Ep 2364 Juliana Colangelo interviews Stevie Stacionis | Masterclass US Wine Market

Steve is a community resiliency and brand galvanizer offering content strategy education and inspiration to wine and hospitality brands. Our three key takeaways for this episode on the state of wine writing and how strategic writing can really inform a winery's marketing strategy or our number one, the power of strong writing as the foundation for a winery's marketing plan. Number two, what is the state of winwriting today in the US? What does it look like? In two thousand and twenty five. And then the future of wine writing, what do we think is on the horizon for our industry as it relates to writing? Hello. Welcome to Masterclass US wine market with me, your host, Juliana Colangelo. This show has been designed to demystify the US market for Italian wineries through interviews with experts in sales and distribution, social media, communications, and so much more. We'll will quiz each of our esteemed guests in every episode to solidify the lessons that we've learned from the episode. So sharpen your pencils, get out your notebooks, and join us this week to learn more about the US market. Hello. Welcome to Masterclass US wine market. Today, I'm thrilled to welcome Stevie Staceyonis to the Italian wine podcast. Yes, Stevie Cam is another Stevie out there. Stevie is a community resiliency and brand galvanizer offering content strategy, education, and inspiration to wine and hospitality brands. Steve and her husband owned the Michelin recommended Mama Oakland restaurant and they found it operated and successfully sold two nationally acclaimed Bay Area wine shops and bars. Stevie also co founded the nonprofit Batnage forum for women and wine. Steve also writes the resilience wine sub stack, which advocates for a more inclusive, pragmatic, and holistic course forward for the wine ministry at large, and she's the author of a forthcoming memoir and manifesto about how drinking wine can save the world. I for one can't wait to read this TV. How's them and more coming? Oh my god. The worst question for you to ask. Let's get it out of the way as we start. I think any, any every writer that I've spoken to that's like working on a book or that's finished a book is like, oh, it's so work. Like, it's never gonna happen. It's all just like floundering messy and chaotic. So I'm trying to embrace that. I feel real convicted about it. And most of the time, I I like what I'm writing, but like piecing it all together is It's so hard. I can't even imagine. Well It's important. It's a good it's a good book. I can't wait. The world's ready for it. The world is totally ready for it. So, Stevie, you and I probably first met when you were still writing about my back year in New York days and I was probably year one as a publicist sending you a million pitches. So it's so fun to be back here ten plus years later. I'm back in New York. You're still in the Bay Area where We got to know each other better, but I'm so excited to be chatting with you today. I'm excited too. Actually, yeah, I can't remember if we met originally in New York because I was in New York until two thousand eleven or if it was out here. But, yeah, those it's like crazy how much has happened in between. I know. So you had over a decade in retail running the Bay Grape wine shops, and now you're back to writing more full time. So talk to us a little bit about what brought you back to wine writing. Honestly, it still feels very weird and, like, I'm still trying to validate myself when I say, like, I write about wine. It feels so, I don't know, like, passive and precious in comparison to, like, being a retailer, like, boots on the ground, operations, like, in it every day. So it's interesting. But, you know, I've been, like, thinking back to, like, where this path started, like, the kind of full circle momentum of it, and somewhat, like, out of the blue, I remember this line that, like, actually I'm realizing now is, like, hugely impactful. It was, like, it came, what, like, twenty years ago from my college writing professor. I was not on a path to go into writing. I thought I was gonna be a psychologist. I was gonna be studying youth depression and teenage suicide in Japan. And then just long story, we won't go into, but it sort of like hard pivoted back into food and ultimately wine and writing. And so my point of all of that is I had this professor and he looked at me on the last day of class and said if you don't write for a living or use writing as part of your career and your professional life, you will be doing this world a great disservice. And I was like, shut. Shut up, boy. Like, not. I'm not going on that path. Like, I'm not a writer. I just, like, for so long, I really, like, have tried to stifle my, like, creativity or this notion this identity of myself as, like, a truly creative person. I don't know. I just I thought it was, like, not a worthy endeavor. I also think that back back in the day when I did start to get into this career as we just just talked about of writing about food and wine and travel. I really, like, had this sense that, like, I wasn't legitimate. Like, I didn't have enough education and experience to, like, be worthy of having a say. And so basically, I was like, I need to get more experience. And a huge way that I can do that is by actually working in retail and hospitality. And, like, truly understanding what I'm talking about. And so, you know, there was a lot of pieces that, like, brought me into ultimately my retail and hospitality to career, but definitely part of it was me being like, I need to understand this if I'm gonna write about it. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. And I think what you said earlier, like, when you started that, like, saying you're a wine writer can feel maybe somewhat fluffy or light after ten years on the floor in retail and restaurants is really interesting and about our industry in a way too because they think, you know, wines of a low margin industry that doesn't leave a lot of room for creative minds and thinking all the time. Right? It's like we gotta just go out and sell that bottle or sell that case, and it's not an industry that always allows for that time to like really dive into strategic writing and brand building and some of these things that are really, you know, what I do for a living also, but that are really important for an industry. And I think we're we're starting to see that, that impact of how not correctly investing in brand building is detrimental, right, for an industry and for a brand. Yeah. Completely. Again, as an operator, I understand all too well that, like, there is not time or money to put into any of these, like, creative bits, like, the words, the website, the picture, like, if there's not time for that, so, like, we are not gonna focus on it. And, yeah, I also know people ask me now. I'm a few months out of selling my shop. And, like, obviously, it's like a it's a tricky time, and it's a tricky time to sell businesses. And people are like, you know, to what do you attribute your success? And when I really think about it, there were many, many things. But I think a lot of it came down to, like, There was deep brand loyalty and engagement because of the work that we put in to what does boil down to our marketing, our content strategy, to the writing that we did. And so Yeah. In the end of the day, it's really important even though there is not time Yeah. Money for it. Exactly. And and true story, I moved to Oakland in twenty sixteen, and I remember my mom sharing a New York Times article with me that came out maybe two months before I moved that said like Oakland was on the rise and have this cool stuff happening including these two really cool wine stores, one of which was Bay grape and I remember like bookmarking that article and recognizing your name in the article and going and checking out the shop and I ended up living around the corner and going in all the time. And again, I found out about it through an article which comes through PR and marketing. So I'm absolutely like you said, it's fundamental to success and that's exactly what, you know, we're gonna talk more about in today's conversations, Stevian, and our our three key takeaways for this episode on the state of wine writing and how strategic writing can really inform a winery's marketing strategy or our number one, the power of strong writing as the foundation for a winery's marketing plan. Number two, what is the state of winwriting today in the US? What does it look like? In two thousand and twenty five. And then the future of wine writing, what do we think is on the horizon for our industry as it relates to writing? So to start, let's talk about where we're sitting right now. It's May ninth to twenty twenty five. We just got a new pope. Lots of things have been happening in the world that we all are aware of. But in terms of wine writings, Stevie, where do you think our industry sits at this moment? We're at such an interesting place. And in so many ways, I think we're like We're in the same place that we were twenty years ago when I was doing this when I left. And in so many ways were obviously different. But, you know, it's like twenty years ago, I really felt like wine writing sex. It didn't speak to me. And most of it bless all of you other wine writers out there, but, like, wine writing really still doesn't speak to me. And if it doesn't speak to me, god, like, who is this speaking to? You know? I think the difference is at last, like, people are talking about that. People are starting to be like, okay. This isn't working. Twenty years ago, I also felt like all of marketing of line was like still it was in rooted in this approach of exclusivity. And again, I still think that it is too rooted in exclusivity, but at last, people are talking about it. And also, you know, a really pertinent topic today, I think twenty years ago, I was starting to be like, I kind of think that, like, climate change and sustainability issues are gonna make for big problems in the wine industry, like, is anybody caring about this? And now it's, like, you know, this is still a thing, but at last, again, people are finally talking about it. And I'm really glad that we're talking about it right now. I just put up a post on my self stack about how I have the sort of m o of, like, being willing to bring up these awkward conversations and, like, talk about things that nobody else is willing to talk about. And so I'm really glad that we're We're talking about this today. Yeah. Absolutely. And I think, you know, like you said, there's still, I mean, accessibility issue that we have as an industry, wine, and a lot of aspects. I think writing for one, like, yes, that's today's conversation, but, you know, there's so many of their aspects from employment, restaurants, retail, getting in as a brand to a distributor. I mean, there's just so many issues of accessibility. What would you agree that maybe, you know, looking twenty twenty five versus when you were writing back, you know, in the odds and in around two thousand ten, at least platforms have changed. Like, how do you think the impact of like, let's say having a sub stack, which to me, I'm an elder millennial as I like to call myself, like, I'm just getting into sub stack now. Like how do you think these platforms have kind of changed the arena for wine writing? Yeah. Okay. So first, I want to draw a differentiation. When I talk about wine writing, I talk about it in two very different ways. Number one, I talk about it from, like, a journalism perspective. Like, what are the news outlets or places that consumers go to read about wine? Where are they getting information? And so there are different platforms now than were then. And when I talk about wine writing, I talk about it from more of this marketing perspective, like and so in that way, it's like what are the platforms that, like, producers, winemakers are using to tell their stories. And in a lot of ways, today, those have kind of, like, all woven together because there are more producers also using new platforms that historically were only for journalists that now they're co opting. So I just wanted to draw that out. Like, when I talk about wine writing, I think about it very in two different ways, and those have crossover. And so when you ask a question about wine writing and about platforms, I think in two different ways. So first, let's talk about wine writing as what we'd traditionally call, I think, journalism. So there used to be like magazines and newspapers, and then the internet blew up, and there was like, oh my gosh, like, digital news. And another reason that I ultimately left editorial was because The magazines that I was working for and the newspapers that I was hoping to work for, those publications folded. It was two thousand eight, and those went away. And so there's this huge shakeup in platforms and in the ways that people got media. Now over those, like, fifteen, twenty years, there's been this, like, proliferation of new types of platforms. You mentioned Substock. That's my favorite. I publish on it. I love it. And I could talk for hours and hours, but I won't about the ways that Substock has transformed wine writing or media as a whole, you know, because of the way that people can get paid and it lacks traditional advertiser financing. I think it allows for a huger diversity of voices. And I think we're moving back into this more wonderfully long form, what I call more like nutritious media instead of, like, junk food, snackable, like, fast media that is, like, empty calories. So there's, like, that analogy. Then, god, I get so excited. I don't have so many things to say. Then we think about the way the marketing wine writing. And again, when I started and I was like looking for stories and trying to research stories and find information, like wineries didn't have websites. That wasn't a thing. They didn't have social media accounts. If I was lucky, a distributor, their importer would have information about them. But that was like one very specific perspective of the story. It was told through a specific lens. It wasn't like direct from the mouth of the producer. And now producers have so many avenues for telling their stories. I think that the, like, lag is that most producers haven't caught up and aren't using those platforms the way that they could. So they're barely using their website. If they have their website, especially, you know, you work with international producers, like Italian producers, like, let me use Google translate and just, like, change the words I had and, like, I see that. And I'm like, oh my god, this is like so immediately delegitimizing to read this copy from the producer that's like not telling the story that they want to. And then, of course, social media, and then I think that there's more and more room for using platforms. Like sub stack or also YouTube or, you know, a whole proliferation for marketers or producers to tell their story. Right. So long answer to your short question, but that is some of how wine rating has changed. I think was your question? No. And I mean, the way that I would sum up some of what you said, which was all really interesting. I think, you know, we have seen proliferation of platforms in both sides editorial, and I I like this distinction you that you drew with wine writing and we can use it throughout our conversation is like we have editorial and wine writing writing for the New York Times or writing for your wine blog or even if you're using Instagram to share content about wine like that's editorial and then the other piece and which is content as a winery, your website, your social media, and I think Steve, you're so well positioned to really comment on both because you have a traditional editorial background from decades ago, but now you're focusing more on the content piece in the marketing side, but as I understand you're also still pinning and I've read some great articles on your own sub stack. So you're now wearing both hats on the editorial and the marketing side. Yeah. I often say that I'm bilingual in that way. And I think I love it. It's exactly as you said that unique background of, like, I am a storyteller at heart, and I come from that editorial background. I know how to speak to guests in that way. And I know how to speak to guests because I was the retailer, and I am the restaurateur who's, like, selling the bottles in the shop. But I also know from that same background that I'm looking for information from makers that I can use in my own storytelling, and I need those makers to tell their story to me in a compelling way or as the buyer, like, literally the buyer. Right? Like, Right. I'm buying the wine to sell to the consumers. As the buyer, I read it, and I'm like, I don't know if I really, like, the wine can taste delicious, but you haven't told your story in a compelling way. So I'm not gonna buy it. And I'm not gonna sell it to my buyers who are ultimately your buyers. So I'm bilingual in that way. I know how to speak both languages, and I think that's like the joy. That's what I love about what I do right now. It's going to do both of those. And what do you think are some of the greatest challenges? Let's say know, from the content piece when you're working with a winery to help them tell their story, let's say on their website, which is probably the most foundational piece of information they can have. What do you think are some of the biggest challenges in getting a winery to really tell their story in that authentic way? What a great question. I've spent so much time thinking about this. And what I have discovered, and I think it really boils down to is I don't think that many makers have really thought about why they do what they do. Like, what's their reason for being and what's driving them and getting that story out from them is the, like, really yummy juicy bits that I think, like, infiltrate all of the rest of the storytelling that we do. But when I ask people that, if I'm sitting down with a winemaker, I'm like, why do you do what you do? They're like, what do you mean? I do like It's like asking why is the sky glue. Right? Like, they They're like, I like wine or or a, you know, a lot of producers in Europe are like, this is my family's place. And I'm like, great. Tell me more about that. I'm the one Chris generation winemaker. Yeah. And I'm like, tell me more. What does that mean to you? What do you feel? Like, you know, and really getting into that, like, again, I keep using these words like yummy juicy gooey bits of what really, like, drives people is I think the, like, heart of a story. And I think a lot of people know it, but they haven't thought about telling it. They've thought about, like, if, as I'm thinking aloud here in our conversation, they've thought about, like, How have I seen people tell the story? Like, here witness our vineyards on one hundred generations on this soil. And it's like, yeah. So and they tell that story in the same way that they've, like, seen it told elsewhere. And I think that gets into the, like, This is such a bigger question, but, like, why is wine feeling, like, kind of boring and inaccessible or exclusive to a lot of people right now? Like, those gooey bits aren't quite coming out. Right. We're not allowing the vulnerability, the authenticity. There's, like, always an element of, like, fearfulness back there, like, that's driving you and, like, I wanna know that. Right. Yeah. And I think, like, what you're getting at CV to me is before you and sit down to write your brand brochure, your boiler plate, like, have some of those hard conversations with yourself or with your brand team or or whoever's gonna run your brand about your reason for being like it sounds like you need to know it's almost like go to a therapist and have these conversations. Right? And like really sit in like a room without technology and screens and like do some soul searching maybe around who you are as a brand. Like what, you know, treating the brand almost the same way you might explore your personal issues in a in a way of really getting into that to like you said that juicy stuff so that you're really saying something compelling and interesting and unique when you're telling your story. And that I will try to like say this in a concise and like tidy, nice way. But, like, that is what draws people to wine. Like, I've had so many conversations with people about, like, what, you know, why do you love wine? And, like, when you really, like, you're drinking about you're sharing a bottle together, and you start to, like, wine draws out this, like, really deep intimate, like, meaningful conversation among people in a way that I've never seen anything else do. And we start to have these, like, truly human interactions. This meaningful community building, like, conversation. And we start to share about our fears and our insecurities and our passions and our hopes. And, like, that's what brings people to wine. And I think that, like, that needs to be woven into more of the, like, marketing strategy of wine. Like, Yeah. Mine doesn't have enough joy and enough fun and enough, like, love in it right now. Right. It's not drawing people in. And I think more and more audiences, especially in the world that we live in right now, And especially younger audiences, like, they want that. Yeah. They want that. They want that juiciness. They want that realness. And I think, like, what you said in a ways, wine inspires. They call it a social lubricant. It's one of these phrases. I read or heard like ten years ago and I always use it, but it's a social lubricant and that it does bring people together around food around a table, around a party. It does inspire those deeper conversations. But as wine marketers, content creators, journalist. Anyone and working in the world of communicating around wine. We're not necessarily like almost taking our own advice. We're not ourselves utilizing those stories that wind might inspire in the way we're communicating about our brands. Yes. Yeah. This, you know, one of the pieces of the book. I'm kind of talking about the ways that, like, people are like, oh, but alcohol, and I'm like, but really, like, There's this element that's, like, this is a little controversial, but, like, there's this element of wine that I love. It breaks down some of those, like, barriers that, like, we've put up to protect us in this crazy world. And, like, we choose to intentionally drink it because it, like, lowers those inhibitions. And I know, like, using that word, like, lowering inhibitions is, like, associated with, like, danger and, like, reckless behavior, like, it's also when I say that in this moment, I mean, like, it's allowing us to soften those edges and to, like, pull down the fences that, like, we've built up that have made us, like, so fearful of one another. And really, again, those words vulnerability and authenticity sound so, like, But that's what wine does, and I just have this profound conviction that, like, everybody wants more of that. Once more of that really meaningful connection, and wine does that. And so I try to write things that get into that. Right. I love that. No. I I love that this whole conversation. I think it's it's so powerful. Everything that you're saying is Stevie. I do love to give our listeners really practical advice as well. So We've had a great conversation about getting more vulnerable in your writing, really sharing that authenticity. How would you recommend a winery? Let's say someone who is sitting on the other side and and listening to this and thinking, yeah, I know why my website does kind of thing. It's kinda lame. I've kinda copied off my competitor and just changed a few words or I used chatty PT. What do you recommend to a winery that might be listening to this? How do they even get started? Like getting into that deeper, more vulnerable writing. Call me. Yeah. We'll besides calling you. Of course, I was gonna say it. The size behind me. Don't use chat GPT. Okay? It's so heavily different from people, when people use it. Again, my job is like calling materials for information to tell stories, and I can see it right away, and consumers can see it as well. So I would say, trust your voice, Don't be afraid to be authentic and to be vulnerable. I tell people, honestly, most of what I do for clients is less writing for them and more copy editing. So I tell people, like, just write it all, like, just, you know, what's the verbal diarrhea? Like, just put it all out there and write just as if you were speaking to me. Oftentimes, with clients, I'll be like, let's just have a phone call and just talk to me about what you're doing and why. If I can go and visit them even better, because I can see them, like, the ways that they interact and the excitement that they have. And I take everything that they say, and then I just shape those words. But, like, their individual voice is so powerful and delicious. And I think so many people have been taught, like, not to trust that. And I'm saying the opposite. Like, trust your voice, be authentic, right as you speak, be vulnerable, share, like, the goods and the bads. And then and then maybe call me so that I I can help you spell and punctuate things properly. I would say, really think about incorporating the, like, lifestyle and the joy of wine drinking instead of just your details into your writing, add this into your tasting notes. You know, every single tasting note that I write, I try to advocate for not just like, taste like this, pairs with this, but also with this occasion, like, you know, what is the feeling of the wine. Like, it feels like sitting outside on this kind of way. Something that, like, makes it more about lifestyle. Right. Agully. Figured out. Yeah. For example, I'm like, Lambrisco for me is Italian disco. I've just decided, like, Lambrusco is Italian disco. It's disco music. It's like disco balls. It's being outside in a terrorist drinking a glass of Lambrisco, but it's Lambrisco disco. Like, that's just how I've been thinking about the biggest brand that I work on in which most people here know. I don't even need to say it. But yeah, like that that lifestyle again, like what is the joy that's that that mind is sparking and that feeling that is kinda giving you. Yeah. And I immediately am like Oh, great. And this sounds fun. And then I think of, you know, we sell a lot of Lambrusco. We sell so much Lambrusco at Momma. And I'm like, well, that Lambrusco is more, like, moody, like, at the end of the night out after hours disco. And that one is, like, as we're getting, like, kinda hype, but, like, people aren't there, but, like, we're gonna let's see. Yeah. But, yeah, exactly. And then I said it before, but, like, figure out why you do what you do and tell your audience that. Like, also don't doubt that there is other people just like you who care about the same things that you do. I really believe that people are inevitably drawn to that, like, personality and character and authenticity. And then I'll just, you know, I mentioned this a little bit, but, like, I actually have a brand development questionnaire that I send out to all of my clients, and I will send it to anyone for free. I always send it out for free that if people decide to fill it out and send it back to me and be like use that as our starting place for work, then great, but it asks those kinds of questions. Like, why do you exist or do you do what you do? Who do you most want to buy and love your product? Who are your comps or I put it another way? Who are the people or brands that you most want to be like when you grow up? You know? And so there's like twenty different questions that just are the way that I think about when I'm writing, and so I was always asking these questions to people. And so I send that out to people and it gets them thinking and helps them understand more, which then again, shapes. It's the filter through which all of the writing and all of the rest of not just your marketing, but, like, your entire, yeah, brand strategy, like, how you approach sales, how you decide new opportunities. Are we gonna do this or not? Does it align with these things that we set? Or not. Totally. Mhmm. Yeah. I love that and I definitely want that questionnaire. So I was like, asking me to send me a questionnaire. And my notes that I think is all super practical, great advice for anyone listening and thinking about how they can improve the content that's on their website in all their marketing materials. So I love those types of questions as well. They're just great brainstorm starters and and thought starters. What do you think about the future of wine writings, Stevie? Like is there anything new on the horizon that you foresee in terms of maybe and you can maybe look at this from both halves, the editorial and the content side, but anything that you predict for the future? What's your crystal ball? Well, my crystal ball is also a hopeful wishful thinking crystal ball. So I also believe very powerfully in energy and intention. And if I say that I want it, you know, it will happen. So I want it to happen and I think it will happen that there will be just a lot more joy and more fun in wine writing, but it'll be more about positive messages, like, who's doing what that's inspiring and hopeful. And again, I think both on the editorial side, like, there will be more of these stories that are told. More people want to read those. And I think inevitably then that will drive producers and marketers to tell those. Yeah. And I guess along with that, you know, again, I told you kind of in the before show that I'm coming off of six days of this incredible Napa rise climate and wine symposium. And the stories of regeneration, not just directly related to climate, but as a whole that came out of that are so inspiring, and I really think that more of these more of these stories are going to be told. Yeah. Amazing. I like that future. It sounds interesting and I love to use your phrase, juicy, and gummy, and deep. Enjoyful. Don't we all want so much more joy right now. Yes. I think so. You have two headlines to click on joy or not more joy. Like, joy. Definitely. Absolutely. We all need it. Steve as we wind down, and I think we could talk for, like, two more hours, but we do need to to wind down this episode. We'll do our little rapid fire quiz that we do at the end of every episode. If you can do your best to answer these questions in just a couple sets So question number one, what is your number one tip for mastering the US wine market? Words matter, and you should choose them as intentionally as you make your wine making decisions. Absolutely. Create advice. Number two, what is something you might have told your younger self about wine writing and selling wine and working in the wine industry? Everybody wants more joy in their life. Sell joy. Sell joy. I love that. And finally, any favorite travel hacks for us in this industry that tend to travel quite a bit? Yeah. I think, you know, mine is I don't sell wine when I travel. I, like, buy it. And often, I'm, like, gifted bottles, and there's, like, so now I just know that I, like, always bring a bigger suitcase than I need. And I pack boots so that they can act as padding for which I can like insulate and like basically I shove all the bottles into the boots on my return trip home. I actually do that at home for my tall boots as like I use empty wine bottles to like keep them in shape. Oh my god. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I never thought about that. Oh, yeah. Lots of ways to recycle all that wine and and wine wine boxes. One crates, the wooden ones I love too. So a fan of million ways to use those. Well, Stevie, thank you again for joining me. This was awesome. How can our listeners follow along with you? So I mentioned my sub stack, which is resilient wine dot sub stack dot com. So just think about how we all wanna be more resilient and have more resiliency and you'll remember that. So resilient wine dot substack dot com. My personal website is stevie stacey onus dot com, which is a lot of s's and complicated spelling. So harder to remember, but stevie stays onus dot com. And I'm also with that same handle on Twitter. I'm not on I'm not on Twitter. Twitter is not a thing anymore, and I am not on whatever it has become. I am on Instagram at stevie Staceyonis. Awesome. Fantastic. Well, thank you again, Steve, for being here and for joining me today. Thank you so much for having me. I hope we can run together soon. Definitely. Thank you for joining me today. Stay tuned each week for new episodes of Master Class US wine market with me, Julian Colangelo. And remember, if you've enjoyed today's show, hit the like and follow buttons wherever you get your podcast.