Ep. 2428 Juliana Colangelo interviews Mark Jammal of The Vinous Bunch | Masterclass US Wine Market

Today, we're joined by Mark Jamal, the Dynamics Amoyer and co founder of the Venice Bunch, a content platform, and community dedicated to making wine more open, inclusive, and above all fun. Today, we're Focusing our conversation on what the next generation is looking for and why specifically in restaurants. So the three key takeaways and things we'll wanna talk about. Number one, what are younger consumers ordering in restaurants? Number two, how can Italian ones better resonate with this next generation in in New York specifically? And number three, what do you think makes a wide or a region? Let's say sticky or memorable with new audiences? Hello. Welcome to Masterclass US wine market with me, your host, Juliana Colangelo. This show has been designed to demystify the US market for Italian wineries through interviews with experts in sales and distribution, social media, communications, and so much more. We will quiz each of our esteemed guests in every episode to solidify the lessons that we've learned from the episode. To sharpen your pencils, get out your notebooks, and join us this week to learn more about the US market. Hello. Welcome to Matt for class US wine market. Today, we're joined by Mark Jamal, the Dynamics Amalier and co founder of the Venice bunch. A content platform, and community dedicated to making wine work open, inclusive, and above all fun. With experience on the floor at some of New York City's most forward thinking restaurants, Mark has his finger on the pulse of what younger drinkers are ordering, questioning, and craving when it comes to wine. From that he pours to old world icons. He's helping to shift the conversation around wine culture in the city and beyond. Mark welcome to the show. It's so much fun to have you here. Thank you so much, Juliana. It's really a pleasure to be here. Yeah. Absolutely. For our listeners, Mark and I attended the same master's program at Sonova State. So we're Alam of SSU. So it's always fun to interview a friend. So thanks again for joining me. Of course. So Mark, for starters, for listeners who might not be familiar with you and your background, tell us a little bit more about your wine journey and how your story began and wine. Yeah. My journey is a bit different than others. My background is in music theater. In college, I spent a summer performing in summer stock, which is like a summer, it's summer camp for adults. And it was in Sonoma County. At a theater company called Summer Rep Theater. Long story short, the last week of Summer Stock, we got kicked out of the dorms at Sonoma State where we got our MBA and me and my roommate we're fortunate enough to be partnered with a homestay, which were people part of donors of the summer stock community and a winemaker named Jeff Stewart with Hartford Family Court opened his a home up to us and let us live with them. Wow. That's amazing. Why did you get out of the dorms though? What happened there? Because Sonoma State had, to start the fall semester. Oh, okay. Okay. Alright. I thought maybe, you know, you guys did something scandalous. No. Create some drama. I get it. So you got kicked out of the dorms and you end up staying with a winemaker. Tell us about that. How did that inspire where you sit today? Yeah. He took us on a tour of the winery. Amazing. Which as a Texan, believe it or not, that was something that was not normal, for for me. And and this is a really it's it's a grassroots winery, you know, really good farming and and small production. So I got bit by the bone there. I started it there and then moved to New York, started working in restaurants to pay the bills and learned that the wine industry was probably the most balanced way of paying bills and exploring culture. So You said that's so politically correct. I love it. Challengeway. Yes. Yeah. You know, we we like to venture out in the wine industry. And, yeah, started working at for wine group, RG three hops hospitality, which is five restaurants, the Miriam restaurants, and Brooklyn, and on the upper west side, upper east side, and eighteen o three, I became the wine director there, the corporate wine director, and really got a taste of the commercial wine industry in New York City. From there, I enrolled for the MBA program, WSet programs, and just got engulfed in the industry. Just did my first harvest at Trune for three months just to some Yeah. Cut my teeth on that side of things. And, yeah, just the abundance of different angles in the industry. I I I really like to take it all in and be able to approach it from experience. It's it's kind of my ethos. Very cool. Amazing. And I love your intro story and and what you've done with your career. Just, you know, from that small seat, it's it's pretty great. So, Mark, as you said, you've really immersed yourself in the industry in so many ways. So today, we're focusing our conversation on what the next generation is looking for and why specifically in a restaurant considering your extensive background in New York and we'll focus on New York since it is such a major market, of course, for Italian White. So the three key takeaways and things we'll wanna talk about Number one, what are younger consumers ordering in restaurants? Number two, how can Italian ones better resonate with this next generation and in New York specifically? And number three, what do you think makes a wine or a region let's say sticky or memorable with new audiences. So, we'll dive into all those topics. And, you know, for starters, let's talk about what's happening on the floor in the restaurant where you are probably more days than you'd like to be, but, you're getting that firsthand experience. What are you seeing your customers in the restaurant gravitate towards in terms of the wine list. Yeah. That's the million dollar question. Right? So now I'm the wine director for a dual entity group, love bar lovebirds wine group. I'm mostly on the floor of the restaurant, and What I see the most, especially in Brooklyn, and I'm trying to differentiate Brooklyn, the New York scene, the big city scene from the national scene, but there's a few key word. I mean, the natural wine term, is huge. Mhmm. And I see a big differential between natural wine marketing, actual natural wine, and the palettes of the consumer with that. The consumers like buzzwords too. They are really into orange wine, childrens, and pet nass. A lot of them are just looking to make an order fast with something they know. Of Ridal they know. Right. Something cool and hip. Yeah. Absolutely. I know you name three styles that are obviously quite popular in natural wine between childred's orange lion and pet nuts. Do you think there's anything from a pallet perspective that it appeals to the consumer about those styles, or if you didn't get some more to do with, really, the marketing and branding behind some of these natural lines? Yes. And no. There Absolutely. As a power perspective, on the broad scope, people like things that are lifted and energizing Right. From what I've seen. They don't like things that are oxidative or too jammy these days, which is crazy to me because the commercial palette used to be just like a a big alcohol override style. Yeah. I mean, definitely, like you said, Mark, the liftedness of the palettes, people wanting lighter styles you know, we've really seen that shift away from that bigger jammie style of the nineties. And I think what you said earlier about differentiating Brooklyn from Manhattan is key here because, you know, that style, those bigger styles definitely still have action in play in the Midtown Steakhouse, but more thinking about working the market in Brooklyn and more independent restaurants. Like you said, they're looking for lighter, more trendy styles. What about from a varietal perspective? You know, you mentioned pet nuts orange wines chilled reds, but are there consumers and and people in the restaurant asking for any varietals by name or are they mostly asking you for styles? I see that and I build my wine lists around mostly known styles or known regions. As a buyer, I do have some really trendy books calling me to bring in wild Italian varietals, but no. I mean, most people are drawn to Nebulaiolos and Sanjeevases and not even sicilian styles, which I look forward to talking more about sicily because it's a really cool region, but it is funny from a marketing standpoint, the young consumer who is just getting into wine wants what they know. Once what they know. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense because they want to feel comfortable. I mean, wine can be an intimidating category. And as an industry, we still have some work to do to break down on those some of those barriers. So what you're saying totally makes sense, they want something they feel comfortable with, and they know. So for Italy, you're seeing Sedge of Azig, Annibiola, and imagine, you know, Barolo, Kianti, those are buzzwords in Italy that consumers have come to know. How about in terms of regionality, are there any regions that your clientele is asking for by name, whether it's Italy or outside of Italy too? Yeah. A big one. Sicily. Sicily, Sicily is big. I think it just has to do with culture. This kind of escapism, influencer, linen clothes, vacation lifestyle, this called white lotus. I don't know if you've heard of it. No. I haven't. Yes. The white lotus, in fact, we say, like, to say. Yeah. Sicily is huge because it makes really tasty island wines that have an earthiness and have this exotic flavor to them, to be honest. And like you said, you know, the escapism that comes from ordering something from Sicily, people that just got back from a vacation, perhaps in Sicily, want to relive their memories of perhaps sipping a glass someone and Taurmina or, you know, I'm gonna post somewhere. So that totally makes sense why Sicily is trending. Any other regions, because, you know, you see consumers now maybe starting to go to Pulea or Sardinia, or really, are you still seeing Sicily as the number one? You know, we have, I don't know if it's regional as much it is varietal, but we have a brand from Cantina or sauna. They're a co op in umbria. And their sub brand lunaria, they have a pinot grigio pet net. And from a marketing standpoint, I think it sells really well because it's a pinot grigio Right. Pet net. And from a solved scenario, they're certified by a dynamic dimeter, and it's clean wine. It's really delicious, clean, fruity clean line, and it's really affordable. Awesome. So we do really well with that, and they do really well as a brand from what I've seen. So I see the key regions for the most part unless we have some niche people who have been to some of their sub, like Southern France, Ambrian. Right. So regions in Italy, but time again, it comes back down to major regions and major varietals. That makes sense. Absolutely. And, you know, I think like we said earlier, people are looking, you know, they're they're spending money, right, when they buy a bottle of wine in a restaurant. They wanna feel like at least they have an idea that they're gonna like it, which leads me to what I wanted to talk to you about next is value. Obviously, there's a lot of uncertainty in the economy these days and ups and downs. Things cost more. Everyone, not everyone, but a lot of people are are driven by value. So what do you would you say the next generation that's in the restaurants and at your wine bar in your restaurant? How do they define value when it comes to wine? You know, time and time again, and maybe I I have a bit of bias as a storyteller, but value comes in storytelling in this industry, and being able to take people to the vineyards, take people to the wineries, through words and really selling the consumer about what is going on out there, whether it be winemaking styles, whether it be tasting notes, but truly having a passionate approach to it is what I've seen draws the consumer in Right. Beyond what they know. But what can help wineries who might not have those driving factors is create them. Create them through storytelling. Right. Drive them through storytelling. So it's still coming back from what I'm hearing you say is that it's coming back to still the sommelier or whoever is selling the wine in the restaurant, being able to tell a great story about a special bottle and teach the consumer something through storytelling that's memorable. So really still educating your gatekeepers and your sommeliers seems to still be very critical for the New York market. That's what I'm hearing you say. Absolutely. And, yeah, pushing that through brand ambassadors or brand developers who can connect with the people who who will be doing the selling on on the consumer and building hype around the brands and putting people out in the market who live to tell stories. And have passion for the brands. Yeah. Absolutely. That makes a ton of sense. Mark, you've been working in New York for many years now and in the wine industry and and you know, in restaurants. How have you seen the role of the Italian wine category evolve in your time working in rents in New York? One of the most exciting things I love about the time market is the price for value. Italian wines have a place on everybody's list because you can just get some of the best value wines out there from boutique producers So they're they're taking over. They're doing well. I mean, it it really is French and Italian are staples, and I have a lot of Italian wine on my list. And I hate to say it not by choice or by necessity. Just because they the best price for value out there. I think the more that people can know that and lean lean into it, it does really well. And, you know, when people die out, they are looking for a decadent meal and wine pairing and a sense of occasion and Italian wine offers that Yeah. With a lot of dishes in these bistro style. Let's be real. New York is full of bistro style euro style restaurants at this point. Right. So Italians leaning into their styles of this slightly VA earthy, lively holistic wines is exactly what they can and and should do and just finding a way to tell the story behind that whether it be true organizations or, yeah, Yeah. So educating again. Like we said, educating the songs and having people in the market that really are passionate and can share your brand story really well also telling your story for you. Trying to, you know, leads me to the next question I had which you partially answered already, but do you think there's anything else beyond what we just spoke about that Italian wineries can do better to connect with both next generation consumers, but also next generation buyers. I mean, you're you're out there in some way a community sure it's starting to mentor and see some younger songs come up. You know, what do you think is getting that new song on the floor excited about why? I have a bit of old school approach these days, which I think new school songs will eventually take in, but To get the young Psalm is is to have the hip approach, at least have a SKU or a sub brand that is marketed towards that. But the key is for longevity is to stay classy with it. Don't go full nattie. Stay close to everyone. Yeah. I hear you. I mean, you know, look at these lighter styles and approaches some of these categories, whether it's a children or an interesting sparkling or an orange, but keep the wine well made. Yeah. That's the balance, right, that that is special to to strike. So now for a different kind of question, as we start to wind down our conversation a little bit, if you could share a bottle of wine with any Italian winemaker, Pastor present, who would it be and why? I would probably have to go with my first Italian influence, which would be just that'd be Benanti. Back to Sicily. I love Aetna wines. I'm enthralled by Aetna wines, and the Benanti wines are timeless and benchmark for quality and farming, especially in a traditionally hard to farm place So just getting the deep insight on a region and a heritage brand like that would just be pretty cool. Great. Awesome. It'd be pretty cool to do it in Sicily. I'd imagine. Yeah. The first place. Great answer. Mark, we'll now wind down, with our rapid fire quiz. I'm assuming do your best to answer these questions just in a couple sentences. Question number one, what is your number one tip for mastering the US wide market? Focus on relationships. That's how brands are built and maintained in this current economy of wine sales. It's just all about relationships in the end. Yeah. It's true. And time and time, we hear our guests say that, but there's a reason why. Absolutely. Number two, what is something you might have told your younger professional self about selling wine in New York City restaurants? Be adaptable. But again, stay classy. Say it a true true to roots and heritage of what this industry was built on and that grassroots has always been around. So not discrediting what has always been there in relation to the new wave. Having respect as well. It sounds like stay classy. Yeah. Absolutely. And finally, you know, we travel a lot. Sounds like, you're out of California quite a bit. What is some of your favorite travel hacks when you're on the road? Sarah bands. Going. Yeah. You know, you gotta stay lean and limber with these wine dinners. So a good workout finding the hotel gym and getting the the blood flowing with a thorough band in the hotel room before some wine trips and the market visits ended by a lovely wine dinner is the way to keep the mind strong and the the body limber. I love that. Yeah. Movement Movement is key balance. Right? All about that. Well, Mark, thank you so much for joining us today on Master Class US wine market. How can our listeners follow along with you and everything you're doing in New York and with the Venice bunch and all your adventures? Yeah. Thank you so much, Julian. The Venice bunch is on Instagram, the Venice bunch at the Venice bunch. And, yeah, I'm always doing all sorts of things, little pop ups, some market interaction, and All sorts of fun things. So keep in touch, new trending brands. Yep. Amazing. Awesome. Thank you again, Mark. It was so great to have you here. Thank you so much, Joel. Really appreciate you. Thank you for joining me today. Stay tuned each week for new episodes of Master Class US wine market with me, Juliana Colangelo. And remember, if you've enjoyed today's show, hit the like and follow buttons wherever you get your podcast.