Ep. 1953 Scott Thomas | Masterclass US Wine Market With Juliana Colangelo

The Italian wine podcast is the community driven platform for Italian winegeeks around the world. Support the show by donating at italian wine podcast dot com. Donate five or more Euros, and we'll send you a copy of our latest book, my Italian Great Geek journal. Absolutely free. To get your free copy of my Italian GreatGeek journal, click support us at italian wine podcast dot com, or wherever you get your pots. Welcome to Mastercost US Market with me, Juliana Colangelo. This show has been designed to demystify the US market for Italian wineries through interviews of experts in sales and distribution, social media, communications, and so much more. We will quiz each of our esteemed guests at the end of each episode to solidify the lessons that we've learned. To sharpen your pencils, get out your notebooks, and join us each week to learn more about the US market. Hello. Welcome to Masterclass US wine market. Today, I'm thrilled to welcome Scott to the Italian wine podcast. Scott Thomas has an extensive twenty year career in the wine industry with roles as the Sommelier in distribution and sales, and also education. He's the founder of Gropalo wine school in Denver, which offers immersive wine travel, wine events, and structured courses, including Van Italy International Academy, Italian Wine Maestro certification. He is also the wine director at Restaurant Olivia, a pasta focus concept with a very Italian heavy wine list. In addition to being an Italian wine ambassador and an Italian wine educator, Scott is also a certified wine educator. Scott, it's so great to have you here today. Thanks for joining us. Yeah. It's my pleasure. Thanks for having me. Of course. Of course. So we're gonna dive in today's episode a little bit more about the Denver and the Colorado market for Italian wine and education specifically. But before we get into that, tell us a little bit more about how you became such a passionate Italian wine ambassador. Well, I think with with anyone in the wine business now, it's a it's a long journey, but, you know, starting in restaurants and then learning just a little bit kind of crack the door open to learn more. So that set me on a path of certifications and gobbling up whatever I could and tasting as much as I can and fast forward to, you know, years with distribution and sales with lots of exposure from all parts of Italy with various importers, producers, and then being able to travel there. But it really solidified when I moved to Italy in two thousand eighteen pursued a master's degree at a small university in Piedmont, the the University of Gastronomic Sciences. It's a slow food university. And there, I was able to go deeper and and to, you know, go more into the culture of wine. And I I felt like the more I was in sales, the further away from where I started from and why I got into wine in the first place. So I was able to kind of just hone in, be immersed for two years between Piedmont and Tuscany. And then when I came back, you know, just keep pursuing that education, so them becoming an Italian wine ambassador passing that in twenty twenty two. And now, really, my whole conversations of about wine revolve around Italian wine and culture. And I love it. And consumers love it, you know, industry. I just love sharing that passion. Right. Amazing. Incredible story. So, Scott, today, we're gonna really lean into what's happening in Denver for Italian wine since that's where you live, and and you have a few different lenses on that market as both an educator, but also as a Salmoye. So some of our key takeaways for today's master class, and, you know, what we're excited to chat with you about You know, number one, what's happening right now in Colorado for Italian wine? There seems to be some some excitement in that market. Number two, you know, when it comes to education around Italian wine, it's such a complex category. How do we think about location for consumers in trade and the differences and similarities in those two things. And then finally, what do you think is on the horizon future for Italian wine in Colorado? So just to start, give us a broad picture overview. What's happening right now in the Italian wine category? In Colorado and, you know, in Denver specifically where you reside. Yeah. Well, I think in Colorado's a pretty dynamic market. I think, you know, we're not New York or San Francisco, but we are certainly a hip and happening market. We've got a a large population growth of late, which has fueled many new restaurants, which has fueled, you know, more people, which seems like interested in trying new varieties and kind of exploring outside of the norm. It's a market that is full of young people. I would also say that as well, but there are pockets and neighborhoods that are kind of old and historic that are, you know, still consuming, let's say, you know, California wines, but there's a great set happening and and a movement towards, you know, exploration of Italian wine, native grape varieties, new regions, new producers. Fortunately, here, we have a hundred and ten distributors if I'm not mistaken. So we can have access to as many varietals and producers as you can think of, you know, all the main ones. But, you know, there's a lot of really cool, interesting wines coming our way, which gives us many options, you know, as a wine buyer, but also as an educator. Wow. And to the consumer, a lot of options to kind of explore through. The restaurant scene, you know, we had just had Michelin come last year. So we're one of the North American markets that has the Michelin Guide now. So I feel like that's brought a lot of energy and enthusiasm to our restaurant seen at least. Great. Well And, you know, up until last year, really, we were a independent retail market. So large chains could only have one liquor license or Costco's could only have one location or total wine, only one location per se. Which really allowed the small retailer, independent retailer to thrive. And, you know, I think of them as a lot like going into a restaurant and speaking to a sommelier is like these small restaurant retailers had the opportunity to engage the customers and to you know, talk about Italian wine in a really fun way, which really helped, I would say, fuel this passion kind of city wide in a way. So lots of lots of things happening here. You know, on that point, how do you think the market might change now as that retail component changes with the chains. I feel like we've already seen some pretty drastic changes, in a lot of ways. Okay. You know, one, if you're not a, let's say, consumer, you shop only at a certain store, you're only gonna see the same lines on that that no matter which store you're going to because let's say there's one regional buyer and they're making selections, and they're the same across the board. So Right. Unfortunately, you know, there won't be many options in that particular set. Mhmm. We've also seen some retailers, you know, small ones that have gone out of business because of that. Those that were in close proximity to larger stores that now have liquor licenses that didn't in the past. But we've also seen, you know, resurgence of the the small independent retailer, you know, kind of approaching wine sales and engaging their customers in a really new way to strengthen their brands and to continue this, you know, legacy, let's call it of diverse wine selections on the shelf. I'm chatting with a lot of importers lately and distributors. It feels like they have been maybe a little bit more cautious and conservative with bringing on new products. Okay. Just because of the landscape right now has been so What do you think that is? Is that because now there's less independent stores, as you mentioned, some are closing or for another reason. I feel like that's the primary reason. And just the unpredictable bell, you know, it's not predictable what's happening in six months from now and to carry inventories or to launch a new brand or bring in a new producer, let's say, it may be more challenging for the small importer versus the national importer that signs a national deal and contract But, you know, we have many independent rain porters just for Colorado, and that's where we've seen somewhat of a conservative approach of late. So do you think Colorado might move more in the direction of a market? I don't know. Let's say like a Florida or Texas that's dominated more by the chains as opposed to the more indie market that it was, or do you think it'll be able to maintain, you know, the independent market too? I think it's going to be maintained obtaining the independent market. That's my hope and goal. I really feel like it's moving in that direction that we maintain the stronghold of the independence while having a dual existence of the larger, you know, stores in existence too. Got it. Okay. So having honed the dual bond approach. Okay. Right. And I I think restaurants have a lot to do with that too. You know, restaurants and create brands and drive brands and and those, if we're working with a small producer, let's say, hopefully, guests are going to leave the restaurant and ask for it at their independent retailer, and they'll be able to bring it in there and and continue that. Right. Absolutely. That's a good broad picture overview, and helpful. I think for our listeners to understand that what's happening right now in the in the chain space and and Colorado. And that how that might affect the in the Italian category specifically. You also have a big role in Denver and as a, an educator, with your wine school. So can you talk to us a little bit about the foundation of the wine school, who are you serving, who are your students, and just a little bit more about the structure. Sure. It's Grappala wine school, which is the Italian word for Great Punch, right, because I it all starts with the grape. The formation of this came about while I was living in Italy and my thesis for my masters was a a comparison of education and wine regions, let's say. So I had a business plan. I was gonna start a wine school in Alba. That didn't work out due to COVID. I was there during COVID time. But when I came back to Denver, it allowed me the space to kind of think about what was needed in that time. So I would say in person education after COVID fell completely flat. There were very few options. So there was one that was a need And then two, it was something that I've always wanted to do and to share the love of wine, you know, through interactions, through tastings, share my stories of my time there. And it's come about now in a sense that I don't have a physical space, but I'm I have really amazing partners and restaurants and spaces that I'm able to use. And so I work directly with, yeah, the two prongs, let's say, with industry. And consumers both. On the industry side, staff trainings for restaurants, let's say, so kind of elevating the education of the people selling and guests facing on a daily basis, distributors as well, and distributor representatives, and even importers. And then on the consumer side with, from higher to come in and do an event or also my public classes, also going that route as well, which has been quite successful in a lot of ways. So I I've literally feel like this market is quite thirsty for more education and especially Italian wine vacation. And based on my experience with distributors, that reality that it was when I was working with distributors, it always felt like, you know, those who had the most knowledge there, if you're on the streets and you're dragging a bag, that if you had the most knowledge, you know, you were probably going to be the distributor of choice or the rep of choice in because you brought a certain level to your appointments, you know more about that wine than anybody else. And I still feel like that is a really great approach. So my whole foundation was just spread knowledge if you would like to attend. I know you're gonna walk away and learn something, and then that will make you better at your job in the end, hopefully. Absolutely. And talk to us since you're educating different audiences, what works the best when you're educating the trade when it comes to it telling you why knowing just, you know, distributors might have a book of thousands of skews, you know, that they're selling. How do you teach them about Italian in a way that gives them enough information to really sell the category, but isn't daunting or overwhelming. That's a great question. I think we start broad picture, you know, the twenty, you know, political regions. Let's say geography, we're learning about what makes every region somewhat identifiable and unique in its own identity. So if we're talking about Valadosta, for instance, somewhere we're talking about the very unique variety on the very north west, which is Pri et blanc, and what significance it's had there and its historical significance. So I think of providing anecdotes that people can walk away with and remember whether it's the name of the grape, the entomology, you know, the particular characteristics of that grape that they will know no matter what, if you're pulling, a neviolo as a sample and you're showing it that you you should know that, you know, these plastic characteristics should always come through, and that you always look for something that's perfumed, red fruited, maybe a little bit of tar, tobacco, things like that with age. And I kinda approach that almost by region and also by great variety. So my approach is more of, like, focusing on the grape, and then you'd be able to make those associations with the regions thereafter with the DOCs. And you you would know that, you know, Nebula from piedmont is much different from Lombardia than it is from Valadosta with tasting. I also feel like tasting side by side by side is one of the most powerful things you can do and just be able to feel the difference and sense the the the differences and make those own comparisons on your own accord. And same with consumers, I think that's a really powerful way to learn is to taste side by side. A couple examples. Yeah. And when it comes to comparison to things, you know, what are your thoughts on bringing in other regions? So I know, for example, you know, Sicily recently did a tasting at Taubunek or May last October, where they tasted the contrada wines against some some cruise from Burgundy. So what's your thought on that for education of of tasting Italian wine side by side other regions? I think that's also a powerful way to learn too, and and I agree. It's like, you know, tasting Italian chardonnay next to something from Burgundy. You might see a similar thread, but you'll also be able to tell that it's from a different place. There's a lot of comparisons right now between Norella Mosque and Pino noir. And know, not only on the color, but kind of the the mouth feel and the body of the texture. And I think that does resonate really loud, let's say, with both consumers and industry, because as someone who came up through wine, through the French lens, and it feels like most everyone learned that first in a lot of ways. It's easier to make that comparison and draw that parallel between another Italian grape variety. And to be able to, like, say, okay. Well, this is red fruited. It's soft. Then you're starting to drill down to Terawar at that point. If we're talking about Contrada's, you know, specific zones and making comparisons between some of the crew or the villages of Burgundy, I've yet to do that, but I thought sounds like a really fun tasting personally. Yeah. I agree. Absolutely. Sign me up for sure. You know, when it comes, Scott, to what's on the horizon in the Colorado market, thinking about varieties, regions. I know you mentioned Validosa a couple of times, which is where some of my favorite Tallyuwines come from, but what are you seeing getting the trade specifically really excited about Italy at the moment? I think there's just a few things happening, frankly. And and I feel like there's a resurgence of the classic regions. There's the new conversation happening in and around Chianti Clasico with the introduction of the UGGas, you know, the new category is the Grencione. So even if you've been in the industry for years, there's a new conversation that's happening, you know, and and a deeper conversation about, you know, zoneation and learning about the nuances of each zone and using county Costco as a great example is differences between Custom Nova Verandanga versus, you know, Rada or, you know, the higher altitude sites, Gioli, and and how they differ. And I think that's something that's really getting even folks that have been in the trade for a long time really kind of jazzed up again in kind of reinventing what are regions that we've known and where they're going to because there's a lot of a lot happening in Italy And I think if you can make that, you know, get get everybody excited again, let's say, of of certain with the class of regions, especially, will show a lot of, I would think sales, you know, more enthusiasm with the customers, guests in general, that's kind of what I see happening right now. Also, just the introduction of all the the interesting grapes and learning about them. You know, it's when's the last time you tasted a Galiapo from Calabrio or and know that it's probably the offstring of Sanjay, and drawing that connection, and that it's a sibling of Norello Moscow and kind of drawing that line and seeing similarities between three. I mean, these are kind of conversations that I'm having kind of on a daily, weekly basis with industry and consumers alike. Right. And all eyes are on Italy right now. So many people are traveling there. I mean, it seems like it is the hotbed for European travel at this point in time. So it's really easy to open up that conversation on all fronts. So you find that what's working well is getting more hyper specific within some of the classic regions like Tuscany with the UGGas and really drilling down into the regional specifications, like that level of knowledge detail is resonating. Absolutely. Yes. Yeah. Very cool to hear. And I see that in my Italian Y Maestro course. I try to offer that and then tasting comparisons between them. It's just so that can have a barometer of sorts, but it it does resonate across the board, even with consumers to go that specific. You know, I mean, they've been doing it for years in Burgundy, and even in Bordeaux, I think Italy can have that same conversation and that same approach. Very cool. Exciting. Yeah. Well, Scott, this has been a lot of fun. And as we wind down, we always do our three rapid fire questions. So if you can do your best to answer these in just a couple sentences. K. Question number one, what is your number one tip for mastering the US winemark get. Oh, I would say be prepared as a producer, you know, come with education, come with anecdotes and stories of your family or your place, and then try to transmit that knowledge, of course, you know, through the channels. So from your importer, to the distributor all the way down to the decision makers. And then if you can get in front of the consumers and doing consumer events, that's and I think the, creating personal relationships with everyone at each of those tiers would get you a long way. Relationships. Absolutely. We know this is an industry of relationships. Indeed. Indeed. Of course. Scott, what is something you might have told your younger professional self about working in the wine industry? Oh, I would have told myself You should go travel early on. Okay. And travel, with an open mind, try to meet as many people and many producers as possible, and shake hands and, again, create relationships. Early in your career. I don't think there's any better way to to learn about wine than to being at being in the place in which you're studying. Great advice. Absolutely. And finally, on that note, traveling. What is your favorite travel hack when you're doing market work? Well, that's a great question. I always bring an extra suitcase. I bring a small suitcase inside of a larger suitcase so I can come back with regional specific wines that we can't find here and or olive oil. I'm a I'm a junkie for olive oil because I I think it's a similar conversation with wine when you're talking about the varieties. It's really fun to have an olive oil tasting at home and bringing your friends over. Yeah. And it's something that lasts a little bit longer than wine. It's not a pop the cork one and done. Is it something you can enjoy over time? And it's also something you can see progress and change. So I always leave enough space in my luggage for things like that. Olive oil. Great. Love it. Wonderful. Okay. Well, thank you again, Scott, for being here with us in the Italian wine podcast. And how can our listeners, connect and follow along with everything you're doing with Gropalo wine school and, you know, in Denver? I'm on Instagram. It's, the handle is Gropalo wine school. My personal Instagram is, underscore Scott underscore thomas underscore why no, and you can find me on socials, LinkedIn, things of that nature. Yeah. If you're coming to Denver, please visit at restaurant Olivia, and we'll taste a lot of cool things. That's for sure. Okay. Amazing. Thanks again, Scott. Pleasure. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Thank you for joining me today. Stay tuned each week for new episodes of Master Class US wine market with me, Juliana Colangelo. I remember if you enjoyed today's show, hit the like and follow buttons wherever you get your podcasts.