Ep 2336 Juliana Colangelo interviews Elmer Contreras | Masterclass US Wine Market

Elmar is a VP of sales for New York Metro at Frederick Wildman, a New York based importer and wholesaler. He has been in the industry for over three decades, starting his career in the on premise in New York City restaurants. Our three key takeaways for today's episode will be number one, what are the biggest changes that have happened in the on premise over the last thirty plus years? How have beverage programs evolved and changed as a result? Of these changes. And then finally, how is the market today for New York City restaurants for Italian wine and how is the category particularly evolved? Hello. Welcome to Masterclass US wine market with me, your host, Juliana Angelo. This show has been designed to demystify the US market for Italian wineries through interviews with experts in sales and distribution, social media, communications, and so much more. We'll will quiz each of our esteemed guests in every episode to solidify the lessons that we've learned from the episode. So sharpen your pencils, get out your notebooks, and join us this week to learn more about the US market. Hello. Welcome to masterclass US wine market. Today, I am thrilled to welcome Elmer Contreras to the podcast. Elmer is a VP of sales for New York Metro at Frederick Wildman, a New York based importer and wholesaler. He has been in the industry for over three decades starting his career in the on premise in New York City restaurants. I'm very lucky to be currently working with Elmer here at Frederick Wildman, so it's so fun to have him here on the show today. Elmer, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for being here. Hi, Julianna. Thank you for inviting me. It's pleasure to be sharing some memories with you, and I'm very thrilled also to be working with you at the Freddie Walman family. Me too. Me too. Absolutely. So, Elmer, we have a really exciting conversation today. But before we dive in, talk to our listeners a little bit about your background and the evolution, you know, the on premise in New York and your and your first restaurant job in New York. Sure. Okay. I was morning Peru, and I went to school for civil engineering in the late eighties. I decided to leave Peru, and and I took a job overseas, and I went to Italy. That's when I fall in love with wine for the first time. That's when the buck bite me. And I said, okay. I really like this. I got a chance to travel, and I came to the States in September of ninety one. Okay. Wow. In ninety one, September ninety one, after traveling over the five continents. I decided to say New York. I love New York. And I started working in restaurants. So the first restaurant that I worked, and I had a chance because I never worked in restaurants before was Leonard's of GreatNate, a catering call that it was my alma mater for on premise. Wow. Very cool. And and where in Italy did you start your travels? You said you were in Italy. My main port was Genoa and Dana would be in Chivitarekia, you know, not far from Rome. Okay. Napoli and Palermo. Those were my main four ports. Wow. Cool. So you had a north to south experience for sure. Wow. So a catering hall and great knack. What a place to start your career and and look out how it's evolved. And we'll dive into all of that in today's episode as we talk about the evolution of New York City's on premise and how it's impacted beverage programs and and Italian wine specifically. So our three key takeaways for today's episode will be Number one, what are the biggest changes that have happened in the on premise over the last thirty plus years? How have beverage programs evolved and changed as a result of these change as of these changes? And then finally, how is the market today for New York City restaurants for Italian wine and how has the category particularly evolved. So, you know, for starters, Eller, you've been here in New York for decades as you mentioned, working in restaurants starting back in nineteen ninety one. What were restaurant programs like in the nineteen nineties in New York City? Let's start with that game. Okay. It's a very interesting question. I remember the early nineties probably when I came into New York City, many people was talking about the place to be Windows on the world. Obviously, back then. He was working for a couple of years before that, specific bombing that happened. I don't remember the year very well, but he was I'm not sure. He was two thousand, ninety two, probably, or ninety three. I don't remember. But that was the place that people were talking about. You came in Australia was running a really strong program. Also, there were places that start becoming destination places, the Rebecca Grill, one of them. Also, we were talking about David Bolllet coming into into the New York City restaurant scene. We were having Charlie Palmer coming out of the river cafe and opening audio in the so and then I think one of the things that many people were talking about back then was the wine advocate. If I'm not mistaken, that started, yeah, that started probably in nineteen seventy eight. If I'm not mistaken or seventy nine, one, you know, And many people were looking at that as the new testament of wine in matters of unit. It was not easy to grab many samples back then, but people were following what he was saying. Obviously, it was a different style of wines. I think, the most important wines back then for what I remember, more most of the wine programs were mainly, bordeaux, and California, and we're talking about a lot of carne, and Charne, Russian River was becoming one of the appellations also for Charne and pinot noir. And it still it was very difficult to find, you know, wines from Oregon. It was a region that is still people were not into it. Okay. So definitely more more classical regions that that we're seeing in the nineties in the you know, the places you mentioned, Troy Becca Grill, and David Boulay and Kevin's really, you know, really classic, so many a's classic accounts as well, right, very probably more standard fare, American grill steakhouse style. It sounds like from what you're describing was what was on the menu in the nineties as well. In terms of the food? Well, it was a little different because, you know, the main influence for many shifts was the French cuisine. Okay. I think a lot of the reviewers and food critics were looking into the French cuisine as the alma mater for anything in New York City was evolving. Is the beginning also for fine dining. You know, I remember many restaurants looking into table cloth, people using a specific office to be out, you know, men couldn't sit down without jackets. So, are this traditional style restaurant very influenced by French a cuisine, you know, tablecloths, men and jackets, etcetera, a very formal style. How did that impact the sommelier in New York City in the nineteen nineties and how they were designing their wine programs for these restaurants? For what I remember, you know, some of the top player's songs back in the day, there was one master's song that was already working in restaurants and doing very good. Rosetta Gore. Mhmm. And and I remember also tastings. The tastings were awesome. A very accurate way of of of getting to know the new the new faces. The summoners were impacted also by the specific and accurate events that would be carried on by producers. That was a very good way of presenting the wines. Also, I think it was the beginning for a couple of sums exploring more about burgundy other than having two populations in burgundy. Bergen, they started becoming a little more known. I think also the the the the homeowners were happy that back then, the regular consumer wasn't as educated as it is now about wine. So it was a specific connection with with the consumer or the diner coming into the table and have a not a long conversation, but have a specific connections with the consumer and talking about wine. Do you think that consumer was more influenced by the Psalmoyer in looking back at at the nineties than they are today? In New York City? For sure. Yes. Yeah. Great. Absolutely. Okay. So we're starting our baseline in in our journey and history. You know, the nineties, very formal style of dining, heavily influenced by Robert Parker and the wine advocate French very French centric in the cuisine, and it sounds like in the wine as well. But what about the world of Italian wine in the nineteen nineties? We're here on the Italian wine podcast. Let's talk a little bit about that. Well, it's a very good question because coming from Italy and and looking at the Italian restaurants, you know, I I learned that these were Italian American restaurants, not Italian restaurants per se. Right. Probably one of the most influence Italian Italian restaurants in the city was called Barolo and was located on Broadway, downtown back in the day. It was a really beautiful restaurant, and it was mainly food from PMont, you know, a lot of really rich dishes, and probably was one of the most consistent Italian wine programs back then. Also, if we go into Italian American, but it's still very close to Italian, there were three specific places that I love to go. There was one Tomasso in Brooklyn Mhmm. One of the most amazing wine programs. Then we have Mandukares in Long Island City, and at Picola Venezia in Astoria. Of where the places that probably, you know, were delivering the concept back then it was called Northern Italian cuisine. Northern Italian. And and so what were the wine wine list like at those places? I remember Duscany was a Target lease. I think Canti Bruno de Montalcino, an appellation that it was very common back in the night. This was been a nobela de Montalcino. Very difficult to see nowadays. But it was very popular. And then it was the beginning also of the Supertuscans. Right. You know, for people in wine brands where they were mainly Italian Supertuscans were very well comped by consumers who love California, style of wines. You know, that makes sense. That's a a transition, you know, for that palette. That that makes a lot of sense for the American consumer. So, you know, let's let's pass forward now. We're twenty twenty five or five years post COVID pandemic and we're a long way away from from the nineties and and the time period in which we were just talking about. What do you think Elmer have been some of the biggest changes in New York City restaurants since the nineteen nineties? That's a very good question. I've been trying to understand what's going on. Obviously, there are some people that look at the restaurant as an industry, and they have specific business plans, and they can execute it, you know, improper time frames. But then, you know, they're the new players in town. I think, one of the teams is important, for instance, for ethnic food has been elevated. Twenty years ago, it was difficult to see so many Asian restaurants you know, whether we're Japanese or Thai, having a proper program, not only for wine, but also a bar program elevating their service, you know. So having the the the whole concept of what restaurant is and what the American consumer is looking for, you know, in New York, you know, we're always looking for a special service. Customer service is very important. The American consumer likes that. So a lot of restaurants, a lot of, new businesses are are looking into that and they're giving the whole package other than just giving you good food. They're giving you atmosphere. They're giving you, you know, a great wine program. They're giving you the competency ones. You have so many choices, you know, when you go into a restaurant. And also I think, you know, one of the things that I've noticed is that the menus, you don't need to have more food in order to be a better restaurant. You just gotta be very accurate about the menu and have the right choices. And I think owners and chefs have learned exactly what the customer is looking for when you have the right concept. Right. And like you said, where that last part, the right concept, I think we've seen restaurants become more experiential in the way that the customer is coming in looking not just for a nice meal, but they're looking for a vibe for an experience looking at it as entertainment in a way. I mean, I first thing that comes to mind, and I was reading a newsletter this morning that mentioned this restaurant, but Carbone, if you think about the atmosphere at Carbone. It's really providing this experience and this atmosphere of, you know, the old school Italian probably reminiscent perhaps of some of the restaurants you mentioned back in the early nineties, but in a way that's very specific that's very experiential that encourages people to almost dress to suit the style, kind of, sopranos esque, let's say, but in a very elevated way as well. So I think we've seen restaurants like that really take that experiential concept to a different level today? Completely. I mean, being part of that experience, it doesn't matter. The consumer is looking, you know, that waiting time probably is just another element of the charm of the restaurant. You know? Exactly. Yeah. The harder it is to get into now. The the more exciting it is. Yes. You're building up that part. When you sit down at the table, after two hours waiting or carving two negronis or three negronis after, you know, that you're gonna have a good time. And they know how to deliver. So that's the smart part, you know, of the owners understanding, you know, that they need to deliver, even if they people have to wait two or three hours. It's very interesting. Yeah. Absolutely. And how do you think that's influenced beverage programs and and wine specifically this new style, let's say, experiential dining? Like, what do you think that's done to to the wine, osphere, and the wine list? I think some layers and wine directors have more freedom now that it used to be, you know, twenty, thirty years ago in matters of wine selections. Also, I think one of the things is every restaurant has different dishes that make differences, you know, fusion they have been able to fusion cuisines. So therefore, they're looking for wines that are very versatile. Also, it's much easier to talk to consumers because now they in one way or another, they have learned more about the wine vocabulary, so it's easier to connect. And and I think also restaurants that are serious about their wine programs, they have some layers selling wine on the floor. And the wine directors making sure that the business of the wine program, you know, is alive and healthy. Right. Absolutely. And and as you said, there's more dedicated selling days in the restaurants these days. And what do you think is important to them? You're out in the market and your team and working with these buyers every day. What is most important right now to the New York City Sommelier? I think, being a solitaire now is a real profession. It's a real career. You know, it's not a romantic effort that started in the nineties where many of us, you know, went to school for something else, and we found, you know, the the fine dining, you know, as a as a great element, and we fall in love. I think it's a lot of young people that are very passionate, not only about wine, but about everything else that comes with wine. Mhmm. And then, you know, obviously, some of them, they have goals, whether, you know, become writers, some of them, wine critics, some of them, they wanna open their own places, but they're still learning from scratch. And I think I think knowledge is power when it comes to that. It's really good also to see many women in the in the industry now running wine programs. That's very refreshing, and I love also their approach to division of the wine business. It's great. So there's more knowledge. It sounds like you're you're saying, are among both the samoye as well as the consumer when it comes to wine. And people are more experiential. They're looking for more versatile wines to pair with lots of different cuisines as well. What do you think that means, you know, for Italian wine specifically? I'd imagine we we can go expand beyond now the super tuscans and the amino overlays of the nineteen nineties with this new knowledge and passion, but what are you seeing in Italian wine specifically right now in New York City restaurants? Like, for instance, in two thousand, it was interesting to see the law for two specific, regions. One, it was freely where a lot of sons were looking into freely because the beauty of the crispy whites, you know, a lot of people discover Ebola back then, ninety nine two thousand, and also they discover a region in in Sicily even before Aetna where Neto Diabola became very popular. And that this region also was producing this appalachian call Cera Zvittoria. These are the beginning, you know, for for the sum. So I'm talking about two thousand then in two thousand five, two thousand six, two thousand seven, we started looking at Aetna. The way, you know, some of these, volcanic wines came from from Italy. I think one of the beauties about Italian wine, because also with Italian culture, they're so regional, and their wines always inspire chefs, inspired people to drink more wine. I think one of the elements of of Italian wines is high acidity and the high acidity combined very well with very succulent or complex dishes, you know, and they cut through very well. So more so milliliters are learning more about it, understanding acidity and tannings coming from Italian wines. You know, it's it's not very common to see a lot of italian wine that is are cocktail wines. They're meant to be, you know, always with food, and that's amazing. I think you see more Italian wine now in many Japanese restaurants, you know? Yeah. Japanese restaurants. Interesting. What kind of wines specifically you think Italian wines in Japanese restaurants are are succeeding? I really love a language. You know, the ones from Campania when it comes to when it comes to Japanese food, I think it's very fresh and they need something delicate and elegant at the same time. I love the citrus notes. And summer flowers that come from wine white wines from Campania. I think fiano is also another bridal that is really good for that. I think the wine's also coming from Pulia like Verdeka. It is a really amazing white wine for thai food, even even Indian food is amazing with these points coming from the south of, Italy. Indian food. Interesting. Yeah. And I think, you know, Elmer, like you mentioned earlier, the proliferation of ethnic cuisine at the higher end too in New York, you know, brings a lot of opportunity for Italian wine to expand beyond just Italian cuisine. You know, now there's restaurants that are getting on the top list that are of ethnic not just French and Italian. There is a lot of opportunity, but you have to as a brand. So for our listeners, but also, of course, as a rep and a salesperson in the city, think about how you're presenting Italian wines too and not just presenting them in the traditional ways and you know, maybe taking your diners out, your buyers out and customers to different kinds of restaurants, right, to showcase how these wines are pairing with different foods. Completely. I mean, you know, the only way that any region or any wine or now that we're talking particular storytelling wines is you as a buyer, you gotta get rid of that stop sign or red light. Try the wine, see if it works. Understand the business behind the wine, and then make it happen. You know? Right. I think it's a wine for everyone. You know? I don't think it's bad wine. It's just wine for everyone. You know? You pick and choose you like and break it. Yeah. Absolutely. You know, and today also with the on premise in New York, I think it's such a gatekeeper market for the rest of the country in a way. A lot of trends start here in the city, and then they move out west and and to other parts of the country, but so much happens in New York. There's so much influence, so many wine companies based here. So many, so many sommeliers that are incredibly influential as well. Can you talk to us a little bit about the influence of the Somoye, like, just in the rest of the country, you know, in social way of social media and how, some ways today are really connecting and and following one another. I think you just said it, the summoners are the gatekeepers, you know? They are the first ones to taste the wines. If if it's a importer or distributor that gets excited about something, it's gonna bring the wines to the sums, to the wine buyers, you know, and they are the ones that become the gatekeepers of the wine. Depending on on how the summer here works, you know, there are so many years who like to buy wines that probably are extremely young and they don't put them on the wine list right away. They wait to have the wines into their wine program. Sometimes they wait even two years And that that's a commitment, you know, because you're buying wine up in advance and and you're waiting to for the wine to be ready according to what you like or what you feel like, the wine should be. But, I completely agree. Desomeliers in New York City, you go to even to a neighborhood restaurant, whether it's the upper east side or the upper west side, and they have a wine printer and you're gonna get excited because you're gonna see some wines that usually you don't see in every place. So And that that's something that we really need to embrace as consumer as people that are in the wine industry. We need to keep inviting these sums to have no boundaries when it comes to wine and wine regions. Absolutely. And speaking of no boundaries, we've also seen, you know, this proliferation. We know of the the non alcohol, low alcohol movements, you know, in New York City. How how are you seeing that in New York City restaurant specifically the rise of the no low category as it's often referred to. It's very interesting. You asked me that question because I've been trying to figure that myself, what's going on. Obviously, it depends on the community. There are people that have a community about that. You know, like, I talked to a couple of very well known sums in the city, and and they have added some of these wines because also represents revenue and they don't wanna be behind on it. But they still also trying to figure out if this is a trend or is something that's that that is gonna stay and become, you know, part of the everyday business. Right. Me me personally, I tasted it a couple. You know? I'm not a big fan, but I respect people who like these these specific, you know, options. Right. And like you said, the summaries are considering them because they're losing market and they're losing revenue if they're not adding them to the list now because pe because consumers are asking for them. But we'll see, like you said time will tell if it's something that continues into the future or, you know, it it's something of the moment. We've seen so many things come and go. So time time will only tell. Time will tell. I mean, obviously, after a pandemic, you know, I think people are very They're trying to be very cautious about what they're putting into their bodies, and I, you know, we gotta respect that. So Right. Exactly. People are getting more aware about everything that surrounds them, you know, from food and everything else that can make an impact in your health. Right? Yep. Exactly. Absolutely. So, Elmer, I know we we don't have a crystal ball, but as we look forward for Italian wine specifically, anything that you predict might become a more rising trend, you know, you mentioned we had, in the early two thousands, friuli, then Aetna. What do you see as some of the next potential trends in Italian wine and New York City restaurants? I think the old Kiente is coming back. I think a lot has happened with Canton in the last few years. And most important is just not another bottle of wine. There is really amazing to rewind that bottle. The new people are discovery. It could be the entry level, you know, in having pizza. It could be a very complex bottle of wine that's up that's up to you where you wanna be and how much you wanna spend. Also, I think one of the things that I've noticed, and I love is, Naviola from the ops. I think it's very unique expression of a of a varietal that sometimes people mistake as a very heavy bottle of wine. Maybe all of from the ops, I think it's it's amazing, you know, whether it's coming from Carema, Gemme or Baltellina. There are three different styles, and I think Bergandy keeps getting expensive and sometimes difficult to get. I think these are options for the consumer who loves that style of wine with really sweet and firm tannings and good acidity, you know, as as a great option. Yeah. Absolutely. The Nebula from other regions for sure. Great. Those are some really some spot on, I think, predictions and some really exciting categories right now. So finally, just as we wrap up Elmer, we'll do our our rapid fire quiz that we do at end of every episode. So if you can do your best to answer these questions in just a couple sentences, that would be great. So question number one, what is your number one tip for mastering the US wine market? You gotta know your your customer being the business of bringing wine to sell, don't bring wine, you know, to put in the storage. Yes. Bring with people one. Absolutely. Number two, what is something you might have told your younger professional self without selling wine in the US? I think sometimes we look at different pictures. You know, we look at the big picture. I think when I started in the business in ninety eight selling wine, I look at the the greatest accounts or the the best restaurants. And I think, you know, something that I learned is that gotta look at every account every account matters, and you gotta go and build that relationship. Relationship is important. Okay. And then finally, question number three. What is your favorite travel hack when you're on the road for work? Well, obviously, everyone travels different. But I think the most important thing since I don't live in the regions and I go and visit them when I can't, you know, I usually talk to the locals, you know, whether it's a supplier or somebody that that I know in the region. And I try to see what's going on. And then, you know, from there, I make my decisions. Absolutely. Trust the locals. They know best. For sure. Well, Elmer, thank you so much for joining me today in the Italian wine podcast. It was so much fun to have you here. How can our listeners connect your follow along with you. Thank you. Thank you. It's it's been great. It's been fun, you know, to share with you these memories and, you know, looking forward to having more people into wine, you know? Absolutely. Of course. Thank you, Elmer. Thank you for joining me today. Stay tuned each week for new episodes of Master Class US wine market with me, Juliana Colangelo. Or remember, if you've enjoyed today's show, hit the like and follow buttons wherever you get your podcast.