Ep. 2253 Barbara Fitzgerald interviews Bobby Domenick | Masterclass US Wine Market

And what is your favorite travel hack when doing market work? You said you visit Italy often. So Don't check your luggage. It's very, great. Nobody wants to check their luggage. Yeah. Yes. Amen. Here here. I'm all gonna check that. Get Cara Vasquez told me she's she's not afraid to wash your clothes in the sink. Yes. Absolutely. Especially, you know, with the with the, like, with delays and, like, lost luggage. There's nothing worse than being without a suitcase for, like, three days and Welcome to Masterclass US wine market with me Barbara Fitzgerald. In this show, we'll break down the complexities of selling wine in the US by discussing the relevant issues of today with experts from around the globe. Each episode serves up three key insights to help elevate your winery's presence in the US market. So grab a pen and paper, and let's pave the way for your success in the US. Hello, and welcome to Masterclass US wine market. Today, I am thrilled to welcome Bobby Dominic to the show. Bobby has a BS in hospitality management, our Walnut Hill College in Philadelphia, and he spent the last fourteen years with Vethu Cucchini in an award winning fine dining restaurant on in Philadelphia as Sommelier, buyer, and now wine director. He was also the Pennsylvania state sales manager for Fman Yoda imports from twenty fifteen to twenty eighteen and in twenty nineteen. He was certified as an Italian wine ambassador with the Italy international. So it's always exciting to have a fellow ambassador here with us. So welcome, Bobby. Yeah. Great to have you here. Alright. Thanks so much, Barbara. I'm thrilled to be on the Italian wine podcast. I guess a little bit about myself. I've been working in hospitality since two thousand eight. I got into wine in general working in fine dining, working on the floor and fine dining and working in Italian restaurants is what introduced me to Italian wine. You know, working for Mark Vetry in the Vetry restaurant group in Philadelphia really is what exposed me to, you know, Barolo, Bernelo, Frontier Court, high end Italian wine, and, I was quickly hooked. And, even before any formal training, there was a floor sound position that I was offered at another restaurant, Carlos Doria in twenty ten. And, you know, I memorized the list. I read some Italian wine books, you know, Italianano, wine bible. And, you know, I just quickly started tasting wine and being exposed to tasting, buying, you know, staff trainings and, all that fun stuff that has sort of led me on the path to where I'm at today. That's fantastic. But I think it's fair to say there was something that really some bug that really bit you if you as soon as you took on this new role, we're reading all of these kind of in-depth books about Italian wine and memorizing it. Did you say it was two hundred wines on the list that you memorized? There was probably, like, two hundred wines on the list at Osteria. And before that, I was, like, you know, hosting serving, doing whatever at vetry. And so I, you know, we we were talking always about Italian wine, you know, they'll check dos San Juvezi, pronunciations, the importance where the grapes come from. So I had, like, a six month preview of Italian wine, and then, you know, when I was trying to sell wine on the floor, I had, like, you know, a back pocket of, like, maybe twenty or thirty wines that have tasted or no well. So I was like, oh, at least I can recommend these on this page. As long as I knew one or two on a page, I could, like, get around working the floor. And that seemed to work for the first few months that I was summing on the floor. Nice. Nice. So a little on the job training. Yeah. For sure. I mean, I think that's always always whenever he's doing. Awesome. Well, in this episode, we'll learn from Bobby about specifically how Pennsylvania is different from other markets in the US and the East Coast. So excited to kind of take a deep dive into this really promising market. We'll also learn why Italian wineries especially small ones need to be as reachable as possible so that potential customers can connect with them. And then we'll learn about the importance of staying educated and continually tasting wine and having fun with wine and even visiting Italy. So let's dive in, Bobby. First, I'd love to talk about Pennsylvania. We said lots of promise in this secondary market. So let's talk about some of those opportunities. What are some of, like, the typical consumer demographics in Pennsylvania. Yeah. I mean, Pennsylvania, it's a pretty big state, but it often gets overlooked by the New York market being right, you know, an hour and a half Amtrak ride from Philly to Manhattan. So a lot of producers might not even think about distribution in PA. But, you know, there's two big cities, Philadelphia, on the east side of Pittsburgh on the west side. And and I I think they're both pretty strong markets. I mean, Build Up is more of an established market. A lot of universities here, university of Penns here. There's a lot of hospitals, doctors, you know, some some business, less finance, but it's a pretty big city that I think attracts, you know, people from all over. And Pittsburgh may be less visited to get to Pittsburgh from Philadelphia, it's not easy to get to. There's no fast train. It's a five or six hour car ride. You know, the flights don't make make sense. So it feels more like a Midwest City, but it's still a market worth considering, like, when I was selling wine in Pennsylvania, I I had to dedicate days every month to get out to Pittsburgh and mark the market. And there's a really maybe a younger growing market that's really excited about wine, maybe more in to natural wine, small producers, less traditional style wines, but, you know, it's worth paying attention to. Yeah. Absolutely. So you would say maybe more of the classic type, regions, like, Bruno, Babresco, brunello coming into Philly, but then something a little more outside of the box, in that Pittsburgh area. That's for sure. Yeah. So maybe a great place also for an emerging winery, to take Yeah. So as a state, Pennsylvania is a little complicated. Used to have kind of a monopoly type wine buying procedure. So can you break down, like, does any of that still exist today? And can you break down how a winery can approach Yeah. So, you know, going to Vin Italy and trying to explain to a producer what Pennsylvania is is sometimes complicated, but, you know, it's it's a monopoly state. So there's only really one buyer of wine in the state and it's Pennsylvania. So even though private distributors operate here, and so me me as a a restaurant buyer, I'm ordering from, you know, a dozen distributors every week. I place my orders with the reps. They confirm them, but they send the orders into a state portal. And I have to approve and prepay the orders in the state portal. So the state collects the money from the restaurants. And then the state is distributing the money to the distributors. So they're handling all the money and the funds. So they had control and that they're also controlling the market. So there's no wholesale prices in Pennsylvania So, if you if you ever visit a restaurant in Pennsylvania, you wonder why the wine's more expensive than New York, New Jersey, it's it's because there's no wholesale pricing. So if I buy one bottle of Prozecho or, you know, a hundred bottles of Prozecho, it's the same price. And that's really benefiting the state, not necessarily the consumer or the restaurant tour or even the distributor, but for, for the state and the you know, the funds it collects, it can actually take care a lot of things statewide. And it for, you know, on premise at restaurant, but also the retail environment, there's really no lovely retail wine market in Pennsylvania, not really. So the state is really in charge of all the the stores. And to get wine in a state store, you're presenting wine to bureaucrats in Harrisburg. The capital. But they also have big, big bio power. So they they can buy containers and containers and containers of wine from wineries. So for, you know, it's it it could really make a small distributors business and a small winery if you have the right partners. You know, if they they're looking for something particular, you know, they they hear that Bernelo twenty twenty vintage is gonna be good, and they're trying to get their hands on as much Bernelo as possible. It, you know, they it could make a big difference if they're looking for ProZECO, they could buy, you know, three containers from our producer serve. So they have the opportunity to make big buys. It's just how to present wine to the state is a little bit more complicated. And I think no knowing the right distributors is is probably the key to that. Yeah. So it sounds very similar to, like, you know, for example, LCBO in Ontario, which a lot of Italian wineries do work with. So maybe they do have some experience with this kind of difficulty or just barrier hoops, I should say. And so you mentioned though that there's not necessarily a great retail market. What by that, do you mean, like, there's not a lot of variety or there's not a lot of demand from the consumers? No. There there's definitely demand from the consumer. I would say the you know, walking into a state run store, but they're called fine wine and good spirits stores. It's not like a lovely experience. I imagine well, I know it, you know, in in San Francisco, LA, you can find these really boutique style stores. That are specializing in New York, you know, I have my favorite wine shops that I don't wanna visit there. That doesn't necessarily happen in Pennsylvania. Recently, they they loosened up the laws to allow a particular license, like a grocery store to start selling some bottles, But again, without the wholesale pricing, it's, you know, the grocery store is buying the wine for the same price that the state's buying it for and then putting a markup on it. So going into these shops, then the wine is just at a price point, almost like a restaurant. Oh, this would be. So then that's the that doesn't make too much sense for a savvy buyer. Yeah. And I, you know, recently, you know, in the last five or six years, they did Pennsylvania really loosen their direct shipping policies, so it made it easier. For consumers to get wine that way. But do you foresee maybe any change coming in terms of of the retail buying, any change that, you know, he's mentioned it kind of benefits the state. So Yeah. I mean, it's it's wrapped up in policy and politics. So you know, all the parts of the government would have to agree to make this big change and then the public would have to get behind it. And there's a lot of, you know, union employees at the stores. So I think the biggest argument is is how to keep these people's jobs and you know, like, there's so many employees and and then the big revenue number. It's just it's just a big mess that I don't know if they necessarily would wanna get into this again, but it's it's there now and how to undo it properly is is challenging. But having said that there are better stores than others, like, you know, like, being a restaurant, every restaurant has to have what's called a home store that you're aligned to to get your spirits from. And sometimes certain wines are only sold into this channel of the state. Like, for example, Susakaya is a highly allocated wine all over the world, and it makes sense for Susakaya to sell, you know, let's say the sixty cases are giving Pennsylvania, directly to the state rather than put them with the distributor and have to sell them over the course of the year. So if Susakaya gets allocated to the state, the only way for me to get Susakaya is to know when it's going to hit the store I can buy it from and go down to that store and grab it. Wow. And then so, you know, the store I go to, there's what's called a wine specialist there, and they'll text me when certain wines come in, like, you know, Cessicaa, a Tiniello, or an Alaya, you know, those kind of high end wines are are popular and, you know, not only do I want them, but there's probably, you know, retail buyers that want them to. And sometimes the the prices can be a little bit competitive compared to you know, like, if people are looking online dot com or, you know, because you can find those wines on the internet too. But if they end up on the state store shelf, it might be at a slightly better price. Yeah. And that's nice to know that, you know, they kind of work with you to make sure also that you're getting wines that'll really be of value to your restaurant because you have some special location. Yeah. I mean, definitely. I mean, people are asking for those wines and and looking for them. And, you know, certain stores get better wines, you know. So you you can go to in store and find, you know, some of the Bernelo producers that we visited, for example, like Laissini Bernelo and Chachi Bernelo, and, you know, they'll have not just Lamarket Prozecho, but there might be another Prozecho that's of, a different quality and size production. But it's not every store, and it's not as, like, lovely, and there might not be the person there to guide you into a nice recommendation. You might have to be a little bit more savvy of a shopper to know what I ought to go down and know what to look for. Interesting. You kinda mentioned a little bit about Tinanello and and Susqueh and brunellos, but what styles of Italian wine are doing particularly well in your market? I think you know, the fresher, little bit lower alcohol style wines are getting more popular with a younger generation. You know, maybe people entering the wine market that don't have, you know, the the kind of budget to buy sesqui tires. You know, and every vintage that comes out, it's more expensive. So but, you know, less expensive wines, lower intervention wines, organic wine. People are thinking about, you know, like, as as popular as, you know, people like to go to whole foods and are considering what kind of groceries they're buying. They're being also considered about the average choices. And I think that falls in line with wine and So that really resonates with a lot of people. Like, when when we're talking about wine, with the staff and on the floor, we're always talking about the the style of farming that producers are considering and what they're doing in the vineyards, and that seems to resonate with guests. Also about being very particular and considered about your choices. Yeah. And would you say that's guests, like, across age ranges, not necessarily just younger guests? Yeah. I think so. I mean, we're we're getting a much more distinguished guests at Vetry and and the other restaurants, but, you know, so I think all all of our guests are maybe a little bit more in tune and and educated about their choices, but it's, you know, I think people buying wine are also a little bit more educated. Like, when they make a step away from a cocktail to try. Why? And that's, I think, a really important decision. Yeah. Definitely. So can you think of maybe, like, a particular region of Italy or, like, a doc or a doc that doesn't really have a strong presence in your market yet, but could do really well? Well, I'm always particular to Sicily. And I think Sicily in general presents a really good value. And I think in the past, fifteen, twenty years. They've been much more considered about the wines that are coming out of Sicily, you know, the Cecilia Doc, Aetna Doc, Charaswolo, you know, Fermato, Nernavala, Abriela, all all those wines present so many really good values and an opportunity for people to try. You know, grapes they never heard about a really good price point. You know, under twenty dollars on a shelf is, like, so easy to, like, risk that for your your dinner that night and maybe you find something and fall in love with something and and go down, you know, a little wine path and bike. Oh, I love the sicilian wine. Let me try other sicilian wine. So I think more sicilian wine on the shelves would be, yep, Alright. Okay. Listen up, Sicily. Alright. Let's shift gears here a little bit and talk about discovering and and learning about wines. So, of course, as a buyer, it's really your job to know what's out there beyond just what a distributor might bring to you. So what would you say is the best way for you to discover Italian wines? For me, I like to go to Italy. So but not everyone can go to Italy. You know, I think being part of the Via organization is tremendous. So I think if if anybody has any interest in a timeline and has been working with the timeline for a while, look into becoming a timeline ambassador taking the vehicle course because not only will you get to meet a timeline producer, but you get to meet this whole network of great individuals. Like, on the wind trip that we went on, there was only one other person that worked in a restaurant, like I do. And there was a dozen of us. So the the jobs that are available to work in Italian wine are, like, endless. But to, you know, to think about wine, discover wine, you know, I'm I'm tasting wine all the time with distributors. I'm going to wine tastings, like, you know, I've never been to wine spectator tasting, but Antonio Galloni hosts the Venice icon tasting in New York. I'm buying an industry ticket for seventy five dollars. I'm taking the train up there on a Saturday. I'm tasting wine, like, that tasting. I tried backfinches of Fort Elaya. I tried Limakiele. I met the owners. I met the owners of Castella Diama. And I tried new vintage of the on behalfante, like, you know, knowing what's happening in your market, I'm also a subscriber to the Gologna site. So, you know, buying the next vintage of Sisakai. I've never tasted it. Beyond DeSanti. I'll check reviews. I'll check ratings, following certain people on social media that are always tasting wine. YouTube videos, Italian wine podcast, like, listening to podcasts, checking YouTube, you know, being curious about wine, you know, drinking wine with dinner, like, making the whole notes, yeah, keeping a journal about wine. All all these are really helpful for me. Yeah. That's a fantastic. And back to Via VINitsley International, it's a great way, obviously, for those of us in the trade to connect with producers, but also a great way for producers to connect with the trade. Yes. Yeah. So it's kind of like delivering Italian wine hungry people to them. And I wanna talk a little bit, you know, sometimes it's difficult for smaller wineries to have, you know, multiple outlets by which they're reachable, you know, whether it's the website or social media or things like that, but you have a really great story that kind of highlights, I think, the importance of why. And no matter how small you are, like, make sure that somebody can get in touch with you. Right? Yes. Yeah. I mean, I think you know, the producer doesn't have to have the best website. It's helpful, but, you know, responding to an email, a phone call or or being active on Instagram or social media to have a way for somebody to get in touch with you than being responsive is really important. So the wine that I discovered that I'm still in love with is from Octaviano Lamrooski from Colo de Louni, Vermontino. A phenomenal wine. I must say. Before Pennsylvania, they said they had only ever had distribution in California. So No wonder because I've had it many times. You've had it. Yeah. It was going nuts. And, you know, most of it was just sold up and tap up and down the coastline of of Tuscany and Magoria to the restaurant. So some are twenty two. I'm in Varete, Joe. I love this seaside town because it reminds me of the Jersey Shore but much more glamorous black beaches. And I we have four or five days here, and every day at the beach club, we have lunch at the beach club, very organized, civilized. And so I'm on an admission to taste a different Vermentino every day. So Vermentino for lunch, Vermantino for dinner. And the last night, we're at this amazing restaurant called Da Romano. It's, not on the beach. It's it's off inland. A few, maybe, you know, a few blocks, but, They were the first restaurant in Italy to get a Michelin Star, and they specialize in seafood, and there's this old, old world glamour to this place. And so we're ordering Verintino and I asked the Psalm, and she says if you've never tried out to be on a Liberty, you have to try So we tasted it at dinner. Amazing. This is July twenty two. I'm with my distributor friend, Fred Bancada, who I used to work for. So Fred's on a mission to find Octoviano. So he's back in October, calls on him, you know, they're not really interested in selling any more wine. They're actually out of wine because they're tiny. I think he goes and visits them. There's no wine available. So April twenty three, I organized a trip with Vetry Psalms a couple of my service captains or vetry or or buyer from Vegas or buyer from Fiergella, and we go to Italy. And on the trip, you know, Markridge sponsored our flights, Fred Van got it paid for the van. We we put together this group. We all split the hotel rooms. On this trip, our mission was to stop at Oteviano Lamruzke and try and convince him to sell some wine to Pennsylvania. So we we get there, and the granddaughter's there, and there's no more wine left. We're in April. The wine's sold out. Fabio, the the sun arrives, and there's no more wine left. But then Octobiano gets there. And so we start to have a conversation, and then he invites us up to see the vineyard. So we, you know, get in the car, drive up the hill, we see Costa Marina Marina. We see the Vermentino, we talked about, the struggles with, with, you know, the past vintage and irrigation and all sorts of stuff. And by the end of that conversation, there was a little bit of wine for Pennsylvania. Just just a little bit. So somehow I found a little bit of wine for Pennsylvania. And that was the start of the relationship with the distributor MPA. You know, I I might be a little selfish, but the entire allocation went to Vetry. We put it on by the glass. I'd like to share the story. Everyone in Pennsylvania. And then this this year, we got the twenty three. There was more wine available for Pennsylvania. You know, we got the allocation of the three crews. May maybe next year we'll get the Rosay. So, you know, that I think that's a really great example of you know, be being persistent a little bit, but also, you know, I think the best part about wine is the relationships that people can build. So, you know, I think the fact that we all went there was our chance to get the wine here, but also for them to understand and have a trusting partner Yeah. They understand that you really value their very precious product because as we said, they don't make a lot, but they want it to be sold by people that really care about it. Yeah. Sure. We just spent a few days together in Montalchino for Benvenuto Bernelo, which I'm sure we could talk about that for an entire episode alone. It was so such a wonderful opportunity. But can you, from your perspective as a wine buyer, explain why these kind of experiences are important for business development really along all points of the chain. So definitely, yeah, for producers and importers, wholesalers, distributors. But as you mentioned, you know, the our wine industry professions were so varied. But, yeah, from your perspective, why is this important? Well, I mean, I think the exposure to so many producers at Ben Bernardo, and also that that event was so organized. It it was really, really, you know, the consortium did such a great job at organizing it. And there was a lot of people involved in different social media platforms, which I think they understand the value of exposure of a label and a brand and people talking about the wine and the vintage. But, like, you know, for us visiting producers, tasting Bernelo that has never been in Pennsylvania's I I think some of the wineries are small and may maybe the wine hasn't even been in New York. A couple of the producers I talked to, their wine wasn't even in New York. So the the opportunity for those producers to be exposed and have you know, distribution in one state, two states, multiple states, I think it's tremendous. Yeah. And just driving home again, the the point that the wine industry really is a face to face business. And Yes. You know, it behooves us to to get together to meet each other to go see the places where the wine is made. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like them sharing their stories with us, sharing the story with everyone else. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I just have a couple more questions before we start to wrap up So we know we've talked a little bit about why it's really important for professionals to continue to learn about wine. But what are some of the ways that you continue to learn about your consumers? Well, I worked the floor. So First, yeah. Yeah. Talking a guest. Yeah. It's it's probably the best the best way. I think also going to these different types of wine tastings, like the Venus tasting in New York, other trade tastings that they allow not only trade, but also private consumers into, you can see what other people are tasting, discovering, enjoying is a good way. Yeah. So you're really good at taking in data, you know, on the spot, seeing kind of people's reactions and facial expressions and yeah. Yeah. That's probably that's probably yeah. I don't I don't really have any other, like, really no strategy to it, but, you know, we No. I mean, that's to be be right in front of them. Yeah. Okay. One last question for fun. What would you say right now? Cause I'm sure your menu changes often, but one of your favorite food and wine pairings currently offered at at vetri. Alright. So there's a pasta dish called Folio deolivo, it's a hand rolled dough. It has a pork ragu. So initially, we thought, you know, something light, something red, maybe nebbiolo, maybe Centroveisay, maybe at dock. But when we tasted it, the chef's Saturday we got these really beautiful apples in. So they added these, snapdragon apples in at the last minute, and it added an element of freshness. It's not a heavy pork ragu, but it's a really sort of fresh style pork ragu. So somebody in the dining room only wanted white wine with, you know, they're doing the wine pairing, but I only want white wine, whatever. So we pour the swabbing classic co from Scottsdale and they were really, really excited about how it tasted. So that was like, okay. Well, let's try it. Like, you know, they tried it even before we tried it. Yeah. So the server let me know, this person was really excited about how the spot they tasted with the regular. So I, you know, hey, chef, we might make it one after service, and we tried it with the suave, the white wine with the pork ragu, and it was perfect. It was the apple brought everything together. Oh, so much. Yeah. Pro suave, twenty one Staforte, tremendous wine. Absolutely. And but I love how both of those have, like, the ragu is is a is a richer rounder dish with, like you said, this apple freshness, and I even find the pro, like, a richer rounder wine, but that, like, mineral volcanic Right. Miner, it's not a heavy wine. It's a rich one. It's still, you know, it's it's got the salinity, the acidity, the minerality. Yeah. So it cuts through the fattiness of the pork and then the apple and, like, the little tropical fruit play off each other nicely. That's amazing. Now I'm starving and it's six thirty in the morning for in California. Okay. So as we begin to wind down, let's it's time for our rapid fire quiz. So we ask our guests three questions to help our listeners better understand the US market and specifically this episode. So just answer in a couple sentences if you can. But what is your number one tip for mastering marketing to the US wine market? Don't don't be afraid to look over the secondary markets like Pennsylvania. Yeah. Like some of the smaller states. And I think the smaller states next to the major markets could be the key to help small producers, even big producers? Yeah. That's a great call out because you like you said, you are so close to New York, and there's so much competition in New York, but a little bit more open And usually, like, where where the big, big, big population densities are, the neighboring states also have big populations too. That's, yeah, good to know. What is something you would have told your younger professional self about selling wine in the US? Don't get discouraged. You know, when I was selling wine, I wasn't a great salesperson because I would get discouraged. And, you know, peep people, you know, you're you're cold calling, you're not gonna endorse. Everybody has good Italian wine in theory. But, yeah, being persistent, go back and try and get the sale, keep persistent, and also do some research and learn about your clients or your selling line too. Yeah. And I think that helps to be persistent so that when you are knocking on the door, you have authenticity and not just you know, a sales pitch. Exactly. Yeah. And what is your favorite travel hack when doing market work? You said you visit Italy often. So Don't check your luggage. Oh, gosh. Yes. Amen. Here here. I'm all through to check that. Yeah. Sierra Vasquez told me she she's not afraid to wash your clothes in the sink. Yes. Absolutely. Especially, you know, with the with the like with delays and, like, lost luggage. There's nothing worse than being without a suitcase for, like, three days. And Alright. Yeah. Well, Bobby, thank you so much for your time. It was so fun to see you again after being in in Montalchino together. And we're just really happy to have you here on Master Class US wine market. So how can our listeners connect with you? Well, if you're ever in Philadelphia, come visit me at Vetri Cucchini. But I'm also on social media and Instagram. It's just my name Bobby underscore Dominic. Yeah. And you if you ever, you know, you can sign in to my DMs and we can correspond via email or or whatever. Awesome. Oh, and I do wanna mention really quickly before we go that, Vetri Cucchini does do wine dinners that are very well attended. Right? We do we do wind dinners, you know, so we have this series called Samalje series, which myself or some of my other songs will lead wine dedicated classes. So this winter, we're doing vinyl alpino wine from the cold Alpine regions. So focus on Altopimante, focus on, Altopay, and they're at our upstairs chef counter. So there's only ten seats. And then when we have producers in town, we'll do producer dinners. Great. So good opportunity for producers to come visit your restaurant. Yes. Yes. For sure. Alright. Good. I just wanted to call that out, but thank you again so much for joining us. And I hope to see you soon. Yeah. You too. Alright. Bye. Bye. And that's a wrap for this episode of Master Class US wine market. Thank you so much for joining us. If you enjoyed this episode and want to stay up to date with the latest industry trends, remember to like, follow and share our podcast. And if you find value in our conversations, please leave us a review to help others discover the show and grow our community. Stay tuned for new episodes every Monday. Until then.