was happening in the realm of social sustainability? I think that when you're in the thick of any disaster, it's very easy to just, like, go to pieces, and it's totally understandable too. And I think that one of my favorite phrases in Latin is Tempeshetics Rerem, which is time healer of all things. And over time, we understand things in context better than we do when we're living through it. And here we are coming up on an anniversary of nine eleven, and so whether you're talking about you know, Hurricane Sandy or COVID or we I grew up with a lot of hurricanes being on the Gulf Coast. It's like, it's it seems terrible, especially if you've lost everything that you've known and you're trying to cope with that while while rebuilding something. And that's, that's sort of how it felt during the oil spill of people were saying, well, tourism will forever be dead here, and fishing will forever be dead here, and it was really hard having conversations with our fishing partners who already worked so hard and, you know, don't make what I feel like they deserve to make and and there's lots of stories of small fishing communities throughout the Gulf Coast and in this country that are trying to compete with imported seafoods, who are just working their asses off and really not bear still barely able to make ends meet. So I think that then it was utterly terrifying. And now it's like, okay. Well, Gulf seafood is back. We were very thankful for chefs like Tom Kalicchio who said, look, we're reading the science. We know this is safe. I'm going to put my personal name on the fact that this seafood from the gulf is safe. That this is where it's coming from. This is how it's being tested. We're gonna serve it in in my restaurant in New York City. So the damage wasn't nearly as bad as it was initially to be assessed. I don't mean environmentally, I mean, you know, to the the restaurant industry, to the fishing industry, to tourism. It recovered quicker. And, I mean, there was a lot of settlement money given, and it'd create jobs in the short term to sort of bridge that gap. But but it was utterly terrifying. And the more you have those really life shaking experiences, the better equipped I think you are to deal with them as they come. It it doesn't minimize how how big and powerful they are, but it it does help you understand them in the moment a little better and and makes you better at crisis management, which is a great skill if you work in our restaurants. Definitely. Yeah. So it sounds like that experience would, in many ways, do some parallels to what we all went through. In twenty twenty with job security and and all the changes in social equity and the awareness in social equity as well that that we saw during that time and continue to to see today in our industry. So Chris, just, you know, for starters, we're we're gonna talk today about the importance of social sustainability in the US market for the wine industry specifically, why this topic has become more important and and talking to our listeners about really, you know, why it matters and why it needs to be top of mind for anyone working the US market too. So our three key takeaways for today's master class are number one. How do we define social sustainability for the wine business? Number two, why social sustainability is critical to the success of wine businesses in the US market. And I should say globally. And number three, how to keep the human element in wine top of wines. So for starters, let's just talk definitions, talk to us about, so the definition of social sustainability. What does an entail for the wine business? I think it we have an opportunity to be leaders in a wine industry that all studies indicate that consumer consumption of wine is on the decline. And we are late to the game in having these conversations together as a global wine community on how to best meet those and address them and get ahead of it. So the time to get ahead of this is gone, Now we have to come together and and brainstorm very quickly how to recover from it, or we're gonna be sitting on a lot of wine. Some of which is gonna improve with age, but much of which will not. And, and it will change the nature of our industry, I think. How I would define social sustainability for a wine business is holistically. I think that a lot of wine brands do a good job highlighting what they're good at, which is important I'm I work in sales at at multiple capacities. I I understand the importance of highlighting what you're doing right, and there's nothing wrong with that. But I think that after the marketing work is done to identify what you're doing right, it's like, great. Let's keep doing this and let's keep talking about this. I think that that time and energy and resources and funds and and, and people power could be reinvested into saying, we're doing this great. We're telling people about it. What can we continue to better ourselves on and continue telling people about? And I think that we've sort of reached a threshold in all of our businesses, considering what the market cares about and looking at the research and saying, okay. This, you know, this is what we need to focus on. This is what consumers, right now, the buzzwords are organic and natural and how do we present ourselves in this light. And I think better, and particularly as the competitive landscape changes in the US market, for wines, both domestic and imported here, how do you differentiate yourself? And the answer to that question is starting now with that holistic approach. So it is it is great that you have solar panels. It is great that you have cut your carbon emissions. It is great that you've moved to no till if that's right for you. Lots of lots of, meaningful boxes to check. I'm not minimizing them by listing them. However, And and there's a very powerful, Steve mathieson quote that I'm going to paraphrase here. He's a well known Viticultureist and winemaker out in California of, in all of my years, selling my wines and talking about my wines in different markets, people have asked me about levels of sulfur and, what I spray in the vineyard and no one has asked me if I give my people health insurance. Wow. That's pretty powerful. It is so powerful because How can you talk about social sustainability or, you know, let's put the social in parentheses here. How can you talk about real sustainability if the people and that sort of jumps to that that third point that we wanted to highlight today is we need to keep reminding people of the people element in wine. And that happens at all one wine. When I when I teach wine, I mentioned this in my wine class at Cuny last week, we often forget and and through no real fault of our own, that grapes are grown and and harvested by people. People are operating the equipment in the winery to make it into wine. It is being overseen by people, those people are bottling the wine and putting labels on the wine, putting those bottles into boxes, people are taking those boxes from a winery into a truck, into a warehouse, into a truck, delivering them to your businesses, And then people are serving those wines to other people. Right. And and doing the, you know, polishing the glassware and and clearing your and taking care of you while you're in your in their care. And I think that's really beautiful, but it's something that I think is often left out of the of the marketing story of of wineries and no pun intended. It's low hanging fruit. I don't like that Chipotle commercial that the air during the Super Bowl, maybe twelve years ago, where they talk they, like, present a cartoon of factory farming and what a lot of farming looks like in this country. And I'm not a shill for Chipotle by any means, but I think that it especially being timed during the Super Bowl, cause people to pause and go, oh, yeah. What is an American farm in in this this year? What does it mean to be a farm? You could you could put farm raised on anything. There's no legal protections for it. And consumers have been so misled for so long and and the the waters of greenwashing so muddied with these phrases that nobody really knows what they mean anymore. And that's dangerous, but it's just also an opportunity for brands to assert themselves as being, genuine and authentic. And while I know that providing health insurance and paid time off and and English as a second language and childcare for your employees is very expensive. I I operate. Wrong with a lot of employees. We have these conversations a lot about what benefits we can afford to extend, to our people, and and we believe that it's very important to have these conversations and to do better. And and we have demonstrated growth of that in the last few years. So I get it. It's building that into your your, your financials is really hard, and that might involve raising prices, which is always scary for Right. And conversations with what markets their wines end up and who their distribution and import partners are. But But I'm saying now that in America, we have these conversations, whatever the reasons for them, around this idea and this word of being woke. And I think that we add here to a louder level given what has happened in this country for the last few years with things like Black Lives Matter and, and the injustices seen during the during the COVID pandemic in this country and elsewhere, I think that if winery start having these difficult, expensive conversations now, as consumers continue caring more about what they consume, especially what they ingest what they put in their bodies. I think that we sell and market wine forget that we're actually consuming this. This is not like an an Apple watch that we wear. We are putting food and wine into our bodies. And it seems like a few years ago, consumers kind of stopped with organic biodynamic. And that was the end of it. It's like, oh, anything organic is good. Anything natural biodynamic. It's it's all good. It's all good. It's better than the alternative. But I really do believe that with different modalities like podcasts like this, and more truths being spread on social media that even though the mainstream media has dropped the ball with investigative journalism, individual brands can be that voice shining through a lot of of I'm can I say bullshit on here? Lost instant messaging and say, hey, ask the other brands that are being put in front of you. By people that sell them ask the other brands sitting on a shelf in your local wine shop, which one of these provide health care to their employees? Which one of the yes. Of course, we have to speak ecologically about what's good for soil and for, you know, pollinators. That stuff is very important. We shouldn't drop that in favor of just providing better benefits to the people that we employ. But but getting ahead of the next step, which is going to be inevitable, will be tremendously valuable for brands in the near future. Chris, just to sum it up. I mean, you're so passionate about this topic. It comes through and your responses, but I just wanna make sure our our listeners have a clear understanding of what we're referring to when we say social sustainability. We mean how you're treating your employees as a as a business. Correct? We're talking about how the people that are working for your company are treated in terms of pay, but also in terms of other benefits. Looking at it more holistically at how it impacts your business. Correct? Correct. And it but it's not just your people. It's your your stakeholders. So your people are are, of course, your your customers and your employees what about your business partners? I think that in the US market and I'm sure abroad, but I know of many examples in the US market where, the behavior of someone's agent stateside for, an imported winery has caused problems for that brand. You know, you really now are scrutinizing. You need to scrutinize more than ever today who is representing you and where and how and due diligence before working with a new supplier to make sure that they have a good background and are really good people because they're an extension of your brand. So I think social sustainability ought to be as outward facing as it is inward facing. But, yes, it it comes down to people. Absolutely. And I know, you know, people externally in the customer too that that relates to the sustainability of our industry as you touched on in the beginning, you know, we have to make sure we're cultivating that next generation of of consumer and that's sustainability as well so that we have an audience, to to buy our products moving forward. That's an entirely different topic. So we're gonna stick today to more around the internal social sustainability as well as you had mentioned, the stakeholders that you're partnering with, especially for our listeners who might be Italian wine companies working with importers and and distributors here in the US market. So talk to us a little bit more, you know, you work at a restaurant in New York City. You've worked at restaurants for many years in addition to teaching. How do you communicate when you're you're on the floor? How did your team communicate to your guests the importance of social sustainability to your customers? Also talk to us a little bit about how you communicate this topic just internally to your own stakeholders and your own team at Illinois. Of course. I think that it's important to I've said this training wine professionals for the better part of ten years, if you don't know something, even if it's something that you should know, it's very important not to make it up. One, because that's just the right thing to do. You don't wanna spread misinformation, and you may, you know, repeat the same line that you think is true over and over, and then suddenly it becomes part of your canon of this is true about this thing. And that's that's just as dangerous for you as it is for society as a whole. But the the more practical things is you could be talking to the person that imports that one. You could be talking to the person that makes that wine. You could be and I I heard an example, actually, from the the market manager of an Italian winery about eight years ago where he was in a market and in a restaurant with a beverage director dining. And the beverage list was open, and he tried to order one of his wines from the restaurant. And the sommelier walked up to the table and actively talked him out of this swine Oh, wow. Saying that they weren't a big fan. You know? And, nobody asked their opinion. He didn't he wasn't baiting this person saying, what do you think of this swine? Right? That that would have been you know, come up May. But they they actively try to talk this person out of it, and I'm just thinking, oh, yikes. That's there's a training error there. Because you always wanna lead with graciousness and hospitality. So I mentioned that not a zero sum game is it's very easy to start curling things at each other when you when you make the stakes so severe. I think that if we lead with empathy in conversations about what is true about the products, right, so to to bring the point that I'm trying to articulate home, how organic are you? Most guess normal people that dine out don't want to know the c o two as a debt bottling or s o two as a debt bottling. Right? They they don't care. So being goodwill ambassadors about good people making good wines, it I my name is on the beverage list. So I can stand by the wines in our program and say that they are in this program for a reason and talk very honestly about all of them and in giving unique selling points about these wines and how they one go great with the food, and offer great value at different price points how they benefit the world. And and just mention that just sort of gives a reassuring pat on a consumer's back that not only may you enjoy this wine if we've done our job and and paired it to the wines that you like as well as theoretically the foods you're going to eat. But how how can you additionally feel good about you purchasing this bottle of wine? Because we've done the leg work. Instead of working with one supplier, we we work with like, say, thirty suppliers of wine in order to give a great variety of grapes, styles, places, but also, eathoses. Right? Because there's people that don't give a damn about conventional versus natural versus or they don't they don't care. So I think it's important to be authentic and to say this is a focus of our beverage list. So a focus of ours actually runs parallel to, but isn't the same as, organic, natural, etcetera. It is supporting women and other minorities in wine. So in social sustainability, this this fits perfectly with with our ethos and our messaging, is If you wanna have a conversation about what is done in the vineyard and what is done in the cellar, we're happy to have that. But we're going to lead with the reason that we bought this wine is this. One, it is delicious, and hopefully that goes without saying because we wouldn't put a wine that isn't on a list. Of course. Two, it's there because of this reason. Now you have a delicious wine that when you spending money and enjoying a dish delicious wine, you've bettered the world because you dined it to Lily. So now we're part of this truly sustainable ecosystem where people are coming in to spend their money, have a good meal. They enjoy the food. They enjoy the service. They enjoy the wine, hopefully. And they come back and keep understanding. Lilly is not just a great restaurant. To enjoy an evening, but you can be doing good with your money and and not even have to think about it because we do all that leg work. Yeah. And I think that to me, I mean, as a consumer, obviously, there's thousands of restaurants you can dine in in New York City is is a unique selling point. Wine to wine business forum. Everything you need to get ahead in the world of wine, supersize your business network. Share business ideas with the biggest voices in the industry. Join us in Verona on November thirteen to fourteen twenty twenty three. Tickets available now at point wine dot net. Chris, talk to us a little bit about the evolution of that approach, Adi Lily. Is this an approach that you brought into the restaurant that you had to convince your stakeholders to adopt. It was was it something that was already happening? Just talked to us a little bit about the evolution of this approach in general on the US market around social sustainability. Sure. I think it was, not as difficult a sell for me when I started because I've another central tenant of Lilly's beverage program is is supporting quality wind makers and and spirits producers, and the one brewery we can get right now in this country from Lebanon because that, you know, Lebanon could definitely use, support. And they are making beautiful wines and have been making beautiful wines for a long, long time. So it is important to have conversations about, you know, ancient places in the wine world as it keeps changing as there are emerging regions, as there are new players in existing regions to not remember what came before the classics. So I think working for, you know, Lebanese people from Lebanon with a hospitality background who understood as restaurateur in nearly fifteen years when I joined that had I mean, to be a restaurant in New York City for fifteen years is quite an accomplishment. It did I bought a lot of restaurants that we can say exist today existed that long ago, and I'm very proud of that for us. And but understanding the playbook that got us to where we are today is is only a small part of writing the playbook for what we need to be there another fifteen years. And I think that presenting sustainability and and highlighting the learnings that I learned throughout COVID and reading and and marching, were things that other consumers also learned. And and I'm even seeing that with our guests, and I'm seeing that with with our staff who are curious about more than this tastes like grapefruit, this this tastes okie and full bodied. Right? They want wine is ripe with storytelling. Right. And how are our stories going to evolve in this, you know, very significant human focused climate? We we seem to be, you know, more at odds with each other as humans than ever before. And I really think sitting around a table with a bottle of wine finding those commonalities is going to be tremendous to our social sustainability as humanity. I mean, it sounds very dramatic, but it it happens at around tables with friends and with foes. It it has to happen on the small scale. There's no prime minister that can unite the world. Yeah. That's very true. And I and I agree with you wholeheartedly. I mean, sitting around the table getting to know someone perhaps over a bottle of wine or not. I think is the best way to break down some of these boundaries and and barriers, but also just to get to know people from different backgrounds, which is, you know, fear, I think, is one of the primary drivers in this world. Of conflict. And if we know our neighbors, we know people from from different backgrounds, we break bread with them. We share a bottle of wine with them. I also believe that that will only help us in the future too. Absolutely. So, Chris, talk to us a little bit more. We've had some really strong philosophical points in this conversation, which I love. And I talked to us a little bit more tactically now as we went down about some of the ways in which businesses can keep social sustainability top of mind for their employees. How they can start incorporating some of these practices into their business, whether they be a winery, a importer, a restaurant. You gave some great examples, throughout the episode about E Lily, but also, Steve mathiason and mathiason wines, But talk to us a little bit more about how our listeners can can act after listening to this episode. Sure. I I think that, sadly in new ventures and maybe some older ones, the idea of a mission statement and an ethics code has sort of gone by the wayside. I think it was just considered, like, that's really old school along with a lot of other old school things that may not be as useful today, but I think it's never been more imperative without getting too philosophical. I'll say as a as a tactic. If you don't have a mission statement, or a code of ethics and or you don't have one that's been updated recently to reflect the world we live in today and the people you employ today who may be different than than when you started writing these things initially, revisit it, rewrite it, and implement it. Talk about it. It's not, you know, let's not at every weekly meeting, recite it together with our hand raised. That's weird. But let's practically live it. And that's easier said than done. Right. Do the people that work for us. Are they familiar, not just with the fact that it exists, but, what the principles of a mission statement and an ethics, you know, set of ideals are, and can they hold us as leaders in the business to all of them? And that's I mean, that it sounds very complex, but it's actually quite simple. If you look at your deliverables and, your KPIs for the next quarter, for the next year, a lot of people are trying to wrap up their, you know, twenty twenty four objectives and goals right about now. And I would say if you're writing goals and objectives, without referring to something that's grounding and universal and, in a in a real, like, living thing that that ties everyone to a higher standard, then you're putting the horse before the cart. I think that if you were to take, okay, we've been talking about these as being important markets to focus in next year, and this is where we wanna grow. And these are new skews. We wanna the that's all fine. Do that. But if you've already done that, and you've done it without the lens of because because it takes doing things to to have those come to fruition. And what are you prepared to do to make sure you succeed in those endeavors? And that's where the mission statement and and the ethics come into play because you need something to make sure that all parties are held. And and from an inverse, right, if anyone is put into a situation where they feel like their ethics might be compromised, they have something a resource to lean on and say, I could not do this as a member of the business because it violates this. So that would be, like, my real, nose to the grindstone recommendation is start with a mission statement and start with real like, meaningful things, not just words. AI can generate you a mission state. That sounds really good. But is it something that all parties want to adopt and is this something practical that they can live by? Right. Absolutely. Okay. So for starters, being intentional, and put into words what your mission statement is, but be also true and real to to your business as well. Because that's gonna set you up for success. You you may not see the the virtue of doing that now, but it seems like every year of wine and the nature of wine and the nature of how wine has talked about and sold changes. Right? Right. You would have thought that influencers would play such a role in wine today in the United States, and they do. Great point. So if you're winery, let let me let me put it to to people like this. Wonder one day that your winery is under the scrutiny of a journalist or a wine writer and knowing how things can go viral. Regardless of the publication of the gravitas that it carries, do you wanna be on the right side of history? Do you wanna be able to say in a statement, in a press release, we have a proven track record of this this this. What other of our competitors have this, this, and this? But do you know, being able to say that in three to five years requires the work to be done now. So, Chris, as we wind down this episode, and thank you for all your powerful insights and words on today's episode of a really fantastic conversation, and and I learned a lot. And also, I think, again, your your passion comes through about this topic and why it's so important now. We end every episode with our rapid fire quiz. And today, we're actually gonna do a slightly different format and we'll begin asking our participants all the same three questions at the end of every episode that will help our listeners understand the US market but also gain more insights. So question number one, what is your number one tip for mastering the US wine market? Recognizing that there is no one US wine market and there is no mastering it. It's a great place to start. And when you're on market visits, consider drinking more than wine with people and consider for professional reasons doing it outside of the programming to sell the wine. What I mean by that is my closest connections and and getting honest information out of people, you know, as a buyer has come with, yeah, thank you so much for for hosting us for this marvelous dinner at a great restaurant. Would you like to grab a martini nearby? Would you like to grab a beer at a local dive bar and watch this live musician play? I would love to talk about wines. I would love to talk about where you're from, share about where I'm from, and maybe together, we can solve the problems of the world. And I just joked with a with a New Zealand mine a friend of mine two weeks ago, I said that there have been many nights where myself and and other wine people from other markets have gotten just obliterated and solved the problems of the world. And then we wake up the next day. We forget how to do it. But I really think goodwill is bridged through those maybe unofficial meetings and you really get to know someone's character when they're they don't feel like they have to present and be on stage a hundred. So get to know people in a in a more casual and real and human setting as well beyond that account visit or beyond that that market visit. That's a that's a really great point. Okay. Question number two, what is something you would have told your younger professional self about selling wine in the US? Keep an open mind. I think there are two schools of people that began studying wine or at least, I I guess this is true today, but it was certainly true when I started studying wine. Those are those that really focus on the fundamentals and the classics. Which I think is a good idea, because you can always move on from those, but without an understanding of, where wines started in the, quote, unquote, old world countries, quote, unquote, ancient world countries, you cannot appreciate in context newer things, more different things, geekier things. So there are those that really focus on that. And then some move on from the classics and some never leave the classics, and they only drink eight things, which I would also say it. Little bummer and and shows close close mindedness, the others are those that jump into the esoteric and write off and dismiss what is old as being unimportant, unrelevant, uninteresting, problematic for the world. And I would say that's dangerous. So both those extremes are dangerous. Keep an open mind, but also study and value and understand the the classics and the fundamentals. You you can and should do more. And it broadens your market as well because it can be a little polarizing if you only drink in certain circles of people that only drink with these ethoses. And, really, if you wanna ingratiate yourself to the wine industry and become a better wine professional who's better at communicating with a wide range of people you need to drink and taste, and visit regions with an open mind. I love that advice. And finally number three, what is your favorite travel hack when you're doing market work in the US or, you know, all abroad Sure. I do more market work, abroad when I visit regions, either as their ambassador or as a as a buyer. But I think that the same advice applies for someone from Italy or elsewhere who's coming to the US market to work. And god bless people that come over here and do these, like, six week market tours across the entire continental US, I always have so much respect for them, and just an amazement in how their bodies can withstand this. But I am not a shill for this company. I received no endorsement from them, but I've been using them for years. It's called Jet Zone. It's a Jetlag prevention. It they're homeopathic travel medicines. And one, like, I don't I'm not a doctor. I don't remember the exact dosage, but you pop one, like, an hour before take off. And you pop one, like, every three hours, you're in the air that you are awake. You don't have to wake up if you fall asleep to take one. It doesn't matter. And then you take one, like, an hour after you land. And between that and, you know, as regimented, as regimented at coffee, access as I can get to emulate my coffee intake in in the US, which is generally three double espresso a day, I I can be a happy camper with Little Sleep and with jet lag between those two things. The challenges, it it it I think that New Yorkers in particular go into European markets on wine trips, and people are like, are you okay? You've acquired coffee And I don't think we're even aware of how much coffee we drink it here because it's always, you know, accessible. But when you're in a in a bus or in a van in, you know, rural vineyard areas and there's not a a great little cafe, easily accessible, you sort of have to have that conversation with your handler early on and say, I have no problem being in a bus at seven in the morning and being at a dinner until one o'clock in the morning, but if you don't keep me caffeinated, I will fall asleep at tastings and dinners. And I have been part of a group of sommeliers that is more or less hijacked a bus that we were on and say we're not going to the next appointment without coffee. And that's we weren't trying to be divas. We just we wanna be respectful and alert and engaged with our hosts, and we couldn't do that without caffeine. Yep. No. Kathy's important. So, what I'm hearing and to our listeners, keep your people caffeinated. Definitely. Well, thank you, Chris, so much for being here today and for sharing all your passion and thoughts and insights on social sustainability with us. How can our listeners connect with you? At chris, c h r I s underscore struck, s c r u c k on Instagram is probably the best way to reach me. Okay. Fantastic. Well, thank you again, Chris, for being here today. My pleasure, Juliana. Thanks so much for having me. Thank you for joining me today. Stay tuned each week for new episodes of Master Class US wine market with me, Juliana Colangelo. And remember if you enjoyed today's show, hit the like and follow buttons wherever you get your podcasts.