Ep 2385 Barbara Fitzgerald interviews Russ Lorber | Masterclass US Wine Market

Today, I am very excited to welcome Russ Barber to the show. Russ is the founder and owner of wide roots LLC, a US based wine import and distribution company dedicated to bringing small and family owned Italian wineries to American consumers. In this episode, our three key takeaways are number one. What exactly is DC Metro? Second is the importance of agility. And then number three, topic of the day, tariffs. Welcome to Masterclass US wine market with me Barbara Fitzgerald. In this show, we'll break down the complexities of selling wine in the US by discussing the relevant issues of today with experts from around the globe. Each episode serves up three key insights to help elevate your wineries presence in the US market. So grab a pen and paper, and let's pave the way for your success in the US. Hi, everyone. Welcome back. To Masterclass US wine market. Today, I am very excited to welcome Russ Lorber to the show. Russ is the founder and owner of wide roots LLC, a US based wine import industry distribution company dedicated to bringing small and family owned Italian wineries to American consumers. After a successful career in corporate finance and operations, Russ turned to his passion for wine and a deep appreciation for Italian culture and brought this into his mission driven business. So through wide roots, he focuses on authentic storytelling, sustainable production, and building long term partnerships with that celebrate regional diversity and inherited. And alongside all of these wonderful things, Russ is also a fellow certified Italian wine ambassador with Ben Italy International. So we're really, really lucky and excited to have you here, Russ. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you. It's always a pleasure to be here, and thank you for letting me be a part of this. Yeah. Absolutely. Well, before we dive into our discussion today, can you tell us a little bit more, Russ, about your background and how you came to work in the wine business? Definitely. So I came into the wine business with, a little bit of a different background. I was in the corporate world for twenty five years, and, that had kind of run its course, and my goals had changed. I think at some point, probably close to the end of that twenty five years and decided that it was time to strike out on my own and do something that I really had a passion for and an interest in doing And, you know, the it was kind of like reaching that point where I wasn't going to retire at age fifty five anymore. And so I might as well do the work that I can, like, wake up every morning and feel passionate about. And so when I thought long and hard about this, like, what I would do, and I had this discovery probably twelve years or so ago that I had this this passion for European wines. And particularly Italian wines. And the I found it to be something that wasn't necessarily accessible to all of my friends for one reason or another, but it was something that I just had a really good time kind of geeking out in retail stores and on wine list looking for new things. And I remember, like, the thing that really flipped my switch with Italian wine was the first time I tasted Repaso from Valpolicella. And prior to that, I, you know, wine was very homogeneous to me. And as I started exploring Italian wine, it really opened up a lot of possibilities for me about how many different flavor profiles were out there. And how many interesting things were out there that were affordable and accessible to consumers if only we knew what we were looking at when we were walking down that aisle. And so I made it my mission to try to help people discover those wines the same way that I discovered them. And I also had the benefit of wine tourism and and visiting wineries throughout Europe. And what really struck me in those experiences was the passion that winemakers showed. And at the same time, the generosity that they exhibited in sharing those passions with me, and I thought that's the experience that I really wanted to have. And so it's my goal and my objective to bring those experiences to our customers and also consumers that we ultimately reach through our customers and helping turn them on to the experiences that they can have, with Italian wine. And so that's what got me to where I am here. That's amazing. I love that so much because it may maybe we're biased speaking that we love wine so much, but I really think that's one of the things that makes it so special is, like, it is about camaraderie in so many broader senses, and the world needs camaraderie right now. So Definitely. For sure. Yes. I mean, and honestly, I I think when, you know, people ask me about the name of our company wide roots and where that was that that came from is ultimately, at the end of the day, no matter where you're from, no matter what part of the world you're from, I've had the great privilege to travel to a lot of parts of the world. But no matter what part of the world that you're from, and it doesn't matter what your political persuasion is or wherever you come from, at the end of the day, we like to be with our friends and our family, and we like to celebrate. And wine is something that can facilitate that. And so it it's kinda like at the core of our message around everything. It's it's about celebrating you know, just being with each other and, you know, being able to have a good time together because we all, you know, we work hard, but that's not the end all be all. It's really about that, you know, that shared experience with one another, just like being able to relax and enjoy a glass together. Yeah. Well, speaking of enjoying glasses together, you and I spent a pretty amazing week together on a press tour of Aetna, which we spoke just before we started recording how special that was. But I think that allows me to really say firsthand, you know, how you're known for your thoughtfulness, your consumer friendly approach to demystifying Italian wines in the US market, and specifically in and around Washington, DC, which is exactly what we're here to talk about today. So in this episode are three key takeaways and what we're really excited to learn from us are. Number one, what exactly is DC Metro? So the DC area is actually three distinct markets. You have Washington, DC, and then suburban, Maryland, and Northern Virginia, which each present very distinct consumer profiles, buying patterns, price sensitivities, So we'll kind of dig through what what all of that means, that kind of hyper local understanding. Second is the importance of agility. So we talk about it all the time, shifting consumer preferences, distributor consolidation, supply chain unpredictability. Wholesale us today really have to be able to move quickly and strategically. And we'll talk a little bit about how your company is navigating this evolving landscape. And then number three, topic of the day, tariffs. So how do tariffs really demand partnership not panic? So with this ongoing uncertainty around the tariffs, we need some stronger importer supplier relationships. Okay. Definitely. So, yeah, excited excited to talk about all of that. So Alright. Yeah. Well, let's dig into kind of the basics first. Let's unpack the geographic and demographic differences across DC, Maryland and Virginia. It's a very dynamic metro area. So can you explain a little bit? You know, what is, like, DC proper suburban, Maryland, Northern Virginia? What are the things that are similar? What are the things that are different? Especially, obviously, when it comes to selling Italian wine? Definitely. I'll give you an overview of the area and also maybe infer a little bit about what it could mean for the rest of the of the US as well. But for wide routes, ground zero is DC in Maryland and then Virginia to an extent as well. And so I'll start in DC. And, actually, even before I get into that, like, I think a lot of people getting into the US think of the good market being New York, Florida, California, Chicago, DC is a really exciting market. And I would say it's been up and coming for a while. You've got a really good Sommelier Network in in DC, which I think fuels that. And the restaurant scene in DC, I mean, I've lived in this area now for twenty five years, and I will say that, the restaurant scene in particular has come a really long way. And so you have disposable income. You've you have people that are interested in culture and good experiences. And so and DC has really evolved for that. And so as I mentioned earlier, it's very Somalier driven. And you think Barbara about, like, our Italian wine ambassador curriculum. And, like, we just put out Italian wine unplugged about a year ago, which I think is an awesome resource for Italian wine, but thinking about the producers who are benchmark producers of, like, different grapes in different regions. And in the DC community, you have a real appreciation for that. You have people that are seeking out those benchmark producers and then getting into even a higher level than that are like what we call allocated wines. Here in the US. And so you may have a producer in Italy who makes a very small volume of product, and they only have so many bottles to go around. And those bottles are very limited in availability. And they tend to be a little more expensive, and those are very highly sought after in the Sommelier community. And so Sommeliers are looking for those benchmark producers. And then besides that, you also have curiosity of all of and we, you know, I think people listening to this podcast have an appreciation of how much diversity there is in Italian wine. How many different grapes there are in different regions and there's really a grape and a growing location for pretty much any situation that we're in. And you have a lot of restaurants who are doing their best to come up with a wine list to cultivate something that can kind of appeal to every one of those situations. And so the wine list, they can be very adventurous in that respect. But at the same time, you know, the again, they're looking for, you know, sort of their benchmark brunellos, and they're looking for their benchmark Barrolos, and they're looking to get their hands on some of those really hard to get producers that are known to make amazing examples of those particular terroirs. Would you say that DC is the kind of demand there is driven by the fact that there's a lot of also foreign, especially foreign dignitaries, like people that have already maybe more experience with with Italian wine, those benchmark producers, and maybe even some of the diversity that many American other American consumers might not be aware of. Definitely. You have a a global customer clientele that are going to the restaurants, and you also have a even the domestic clientele, you have people that are willing to spend a lot of money on a bottle of wine. I mean, if I think about myself, if I can find a fifteen dollar bottle at retail bottle of wine, I feel like I've scored a great victory. But Yeah. You know, you when you have people that go to rush restaurants, and they're they think nothing of spending five hundred dollars on a a bottle of wine, on a wine list in a restaurant. There's just a lot more disposable income there. And it's this is not a judgment, obviously, on on any of that. And, like, what people like or or don't like because you can find great quality, I think, at every price point. But I think just the the point of that is that in in DC, you know, you're more likely to find the people that are willing to spend a lot of money on a a bottle and a good bottle. Alright. And and to your point that are, you know, it's it's a little bit more of a a of a global audience and maybe people who are a little bit more plugged into what can come out of of the region. Right. And then, you know, you go to you go up the road to Baltimore. Baltimore is about, you know, on a good day. It's a forty five minute drive and then figuring traffic and all bets are off. Baltimore is a little bit different. Baltimore's a little bit more of kind of like, a collection of neighborhoods, but you've got, you know, these, you've got great educational institutions like Johns Hopkins. You've got kind of an educated population. And, you know, they may be less, you know, aware of everything coming out, but what you find in Baltimore is that you can come up with a wine list that covers an eclectic amount of territory, and you can have different grape varieties from different regions of Italy that are really interesting. What it really comes down to is the quality that those wines deliver, at the price. And our our own experience with wide groups and, you know, kind of hold up an exam. We carry a spumante pecorino from from Le Marque. And I remember making the decision to carry that wine. And I thought, like, we were looking for a prosecco at that time. And we happened to have this sample from a producer that we were looking to work with, and we kinda, like, were we you know, tasted this wine and we're like, we we gotta bring this in. Like, it's just so good for what it is, and we weren't quite sure if we could sell it. But, you know, we moved several pallets a year of a Pumante Pecorino in Baltimore And it's just, like, if you're at the right price point, if you've got the right quality and you're at the right price point, and by the right price point, I'm gonna say that fifteen to twenty dollar retail price on the shelf in a retail store here in the US that you can move some volume in Maryland in the Baltimore market by giving that product love through featuring it in dinners and featuring it in consumer tastings. And people are open to trying new things and, you know, kinda like take it back to maybe first principles for American wine drinkers. You know, as American wine consumers or at least I'm speaking from my own experience, we're taught to think about wine based on, like, the crayola eight pack of graves, which would be cabernet sauvignon, chardonnay, pinot noir, riesling, so cabernet franc, you know, you you get the you get the idea in there. Right? And there's so much more out there. Right? But at the same time, like, not everything needs to be from those particular grapes or those particular profiles. What's really important and what really matters is finding good quality that can out drink its price. And I think that's really one of the advantages of Italian wine. It's a little bit less discovered, and there's still so many more things out there that if we just take the time through a good quality distribution partner and then good quality retail and restaurant partners, you know, we can bring those to the world very successfully. I've seen it with my own eyes. Yeah. And then you know, you you go to and then Northern Virginia is another part of this region. And we think of you you think of the of the US market, like, the you you see different clusters all over the US. And a lot of that happens to correspond with geography. And so if you are operating as a wholesaler, which my company wide routes does, it makes sense from, you know, the standpoint of economies of scale that you service a cluster of markets in a particular area. And, you know, we could probably get into a lot with this about how every market and every US state is different from a regulatory standpoint. But I'll kinda boil it down and just say, if you're in the Maryland DC area, it probably makes sense to be in the Virginia area at some point because, again, you're looking to build your business to some kind of critical mass that has economies of scale. And so Virginia is a little bit different from a regulatory standpoint because it's what we call a franchise state where you assign a wine brand to a distributor, and that gets registered with the state. And it becomes very difficult to change that once it's done. And the implication of that from a producer is that they have to be very careful about who they partner with if they go into a state like Virginia because and I've I've seen this. I've experienced it, unfortunately, with a couple of producers that I've worked with where you get into a relationship with a partner who maybe doesn't do the best job of representing you and then you're stuck with that partner because they will not let you go And unfortunately, the law is on their side. But long story short, the selection in a place like Virginia tends to be maybe a little bit lower than what you would get in DC or Maryland But at you also there are some good opportunities there. Like, if you're building a good brand in DC, then you have a lot of people who are working in the district who maybe live in Northern Virginia and they're going to be looking for those brands in Northern Virginia. And, really, the moral of the story, I think if I'm thinking of it from a producer who would want to be in this particular part of the US is if you're looking at Virginia, you probably wanna look at the three states together and go with a producer that you think could best represent you in those three areas because, particularly, if you go to Virginia, you could get stuck in a bad situation potentially. That would be really difficult to extract yourself from. And that's really good practical advice. And just because, you know, we are American, so we understand it very well. But for those who aren't, can you explain, like, is DC? Do you need your own wholesaler in DC? Does it get lumped into your Maryland wholesaler? How does that work since it's technically not a state? Yeah. So DC is a little bit of a we kind of refer to it as the Wild Wild West of the wine scene. And so typically, in in a US state, you know, producers assign rights to an importer and then an importer assigns rights to a wholesaler and wide routes functions as an importer and a wholesaler, but and you can assign rights to certain states, and you can assign rights to other states to other people. DC is a bit of an odd thing because it's not really clear that you can really assign one single distributor or importer to DC, and it seems like if they just pay the excise tax that there is, you know, you can sell your wine there. But then if somebody represents you in Virginia, there's also this sort of kind of section of the law that says if I represent you in Virginia, then I have to represent you in DC, and you can't sell under. And so it's there's a little bit of it's it's a little bit foggy to be honest, but I I think, you know, at the end of the day, and I don't wanna get too much into interpreting the legalities of this for many, many reasons but the long story short is that if you go, like, Maryland does not have the same laws as Virginia. And if you go into a state like Virginia and you have somebody represent you there and in DC, you wanna be very sure that that's gonna be a good relationship in order to not get into a situation where somebody else is selling you in DC, and then all of a sudden, you know, there's some kind of a problem. Yeah. Yeah. Well, so, again, great advice. Thank you for that. To kind of summarize what you said about the different markets, it seems like correct me if I'm wrong. It seems like you're saying that DC is the more almost traditional market in a sense. They're looking for brands that have a lot of legacy, a lot of kind of reach already in the market. And then Baltimore is really this more kind of experimental, maybe a place for an up and coming region. So it seems like, you know, maybe DC is like the best place for DOC, DOCG, and, and, like, some great, maybe newer DOCs or even IDTs in Baltimore, broadly speaking. Yeah. I I would say that's a that's a good way to look at it. I mean, if I could add anything to that, we get the chance to work a lot with winemakers in our market. And, you know, d I think DC calling DC kind of like a traditional market, maybe comparing it to like a New York City. Mhmm. For example, it's definitely kind of getting to that point whereas in in Baltimore. I think there's more, like, the winemakers that come to visit us here in Maryland and go to Baltimore, I will say we've very impressed with, like, walking after walking through a store looking at a wine list seeing the selection that is available to customers here in Maryland. And that's not like it's like you don't have selection like that without having people that will buy wines that are eclectic and different and kind of across a lot of different categories. You have that because consumers are willing to taste new things and you have store owners and you have some of the a's who if the wine is good and the quality is good for the price, they're going to push it because at the end of the day, that'll be profitable for them. And they don't mind taking that time to educate somebody about something that is not Chardonnay or Solvignon Blanc or something that we're kinda typically accustomed to here in the US as we grow up in in the wine scene. Well, thank you for making that distinction. Let's talk a little bit now about kind of the importance of agility. So, you know, we'll explore how your business has really had to adapt to shifting consumer behavior, supply chain, complexity. We'll get to tariffs in a moment. For now, we could just talk about these kinda other other challenges that we've faced in the industry in the past few years. So what are some of the biggest changes that you've seen in buyer behavior over the past few years? And that could be on premise, off premise, even private clients, if you work with private clients? Yeah. I think one of the really positive things. And I, you know, I I didn't mention earlier. I work with Vinny Deppino. He he works with wide roots, and he's now, a part owner in the company. And he and I talked, as well before I think he was in your cohort as a matter faster. Yeah. He was. So yeah. And and so he and I talked about this a little bit earlier today, and he made a a really good point. And that's the restaurant scene in Baltimore has been evolving. And the selection that you have has really been the quality of the restaurants, what you get, the authenticity is really evolving into something very special. And it's very exciting because I think it opens opportunities for what we do. And, you know, it's like I think Baltimore traditionally was known for its little Italy area, which traditionally was an area where we had a lot of Italian immigrants, especially from Compania and Sicily who settled here in Baltimore, and the little Italy neighborhood of Baltimore is kind of where they settled. And, like, I don't wanna get into pure Italian culture versus Italian American culture because there's always that back and forth. But in the sort of the tendency to say, okay, that's not real Italian. Well, whatever. First of all, it's all coming a long way. It's all evolving into something that is like more people travel to Italy. They understand sort of the authenticity part of it. So you're seeing kind of an increase in that authenticity in the restaurant scene here. And along with it, you're also seeing an increase in selection. And so it's opening up opportunities. And I would say, like, if you go, if you drive an hour up the road to Frederick, Maryland, you know, Frederick is maybe where Baltimore was fifteen years ago, but they're evolving as a restaurant scene. And they have a lot of people who live there that have money to spend. And so that restaurant scene is evolving their wine selection is evolving. And I think that's a good lesson is to, like, is to think about, like and this is happening. It's not just Maryland, DC in Virginia. It's really everywhere. It's, like, Vinnie described this really well when I talked to him earlier, but, like, who's buying a Neapolitan pizza oven and putting a pizzeria in where they're making an authentic Napolitano pizza, and they're probably putting together a wine list that compliments that that has some authenticity to it that really brings Italian culture in. And so I think in terms of being agile, like, you know, the first thing I'll say is, like, be kind of cognizant of the trends and where areas are going and get ahead of it. I think that's probably the single biggest thing that that we can do. The other kind of broad one that I'll say is just like kind of the general state of the economy is we're clearly in a situation today where there's some market softness that we're feeling And it's at least how we've been feeling it here, and I can't speak for everybody that's in the business, but I would say at least in the beginning of the years that the market has been relatively soft as the economy has become uncertain. And so there's been more of a shift to value based brands. And so, you know, we have to make sure that we're not stuck with a whole lot of inventory of maybe the mid tier and higher priced products and that we're prepared to go out and really push things that are maybe more value driven. And then you go to a place like DC, and people were still spending money in DC. And so we can continue to push the higher priced products there, but then, you know, be conscious of value everywhere else. And so I think, you know, the agility that you speak of is just kind of like understanding your current situation and what your opportunities are and then, like, how you can kinda position yourself to take advantage of those no matter what the situation is. Yeah. And you are really lucky in that sense. Even if it's complicated to have three markets all right there, but you're lucky to be able to diversify in that way. So you're not if you've already brought in, you know, I'll just say the name. Sashikaya, I I know you don't bring them in. But if you brought them in, you're not just sitting on it because you're only working with a market that's shifting to kind of you know, the price to value line, the the lower price to value lines. You still have the opportunity to move that. So also good to think, you know, for wineries looking to partner with you, that means that you kind of take on less risk and more attractive to them. Right. And we haven't gotten into the tariffs yet. And I know there's been kind of like Yeah. I I've at least heard a little bit about people kind of stocking up before tariffs hit and, you know, we may pay the price for this at some point. Who knows. But we've been kind of careful about that too because we're in the situation where we're going to get hit with tariffs, but we also it's hard to see where the market is going to go. And so you don't like, I I think there's a previous podcast episode that you did, and I can't remember who you interviewed, but I listened to it, and I remember it really resonating with me is that we really had to be careful about cash flow. Yes. That was Herman Scernick who said that. That was Harmon Scernick. That's exactly who it was. Yes. I remember that. And I was, like, right on, but we had to be really careful about taking big risks with inventory at the moment, especially when you have the prospect of tariffs hitting you that we have to pay upon customs clearance here in the US. So there's a big cash flow risk that we get into. And I think that's, you know, you're kinda I don't know. I'm probably pulling us ahead a little bit, but No. That's okay. You you hit the nail right on the head with the terrorist. It's like, don't panic. Yeah. I mean, that's that's the worst thing you can do in this situation is panic. And then pull the trigger on something, and then you get hit with a tariff on top of it. And then all of a sudden, there's all this, you know, you're out all this cash. Yeah. Well, I will I just wanna ask you this one quick question, and then we will ship to the tariff it is, like I said, the topic du jour, but how are you using tools like sales feedback, market trend reports, other data to inform how you're curating and positioning your portfolio? We definitely look at data. I mean, I look at reorder points all the time for, products that we currently carry. We, you know, mainly I I would say the problem that we have had with wide roots being a relatively younger company is that we have probably erred on the side of being leaner. And so as a result, we've had situations where we need to bring more product in, and we need to reorder at different times. And so know, we look at our reorder points, especially on products that we're featuring by the glass so that we make sure that we're we're not running out of products. But beyond that, you know, we constantly look at what our top products are. We look at products that we think we should be doing better with, and we will do some experimentation with price points until we find a price point where if something is not moving, can we move it at a different price? And then, you know, in that case, we have decisions to make about whether that's a can we make the right amount of profit on that product at that price? And so you know, like, every time we decide to source a product and we decide to distribute a product, we do it because we like the product a lot. We think there's an opportunity for it. We think we can do something with it. And I would say probably eighty percent of the cases. We do about what we expect or we do maybe better than we would expect. And then there's twenty percent where we say we're not moving the volume and we either need to look at price or we need to look at the fitness for the market, and then we make a decision at that point as to whether we should continue to carry that product. So we definitely look at sales data at least on a monthly basis across all of our products. And assess where we are with those. And if something is not working for us, we try to be pretty quick in moving it out of the portfolio and The other thing is just that's very important is just being very transparent with the producer about, okay, this isn't something that we think will work in our market. And, like, I'll give you kind of a specific example of this with a tough category not just our market here, but across markets in the US is the Rose category. And look, personally, I love Rose. I think it's awesome. And it's just it's a funny category with consumers. Yeah. The reality is at least here. I mean, Florida's a little different because Florida's warm all the time. Yeah. But here, you've got about five months to sell Rose. And so it turns into kind of a supply chain you know, something that you you have to really get good at managing how much you bring in relative to how much you sell and how much you push. Yeah. And so and then in the other cases, you find things that just won't work because people expect a certain profile of Rose. And so I think kinda getting back to your point analytics and data, the biggest thing that we look is sales data. And then, you know, kinda take that back to what decisions do we have to make with each product. Yeah. Interesting. Okay. Well, we will shift now to the tariffs. So we've already got into it a little bit. So you were saying that, you know, it's a strategy to kind of buy a lot of advance, but that there's a lot of risk involved with that too. So I'm assuming that that you didn't use that strategy to buy up in advance. Is that accurate? Yeah. That that's accurate. We did not do that. We kind of we did our buying as we normally would, buying in quantities that we thought could essentially cover us until we needed to place our next order. So Yeah. And there's a few reasons for that. One is that, you know, our warehousing, we pay by the pallet. So I would have to pay for a lot of warehousing of of product. And then the other is essentially the risk that you take, especially when you get into something like a white wine. And so you had the, you know, the interview with Harmon Skernick. He really said this best. It it was kind of like the advice that he gave is don't really do much different from what you've been doing, and we did not. I mean, you can do those things, but then you need to have the capital to put that into inventory. And if you do that, you're taking capital away that could help you in a situation down the road. And so it's a decision that you have to make. Now, obviously, the downside for us is that eventually we get hit with these tariffs. But, you know, honestly, that's a reality. I'd rather kinda step up to sooner rather than later. And if a tariff pushes the price point of something into a region, that it can't be supported, we would rather find that out sooner rather than later. Right. So, you know, it's being a small business. We don't have a lot of capital to kinda put out there to take a big risk and you'd it's like, I don't know if there's a saying, I think, in tech, it's like fail fast or something like that. And so if something is going to go wrong, you wanna find out sooner rather than later. And the other thing and honestly, this is risky as well. And I I think other speakers on your podcast have alluded to this as well, but there's just it it's just so uncertain. It's really difficult to make a plan right now. Yeah. Because we don't know where it's going to go. We don't tomorrow, we can wake up, and it could be thirty percent in sixty days. And, like, we just don't know that, or it could be zero. And so unless I think you know, you own a business and you're kinda making these decisions where the uncertainty makes it really difficult to kinda figure out. Like, at the end of the day, capital is very limited. Cash is limited. Right? I don't have an infinite pool of cash that I can go out and just build inventory if I want. And so I'm making decisions every day based on the cash that I have, the capital that I have. And when you have a smaller business, it's Eve. Like, when you're running breakthrough or Southern or RDC, and you've got a war chest. It's a little bit different. You know, when you're kind of in a the the situation of a small business, every day, you're thinking about what's my best use of the cash that I have and the capital that I have. And you know, you just really makes it difficult. So, on uncertainty is not our friend right now. I think, you know, to that point, it's kinda like how do you best cope with it? The best thing And maybe this is like mental health as much as anything, but it's just like don't panic, you know, don't go out and do something rash because I don't know that it'll fix anything in the long run. Yeah. And hopefully, you know, the panic seems to really be induced by the threat of two hundred percent. And there's no level of tariffs that is gonna benefit your business. Right? But hopefully, like, the notion that that seems to be off the table now helps people to not panic as much. That panic after two hundred percent was very justified. But, you know, along those lines, what kind of conversations are you having with your producers? Around, you know, shared risk or or pricing strategy. Yeah. And so, you know, we have so we have a few producers that are in a position to work with us on that. And so we've gotten some concessions And we've gotten some pricing concessions, and we've gotten some direct help with paying tariffs. And that's really producer by producer. You know, some producers are kind of more in a position where they can do that. And others are in less of a position. And I pretty much everybody that I work with directly at this point, I kinda know who has money and who doesn't. But so Like you said, they have to protect their cash flow too. You know, this is like Exactly. No part of the value chain, that is a a very cash heavy business. So everyone has to really, you know, this is capital intensive. No. That's right. And you're like, look, my goal is not to go and got the producers that we work with because that's not going to form. I mean, our goal is to have long term partnerships. Yeah. And it's kind of like what can we all afford at this? And so if somebody if somebody isn't able to help with something, know, maybe they put it all on the line giving me pricing because they really wanted to send their product to me here in the US. And I can't ask them for any more concessions, but then, you know, we have to let the market decide at that point. Yeah. We have to kinda push things through and then c, can we keep moving the volume that we're moving? And it sort of becomes that conversation, which is maybe, you know, it's a little bit kind of a harsh reality at some point, but then it's then, you know, you you hope that the quality can kind of provide the reason to keep going with it. And so Yeah. Yeah. It just it sort of becomes a producer by producer thing, but I I think, you know, to your original question, we've definitely we've had some people that are trying to help with this. We don't know how permanent things are going to be. I mean, I'd love to sit here and tell you that in four years, we'll just unwind all of this. And the answer is I just really don't know. And I don't think anybody on this side of the ocean or on Italy side of the ocean can really sit here and make a decision as though that will happen at this point because we really don't know. You could have a different government come in, and then all of a sudden, we're we've been, you know, making money from these tariffs, if you will. And somebody decides they don't really wanna unwind that, and then we're just stuck with it. So I don't know. My the optimistic me says I hope it all goes away, but I just don't know at this point. Yeah. It's really I think even just, you know, the past elections in the US tell you, like, there is no predicting. You don't know what the outcome of something is gonna be. So the best we can do is kind of what you said is just have the conversations remember that your wholesale, your importers, your distributors are your partners, and they want to see you succeed, especially a small company like you and wide routes, you've chosen these brands because you believe in them. And so you want to see them succeed in the market. That's right. Absolutely. I mean, at the end of the day, if they're in our book, it's because we love them. And, you know, we we feel there's an opportunity And so and now we're kinda going through this dislocation, and I hope we make it through it. I don't know that we will in every case, unfortunately. But Yeah. You know, that's kind of what we're gonna find out here in the coming months. Oh, well, that's kinda heavy. Yeah. Right. It's very heavy. It's, yeah, waking up at three in the morning and lying awake for hours is Yeah. Exactly. But I again, I just I hope it reminds, you know, I've told this story previously on here, but when I was at meaningfully, I heard somebody say, but an Italian person say, this is what the American people want because they voted for Donald Trump. And I just think it's so important to remind, you know, our global partners. This is not what we want. We are so supportive of the beautiful, you know, influx of wines from around the world and having partners in these global markets Italy, especially, being that those conversations between me and you, but Yeah. So, you know, I've heard that as well that, like, this is what the American people wanted. And sitting here in the US, trust me. I can tell you that, like, a lot of us here are kinda thinking the same thing. Like, ultimately, is this kind of what we voted for, and I'm not sure if it is or if it isn't. But at this, like, I guess regardless of all of that, there are people like us that continue to believe in this category, and we, you know, we see the beauty of Italy. We see the beauty of traveling to Italy and the culture and the experience. And that's what we try to bring through the wine. I mean, we don't just sell wine. Right? We sell Italian culture. I feel like Vinney and I are the boots on the ground. For the families that we represent. Like, we are, like, their presence here in the US. And they're, you know, we work with producers that we work with directly, and we have others that we buy through other importers state side. And regardless, like, we try to get to know all of them. We've been to a lot of their estates. We've had them here in the US. And we see their faces every time we pour their wines. We can hear their voices. And, like, you know, we represent people. We represent culture and tradition. And, like, the optimist in me says, that will outlast all of what is happening today. And I don't know I don't know how it's going to go, but somehow there's an optimist in me that says we're going to get through all of that because this is just too beautiful to not kinda make it if you will. So Oh, I that that's, like, for me, that's the quote of the episode. We we're gonna survive because this is too beautiful to nominate it. I love that. Well, Russ, you've been so generous with all of your time and your insider expertise. So as we start to wind things down, you know, we do our rapid fire quiz here where we ask our guests three questions to help our listeners better understand the US wine market and specifically this episode. So just answer in a couple sentences if you can. Number one, what is your number one insight for mastering the DC metro market? You got I know you're gonna say the I thought you're gonna say the US market. We could go US wide or No. It's it's it's okay. It's it's okay. If you wanna do DC, regardless, I would say if you're trying to master the US market or the DC metro market is to recognize that it's not a monolith. Every market has its own groups and segments that you can really cater to and kind of understand where you are. You don't necessarily have to sell in New York or Miami or Chicago or DC. You know, maybe there's an opening for you here in Baltimore. Or maybe there's an opening in a place like Atlanta. Like, what's really the best fit for your products, your price point, and the value that you bring? And then find the partner that can help you to reach that. That I think that's probably the most critical learning that I've had. Yeah. That's fantastic. You're again, this is a partnership. So you have to find the your partner in that market. Yeah. Alright. Number two, what is something you would have told your younger professional self about selling wine in the US? So we partner with Charles Lazara from Volio imports. He had a really good one a year ago, which was he was asked this question. His answer was focus. And I thought that was a really good answer. I'll give you my answer, and my answer is promise what you can deliver. And underpromise overdeliver, like, always just be able to come through on what you say you can do in in any situation because our credibility is the single biggest asset that we have as as people. And that is the best way that we can enhance that reputation of credibility. Yeah. It's so good. And so important with building trust with your customers too. Even, you know, if your customers are restaurants or retailers, that trust is that credibility is what builds that trust. For sure. Okay. And last, we move around a lot in the wine industry. So what is your favorite travel hack when doing market work? Well, I'm gonna give my favorite travel hack in reverse. Okay. And she's going flying from west. Sorry. I'm I'm backwards. That's just par for the course. So I'm flying from west to east is don't necessarily work. Like, I I talked to a lot of people that wanna book a direct flight to their final destination in Europe. Don't be afraid of the connection in Europe. Book your flight to Europe and then make your connection and go. And the reason is it's so much easier to sleep on that connection. Than it is on the transatlantic flight. And then you get to where you're going. You feel good. You're not overly groggy. You're ready to go, and then you fall asleep at the right time that night. Okay. That's a good yeah. But figuring out how to reorganize your sleep pattern when you're traveling. It's, like, clutch. The older we get, the more I'm, like, everything's about my sleep. For sure. And everything's backwards for me. Like, when I was younger, I had very little problem going east to west. Now my bigger problems are coming back to the US. And that takes me, like, a week to adjust back. But some reason going to Europe, I'm fine, it was always the opposite. Yeah. Well, Russ, thank you so much, really, for joining us today on Master Class US wine market, giving us all these incredible insights into DC, Baltimore, or Maryland and Virginia. How can our listeners connect with you? The best way is on Instagram. You can find us at wide roots LLC. It's wide underscore roots LLC. We also have a Facebook page wide roots, and then we are on LinkedIn at wide roots LLC. You can also email me at russ r u s s at wide roots l l c dot com. Fantastic. Well, thank you again. Give our best also to Vinnie, your incredible partner. And I really hope we get to see each other, Sam. That would be great. I'd love that. I definitely will. Cheers Salute. Salute. And that's a wrap for this episode of Master Class US wine market. Thank you so much for joining us. If you enjoyed this episode and want to stay up to date with the latest industry trends, remember to like, follow and share our podcast. And if you find value in our conversations, please leave us a review to help others discover the show and grow our community Stay tuned for new episodes every Monday. Until then.