Ep 2343 Barbara Fitzgerald interviews Honore Comfort | Masterclass US Wine Market

Today, I am really thrilled to welcome honor comfort to the show. Today, we're really lucky to have her break down the California wine institute's latest research on younger consumers and how wineries can adapt shifting demographics and market dynamics. So in this episode, our three Key takeaways and what we're really excited to learn from honor are first. What are some of the generational disconnects at play when inviting young consumers into the wine category? Second, how can brands start engaging younger consumers in a meaningful way? And third, how can wineries really think outside of the box, but inside of their budget to take action? Let's dive in. Welcome to Masterclass US wine market with me Barbara Fitzgerald. In this show, we'll break down the exities of selling wine in the US by discussing the relevant issues of today with experts from around the globe. Each episode serves up three key insights to help elevate your wineries presence in the US market. So grab a pen and paper, and let's pave the way for your success in the US. Hello, everyone, and welcome back, or welcome for the first time. If this is your first time to Master Class US wine market. Today, I am really thrilled to welcome honor comfort to the show. As vice president of international marketing for the California wine Institute, honored draws on more than twenty years of experience in international wine marketing, brand strategy, and association management to build the global brand for California wines and promote export sales. Her prior roles included Executive Director of Sonoma County Vintners, president of Black Mountain wine company, and North American brand director for Penfolds and Rosemount Estate. On her holds postgraduate degrees in both business and arts administration and resides in Heelsburg, California with her husband where they grow and make their own wines in the heart of Sonoma County's Strike Creek Valley. So welcome, honor. It's so great to have you here. Thank you. It is such a pleasure to join you this morning. I've been so looking forward to our conversation. Oh, awesome. Me too. And today is March fourth. So it's the first show I'm recording in this month that celebrates women. And I couldn't think of a better guest and honor who's not only a force in the wine industry, but she's also my mother-in-law. That makes it all the more fun. Extra special. Well, before we dive into today's discussion, can you tell us a little bit more on or about your background and how you came to work in the wine business? Sure. Well, you know, I grew up, of course, in Northern California, and I was fortunate enough to be in college right as California's wine industry was sort of stepping into this new generation. And as many college students, I worked in restaurants to help support myself. And I was really lucky to work at a small chef owned restaurant who, was very tied in to the burgeoning wine community and Napa Valley in Sonoma County. And the chef owner insisted that everybody know and understand to be familiar with the wines, and literally that was a great opportunity where I started my journey with wine. And so I fell in love with wines through food. And how, I ended up working in wine after working, of course, in Artsmart marketing and other consumer marketing when my husband and I, when Chris and I moved up to Sonoma County in two thousand. At that point, I recognized that one of us needed to work in the hometown industry. I was fortunate enough to be the first one. So it's been such a remarkable journey. You know, I have, like you, Barbara, I have deep roots in both family agriculture, also being multi generation, part of a multi generation California family. So my role now of promoting California wines and really sharing wines from California with wine lovers and buyers and consumers all around the world is is a dream job for me. So I really believe in supporting agriculture, family agriculture in particular. And, I love enjoying the discovery of wine. So this really is a it's great opportunity. Yes. Absolutely. You're where you're meant to be and what a beautiful thing that is. Well, as we noted, Honor is a really seasoned industry leader who brings deep expertise in consumer behavior, global wine trends, and strategic brand positioning. But today, we're really lucky you need to have her break down the California wine institute's latest research on younger consumers and how wineries can adapt shifting demographics and market dynamics. So in this episode, our three key takeaways and what we're really excited to learn from honor are first. What are some of the generational disconnects at play when inviting young consumers into the wine category. Second, how can brands start engaging younger consumers in a meaningful way? And third, how can wineries really think outside of the box, but inside of their budget to take action. Let's dive in. Yeah. Those are such great, great key points, and it's been it's been such an interesting journey so far working on this initiative. And it really stemmed from conversations at the leadership level within California's wine community back at the end of twenty twenty three and the beginning of twenty twenty four when we were all looking at dramatic shifts in the global wine industry. And that was when the sort of convergence of headwinds really started to become clear, and there were multiple factors going on. And, really recognizing that the wine category as a whole is in the midst of an undeniable shift. A key part of this shift, of course, is how we engage. Not only our consumers of today, but even more importantly, how we build and future proof our audience and our consumer base for the next ten, fifteen, twenty plus years. And, the leadership at Wine Institute asked us to dig into this from a deeper perspective and recognizing that where the real focus needed to be was not addressing as much the immediate market concerns, but really looking ahead. And how do we better prepare the wine sector and the wine community overall for building our future audience? So that was the original genesis of this whole project. Yeah. That's so interesting because we don't have necessarily here in the US the cultural inheritance of wine that really exists in, you know, Spain or Italy or France. But we should because it's such a big part too of of our of our culture and our history. So that really starts to do the work of bringing that into. Yeah. It's true. And then what's what's most significant and this is one of the things that even though I'm I'm, you know, based here in California and really focused on working with the California wine category, I work around the world and work with importers, sommeliers, restaurateurs, retailers that are buying and selling wine to consumers globally, and working with wines from many different regions. And what has been so interesting is seeing the consistency in across markets of some of these challenges. And what we see, and this came directly out of our research, as well as all of our observations and conversations we've been having is that what's driving this is really a fundamental shift in the consumer base, and a lot of this has to do with the fact that now we're seeing this first generation of what we describe as digital natives people who have grown up with access to technology and in particular through their smartphones and, through the internet, they're the first they're now just coming of age and beginning to step into the beverage alcohol space. The way that they engage with the world is fundamentally different from prior generations. It isn't just the way they engage with the world, but it's how they engage with each other. The way they see the world, the way they see themselves in it, the way that they want to learn, be entertained, share information, get information. All of this is fundamentally different. From prior generations. So, you know, myself, I'm what's described a digital immigrant. I've come into technology. I've learned how to use it most of the time, efficiently. But, but it's a very different world. And so as we're seeing the sort of, as we describe, late generation z and younger millennials, they are fundamentally different, but we also expect that every generation coming after them will share some of these same characteristics. So this is really looking less at, like, generational marketing and more at true societal shifts because as you said, you know, going forward these demographics that come of age are going to have these same similar attributes. Of course, they'll have some of their own too. But Yeah. Absolutely. And it really it's it's not about, you know, we use gen z and millennial as sort of handles to you know, make it easier to describe them. But the reason why we're focusing and where we started focusing was on this audience segment at age twenty five to forty five is because that is truly a key marker that was driven by advancements in technology. So that was sort of handed to us in a way. But what's more important is understanding the mindset. The mindset transcends demographic labels or even age categories. And we're seeing as we've been going through this that a lot of our insights and understanding, and also responses on the part of consumers crosses age segment and segments and even goes, you know, beyond this initial focus of our audience segment to core wine consumers that fall into categories of later millennials, gen x, and even some baby boomers. But what I think is really important around all of this is as marketers, we always need to start with understanding our audience. And that's the first part of this and has been a a primary focus of our work to date. Yeah. So you mentioned a little bit. So your research is calling this group of older gen z younger millennial zillennials. Yes. He doesn't love a good contraction. But you've mentioned some kind of key characteristics that are different about them. What do you think some of the biggest challenges are for wineries in knowing how to reach these consumers? Like, where are millennials spending their time and how does that shape how they discover, buy, and engage with wines? Great question. And I think getting back to what I was just saying, it's really important that we understand them at their core and what is driving and shaping their values, their attitudes, their preferences, and also their behaviors. And so if we we go back and we start with the fact that they are so active and and connected to what we describe as their digital ecosphere. That's hugely important. And because they spend so much time in this digital world, that is where they engage and connect with each other. That's where they like to get their information and and also their entertainment, and that's a large part of how and where they spend their time. But because of that, because they spend so much time digitally, one of the key things that they're recognizing is that they're lacking time spent face to face in real life and engaging and connecting with the people that they care about. One of the key sort of findings that that came out of the the research that we were doing, and we did a back in March twenty twenty four. We did a really deep qualitative study because we recognize as we started this project, the first and most important thing we needed to do is get the voice of the consumer into this project and hear from them how they see themselves, how they see the world how they engaged with each other, and it became clear that those things were shaping their values and their priorities because we heard right up front number one that they, they were experiencing extreme financial pressure. This is not news. Right? But because of that. And this was fascinating. Almost everyone that we spoke with had, in addition to their regular full time profession, they had some kind of a side gig, whether they were doing extra design work, or they were working on a on their own startup or driving for Uber or Lyft. I mean, it was fascinating the range of activities that they were doing, but also it was so consistent. And the reason why that we kept hearing was, well, I just need to, you know, have additional income or, we're saving for a house or we wanna get married or we wanna send our kids to a better school, or we wanna have kids, or go on a great travel vacation. So this this sort of pursuit of making their lives better, achieving what they described as their best life had a direct correlation to their financial situation, but also a lack of time and a lack of free time. And so then the time that they had and that they have becomes even more precious. So all of these things start shaping the way that they engage with each other. And so understanding that, what was so I so so interesting to us is it became clear there's a real paradox. That a key part of what this cohort is looking for in terms of spending quality time with their friends, their family, and people that they care about, and doing it in a meaningful and genuine way is exactly what wine offers, and that is the role that wine has played for millennia, essentially. So that's where we started to see this real opportunity that this whole notion, and we termed its connection amnesia, that younger people, but also this is where it started to become clear, like, across demographic boundaries, people are losing that sense of and the value of how important it is to connect face to face, but now they're recognizing that and starting to look for that and crave it. So we called that connection amnesia. And in order to address the sense of connection amnesia, We thought it was important. We see that it's important to help foster opportunities for people to get together, enjoy each other, and that's exactly where wine can slot in. Absolutely. And I think back to what you said just a moment ago too, how the importance of being in conversation with the people you're actually looking to reach. And you said that most many of them were looking for, you know, their best life. Like, they're handing you a marketing campaign on a silver platter. You know? Exactly. That's exactly right. And you know what was so interesting, Barbara? When we talked with them, and we started asking them, you know, about their perceptions of wine and the wine category, and we were expecting the worst. Right? We were expecting to hear sort of like negative perceptions, etcetera. And that isn't at all what we heard. What we heard was exactly what the wine sector has been saying for decades. That wine is special, that it plays a unique role that it elevate and makes an occasion that much better that it is the natural accompaniment to food or dinner with friends or when your, you know, in laws or parents come over. It was and so it was so interesting. We're sort of scratching our heads in terms of like, okay. They're telling us what we've been saying. So why is it not a part of their lives? And then what they kept making clear to us is they said, well, we think wine is is great and really special. It's just not for us right now. I don't have time for it. I don't have money for it. It's just not part of my world, and that's where it became evident that the way that we have we, wine as a category has been reaching out to consumers for decades is a disconnect with the way that these consumers engage with the world and with each other. And so that's where we get back to in order to connect with these consumers, we need to better understand not just what they value, but where and how they spend their time. And that's where wine needs to be. So then where and where and how are they spending their time? If what, I guess, the the question then, like, you know, what's what's the action item for a winery? Like, where how should they be shifting the way they're bringing trying to to meet this audience. And so that was the next step that we took because we recognized for us to just say, you just gotta show up where they are. Like, that's so easy to say. But, yes, we need to we need to be much more clear and specific and start to get granular. So we've been working with a team that called Vitoria. It's Bobby Sowers and Danny Sullivan, they're based up in Portland. They both used to work with Widen and Kennedy, which is widely recognized as one of the leading advertising and marketing agencies in the US. They now work on their own, and they are what they describe as connection strategists. And this is really a combination of doing, of consumer research and media strategy. So it's one of the key pieces of being able to do exactly that, how to better understand them. So the first thing that they did was we wanted to dig in a little bit more deeply into understanding this audience. So they work with databases called yougov. It's more than twenty six million people worldwide. Or actually in the US, the segment of yougov was more than twenty six million people in the US. We then segmented starting with, age and then household income, whether or not they were already in the beverage alcohol category, which was important, and then based on some key lifestyle indicators to basically get to our audience of exactly who we wanted to reach. And in the US, being the largest wine market in the world. It's also the most diverse and the most representative. So we got to an audience of nine point seven million adults that fell into this category of who we wanted to connect with, and then we dug in deeper. To see what they're interested in, how they spend their time, where are they? And that's where we started to get some key insights. So for example, one of the things that has always been a key correlation with wine consumption, of course, is an interest in food and beverage overall. Right? But with this audience, what was so interesting and what we saw is that they over indexed, so relative to the general population, they over index in terms of their interest in food and beverage, but the way that they're engaged with food and beverage is very, very different. So, for example, they index at a hundred and fifty two percent, meaning they're more than fifty percent more likely to cook at home than the average adult. So if that's pretty standard, but then if we look a little bit more deeply, They also are more than two hundred percent more likely to go to food festivals and events. So what that means is that this is a group that's not happy just or satisfied with just picking up their copy of bon appetit or food and wine magazine and reading it on the couch, they want to be hands on active and engaged. So they will spend the money, spend the time to go to events and activities and be hands on. So if we start from that understanding, for wineries and wine brands, right, we all partner with and work with foods through our marketing, right, whether we do food pairings or food references on our tasting notes, etcetera. If we are want to engage with this audience, we need to rethink our approach a little bit and provide opportunities for this audience to feel that they are truly engaged in the process. And able to be hands on and face to face. So how does that translate into real activities? Well, the way that I tend to think about this is in terms of different categories within our marketing platform as a wine producer. Right? So we have hospitality. We also have our marketing communications. We have our social media. And so if the key insight is they're really interested in food, But they want to have a more genuine connection, then if we're pulling in or working with a chef or a producer, bring that person in their voice, who they are, and and engage with them a little bit more directly. And so there are ways that we can put this into work. So if you can think about, for example, and I apologize such a long answer. No. Not at all. But in order to get granular. We need to get granular. Right? Yeah. So thinking about, for example, currently, and we'll just take the hospitality example of offering a food experience on-site at your winery. Currently, a lot of wineries will have, simple wine and food pairings, and often will work with local producers. So creating an opportunity for these guests to, on occasion, meet those producers. Or even go on-site and get behind the scenes. So one of the things that's that another key insight that goes along with this with this audience is that going behind the scenes and finding that secret insight that, next level that insider access is hugely powerful and really valuable. I think that's a great call out. I mean, we even see that in, you know, content that that performs best on social media and no longer is it just like, you know, beautifully staged photos, but it's very kind of like raw. Like, this is what was happening while that staged photo was being captured. And they wanna know what's really going on? One of the things that we've also been doing in order to get to this next level of insights is looking at, so within a specific category, we've been we have been looking at this audience in terms of multiple lifestyle and life stage categories. So coming out of that Ugov research, there are, like, key qualities that really define this audience. And, for example, in addition to their, like, highly involved and engaged level of interest, in food and beverage. They're also really focused in on travel and international travel in particular. They're extremely curious and looking for more information and, and looking to their their online communities to learn more and and engage more. They also index extremely high in terms of a level of appreciation for aesthetics and design. So across all aspects, so not just fashion, but also graphic design and visual engagement. And if you think about it, it makes sense. They spend so much time in this digital ecosphere. With all sorts of new images and design and energy and action and color coming at them. That's what they're looking for. They're also deeply engaged with live entertainment. And live music. So, again, they highly over index in attending live concerts, going to comedy clubs, going to the cinema. So they're seeking cultural engagement and striking this balance of their virtual world and in real life, they're looking for it equally. And so again, what I see is a key learning for us is that we can blend both digital experience and in real life experience to engage and capture this audience. So that's another important factor for us as we're building out our our marketing plans. Yeah. Absolutely. And when you talk about some of these other spaces where people spend their time outside of the digital escape, like a comedy club, you know, for example, I've never seen a comedy club that doesn't have a two drink minimum. But wine is never an option. So, like, this is a perfect place for wine to show up. Exactly. You know, one of the other, again, finding, to your point, finding these opportunities that combine these trends and values that this audience is engaging with, those create opportunities for wine. So one of the hot trends that we're seeing here in the US, but also around the world are night markets. This of course stems from Asia, right, where night markets have been a big part of their culture for a long time, and they are vibrant. They're full of food and opportunities to, as well as shopping. Right? So it sort of combines multiple interests. Here in in California, and San Francisco has great night markets that are evolving. And they can serve alcohol, but wine just isn't a part of that yet. That's a great opportunity, and that we can lean into. That's where it's, as you said, starting to think outside of the box, but within your budget is a key approach. So so we're in the process right now of breaking this down and providing some, like, immediately actionable steps for small producers, medium sized producers, and large sized producers, right, that we have different scales of resources, whether it's time, money, or people in order to start to implement this. But one example is if you, as a producer, you plan to participate in five events a year and you tend to go to the same ones, because they're important to your business. Perhaps consider taking one of those and not doing it and looking for a different opportunity and looking to looking to participate in events that align with other key qualities of your brand, but in a fresher different way. So just as you're saying, whether that's through entertainment, right, or aligning with food, some night markets are a great example, but lots of other food focused events and activities and and opportunities. So it's it's almost endless as in terms of options. It all starts from from taking a different perspective. And starting with what's the end result that you want to achieve and using that to drive choices that you make as a marketer? Well, actually, I would say so, you know, the whole purpose of our show is to help Italian wineries understand how to have more engaged consumers in the US, although that applies to anyone looking for more engaged consumers in the US. So this research, the fact that you did focus so much on US consumers is really helpful for people to be able to start to step in that mindset that maybe isn't their own natural mindset. As you mentioned, the US is so diverse. Even my I don't have a you. I have a California mindset. I don't I don't have the same mindset as somebody in New York. Even. So Yeah. Abs absolutely. So some of the other things, again, in terms of getting back to your question of what are some things that we can do differently? You know, interestingly, Mitch Frank recently wrote a piece and wine spectator and talking about the current environment that we're in now for wine. And he says, you know, this his basic point is this didn't happen overnight. It's something that we as a category have created over years and decades. And part of that is because we tend to all work in the same spaces. Right? We work with the same writers. We work with the same websites. We go to the same events. And so if we want to engage with this audience in a new and fresh way, we need to pull ourselves out of and away from some of our entrenched activities and practices. So ways to help us do that is we've also, again, I mentioned working with this team Victoria, they've been sharing and showing with us some of the places within this digital ecosphere that we're using as case studies to learn from in terms of how they are engaging with this audience. So one a great example. And we're looking at and comparing different websites and platforms, really, that very successfully connect with this audience. So one great example is tasty. Right? This is website that is filled, the whole focus is creating sick and sixty second videos that are all on how to cook or prepare something delicious. And these are done by real people in their own kitchens, They're quick. They're snappy. They're fun. They're, as you said, raw authentic. And it's just this constant flow of information. Like, that's such a great model for wine. And if we think about one of the other challenges, that we hear all the time is that it's difficult to get into wine, and the sort of the barriers to entry are high because it's confusing. It can be a little off putting. It seems so vast. If we take this approach of of thirty second or even sixty second fun quick videos with the the people in the places behind the behind our wines, breaking it down, making them accessible and fun and easy to understand. That's a great entry point. So we've been spending a lot of time on tasty. Right? See you. That sounds awesome. What works? It doesn't another great example, because we are talking about how this audience loves to be engaged with food. There's a site and a whole platform called Secret Food Tours. This is one of the fastest growing travel companies in the US. Their focus is in cities around the world. They create curated tours for either individuals or small groups to go behind the scenes of a city's food and beverage culture. So you don't just, you know, go to the cool hip new bakery or tapas place or ramen bar, but you get to go into the kitchen, meet the chefs, meet their producers, really get behind the scenes in a way that you wouldn't be able to do on your own. And what I love about this is it unlocks sort of a or it enhances and satisfies this audience's desire for travel, as well as authenticity. It satisfies their need to, like, get that insider knowledge And it also creates this incredible opportunity for these chefs and producers, some of the unsung heroes of our culinary world, to become the stars. And I think we can take that same approach Let's if we as wine producers focus on taking our unsung heroes that are a key part of making our unique wines and working with our remarkable vineyards, and we make them the stars. That's a great, right? That works for both of us. Yeah. Absolutely. And like you said, this is it dives back into that appetite also for diverse experiences. But I think that's one thing too that people who want to have success in our US market need to understand is that, you know, it's not just that our market is more diverse than than most others. It's that it's getting even more diverse than it ever once was. So don't come here just with know, don't just offer, you know, steak and red wine, like, think outside of the box to give them an experience that is really unique, really niche. Yes. Absolutely. You know, we were just last week having a conversation with Evan Goldstein. Master Sommelier and has been a leader in wine and food space for for decades. And we were having a conversation about, first off, how the dinner table has completely changed. Right? And today, it looks like a coffee table or it looks like the kitchen counter or, you know, the way that dinner shows up, it can show up at your front door. And so the way that we are eating and and sharing food is totally different. But even more importantly, the remarkable mashup of cultures and cuisine is so exciting and, very healing and engaging, because to your point, again, this audience, one of their highest values is a sense of diversity and inclusiveness. Right? They want people to feel welcome to be a part of what they're doing, but because of the rate at which they engage with the world. And if you think about their social feeds, their digital world, the constant stream of information, they have this almost onset this appetite for change and diversity and newness. And the, you know, this world interesting fun world of cuisine really satisfies them. And so I think on us, again, it creates this great opportunity. Because we wine overall as a category is remarkably diverse if we think about the range of varieties. And then, of course, well, you layer in regional variation and vintage variation. So we have an almost endless supply of options. And how we can present wine and show it really working with food. But I think then the final piece in all of this, Barbara, that's so key is rethinking the words we use and how we communicate with this audience. And, you know, it was also interesting. It was part of that same conversation, Elaine Brown was, you know, we were chatting, and and she was so great. And she said, you know, one of the most important things that the wine community needs to do is stop talking and start listening. And her whole point was we are so a and I agree with this, and we heard this really clearly. We're so accustomed to starting from. Let me tell you all about our wine. Let me tell you about my family. Let me tell you about the vintage. But this audience, they that isn't necessarily what they want to hear. And so we need to understand what they're interested in and start from that perspective. Yeah. Are interested in food in a really cool, interesting, creative way. That's where that's a great jumping off point for us. Absolutely. And I think too, if you come at these these interactions, really just from the perspective of almost kind of, monologuing a little bit on, on a platform, you miss an opportunity for some very basic consumer research. Because if you listen to them, they will tell you exactly what they're after, what their preferences are. You just have to make space for them to have that opportunity. That's absolutely right. And I was chatting with a a smaller wine producer, and she was talking about the fact that one of the ways that they've one of the key things that they've focused on is making certain that their team their sales team, whether it's in the winery or out in the field looks like the audience that they're trying to reach. And it isn't just and she said, you know, it isn't just about looks. It's really about mindset that they have the same mindset values language and approach. And so the consumers, they understand the audience that they wanna connect with, and the audience can see like, oh, this is a brand, a place a wine for me. You know, she said it it was so great the way that she described it because it seems so simple, but it was definitely a key strategy, and it's been very important and very effective. And she said that because of the the fact that they've started with their team and including, you know, generation z and younger millennials and having a a diverse team themselves, that it's really flowed all the way through their, their wines and their brand in terms of the language that they use, whether it's face to face, the way they've written and designed their tech sheets, the way that they write their social media posts, and the social media that they're on. I mean, all of the all of these pieces, and and I think that what's really important is that this doesn't need to be a wholesale change. Right? And, you know, going back to the fact that we heard directly from this audience that they really value wine. They recognize the specialness and that wine plays a really important role. So we don't wanna change that. We don't want to you know, look or feel like a spirits brand. We wanna hold on to and convey all the things that make one unique and special. It's just using the the language, the the language that we use and, again, the places that we show up. Yeah. I think, actually, in a previous episode, Holly Hammond's number one advice for better engaging with younger consumers is to hire them. And I thought, like, Of course, like, bring them to the table, give them a voice within your company so that the way you present yourselves externally too can can meet those can meet those values can meet those preferences, those behaviors. I agree with Paul completely on that. And I would say the number two piece of advice would be if you want to reach and connect with younger consumers, look at where they're spending their time. And then learn from those places. Right? So whether it's where they're spending their time in real life or whether there's where they're spending their time virtually. There's so much that we can learn from and apply even in small ways We've been approaching this from the perspective of this is, you know, this is not a short term fix. This is really as a category. Why needs to adopt a a mind shift and think differently because the audience that we're working to reach not only today, but for, in future years, they're fundamentally different. So it isn't about making this audience come and look like us in our world It's how do we understand their world and fit seamlessly into it. And the good news, the great news is that I believe we have all the resources that we need already existing. Right? We've got remarkable characters and people with tremendous stories. Right? And we've got really interesting things to share and tell about where and how wine is made and the people who do it. And we align with the things that this audience is really interested in, food, entertainment, engagement, and most importantly spending time with each other. So as I like to say, we've got all the ingredients. We just have to bake the right cake. Yes. Yeah. I would agree fully. I would say, you know, especially, like, I mean, we're biased, but, like, what industry has more intangible assets than wine. You know, like, there's so much about it that just, you know, you feel warm inside, but also we now have so many tangible assets, like the ability to deliver highly se segmented marketing, you know, the digital tools that also makes this really possible. We have all the pieces. It's just, like you said, figuring out what ingredient and what amount. Yeah. So, you know, I also think another important piece of this and a great opportunity is starting to break out in terms of the partners that we work with. Right? And that we, as I said earlier, we tend to be very entrenched. And for good reason, right? We've been working with, and we will continue to work with writers and journalists and people who are knowledgeable about wine and engaged in wine, they're an important part of our whole landscape, and we can have the opportunity to start to look towards and work with those that are shaping perception and, and trends and ideas in these other lifestyle categories that this audience is really interested in, whether it's architecture or fashion or women's sports, I mean, it's really kind of endless, and making certain that wine can be a part of that. So whether it's expanding the influencers that we're working with and engaging with, also how we work with them I think is really important. And to your point, ensuring that wine starts to show up and has the opportunity to be on the list to be a choice in the entertainment space. So one of the other things that we've really been focused on is there's so many opportunities. Or there's this huge trend in the US moving away from dating apps. Right? And it's like This has been documented in terms of the decline of engagement. And instead, younger people are looking to find ways to meet each other in, you know, in real life. And so running clubs is one of these huge trends. There's an enormous one in New York City that every week they get together The rule is if you are already in a relationship or with someone, you wear white and if you're looking to meet someone, you wear black. And so everyone, they have a, you know, a course that they run, and then everyone goes and meets up for drinks afterwards. Right? And it's, like, sort of a great natural way to just hang out and meet people. But what's interesting is that, you know, where they're heading everyone goes out and has a beer, but that's a great opportunity to have wine be a part of that because if what they're looking to do is meet and connect, that's where wine really is is is Yeah. That's where wine does its job best. Exactly. Exactly. So there are a myriad of ways that we can start to activate this. That's the step that we're in right now and really breaking it down and providing assets for everything from really sort of step by step or, you know, if you can only do five things, hear things to think about, approaching it from the multiple marketing pillars that we as wine marketers work within, as we mentioned, hospitality, communications, sales, material, and collateral our people and our sales app, and, of course, our social media and our communications directly to our customers. We don't have to change all of it at once, but we can identify perhaps one are two areas that we can make it a little bit of a change or start to shift. And this also really varies by, by brand. How important is reaching younger, you know, a younger audience to a brand, and that really varies. Based on each brand and their positioning. Yeah. Well, quick question before we start to wrap it up. Where will these assets be available to just your members, or will they be widely available at some point? Great question. We are right now building a portal, an online portal for wineries to be able to access all of the information behind this strategy. So we'll be sharing, of course, the research and the insights coming out of that research. We'll be sharing the, strategy documents that really goes in depths with the thinking and the detail behind the strategy, as well as insights in terms of how to put it to use. And then ultimately, we're also sharing creative assets that wineries can use if they want and if they want to put it to use. But most importantly, our whole goal with this is really to oh, so that portal will be live by the end of March, and we'll be sharing that. We'll be sharing it initially with Wine Institute members and then making it more widely available and working with regional associations. Because the goal is we want everybody to be able to benefit from the research and the insights and the strategy that we've been putting together. And we recognize, you know, one of the motivations behind this is that we recognize that a lot of wineries and producers don't have the resources to do this kind of work, whether it's time or people or money. And so we're doing this for for our the broader wine community and presenting it in a way to help people understand it and put it to work in their own marketing and communications. So that's our that's our real goal. It's not about building visibility for work that we're doing. It's really trying to drive more people to everyone else's brands Yeah. So we can all. And that's amazing. Rising tide, lifts all ships, the most maybe special thing in the wine industry. Absolutely. Thank you, Bob Mendavi. Right? Yes. Oh my gosh. You have given us so much amazing, amazing insight. And I, like, I'm sad that the conversation has to start to wrap up, but alas. Well, this is an ongoing conversation. Like I said, we're going to be sharing resources and insights and assets and tools, really creating an online toolbox for wineries to use. Yeah. And we'll be continuing to communicate about this through the spring and then ongoing. And, also creating a consumer facing website where consumers exactly this audience and designing it in a way that's appealing and engaging and hopefully we'll become a part of this digital ecosphere for this audience that we're trying to reach to pull them into this incredibly rich, diverse, fun, interesting world of wine. And show them where and how wine can be a part of their lives. So we'll be launching that this spring as well. Excellent. That sounds I can't wait. Very exciting. Well, as we start to weigh down, we like to finish up with a rapid fire quiz where we ask our guests three questions to help our listeners better understand the US market and specifically this episode. So please try to answer in a couple sentences if you can. But what is your number one tip for leveraging a new narrative when marketing wine in the US? To start from the perspective of the consumer that you wanna reach, understand who they are, what they're doing, and what they want to talk about. Absolutely. Make it all about them. Exactly. Okay. Wet number two, what is something you would have told your younger professional self about selling wine in the US? How important it is to step outside of our lane and consider working with partners that are beyond the traditional wine community and expand our set of partners, whether they're writers, marketers, events, activities, venues. That's what I would have done. Great advice. And speaking back, going back to kind of what you said about, how can we engage new people as engaged the people that they're already speaking to. Exactly. Exactly. And because this audience is so curious, they are hyper curious, and that really works in our favor. So lean into that, but make sure we're doing it in a way that this audience is open to. And then it looks sounds and entertains them in a way that's that that they're looking for. Awesome. Alright. Our last question, which is very practical. We all move around a lot in this industry. So what is your favorite travel hack when doing market work. Well, one of the things, you know, we so often land in hotels that have the little coffee makers, etcetera, and we also spend a lot of time on flights, and we're all dealing with time changes. So I I have two. My number one is I always pack herbal tea and have it with me. So ginger turmeric is my favorite. I always bring my I always bring tea so I have an option for to coffee. And number two, is when I'm flying from the US to back to Europe or to Asia, I always depart where I can have the longest, like, do it all in one leg. Don't leave from the East Coast. Leave from the West coast. Yes. I fully believe that. I'm I'm so here for that. I would much rather, yeah, have a layover in Europe than one in, like, Chicago or New York. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Leaving from DC or New York is brutal. Because of the time change in that short flight. So, please see us in California and see from LA or San Francisco. Yes. Those are my two hacks for you. Amazing. Well, again, thank you so much for everything that you shared with everyone this morning. I mean, all the work that you guys have been doing, over the last year, and what's still to come. But it's so generous of you to take the time to share it with our listeners too. Well, thank you so much for inviting me to be part of this important global wine conversation that you're leading and, sharing insights on the US market and really just connecting with, people who are focused on sharing wine. All around the world. So it really is an honor to be invited. Thank you, and a real pleasure to spend time talking with you this morning. So it's, it's fun to enjoy something that we, we both love together. Right? Absolutely. Well, I always I I mean it when I tell my other guests. I hope to see you soon, but I really will see you soon. So I can't wait. And that's a wrap for this episode of Masterclass US wine market. Thank you so much for joining us. If you enjoyed this episode and want to stay up to date with the latest industry trends, remember to like, follow and share our podcast. And if you find value in our conversations, please leave us a review to help others discover the show and grow our community. Stay tuned for new episodes every Monday. Until then