Ep. 2058 Italian Wine Trends with Jeremy Hart Pt. 1 | Masterclass US Wine Market With Juliana Colangelo

Who wants to be the next Italian wine Ambassador? Join an exclusive network of four hundred Italian wine ambassadors across forty eight countries. Vineetly International Academy is coming to Chicago on October nineteenth is twenty first. And while Mati Kazakhstan from November sixteenth to eighteenth. Don't miss out. Register now at Vineeti dot com. Welcome to Mastercost US Market with me, Juliana Colangelo. This show has been designed to demystify the US market for Italian wineries through interviews of experts in sales and distribution, social media, communications, and so much more. We will quiz each of our esteemed guests at the end of each episode to solidify the lessons that we've learned. So sharpen your principles, get out your notebooks, and join us each week to learn more about the US market. Welcome to Master class US wine market. Today, I am thrilled to welcome Jeremy Hart back to the Italian wine podcast. For those of you who don't know, Jeremy, in two thousand twenty one, he co founded Psalm dot ai, and he today holds the role of the chief strategic marketing officer. Jeremy is dedicated to pushing the beverage industry's growth and promotion through data enhanced methods, and we're really excited to learn more from him on today's episode. Jeremy and I will be doing a three part series that you'll be hearing over the next several weeks on what's happening in Italian wine in the on premise market in the United States. We'll be diving into what's trending in terms of varietals, regions, the rising popularity of island wines from Italy, and, of course, the ever present topic of non alcoholic wine, like it or not. So, let's get to it. So first part of this three part series, the first interview today, we're gonna focus in on trends in Italian red wines in the on premise. But before we dive in today's discussion, Jeremy, just refresh our listeners on what SON dot ai is and the methodology behind the research and the data. Certainly. So, Sammy, we've been around for, since January twenty twenty one. Essentially is what we do. That's as far back as a data goes. A little bit going back to twenty nineteen and touching twenty twenty. But over time, essentially, what we do is that we target wine list. And so we do it online. We have some that we do in person, but for the most part, ninety nine percent is done online. When we find a wine list, we we we capture it. We lock in everything that's on that wine list. And then we go across all the wine lists that we have, all the places that we target, all the restaurants, every two weeks, and then we track all changes going across it. So the big masterpiece to making all this work is a massive, database of understanding if it's on a menu and it's Kavino and it's Khanoubi. That's a Barolo from Piedmont. That's Nebula. Right? And so all of those things are locked in when we see those names. And so, you're able to chop up information. You can understand trends, whether it's via vital, region, country, producer, all of those interesting things. And so, that's that's kind of the secret sauce to it all. Very cool. And when you say, you know, calculating or classifying a barolo as Nabiolo, is that being done manually, or how are you, you know, especially in the world of Italian wine where things are labeled so many different ways. How are you classifying on the back end? So we we have a massive database. We basically scurry everything that's on the internet. Right? And from that point on, that's where the AIP comes into play. We're able to sort. We can go in there. We can re tag if there's something that we see is wrong or pulling differently or whatever it is. But we use probability to understand what it might be if we sit on a line list and maybe it's two words when it should be eight words. And we'll also use headers and things like that so we can understand exactly what we're looking at. All in all, I mean, it's it's very, very accurate. And then if there's anything that we're gonna be going there and refresh or change, we do. But this long over time, as many eyes as we have in the platform now, it's it's it's really drill in. Very cool. Very cool. Well, thanks for the refresher of Jeremy. It's helpful just to place us in context for today's conversation. So for this episode in part one, we're gonna dive into trends in Italian red wine and the on premise. And our three key takeaways for this episode are number one, what Italian red wines are trending in the on premise? Number two, where are we seeing some of the largest shifts in consumption in Italian wine and the on premise? And finally, what are some predictions based on today's data for the future, of Italian red wine in the US market? So for starters, let's lead with whatever ready. You probably wants to know. What is the number one red varietal in the on premise in Italian wine? Nabiliello, which is really, really interesting. And so, I'm I'm really glad that this is one of the ones that we're doing. It's gonna be a Italian red rider. They're just Italian bridles in general. To me, this is like one of the magic pieces that data can help answer a lot of questions. Right? Because if you look at trends, whether we're looking at Barolo, Barbara Esco, Gatunaro, whatever it might be. Right? We're still gonna individually look at those places as as as individual places and individual wines, which they are and they should be. But in America, people drink bridally. Right? Yeah. So, like, they wanna know if it's a cab. They wanna know if it's, you know, someone on and so forth. Whatever. Right? I think a lot of the success of Pinegresia of the years has been that it's an Italian wine with Pinegresia on the label on the front label. Right? And so this is a really neat way of looking at things. As far as, the wines that are on trend are really the most prevalent as far as place. Navielo's number one, Sangiovese's number two. Redboard Oblends is number three, which I think, and these are ones that are on the ones right now. So Right. Red board Oblends are number three, and then Super Tustins are number four. Those are all slightly up are significantly up as far as, the last year in growth. So Nebula is significantly number one as far as placements. That's also the most on the rise. So I think two point eight percent. Right? The the total amount of placements of what that, equate to is twenty seven hundred placements in the last year. But overall, so there were a number of placements that they had. That's a two point eight percent growth. Number two is gonna be, Sanjay. Number three is gonna be the red border avoidance of three point three percent, and the number four is gonna be the super tuscan blends, which is four zero three placements. It's one point five percent. The really interesting thing to me with these is that these are all premium. Right? There's nothing here that's that is is gonna be on the low end for the most part. Yeah. You know, multiple channel, right, or even like, you know, anything more even something more value driven. Right. That's actually interesting. The next one behind this, and this is what I was getting to next was, real authentic wines that are true Italian as far as, like, since a place in a style to a variety without oak, you know, or at least not a lot of oak. Monapochiano is number five and then Norello. Mosquilesia is number six. And that's where the rise is sicily. Right? There's so many things going on right now that are making it popular, but Yeah. We're gonna talk more about that in our our part too, an island wines. Yep. And so I I think that that's a really interesting kind of thing for premium wines to be on the rise right now, everyone kind of sees it. And it is a real spend. As we talk a lot about the downturn in the economy and people spending less, it's like what we actually see in the data and the numbers, it it's quite the opposite. Right? And let's talk a little bit about the price points we see in these top wines. I mean, the data shows us that you know, the average bottle, of Naviolo is a hundred fifty dollars on a wine list. And then, you know, with the Sanjo Vazze, a hundred sixty dollars to one twenty five for the blend. So there's quite a range in this top five varietals and Italian red wines in terms of price points. So, Jeremy, talk to us a little bit through what you're seeing there. Yeah. It's interesting. I think as a flavor profile, these all kinda hit that same thing. They're big, big, wines typically oat. So they appeal to the American big red drinker. Right? But they are still at a premium category. So I think that it is kind of interesting thing. There is a swing between it. I think not Nebula carries a certain amount of weight because of you know, Barolo and those things. But now because of that, people still lean towards NetBLO as being like, if they can get it, you know, twenty dollars a class, they're pretty happy. You know, regardless of what it's lagging in Abiola or where it's from. And so a kind of interesting thing that all of these are still viewed as premium on the palette. Mhmm. Is there any regional trends? Like, when you, you know, you're we're talking about Naviola and the popularity. I mean, with that growth and that percent, you know, two point eight percent growth over last year, like any particular markets that you think really contributed to that growth, especially as we think about palettes and stylistic patterns around these these varietals. Yeah. I think that, kind of across the board, it's where I mean, I remember seeing Langate Naviolo and, like, I don't even remember when it was. Maybe twenty sixteen. Something like that has something get start to see around. I think that it's now gone on long enough to where people I've become more accustomed to it because it's not an audit anymore. It's like any standard producer now makes one. Mhmm. You know, it's like the Normale Verolla. Right? As far as like, oh yeah, that everyone does that. Even have the cruise, all of that. Now everyone does that, declack definitely to whatever you wanna call it. One of the biggest shockers out of all of this is looking at Nebula as far as data is that the biggest two producers by placement are both from Barbara. And that's of all producers for Nebula yellow. Right? And we'll try those producers. Gaia is number one, and their average bottle price on a wine list is six hundred bucks at number one. Right? That's failed. But it's their Barbara that has more placements than their Barillo. Right. But just Nebula as a whole. This is the cool thing about looking, you know, looking at bridally and Italy. The number of food producers product at Tory. And so they have about thirty four hundred placements and their average price point on a wine list for their Nebula yellow is one forty one. Interesting. Very interesting. Okay. Why do you think that is? Do you think it's it's pri the price point of a Barresco is just more palatable, you know, mind the pun? But what do you think is is contributing to Barbara's popularity over gorolo when it comes to the Naviolo segment? You would just never think of it. I think Proddatorre is one of those producers that just does a tremendous job, you know, and they have, a line of wines that are pretty affordable considering what they are, even though they're pretty much. Right? And then Godley just transcends everything. You know, there's and I'm not here to, you know, just salute Gaia, but, like, if there's a DRC in Italy, it's Gaia. You know, it's even close. You know? So brand recognition when it comes to DIA. And then with the Portitory, perhaps it's it's price point or accessibility by by price point. Yep. And so check this out. The number three producer for all of Nebula, right, is a a single producer as as Vietti. Right? Which is tremendous wonderful wines, but they're at one sixty and they have thirty one hundred placements. Right? The number four is Covino at one eighty with twenty four hundred placements. So you look back at guy on that fifty four hundred placements and their average price point six hundred bucks. Wow. It's it's so far ahead of everything. It's wild. The average price of Barolo just FY is one seventy five on a wine list in America. Okay. Compared to our average on Nebula's one fifty. So we're, you know, twenty five bucks more on on the Barolo versus the overall Naviolo category. I mean, you know, what I take away from this data and what you're telling us Jeremy. I mean, a couple of things. I think, you know, we're seeing people gravitate towards varietal and Nebula really becoming more of a a staple, probably especially in steak houses and Italian restaurants, of course, And then we're seeing that the power of brands with with Gaia, right, in in terms of what they've been able to do in the market and their investment and building their brand here. I think that's what I'm really, you know, taking away from some of the things that you're saying to us right now. Yeah. It's it's very interesting. I think once you hit kind of a certain tier, and this is kinda I think a lot of people would agree with us or say it. You know, it's not like it's not uncommon knowledge, but once you really hit that tier and you become the premium producer, it's like, you're cashing your own checks. And the marketing takes care of itself. It's just like this self fulfilling prophecy, you know, because Yeah. You can afford it at that point to judge it or put it in the same realm as something else. It always gets that third or fourth consideration whenever you taste. You know, and Right. Lines are built to last thirty years. It's hard to judge them immediately and say, this is wrong or right or whatever. So anyways, Nebula is a nice category to be in if you can be in it in Italy for sure. Yeah. Absolutely. For sure. And then let's talk a little bit about some of the other categories in this list. You know, we look at San Joveza next. So what do you think's happening there with San Joeveza coming in at number two with one point four percent growth? I think that we're leaning back towards purest. You know, this goes back to people like to drink bridally, right, in the US. I know that stylistically, if it still says County classic or whatever I might say on the front of the label, people lean towards that. And the really interesting thing is that a lot of the IGTs in the past, like, what, six, seven years have leaned back towards doing a hundred percent Santa Facey, but calling my GTS. You know, people, they look at it and they're like, oh, that's great. That's a Supertusk. And through data, we know that that's a hundred percent Sanjay. Right? And that's what we're typically gonna ask and categorize and ask. And so it's nice to kinda be able to see through some of that stuff, but I think that the IGT, because you really look at this, the Sanjay Vazy blend, the Supertuscan blend, the red border blend, all of those, you know, can fall within those categories of what they're they're placed under the hundred percent SanJaveZ. And so I just think it's that big red. Right? The SanJaveza is capturing all those various styles, Supertuscat, etcetera. Yep. Got it. Of course. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, we we see in the news, oh, people are drinking less. They wanna drink lighter. But then when you see the data, it's like, actually, they're drinking big red wines. Right. It's I think really important to, yes, pay attention to trends and what people are talking about in the news, but never forget to also pay attention to what's actually happening in the market, you know, by looking at datasets from tools like Sonnet dot ai to see what people are actually drinking and and purchasing. It was actually making it, you know, onto the wine list. So, I think that's that's super important. So, you know, obviously, Jeremy, we're we're talking here Naviolo. Stangiovese, Verolo Kianti, like, very well established categories, varietals, obviously not always. It took many years and decades to establish these regions, these categories, these wines in the US market, and and a lot of investment from some really leading producers and brands. Right? But what would you say if you had a crystal ball might be the next big red, like, if we're talking in five years, if something's surpassing Nabiole, number one, on your data set. I would probably say it's gonna be some form of, Corvina blend. You know, that's gonna lean more towards the IGT style. People like valpolicella wines. They do. Yeah. Well, it's, it's one of those areas that is when you look at purchasing, obviously it's very well represented in the red style. Right? But as far as the average drinker, they really lean towards it. And, I think that there's a lot of brand recognition there. And so I think that that's gonna be the the next big thing. It's gonna be those ones that have a little bit of more low or whatever it might be in it just to get that super tuscan label on a vanilla wine. You know? Right. Yeah. That's interesting. I well, that's a surprising answer, actually. I wasn't expecting that. But I think the more I think about it, you're right. I mean, you know, that Benito, the category, it is set up with established very historic family owned brands that have long histories in the US market. Pallet wise with the blends of international riders like Merlo into the wines. They are palatable to the US market. And, Those wines are comparatively priced pretty well, depending, you know, you can get find some pretty decent values when you look at those wrap with a cello blend. So interesting. Okay. Anything else you wanna comment on, Jeremy, you know, just on this first part of our series on Italian red wines on the on premise. I'm curious to see how everything will play out. You know, there's always some little indicators if this might happen or this might happen. With Italy, it's so dug in on the the mainstays. One of the thing that's kind of surprised me is that you don't see Aglionneko as well represented as I I used to think it was. Sure. Yeah. You know, it might have just been my opinion and, you know, we don't have data from them. You know what I mean? So it's really kinda hard to to think back and What do you mean you don't have data from from them? It's not even Like, ten years ago. You know what I mean? There's just was no one really kinda collecting data. Got it. I see. Okay. You know, but it was always one of those things that was always like kinda mentioned the top four. You know what I mean? If you're talking about big juicy reds or whatever it might be, you know. So, it's it's gonna be interesting kinda see what plays out, but what Americans happen to lean towards? They're gonna be the more kind of, you know, well structured big reds. And That's for sure. Yeah. I think that's that's gonna be the sweet spot for a long time. Great. Well, Jeremy, we'll do our rapid fire quiz. We'll only do this for part one since we don't need to make you repeat the same, answers three different times, but first question, what is your number one tip for mastering the US mind war mind market? My number one tip is to keep it simple. If you're given the opportunity to, you know, write a pitch or whatever it might be or be in front of a a buyer or whatever it might be. You know, whoever you're pitching to to buy your product, close with interesting things that are easily repeatable. Because whatever you say, they're gonna try to shrink it down into even fewer words and by the time it gets consumer, you wanna you know, big juicy red, you know, whatever it might be. Most most placed in the region or, you know, oldest producer, whatever that interesting thing is that locks it up, just keep it simple. Simplify. Yep. I like that. Great advice. Number two, what is something you might have told your younger professional self about working in the wine industry in the US? I really, really, really, really wish I would have collected people's emails. You started a long time ago in the industry that now I don't even know it's too. Yeah. Yeah. It's so funny because like over time, I remember, you know, one place I worked when I initially got in the line, they had a email list and this was back in like the mid two thousands. It was like two thousand people. You know, of serious consumers. And at that time, I looked at it. I was just like, yeah, that's kinda interesting. Whatever. You know, but just would have grabbed a couple here and there over the years of the end consumers. I would add, you know, fifteen thousand contacts now for that. It would have been great. Yeah. Yeah. So collect those emails. There's different business cards now too. Those are those come in handy for sure. And finally, number three, we all travel lots in this industry. What is one of your favorite travel hacks when you're traveling for work? Start with a ball of Persecco in the meeting. It sounds, you know, comical, whatever, but it really, like, lowers people. Like, it makes them very comfortable. This is not a travel hack I've heard before. Start with Persecco, but one I can definitely get on board with. Yeah. It's it's funny. It just loosens everyone up and they're ready to go. You know, at least best sparkling wine wherever it might be. It's great. So, yeah, for, fronts and quarters of where it's at. Gotcha quarter perseco, bottle bubbles. Love it. Alright. Well, thank you, Jeremy. And, for those of our followers, and listeners, they're all not already connected with you. How can people follow along with all the work you're doing at some dot ai? Yeah. So reach out to me. I mean, that's kinda the best way of going about it. I'm on LinkedIn. I do quite a few interesting, you know, benchmarking kind of things or perspective of seeing in data. That's probably the best way to do it, LinkedIn. And Jeremy Hart on LinkedIn. Correct? Yep. Alright. Fantastic. Thank you, Jeremy. Thank you for joining me today. Stay tuned to each week for new episodes of Masterclass US wine market with me, Juliana Colangelo. I remember if you enjoyed today's show, hit the like and follow buttons wherever you get your podcasts.