Ep. 1765 Sarah Heller MW | Masterclass US Wine Market With Juliana Colangelo

The Italian wine podcast is the community driven platform for Italian winegeeks around the world. Support the show by donating at Italian wine podcast dot com. Donate five or more Euros, and we'll send you a copy of our latest book. My Italian Greykeak journal. Absolutely free. To get your free copy of my Italian GreatGeek journal, click support us at italian wine podcast dot com, or wherever you get your pots. Welcome to Master cost US market with me, Juliana Colangelo. This show has been designed to demystify the US market for Italian wineries through interviews of experts in sales and distribution, social media, communications, and so much more. We will quiz each of our esteemed guests at the end of each episode to solidify the lessons that we've learned. To sharpen your principles, get out your notebooks, and join us each week to learn more about the US market. Hello. Welcome to Master Class US wine market. Today. I'm thrilled to welcome back to the Italian wine podcast Sarah Heller. Sarah likely doesn't need an introduction for many of you that are listening, but for those of you who are not familiar with Sarah, she is an NW, a wine expert and a visual artist, and she's also one of the faculty members for Van Italy International Academy. Welcome to the show with Sarah. It's so great to have you back on the Italian One podcast. Thanks so much, Juliana. Really, really excited to be here. Very excited to have you here. So today, we're gonna dive into a little bit more about Via as it's coming to the US market. This March, New York. So you'll be leading that course. So excited to learn more from you about what to expect for the course for our listeners. But also more generally your backgrounds, how you became faculty for via, and your journey in the world of a Toni wine. And now that you're back in the US market, what you're doing here as as you've been back for a little over a year now. But before we dive in, Sarah, tell us a little bit more about your background and how you became such an integral part of the Via program. Thanks, Giovanni. Yeah. So I, probably my first professional encounter with wine, was kind of in an Italian setting and then in Italy. So I, I had originally developed an interest in cooking. Well, originally, I I've I've had a lot of interest over the years. I was studying art and developed an interest in cooking had wanted originally to go down, the French route. I took was taking courses at the French culinary Institute. But when it came to looking for an internship, say, for half a year, while I took time off university, there was the crickets when I looked around in France, whereas in Italy, I was able to find a number of people who were interested in taking me. And so it just sort of shifted my entire direction. Once I got there, I ended up in, Torino. And, my chef there was very into wine. Possibly more than he was into cooking. So he would he would drive me most weekends, the go tasting wine, and one of my first visits ever was the Pruditori de Babresco. Wow. And, yeah, start start about starting from the top. Started from the top for sure. Yeah. And I've never really been able to get over Piamante. I know in, in Via, we really try to set aside personal preferences and don't get me wrong. I love all the other regions too. But I think we all, we all have our first love so that we find it hard to get over. So Pamela said I continued to be part of my work. I that I later ended up moving back to Hong Kong and working with Deborah Myberg, the master of wine. Okay. And, while we were doing that, we did some work with the academic and parole. Mister really got me back into the Italian mode. And sort of in the wake of that, I decided to do via when it first to have launched, I think in twenty fifteen. And it was very much a a stevie refers to it as edition zero and refers to the people who did that that version of the course as the guinea pigs. And I thought it was a course that had such incredible potential, but I felt that on some level, the detail and the specific focus in the course just on the grapevine DNA sorted to the exclusion of geography, site specificity culinary, you know, culinary background history, all of that stuff. I felt like were such important pieces of the of the puzzle that had been sort of underplayed relative to the grapevine DNA portion. So I was lucky enough to pass. It sounds like it was even more nerdy and geeky when you don't. It's okay. Yeah. It was all the geekiest things about Via were the whole course at that point, which, I mean, I think was was so unique at that point in time. And I knew there was something really special about it. But anyway, passed, and then I got completely immersed in my NW studies and kind of dropped out of the VA universe as it were for a couple of years. But then came back, actually, to five star wines. I reached out to Stevie. I was doing a documentary with wine masters actually on different Italian regions, and I wanted to reach out to Stevie that's something to do with that. And she said, come come along and and judge at five star wines. So as a result, we got back to talking. And she said, you know, I remember when, when you took the original Via, you had a lot of feedback. And I, you know, I think really looking into that would be very valuable. And a couple of months later, I got a call from her saying, okay, you're doing it. What? That sounds like Stevie. Very Stevie. Very Stevie. You and Henry Devon. Yeah. So, with with that is preparation, Henry and I hadn't met, but we we met on a video call and we got to work. And then in November, I think it was two thousand eighteen, we did our first edition of Vida two point o in, in Hong Kong, which was really special for me, right, because it was it was my home at the time. So it was kind of a forgiving audience of people I knew. Right. Yeah. I was really I was really happy with the new directions. Stevie gave us a lot of latitude to round out, than what material had been. And also, we had this incredible resource of slides, from professori Shanesa, our chief scientist. It completely changed. I think the face of the course. Yeah. Right. We'll dive into all of that, Sarah. We're talking about Via coming to New York this march and diving into the benefits of the program, but, you know, you've now taught the program at least three different places. Italy, Hong Kong and and the US and LA. So it's I'm actually London too. Oh, and London. Perfect. Four. So just to learn a little bit more about the different communities of Via as well. And our our three key takeaways for today's mass her class. We know Stevie loves her her learning objectives. And what we're excited to learn from you in this episode are. Number one, what information and material do you learn in the Via program on how how does it differ from maybe other client education programs? Number two, how do you prepare to take the leave program and before or during and and preparing for the test specifically? And then, a little more of what people can expect from via in New York this march. For those who might be interested in joining the program. So, you know, for starters, you know, you've you've gone through the end program, of course, to talk to Sarah a little bit about what makes Via so unique and different from other wine education programs. Yes. So I think it starts with what the history of the course was. Right? It really is based in that DNA of the great varieties and recognizing this immense cultural heritage that Italy has, with, all of these varieties. So I think, that is still very much there. And especially in the multiple choice, we expect you both have a solid understanding of, you know, how how the different grape varieties evolved over time what the parentage is you know, to the best of our knowledge, why it is that some share traits. So an example being how all the descendants of Sanjay share, the trait of having lighter, more sort of ruby, garnet, color hue factors like that, I think are really important. And I think the point about that is that we expect you to have the sort of as it were diploma level knowledge about Italy, and this is about getting deeper into the sort of scientific literature We really try to provide, our students with references to the most up to date research. We're getting things sort of hot off the press as it were from Matilo Shenza. And then there is also the fact that it is such a, synthetic in in the in the positive sense of the word course in that we're expecting you to really take a multidisciplinary approach to understanding wine as a a cultural artifact in Italy. Right? It's anthropology, it's geology, history, so many different layers. I think looking at other Italian wine courses, and for example, Italian wine scholar, we think is is wonderful sort of in parallel to this program because it the students that come from that program often have an amazing foundation of knowledge that really helps them take via and and feel comfortable with the level of depth that they're they're plunged into. I think it is it is quite hard if you're coming at this fresh and hoping to learn maybe the basics at Kansas, classical, and Balicella. This is probably not the level you should be playing out if Italy is relatively new to you. Okay. Good to know. So having some pre work, whether it's through the diploma, through Toni Weinsdollars or another educational program, but at least knowing the basic. Yeah. Or maestro. Yeah. We talked to Chris Sachs last week about the the maestro program. So that's great. But having having that preliminary knowledge, I think, yeah, that's that's key. And I can attest to that myself for sure if it went through the Italian wine scholars as well as, w set to level three and so how that background knowledge, and I would say definitely, and you're gonna need to know the the the basics for sure of all the regions, and regulations and and laws and all that, and and via will only build upon that as as you've said. So, Sarah, you've been with, you know, VIA for a number of years now when you are one of the early, early guinea pigs that Steve called you. How has the program evolved since you became a faculty with VIA? So there were a number of factors I really wanted to emphasize, as part of the Via Course to think to take it to what I think is another level. The the aim is always to be aligning ourselves with the diploma or beyond to the master of wine. Okay. And that was, first of all, to put a much heavier focus on tasting. The the theory had really been sort of the in not the entirety of the previous via course. There were tastings, but they weren't the focus. They were kind of there to supplement the theoretical knowledge. Whereas now, I wanna see students, where maybe in the past, students had decks of, cards where each one listed the theoretical characteristics of the great varieties they had to know. Now I want them to have real tasting nerds. Right? I want people to have actually tasted these wines. Hopefully not for the first time when they come and do the course. But if not, then that's you know, a great place to to get some of those great varieties in. So tasting is really important. We've emphasized, and I think that more detail can be seen in one of the other podcasts. We've tried to emphasize that we have a standardized approach to tasting will, that is at least compatible with the systems that are used in other education programs, but it is specific to, Italian wine. Right? We really emphasize less the aromatics, which I think, especially fruit aromatics, which tend to be more subtle in Italian grapes and focus more on texture. And sometimes the other primary aromas, right, things like herbs, spices, flowers. That are unique to Italian native grape varieties. Then the other thing that has become increasingly important in the course is this idea of, the examination being really a three sixty degree picture of the student. Right? So we started out with the multiple choice exam, which really, tests you on your factual knowledge. Right? How well do you know, the core facts that that you need to that you need to understand for this course? But then also building on that, we have the testing exam and we have the essay questions, which I really increasingly am trying to ask the students to view really as essays trying to get them to be focused on persuasion Right? Rather than just regurgitating facts. Right? It's about being able to sell a particular argument or story of Italian wine, which I think is absolutely critical. And the other outlet we give them to do that is the videos. And this was a little bit of a tough sell at the very beginning. Students were not happy at having to make a recording and work with other, other people in the course, but I think increasingly we've seen students particularly in the verona program just go take this to another to another level. We've got sort of the pneumatic level productions, in recent additions. And I think it really gets to the heart of what being an ambassador is, right, rather than somebody who knows the fact, this is somebody who can go out there and convince people. Right? Get people enthused, and, passionate about Italian wine. So those have been the things that I've really worked on changing. Right. The other one inadvertently is that we've gone online to the videos. I think are really helpful for absorbing the theoretical information. I do really wanna emphasize that they are just a supplement to the written material. That I think there there maybe has been a little bit of confusion among students about whether it's still necessary to read, the book unplugged and it hundred percent is. Okay. But the videos are there. To kind of help people, especially who, you know, are more comfortable learning, through audio, maybe then, than by reading. Got it. So about the, the audio, the videos, but there's also the books. So the materials really work in conjunction. Absolutely. Three. Yeah. Okay. Got it. Yeah. And I think that, you know, I had the video component in my program in twenty twenty one when I did Via. And one of the greatest parts about Via is the community. And that video where you have to collaborate with three of your your cohort is just the first part of really getting to know the community. Sarah, can you talk to us a little bit about the via community, especially knowing that you've done this program now, in four different countries, a little bit about the global element of the via community. Think it's so fantastic that whenever a new cohort comes in, they start a new WhatsApp or at least to do each app. I think more focused on WhatsApp for the incoming students and people start to ask for study tips or or meet ups or or different things sort of in the lead up to the program. And then they often stay active for weeks, sometimes months, sometimes years after the end of the course. And then, of course, everybody gets invited to the activity quantity. Which is the major WhatsApp group. And that thing is so active. And it's wonderful. There's there's travel advice, there are people posting their new projects, there are people finding jobs. I mean, the it's it's so active. It really is. Only still intimate. I think because not, you know, there are a lot of people there who I think are are what what you refer to with, learners on social media, right, who are who are reading the information, not necessarily participating actively. And you see the people who are really, kind of actively there. It's it's a group and there's there's this delightful rapport between people and people are really supportive. So I think it is it is something very special. It reminds me of the MW study. Student groups, right, where people understand. I think maybe drawn together by mutual frustration at the difficulty of exam. You know, in his very top, there's there's no question and we're not we make, no secret of it, that it it's meant to be challenging, but doable. Right? If you put in the time and effort. Coming back to America, Van Italy International Academy, the ultimate Italian wine will be held in New York City from four to six March twenty twenty four. Have you got what it takes to become the next Italian wine ambassador? Find out at ben Italy dot com. So we're thinking about the program coming to New York in March. Talk to us a little bit about what you anticipate. And, as the instructor for the program this March, what you expect and participants to engage in. Thanks. So we have these satellite additions that we do that are outside of the Verona flagship. And there there's quite a distinction, and I want to make sure that students are aware of the distinctions so that they can kind of evaluate the pros and cons at each fee. The headline is that Verona is just bigger. Right? It's longer. It's four days of instruction or three days of formal instruction plus master classes with supporters the day before and then the exam. Whereas the satellite additions are always days of instruction. Usually, no additional master classes, although I have to check-in about this time, and then the exam on day three. There is generally a more limited wine list in verona can get really enormous and get multiples, you know, we'll get like ten different sangiovese, ten different nebbiolo. And honestly, there's a sense. It's just kind of natural to all of us where we feel like we're getting better value if we have more wines, but sometimes spending more time on each line is a better approach than just plowing your way through as many as possible. And so I've I've tried to take what could be seen as limitations of the satellite additions and turn them into benefits. So I really try to go through each one individually to to the extent possible because it's not possible to do a completely thorough answer for every single one, but I aim to get as close to filling out a complete answer for each wine and we talk through it and how you would identify it and how you would describe it. What would be the key kinds of aromatics. You should be identifying what sort of area you should be in terms of the texture or the tenons. And so I think in a way, and and on top of that, I should add that courses tend to be smaller. So you tend to have a more intimate group, which means both that I actually have a chance to get to know each of the students better. And we have a lot more time for q and a and people tend to get at least one or two questions in over the course of the two days. So I think there there is really value, to doing the satellite edition Okay. Versus Corona. It's less chaotic also because you don't have the supporter master classes, which are wonderful, but right if you're a few days away from exam time, sometimes Yeah. That information overload can be can be a bit distracting. Yeah. It's a lot. I did it in Verona, and it's a lot to kick in, you know, in in four days, five days, for sure. They're very long. In walking days. So I I can definitely attest to the the overload of information. It's it's quite quite intense for sure. So it sounds like, but this satellite program's like the one coming up in March in New York. There's a little more time outside of the program. For the study, and then keeping things a little more focused from what I'm hearing you say in the classroom itself. Yeah. And I really try to give students the opportunity. Like, if they want to workshop one of their notes, right, they read it out, and they they want to to see what I would improve. We have much more time to do that kind of thing Okay. In a satellite edition than in Corona. We're we're really just trying to get through all of these volumes. Right. Exactly. That makes a lot of sense. Sir, is there anything else you wanna share? It's about VIA, about your work with VIA, anything about the course coming up in in March, in New York, anything at all? I think we've kind of covered it. In terms of what I'm I'm hoping hoping to see, in the New York students. I've had, as you say, the chance to to teach different groups, in different parts of the world. And I think New York is where I'm expecting to see the most students have a lot of experience with Italian wine and maybe really strong personal connections to Italy. Just having, you know, started out my wine career as it were interning at a New York importer in two thousand nine. Know, I remember it being such a knowledgeable market about Italian wine relative to anywhere else that I've been even then, and I think that's probably only improved in that time. So I'm expecting to be having really high level discussions and digging into the tasting and maybe even people sharing their tasting experience rather than it all coming from me. Yeah. So a little more collaborative it sounds like we're having more inputs from, you know, the the students in the program. I think so just because, you know, obviously, I'm I'm one person I have my experience. You know, recently, I've been especially focused focused, excuse me, on Italian fine wine. I've been reviewing brunello, iente, classical, Barro de Barescu, and amarone for Plabino LaJik in London. So that's become very much my slant. And I think the sort of, esoteric, great varieties I think have not been as much my focus in terms of the tasting other than obviously for Via. So I think having the input from the students who, you know, that's their jam, that's what they're selling. I think that that'll be really fantastic as well. Great. Well, thank you, Sarah. So much for joining us as we wind down today's episode. We'll do our rapid fire quiz, which we do at the end of every episode of Master class US wine market, asking our guests three questions about Italian wine in the US market, and we'll take a slightly more global approach since your background is so varied. So please do your best to answer these questions and just a couple sentences. What is your number one tip for mastering the wine market working in wine? Let's say. I think maybe it sounds obvious, but it's really important to find your niche whether that be the type of wines that you're trying to push into various markets or geographic, and don't overlook the quote unquote second tier cities. I'm based near Seattle and, This is not an Italian one example. I apologize, but, I was surprised to learn how many champagne bars, champagne specific bars. There are in this area. There are at least sort of four in the Greater Seattle area, which I think is is more than there are champagne bars other than hotel bars in, in Hong Kong where I was previously. You know, I was having a conversation with with a an importer here who does really, really niche, grow a champagne. And he said there's one in particular. He's bringing in two containers a year. I mean, that I was pretty surprised. So, yeah, don't don't overlook us second years. Well, to hear that, I Absolutely. There's more than New York and the US. I think that's a great tip for listeners. Number two, sir, what is something you would have might have told your younger professional self about working in the wine industry? Yeah. So I was thinking back actually to my days when I was when I was interning in sales at an importer. And, I think the key thing I would have said to me then was adapt your pitch. I just assumed that everybody I was selling to was as enthused about wine. As I was. And so I go into these long stories about the, you know, the the family history of the wine or how it, you know, how it was some groundbreaking of it. And, I remember one of one meeting in particular where it's like, a Korean a Korean grocery store owner effectively. I can say this because as Stevie knows, I'm half Korean. And he just stared at me blankly. I I told him something that I thought was very convincing and romantic, but he was totally unimpressed by. And I I would have been so much better off had I thought about really what what does he need? Right? He's not gonna be there, waxing poetic, about these wines to his customers. He needs something that looks great on his shelf. So if I could have said, look, this is a wonderful package, it'll be a great gift. He would have been so much happier. So, yeah, think about who your audience is when you're pitching. Yeah. That's a great tip. And, finally number three, we're all traveling a lot in this industry. What's your favorite travel? Yeah. So I try when I have a free night, which is not frequent, but, when I have a night, when I'm managing dinner on my own, I try to go somewhere in the town and tuck myself at, the end of the bar that's sort of around the corner. So it doesn't look like I want anybody to come sit next to me, but I can usually get in a conversation with a bartender, ask them, you know, what what are the wines that people order here frequently? I can spy on people. I can see what they're drinking. And just generally, I feel much less self conscious, right, being sort of talked around the corner. It can almost look like when you work there and people don't don't have that, oh, that that poor unfortunate souls dining on their own, look when they pass you by. So so yeah. Alright. Yeah. I love that tip. And that's also, it sounds like a little incognito market research to understand and listen to what people are drinking and, you know, in in that market. So that's a great one. Thank you, Sarah, so much for joining us today on the Italian One podcast. Looking forward to having you in New York and Mark. Hopefully, I got a chance to see you as well. And, how can our listeners connect with you and, learn about all the great things you're doing in the world of wine and Italian wine? Thank you. So I'm probably not as active as I should be anymore, but I'm on Instagram, at Sarah Heller, m w. Okay. My website is just sarah Heller dot com, and I'm Sarah Heller, m w on LinkedIn and Facebook. Okay. Fantastic. Great. Well, thanks again, Sarah, for joining us today, and, we'll see you in March. See you then. Thanks, Giovanni. Thank you for joining me today. Stay tuned each week for new episodes of Master Class US wine market with me, Juliana Colangelo. I remember if you enjoyed today's show, hit the like and follow buttons wherever you get your podcasts.