Ep. 1861 Charles Lazzara | Masterclass US Wine Market With Juliana Colangelo

The Italian wine podcast is the community driven platform for Italian winegeeks around the world. Support the show by donating at Italian wine podcast dot com. Donate five or more Euros and we'll send you a copy of our latest book. My Italian GreatGeek Journal. Absolutely free. To get your free copy of my Italian GreatGeek journal, click support us at italian wine podcast dot com or wherever you get your pods. Welcome to Master Cross US Market with me, Juliana Colangelo. This show has been designed to demystify the US market for Italian wineries through interviews of experts in sales and distribution, social media, communications and so much more. We will quiz each of our esteemed guests at the end of each episode to solidify the lessons that we've learned. To sharpen your pencils, get out your notebooks, and join us each week to learn more about the US market. Hello. Welcome to master class US foreign market. Today, I am thrilled to welcome Charles Lazara to the Italian White podcast. Charles started Volu imports in two thousand seven at the age of twenty five with modest intentions promoting undiscovered high quality wine producers from Italy back in Colorado. The sale of Volio in two thousand seventeen allowed Charles to dedicate his time and energy to Volio imports strategic expansion to become a leading national importer of Italian wines, as well as spend more time with his family. As a founder and CEO of Volio, Charles is always out networking with customers, wholesalers, and engaging with Volio's network in Italy of thirty plus binaries. Welcome to the show Charles. It's so great to have you here. Thanks for having me. Of course. So twenty five. Wow. That's quite young to start your own import and distribution company. Tell us a little bit more about what led you to starting Volio at the Ignorance is bliss. Right? Sometimes it's better not to know what you're getting into. I started Volio. Basically, it's a byproduct of living in Italy. I was a student abroad in two thousand and two. I turned twenty one. My mom and dad came to visit me. I was living in Florence, and my mom stayed in Florence to basically haggle over leather wallets and jackets for Christmas gifts for family and friends, and my dad rented a car. And said, let's go taste some wine. And, in that day, we we went out to the hills, you know, Florence and Tucanty classical is not that far between thirty, thirty five minutes. And we found our way into one winery. I have no idea to this day. How we found Pojirino in Aradin Chianti Chasico, but we did. It's not like it's on the main drag. There is no main drag in Chanti Chasico, but even to get it to Jirata is is not that simple of a test because you pass by other towns that produce great wine on your way there. So anyway, long story short, we get to Rodin Kianti. We go down the hill, and we pass by once every team on the left. I didn't know where that was or what it was at the time. And there's an open side at Pojarino, and I walk in and meet the owner, Pier Alanza, and his sister, Benadetna, they tell me the history of, the small winery that they own. It also has an agriturismo to it. I just fell in love with the history of the property. Then I tasted the wines and I I literally had this eureka moment and I said to myself, if all wines are this good, this would be a really cool thing to do. And I I said that out loud, to my dad, we were in this little gravel parking lot. That's about got enough space for Bureau's car, his sister's car, and then one more car, and that happened to be ours that day. And he said, man, I don't know the first thing about the wine business, but I what I could tell you is I know that someone's gotta get the wine from Italy to the US, and then someone's gotta sell it. So my guess is there's an importer in the wholesaler and then there's retail. And I would suggest that you don't run a retail store because that means you're not gonna have anything but a dog because you're gonna have to work Thanksgiving and Christmas, and it's gonna be really tough. So maybe it's importing and wholesaling. I don't know. Italian wine podcast, part of the momo jumbo shrimp family. I said, okay. Cool. So I I moved back, at the end of that, you know, session studying abroad. And I always had this idea of getting back to Italy. I've got Italian heritage three generations ago, and so was the whole intention of going to Italy. So I just had this thought that kept coming back up, and I finished my degree in Ohio and, moved to Chicago, had a failed startup business there, and then had another job. And I just I went to my boss at one point. I said, I really I've got this idea I wanna develop and and I'm all of twenty four years old. Can I take a sabbatical? And I've got got left out of a job. And and then I convinced this this incredible person at the time to to give me this opportunity and I went back to Italy. I went back to Piero at Pogerino And I said, I've got an idea. I've got a license to import wines into the United States. I'm on a set up shop in Colorado because I think it's a really cool market. It's got a lot of sunshine. I like to ski and it's growing. This was two thousand and seven. Okay. And he's and Piro says, where's Colorado? And I said, it's between New York and California, and I'll pay you in cash for the first pallet of wine. And he's like, what do I have to lose? You know, that's a pretty good risk reward. And, and so I was very fortunate that, two years later, Piero's wines would be in the top one hundred for wine spectator. I think that he was number fourteen or number six. I forget what to know. Amazing. But I I didn't know how to sell wine. You know, I brought the wine in. I I had a price list that had ten wines on it. I really only had two in stock. They were both from Pierre. The rest of them said coming soon. And I went knocked on doors, and it that's what I said at the top of this, the ignorance is bliss. You know? I didn't know any better. It was two thousand and seven going into two thousand eight, my first case of wine is sold to a small independently owned grocery store called Mars six fine wines, in Denver, Colorado. And the the buyer, she's like, you know, it's the start of a really bad economic period here in two thousand seven. I don't know if it's a really good idea for you to sell wine, you know, like, start a business. And I was like, oh, what do I have to lose? You know? I had a I had a part time job. I was working from six in the morning till noon as a part time consultant that was in a totally unrelated field. And then I'd go sell wine from noon to six PM, and then from six PM to midnight, I'd come back on and, do the online or do the part time consulting, just to pay for the idea that I have, which was, you know, the wine and then to the growth. And piece by piece, I built up that wholesale business from one winery and two wines to about fifteen hundred wines and around ten million dollars in sales, over the course of ten years. And I was able to sell that business to a group called Empire Distributors based in Atlanta, Georgia. And, and then I was able to expand my my import business. So that was in twenty seventeen. So, basically, from two business So that's what you mean to say from from running the distribution business to running only the import business within twenty seventeen. That's correct. Yeah. I mean, so, basically, what happened, you know, producers like Piero from Pogerino or Rivera or even Soldera and some others at the time that I had built up my my import business in Colorado through my wholesale business in Colorado. They were asking me if they could, you know, if I could take them into other markets. And and I wanted to do that. One for protection from them going to someone else that covered Colorado and the other markets they wanted to go into, but also because I I liked the challenge of trying to do what I did in Colorado in other markets because Colorado at the time was an independent market. So every buyer was unique. There were no chains in Colorado. I'm sure there were restaurant groups but retail chains did not exist because like New York and a couple of other markets around the United States, they had limited licenses. So a supermarket chain couldn't have more than one license. Total wine and more can only have one store. And so I had eight hundred unique customers that I had built each one its own unique buying power. And this allowed me to tell the stories of my multi generation family owned, dirt driven producers to each one of these buyers in a way that that their needs, and I was able I was able to grow the business. You know, we would We generated about twenty six thousand cases of Italian wine in depletions. That means that the retailer or the restaurant sold those wines to customers in the course of that year, from zero cases. So that's that's the beauty of independent customers independent buyers because they they can be very reactive. You know, they they can they can taste the wine and make a decision. They don't have to go through layers of of bureaucracy and and also Yeah. They can they build brands. They they can build these small brands that really are the fabric of Italian wine and especially when we get another fine wine business. There's just a lot less to go around. And so it's all about storytelling and and having the time to get in front of those buyers and build those relationships and and build the trust that year over year Right. The quality of the wine is as good as the producer. And would you say Charles that you were one of the first people really focused on Italy so specifically in Colorado when you started your business back in two thousand seven. Or what was the market like for Colorado for Italian? Because as you were saying, you know, every state in the US you know, operates very differently, you know, in so many ways from how the line is sold, how the buyers work, but also just, you know, what what sells and what the consumer's interested in. So talk to us a little bit you know, about the Colorado market for Italian wine because I think it's evolved quite a bit. Yeah. So Colorado back in two thousand seven was it was still a great market for Italian wine, and I for sure was not the first person to sell Italian wine. And and there were some really great import wholesalers in the market and some some really focused and and super smart people. I mean, in in those days, two thousand seven through through two thousand fifteen, really, Colorado had the highest concentration of master sommeliers in the entire United States working in restaurants or in retail or just in education, in in the market. So it it's a really educated and competitive market, and it has evolved. You're absolutely correct. The the timing of me getting into the import and wholesale business in color, the the week that I started, five other people started the same idea. So I I for sure did not reinvent the wheel. But I I had a real connection to Italy in the time that I'd spent, and I just kept wanting to go back to it. I was able to develop this identity through relationships over time that carved out more of a niche. And and that's really the key, I think, is, you know, understanding who you are and developing that identity as opposed to trying to be everything to everybody. And so you had these great great restaurant tours like Bobby Stucki who started Frasca Food and wine in the early two thousands. You had the little Nell. You you have these great accounts that were up and down the front range, which is Denver, for Collins Boulder and Colorado Springs into the mountains of Aspen, telluride, Vail, etcetera. So there's just so much opportunity and and different types of customers, and that was the exciting part about it. It's because as more development came into Denver, more restaurants popped up. So you might have forty new accounts over the course of four months just from restaurants going into new construction in downtown Denver and the surrounding suburbs. So again, my my timing was fortunate, and then it's all just how hard do you work. Right? So if if you're out there and the wides are good and your pricing is good and you're able to build relationships and sustain them, Then there's our market there. So, yeah, I think the quality of the wines were great. But there was a tremendous community that supported my growth and still today supports the wine growth, you know, fine wine education service. It's a really great market in Colorado. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely, I think, especially, you know, since the pandemic, Colorado too, as we saw people move, you know, to more mountain towns, vacation towns like Aspen suddenly became full time residences for people who are working remotely. And you you saw, I think, the shift in terms of people moving out of some of the bigger cities and into some of those areas. And I feel like Colorado is a market that really benefited, from those trends and continues to to to thrive in that way. So becoming a much more important market for Italian wine in general, like you were saying. But Yeah. Colorado's it's extremely relevant in in the Italian wine market. It's extremely relevant in the wine market. I mean, I had the Kermit Lynch portfolio of French wines, and I had a really great portfolio of California wines, Washington state wines, Spanish wines, as a wholesaler. So you learn a lot about, you know, how the consumer engages those different categories of wine. Which Right. Over time helped me be a much better importer of wipes because Yeah. You know the market and you know how independent markets work. And the real big transition is when you go from one buyer for one store who could be really important to your business to one buyer buying for fifty stores or five hundred stores. Right. How much that changes the landscape of of the US market for one winery or for one category of wine. It's really incredible to move from independent markets to regional and national restaurants and and retail groups. It's it's it's really quite fascinating. Yeah. Absolutely. And, you know, Charles, we're gonna talk more throughout this interview about the importance of really not just understanding the US market when a producer's suppliers looking to enter this market, but understanding the nuances be behind the different states and really focusing based on what you're selling, on specific markets. So, you know, let's talk a little bit about that and and Volio specifically. You know, what do you think Volio is doing differently than other US importers of Italian wine? Well, I think that one of the things I learned really the most important takeaway from my my life as a wholesaler was, understanding the difference of being a benefit or a burden to a customer. And and that was one of the biggest takeaways that I've tried to apply to the growth of volume imports and and our expansion as a national importer. And what I mean by that is simply if I'm a burden to a customer whether that means bad customer service or communication. My pricing is is not consistent around the US network. Then all of a sudden, I'm taxing them. Right? I'm I'm asking them to do more for me than I'm doing for them. And that makes my wine not taste as good. It makes my wine look more expensive, and it makes me seem expendable as opposed to trying to be of benefit to them constantly focused on how do I provide meaningful communication How how do I provide consistency in terms of pricing year over year so I can build a brand inside the footprint of either that customer or within the landscape of that category and really engage loyalty in a customer because remember Italy, especially drives exploration. If you're a US consumer engaging in Italian wine, you're really adventurous. And and you have to honor that you know, I have to really understand the customer. There's very little brand loyalty inside European or specifically in import wines from Italy because customers were asking a lot of them to know as much as we think they should know. The labels are are intimidating. The the category itself, Canticlastico, Berneli de Montalcino, Vida Nopuliano, you know, all of them have the base San Giovanni in it, but no one category or no one sub zone. Should or does taste the same. Right. And so then you get into the conversation of Cheroa. Well, how do you help a customer identify what Gioli tastes like compared to Rodin Kianti compared to Berneli Montecino? That's a lot to ask. And and so, you do drive the customer to want to explore more of those categories. They they tend to look at the category of Italy as as a branded house more so than a house of brands. What do you like to drink? I love Keanty classic. Oh, what brands you like? I just love Keonti Glasgow. Right. And so helping customers understand that. That's that's how we need to look more at listening and then being a benefit to them as opposed to pushing information on them. And that's that's the biggest thing that Volio is doing. And the market is is trying to understand how to better engage our customer and how to move that forward because Italy's the long game. You know, France is the long game. You're a pain in port. Right? This it's a knowledge based platform. So it's not transactional. People that are either young, already engaged in wine and have disposable income and wanna spend on an academy with the trust, they're still looking for information. And the baseline of all that information is authenticity in the story. So they don't wanna buy just the label. They wanna learn about the family or the history of the property or what makes this wine stand out that makes me wanna drink it and then come back and buy it again. Right. So being like you said, Charles, that the importance of being the best possible partner to, you know, your your customers as you can by speaking their language, breaking down the knowledge for them working with them to really better understand the category since, you know, even us in the wine industry know how complex the Italian wine category is. I mean, that I think is what I'm really taking away from what you're saying. Yeah. And it's both sides of it. Right? So it's our job because we're in the middle of of the relationship. I have to be able to communicate to our our winery suppliers, the producer of the wine. What's going on in the US market? And the US market is not one market. It's fifty different markets because Of course. Even if you're a national importer, you might only really be the regional importer for any one brand. Because if if I'm successful in Arizona, Texas, Southern California and Colorado. That may mean more to one producer than being really well distributed, but in small numbers across the United States. You know what I mean? So if if they only make three thousand cases of wine, and I could build a market for them in the southwest corner of the United States. They still have a great brand in the US. Right. It just doesn't mean that they're gonna be in every Michelin star restaurant. They don't need to be. Right? They can still be successful. The United States without having to be on every list in every state. And and that's really, I think one of the most important things in our role is communicating with them how we're gonna get there and how long it might take. Because if if you get fortunate if you if you work really hard and build success in a market as opposed to trying to replicate that success in every market, you need to pick markets that behave similarly. Right? So where can if you if you're doing well in Arizona, What are the markets looking at to feel like Arizona? Okay. Let's let's figure out those markets and then build in those like you did in Arizona. And meanwhile, test other strategies in Austin as opposed to trying to fly the same math in Austin, you need to Dallas and Houston. Those three cities are very different. You ask somebody to move from Houston and Austin. They might tell you no. But he asks somebody to move from LA to Austin, then they're gonna say, yeah, let's go. And so it's just it's just trying to figure out how each market behaves and then communicating that to your winery supplier. And on the flip side, telling, you know, talking to your wholesaler about how you've seen customers. You know, what are they what are they asking for? Because the wholesaler sometimes can't find its way through all of that. They're they're really overwhelmed by the number of products they have and the challenge they have with turnover to be able to educate their sales team on the products to help them be successful with your book or the other thirty books they have that are similar to what you've got depending on the size of the wholesaler worth. Absolutely. And so Charles, let's maybe, like, take a, you know, a case study here to help illustrate your point. You know, if I'm a a five thousand case producer, let's say, from let's let's stick with with Tuscany since we've been talking a lot about about county. But from Tuscany, I'm making Tensey classical. It's a family property. I've never entered the US market, but, you know, my wines are good. They're doing well in Italy. I've I have a couple other small export markets. And, you know, I want to I wanna enter the US market. What advice would you give to me? How would I even start looking at how to enter the US market? Yeah. So first, I would get informed on what the US market looks and feels like before a triangle find an importer or distributor and talk to customers. So do your research. What are the most healthy markets or the healthiest markets, I should say, for your type of wine or the amount of energies you can give to the market? Right? Because it's not just about finding one wholesaler. You've also gotta be able to find the time to go support the market. And that's that's the biggest challenge that wineries face regardless of size is If they're really dedicated to farming, beautiful. Right? You need to tell that story, but you also have to have the time to tell that story to the customers. They're gonna help build and support your brand. And so you might just wanna start with one or two markets. That you've learned about that maybe you like to travel to, and you wanna go build relationships there. So what do you have to do? You have to then look at who are the wholesalers? Or are there importers that also act as wholesalers? Or can you be your own importer and your own distributor. And if you have the resources, then spend the time in that market to sell the amount of cases, you are gonna feel make your brand successful in that market. So it's it's really sort of a choose your own adventure book when you approach the US market because success really depends on the amount of time and energy you're willing to put into it. Right. And that justifies the return on that investment. And if you're able to sustain already. Right? Yeah. Because the because the biggest key I've seen this before too where a producer goes in, they spend a lot of time in the market, and they build a really good brand. Then they leave the market thinking that the brand will be sustained because they put one or two years in the market to build their brand, and then they start to lose sales. Well, that's because they've they've given so much support. They've got relationships so closely tied to them. And the people are supporting their brand because they have a relationship with that particular person that when they go away, the sales go away too. And so you've gotta be able to transfer relationships and not just build them. And and that creates a sustainable brand, which allows you to then go to the next market, right, and and build that. So So when you transfer the relationships, you know, what do you mean by that? Exactly, you know, just in terms of Yeah. So so let's just say that, that you built a healthy market in Atlanta, Georgia. Okay. And you've identified that market and you've got a great wholesaler, but you're spending ten days every three months in the Georgia market to help build it out. At some point, you've gotta put the responsibility of maintaining those relationships on your wholesaler. Right. You've gotta you've actually got to give them the responsibility of I can't come into the market ten days every three months any longer. Because I need to go support this next market I wanna go build up. Okay. So wholesale team, I really need you to stick close to these relationships because they're they're driving my business in Atlanta George. I need to do retail tastings, put on a wine dinner I can tell I can still support virtually, but these are the things that really make this business with these fifteen or twenty customers. That's then transferring the relationship to the the sales team and the management team of the wholesaler and creating the expectation that they they keep that business alive. Because if you then go in as opposed to going to Georgia, you go over to North Carolina or you move to Florida because those are good markets and you start to take the dedicate your time there. Something's gotta keep that business going. Right? And and so that's where you need, in this case, Volio as an importer to do that job or the wholesaler to do the job. Someone's gotta maintain those relationships. Right? And and so that's, again, that's part of building the brand. And, that's one of the most critical parts or nuances to the US market Right. Is sustaining it, not just building it. Yeah. Absolutely. And I think what, you know, I think is so critical Charles from what the advice you gave is that focus. Right? And you don't always have to be to ship your five thousand case brand, a national brand. You also don't have to be in New York and Florida on tech and there are some great regional markets that might be worth investing and really building and and investing in, your your partners and your wholesaler there to to really sustain your brand long term. I mean, that's that's kinda what I'm taking away from from what you're saying. Yeah. Producers really get that they need to get invested in education before they invest resources, time, and energy into any one market. Mhmm. And if they're able to sequentially build the market as opposed to expect that when they hire a national importer or a regional importer or get hooked up with four or five distributors that it it signifies some sort of instant success or automatic build. That's just not how it happens. And I I've seen this a lot where a producer would come to us, and we sign them up and we get them into fifteen or twenty new markets. And the expectation is, okay, then I should do ten thousand cases from two thousand cases. Well, that's just not how it works. The market is very slow to respond because the market expects that you come in, build the market, develop relationships, support those relationships, provide education, and then sustain it. And that doesn't happen in three months or six months. Right. You know, the the benefit is really long term. If you can sustain it and build it over time, you've got a healthy brand. And for most producers that are looking long term, they've got patience and focus. It's those that look to the US and see this evergreen possibility in terms of all I I've always wanted to do a million dollars in the US. Okay. But there's there's no one customer that can give you that tomorrow. And and if they do, they can also turn it off the day after tomorrow. And that's as much of risk as it is a reward. Right? So you that's that's where people get into trouble. Oh, I've I've got this really great relationship. Can you help me explain? Well, yeah. I mean, great. You sold some wine to Costco. It's great customer, but that's also gonna turn off a lot of other regional, national, or independent retailers that can't compete on price. So you get great volume, but you're not necessarily building a brand. You're you're building volume. Right. They might not buy the next year if you don't get ninety plus points or sustain the relationship. It's it's not that fast. And and that's the danger. Right. Absolutely. It's not just about moving the product. It's about building the brand. And you have to think about those things together, right, and in conjunction. Absolutely. And, you know, Charles, as we wind down this episode, and we're learning so much from you, thank you for sharing all your advice and your insights. I think there's some some just really valuable advice in this episode, but I would love to hear a little bit more about, your business portfolio and and what the future is for folio. And kind of what's what's on the horizon for you right now, you know, March twenty twenty four. So one of the the most exciting things about Volio for me is it is the ability for me to look long term and not think about the next twelve months, twenty four months, or thirty six months because I need to provide a sustainable next generation solution for our producers that have children coming into the business and might be phasing out their role running the winery or be just concerned about the risk of the US market because there's been so much that has happened over the past four years. Let alone over the past ten or fifteen as the US wine market has really developed. And so Volio's job is to provide a positive outlook and a stable outlook for the US network. And and that's where you can build a brand. So that's the most exciting thing for me and and potentially what Volio is doing differently. I I look back at the history of great Italian wine importers like Marc de Gracia or Leonardo Locacio when he first heard Weinvo. And I think that in the US market today, there's a lack of that focus because most of my my colleagues to their benefit are are spread out. Right? They've got France, Italy, Spain, and domestic in their book. Volio is really focused on just Italy. At a national level. Right. Mhmm. And and to me that provides what we refer to as Volio DOCG. Right? We wanna give identity. We wanna give depth. We wanna provide benefit to our producers, but also be looked at as a reference for our customers so that when they think of Italy, I hope that they'll think of Italy and Volio in the same sentence. And if we're able to accomplish that with our independent buyers, some key regional buyers, and some key national buyers, we've got a really great place to build a brand for some of our Italian wines, and and that's sustainable over the long term. And and that's that's the future of Oli. That's what gets me going every week and and has me excited about the future for for us. Tuscany is exciting. Mhmm. And and always is exciting, Bernelo, especially, you know, if you look at the landscape of Italian wine, this year alone, they may they may seem like small numbers, but they're they're actually quite big. But now they don't want to. Chinos up four percent. IG desk is up three and a half percent in on premise. Right? Canty Glass goes up two and a half percent in the on premise. You're talking about twenty seven thousand to forty five thousand placements in the on premise for any one of these three categories across the United States. And so when you're looking at ten thousand accounts for the brand, but the number of placements is quite broad, there's a lot of people asking for Sanjay. There are a lot of people asking about new categories. And for anyone in quality wine link, that that's that's the most exciting thing. You build brands in the on premise. And I think that that's sort of returned to the classic side of of the wine business is getting in front of Samuel's getting in front of the waitstaff, you know, the servers and providing education so that they can get excited and engaged table side because every Italian restaurant in the United States today has one mission, and that is to provide an authentic Italian experience table side. And so you do that through really cool categories like Marcela or we've got Florio Marcela, telling this really cool story. About that brand. We're talking about brunello de Montelcino and how cool these twenty nineteen vintage brunelos are that are coming out to the market. So there's just there's always something to talk about and not for, you know, there's there's a reason why these classic categories continue to grow within the landscape of Italy. Yeah. And I think there's that education opportunity. Like you said, Charles, right? For the the people working in in the on premise, you have the the summary is enforced, but even down to the waitstaff who's table side. The education not just of the product, but of the Italian lifestyle, the consumption of the product. Like, how do we drink in a marrow? How do we drink a vermouth? When do we drink these wines? And what occasions? Are are they pairing with? You know, we think about, like, the success of the apparel spritz. Right? Cause because it's tied to an occasion that evoked the emotion of relaxation, hanging out on the patio, rooftop, but just that kind of moment of joy after the long day of work. And we taught Americans like the art of the paratees through that. And I think with Italian wine, we have those opportunities too to teach them the art of dining, the art of these these various categories and how they can really create a whole cohesive, meal and experience. Yeah. I've lived in Italy for the past two years, and I live in the area where the spritz was born up in the northeast of the Benito. Mhmm. And I'm telling you it you'll see people drinking a spritz at ten in the morning. I love that. If it's if it's the summer, I was gonna meet with a a buddy. It was nine thirty. And I said, let's go get a coffee. He goes, coffee. It's it's almost ten. Let's go get a spritz. And just the way the way that the people enjoy a spritz or wine in general. It's at lunch, and you have a glass of wine. It's it's an Eperitivo with a glass of wine or a spritz, and then you you transition it dinner. And it's not it's not a ton of drinking when you break it down because you're not pounding the wine, but you're always enjoying a glass of wine. And it's just part of the lifestyle. And it's a really beautiful way to look at wine not as a luxury, not as this really stuffy category of people that maybe a lot of our new wine drinkers don't identify with. It's fun. It's engaging. It's dynamic. It's it's useful. It's all the time. That's that's, again, you come back to the exploration of wine. You know, you can go track a Hertztraminer because it's four dollars a glass somewhere. And you're like, well, that's cool. I've never had one of those. And then you can go drink a a glass of French Accord for and pay twelve and be like, oh, this is delicious. Right? When when we start to do that in the United States and start to think about wine as food, you're gonna ask questions about how is it made? Where is it from? You know, and then why should I drink it? And and that's where you lean back into that happens in the on premise. That happens in restaurants because that's where customers are okay being vulnerable asking questions. Right? They wanna know what's new and and wanna learn. That's hard to learn. Right? You know, what's going on in retail where you're you're getting in an hour. You know, on on your on your grocery list or your shopping list, depending which state you're in again, right, whether you're buying your wine in a grocery store or a wine store. But Charles, as we as we wind down, we like to do our wrap fire quiz on every episode of Mastercost US wide market. So if you can do your best to answer these questions succinctly in one or two sentences, question number one, what is your number one tip for mastering the US wide market? Know that you don't have to be everywhere to be successful in the US. So to find success before you go in. Great. Number two, what is something you might have told your younger professional self about selling Tanya one in the US, although you were quite young when you started, but maybe some advice you might have given to yourself back then when you were just getting off the ground. Stay focused. You know, as as you get to know the category or get to know the business. A lot of opportunities come your way. They can spread you way too thin, way too fast, and and stick to your guns. Know what you're good at, stay focused and be patient. Know what you're good at, stay focused, be patient. Great advice. And finally, we all travel. Sounds like you're probably traveling a lot between Italy and the US these days. What is your favorite travel hack? I guess when it's doing market work is own your own schedule. So I'm an importers who have worked with wholesalers and and then get two customers. And my travel hack for anyone on the supplier side, going into work and market is set your own schedule. Don't let your wholesaler set your schedule because Very good advice. You want that freedom. So rent your own car would be the travel hack. Could probably do a whole episode on that, Charles. Suppiring with distributors. Maybe next time. Well, thank you so much, Charles, for joining me today on the Italian Wine podcast. How can our listeners connect with you? Oh, we're on the internet as everyone is. So Instagram, come check us out, volume imports, same thing on LinkedIn or volume imports dot com, and come check our producers. But find us on Instagram. We've got some really great content there. Email me, call me, do whatever you gotta do, but, I would say be on Instagram because that's that's what the kids are doing these days. Absolutely. Alright. Thank you again, Charles. It's great to have you here today. Thanks a lot. Really appreciate it. Thank you for joining me today. Stay tuned each week for new episodes of Master Class US wine market with me, Juliana Colangelo. And remember if you enjoyed today's show, hit the like and follow buttons wherever you get your podcasts.