Ep. 629 Meridith May | Get US Market Ready With Italian Wine People

Thanks for tuning into my new show. Get US Market Ready with Italian wine people. I'm Steve Ray, author of the book how to get US Market Ready. And in my previous podcast, I shared some of the lessons I've learned from thirty years in wine and spirits business helping brands enter and grow in the US market. This series will be dedicated to the personalities who have been working in the Italian wine sector in the US, their experiences, challenges, and personal stories. I'll uncover the roads that they walked shedding light on current trends, business strategies, and their unique brands. So thanks for listening in, and let's get to the interview. Before the show, here's the shout out to our new sponsor, Feroine. Feroine has been the largest wine shop in Italy since nineteen twenty. They have generously supplied us with our new t shirt. Would you like one? Just don't add fifty euros and it's all yours. Plus, we'll throw in our new book jumbo shrimp guide to international grape varieties in Italy. For more info, go to Italiancoin Podcast dot com and click donate or check out Italian wine podcast on Instagram. Hi. This is Steve Ray, and welcome to this week's edition of Get US Market Ready with Italian wine people on the Italian wine podcast. I'm pleased to have as a guest A longtime friend in the industry, Meredith May, who is the editor in chief and publisher of Tasting Panel and Son Journal Magazine. Meredith, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. Very excited to be here. Give us a, a quick bio of how you got into the, how, how you ended up as being publisher there, of these two publications. I thought it was very interesting. Both stories, both facing panel and some journal. So go back a little way. How you started and how you got to hear? Well, my initial background in the media was radio. I was behind scenes of some pretty popular disc jockeys in Los Angeles. And, eventually, started working on my own, as a food writer, and I got a little radio show going on food, and then started writing for a newspaper about food and somehow heard about this job from a magazine called Patterson's beverage journal, and I know you remember those days. Yes. I do, unfortunately. It was then the Bible of the, of the industry in California, and it started in nineteen forty one. Didn't start there in nineteen forty one. I do. I started there in two thousand when the, the wine and spirits business was starting to grow in a very unexpected way when the luxury products started really booming. So I became, I kind of talked my way into being an editor, didn't know what to think about wider spirits, but, got in there as a as a good writer as an editor. And, eventually, just started interviewing the most important people in the trade, winemakers, and distillers, and chiefs of industry in the in the trade. So kind of built the magazine up a little bit and went to the owner of the magazine, who was the printing company, who printed the magazines, didn't know a thing about wine or spirits. And I said, why don't you give me ten percent of the business? And I will grow this And he left and said, I don't give percentages to anybody. I love it. And I said, okay, I quit. I knew I had to go over a barrel. So he said, well, what am I supposed to do? And they said, well, sell it to me. And sure enough, gave me a price, and the price basically just bought the mailing list. And people said, what the heck are you doing? You know, we don't need another print magazine. We don't need another trade magazine. There was a couple of others out there at the time. But I sure started it and, worked with Anthony Dias Blue, who kinda let me his name at the time, pulled up a deep magazine as wine and spirits editors. So even though he didn't really work at the magazine, he He was there, support friend, and the magazine took off. And we that was two thousand seven. And it's grown a lot. And then, some journal. I remember reading some journal when it was with his former owner, and then you took it up. So that's kind of how I started pasting panel was just a a wing and a prayer. Really? I didn't know. I didn't read those. Yeah. Okay. Yes. It was owned by Dave Fogels, who also had the organists, journal and the dental of or the Dante journal. He liked wine, but couldn't figure out why I know what he bought subscriptions to, what's called, the Sunallier journal. It was an underground magazine. Well, the trade doesn't buy subscriptions, really. I gotta tell you. So I already had a business model with the tasting panel of sending out free magazines and getting my money from advertising and sponsorships. So, bought the Somulate journal in twenty thirteen with helping my husband who was working for Southern blazers at the time or Southern wine and spirits at the time. And, used my business model and went from twelve hundred circulation to now over sixty thousand. Nationally. So the magazines are thriving. Thank you very much. God. Well, and that's what I wanna turn to because you're doing something that nobody else is doing. Let's cut to the chase and talk about trade communications. And more specifically, trade print magazines. I mean, there's a lot that have exited the market. Some have been taken over by technology companies and so forth, but for sure, a tasting panel in some journal too, obviously, some journal is going to a more limited audience. Is kind of definitive. Certainly in the California market, but I think now you have a much you have a national footprint. No question, and really a focus on on on new brands. So how are you doing well with a print model advertising revenue generated model that a lot of people are saying is debt. We're selling out every issue. We're getting fatter and fatter. You know, some people wanna be on a diet, but not us. The magazines are full of content. You know, the ads support us. We don't sell content. We sell ads. So we're not pay to play. Although, you know, we do support our advertisers. We're not writing about refrigerators and watches. We're writing about wine and spirits and water and people and food and distributors and and, you know, the industry as a whole. And each magazine has its own voice, and people want those print magazines in their hand. And our we're called a requester magazine, so you have to send an email or sign up somehow, but we're allowed to send out, a certain amount of magazines to people that we figure are good, you know, qualified professionals, but we do get tons of subscription requests from the top people in the industry, and that makes me feel so good. Good for you. Congratulations. So what who is the target audience? Who who's reading your name? Target audience are the wine and spirits buyers, the gatekeepers, the retailers, the restaurateurs, the food and beverage directors at hotels. And then, of course, distributors who use our magazine on the street to market the products to the buyers. So it's really their their marketing tools for the brands where the buys and the white hats in the industry eyes and women. And and, you know, we're we're we're pro, the three tier system. We we wanna help, sell line and spirits to the first decision makers. I look at the magazine as something being, very critical to I I do a lot of work with brands who are coming launched in the U. S. Market. And tasting panel is one target publication to be visible in. You're up significantly in both in terms of circulation and in in add volume. How are you dealing with the idea? You know, I remember the days when media people would call in me as a brand manager, and I had a big budget to invest, and that's kind of the way it worked. It's a little bit different now. So how do you go about selling to the people who have the ad dollars to invest? Well, because we're not just selling an ad on a page, we're offering webinars, to educate buyers on the brands. We're, we have events that were finally starting up again, you know, seminars and tastings that not that are not just in cursing, but they get editorial value in a future issue of the magazine. So we we reach people on an interactive level as well as an editorial level, and we're we're put in the people's hands. We're, you know, if you if you buy a consumer magazine that has a an ad for a tuscan wine, I think it's glossed over where when we have ads in the magazine, the buyers will say, oh, I didn't know that they have a new vintage out of this, or, oh, look, they have a hundred percent same debasing now, for this wine. So it's It's looked at the I think the answer looked at as critically as the editorial. The editorial is more fun because we provide custom photography and, of course, the greatest wine writers in the world. Okay. So, it's all about new brands. And there's a lot of magazines that are about existing brands. Talking about why your focus is on new brands and what that offers both to the industry to consumers as well as the producers themselves who are important. It's not just about new brands. We write about established brands, but I think what we also don't write about is library wines or collector wines because we're not consumer. The buyers need to buy wines that sell right away as we know. And that's know, some of them have vertical tastings on their menu, but it's it's it is about telling what's happening now, what are the trends. And as hopefully the authority in the industry, we can help not only talk about the trends, but set trends as well. So new brands, we give a platform and we call them launch pads, you know, or or or, you know, we were happy to introduce new brands. Who else is gonna do it? Besides the people on the street, selling it, the distributors brokers, but here is an absolute great way of introducing to the most targeted audience you can find. So talking about new brands. I go with them every day. They face a plethora of of challenges. From your perspective, what kind of challenges to new brands? And we're talking, in this case, I'd like to focus on Italian brands and imported brands in general. Yes. Sure. Let's talk about Italian line. Of course, the the biggest challenge is finding the if if you of course, the importer, and then you gotta get to the distributor who's gotta pay attention to you. And because they're not building brands on their own, and their Salesforce is have been diminished in this past year, as we know, it's very important that we're there because we're getting out to everybody. You know, we're not only getting out to individuals, but I know we have a pass along of at least two, if not three, especially on premise and at retail. So the importance for what new brands need to realize is that you have to have a voice. You have to have a story. You have to be tasted. And I guess nowadays, rated, and there's more and more wine shops and retail stores that are open because the restaurant predicament that we've had. So there's there's more value in being seen by the best way you can and not that's not through social media. I don't thing necessarily in this industry and not always hoping your distributor is gonna get you on the shelf. Yeah. There's still a a cadre in the industry that's of, an older generation that that looks at print as authentic and everything else is, questionable. But, but thinking about new brands. So what are, some examples of what the secrets of what some brands have done really, really well in your opinion? To get the kind of visibility and street cred, if you will, among the trade? Well, let me tell you what I don't think works, which is these huge trade tastings that used to go on. When you're just lost in the crowd, unless somebody is bringing a recording device or a notebook, who's gonna remember you, they're gonna go to the next table and the next table. What again, for our medium, We're talking about our print magazines. I think the best, our best real estate is, of course, our covers. When we do a cover story, that's the first thing anybody sees. Even the back cover ad is a great placement. But for editorial, Let's find an interesting angle to talk about your wine. Let's interview your wine maker. Let's put you on a webinar where you can actually record from Pulia, or you can record from the hills of Piedmont and talk to our US audience, and then also get an editorial of that that webinar. Or let's take the wine, taste it, and send it to five different editors and have all the editors talk about what they're tasting. But it's, you know, there's an investment. You know, you've gotta invest in some kind of a relationship with the magazine. I all the reviews that I do are are basically free. I mean, we we charge for, bottle shots if somebody wants to have a bottle in there. Or my section in Psalm Journal, it's called the Psalm jury. Never charged for that. And it's it's kind of a a look behind the scenes of wines. So, you know, it's it's just wonderful to have a Zoom call with an Italian winemaker. And have the wine in front of me, the wine in front of them, and taste together, and try to translate that into the pages of the magazine. So we're just hoping we just tell the right message, but I also think photography is important. So if that winemaker comes to New York or Chicago or Miami or wherever we have our editors, which is everywhere, around the US, isn't it great to sit down with that person and have a trade lunch? And invite, you know, whether it's ten or fifteen buyers there to have that audience and then take that and their testimonials and put it in the magazine. So, it's a matter of how do you wanna market your wine talk to us. Let's brainstorm. There's no committee on my end. Let's just let's just get out there and and and work it together. Okay. Two points. One is, Meredith's, happy to share her contact information, and her email is m m a y at somjournall dot com. So that's m as in Mary, m as in Mary, a y at s o m m journal dot com. Tell me about how you handle tastings. Well, pre COVID, we would, sit with the wine editors. Let's say, it could be two, three, four, five, depending on how many I can get together. And we would take through ten to fifteen to twenty wines. And then when, of course, it all happened, we had to divide and conquer. So there's five of us now, tasting. And so sparkling wine goes to one editor. I mean, we had, you know, do it alone. So I would take some, and then Anthony Dias Blue takes some, and I've got three other editors, and East Coast, West Coast. We're gonna go back to group pastings again soon, even, you know, slowly but surely. And now what we're doing is if the winery is okay with it, they have to just ship it. So we're not doing it together is shipped to three or four or five of us. In fact, I just talked to, somebody at an Italian winery who is coming out with a big anniversary line, and we're going to do that. When you triple share it, and compare notes, and someone's gonna write the story. And then we're gonna three of us are going to, collaborate on the score and the review. And we do that with our articles too. I've got some amazing palettes out there. There's no reason to take it all by myself. Okay. I'm I'm I'm jealous of you're being able to taste all those granted I've had a lot of opportunity to taste a lot of wines, but I like tasting with knowledgeable people and, and discussing and describing. Which is why these webinars are so good because we're a lot of us are you know, the the editors are tasting together while we're watching the webinar, and then one person writes it up. And, you know, who are the editors that, you've got. Five thirty six of them, Jordan Hamel. Oh my god. No. Okay. But one of the things, you mentioned earlier in our conversation is the potential for Italian wines in what we hate to use the terms, but use them called secondary and tertiary market, not New York, not Florida, not Miami, not Miami, not Miami, not LA, San Francisco, and so forth. What kind of reach do you have to those markets and what role do you think they play? I think that's such a great question. And would have had a different answer here in half ago. We were just really concentrating on the big cities and, you know, and growing and growing. But since we've been locked down, and these wine shops are opening all over, and now restaurants are starting to bloom in Cleveland and Charleston and Birmingham, Alabama. These, you know, I'm I'm building Phoenix up like crazy because I think it's one of the best food cities in the country, and I'm moving there a year and a half. So I think it's all the relevance in the world now because you're getting chips leaving the big cities because the big cities are getting crazy with rules and problems and, you know, the challenges we're finding. So I think the secondary and tertiary markets are sexy. Well, I like that. That's gonna be our headline. The secondary and tertiary markets are sexy. That's that that's the headline. Yeah. It's fun to go to a new city like Nashville and just eat your way through five days of amazing food. And I think they should welcome Italian wines in any of these cities because Italian wine is my first choice, and I'm not saying it because of this podcast. It's always my first choice because it's the best food pairing wine in the world. And when you say that food pairing wine, I mean, one of the key things about Italian wines is there's like over six hundred indigenous varieties. When you say Italian wine, it isn't one wine, there's a gazillion of it. What are you looking for? You're looking for oral acidity. I'll find oral acidity in a big old amoroni and a bold but delicate barolo. And, you know, my favorite one of my favorites now is multiple channels. And a lot of goals, I mean, it's just the they they all have that common thread as, you know, as does my shut my other favorite, which is shutting up to pop from France, but I think Italian wines are still undiscovered in the US, especially on the West Coast, especially on the West Coast, because I know the East Coast has embraced them more. Because we are, you know, fighting against these big, bold napa cabs, and beautiful big bold cabs from Pacer globals. We can't really compete against the Pinos because the Pinos, you know, want that they have that acidity, but I think Italian wines have to make that statement together. And every way and an inch that we can take about tying in chefs in our articles or tying in food, is very, very important. I think the other thing that they have is this, the call it authenticity heritage, legacy history. Not only are many of them in family farms that have been in generations in some cases like Antinoid, hundreds and hundreds of maybe a thousand years. But the authenticity of that being an indigenous grape as opposed to just another expression of cabernet sauvignon. So there's a lot to discover, and certainly we all know that the Italian food is a perfect well, all food is a perfect accompaniment to Italian. Italian food is even a better perfect accompaniment to Italian. Do you agree with that statement? Yeah. It's like a it's a fashion statement. Yeah. Okay. Let's change to some journal now. The world of sommeliers or sommeliers, and, it's pronounced differently around the world has gone through a dramatic change. I'd say before COVID, there was this thing with the the the sound series of documentaries and movies and all of a sudden, we became kind of the thing. It certainly has, in the world of wine and the world of restaurants. And it took a huge hit in COVID. Can you talk about the role that some journal plays and where the sum community is going from pre COVID to post COVID in your opinion? Yeah. I think the sums are having to step down from their pedestal, but that's okay because the ones that are surviving are also going into the business of wine behind the scenes at the restaurants. That means they're the general manager also. That's doing inventory and having to check that online, they're, you know, they're working with the chef, more. They're they're getting involved. They're having their hands involved in more parts of the restaurant, which makes them more valuable. So I think it's actually a cool thing because you still wanna be called a Psalm or someone named because you've still got Psalm Foundation, Master Psalms, and the Court and WSTT, and financially international academy. Yep. Right. And all the other valued learning areas that will not go away, because education is number one, I think, for us, for Sam Durnell, So you've got that. You still have your your educated smart wine experts, but now they're hopefully becoming more important in their roles. Yeah. I see kind of It's still just the beginning stages of restaurants coming back, but a more commercial appropriate commercial commercial focus, so being the FNB director and not just the summary of picking the ones, and responsibility for profitability. And I think that's a big point that, the wines represent a significant, profit category for most restaurants, and some very uniquely positioned to be able to say, okay, these represent not only a significant margin, but a unique endpoint of differentiation. To your competitive set. Mhmm. And and not that many people may in the restaurant may know what they're talking about when they go up to a table and someone says, can you recommend a line? But that Some is still there. That person, that one multiple person is still there to to tell a story. And stories is what it's all about. Okay. So, you started, a partnership with, Samcon in San Diego. Can you tell us a little bit background with that? I've I've spoken at a couple of whom we were one panel discussion with you and the host. Tell me how that thing's evolved and what impact it's had on the industry, certainly on the West Coast. Sure. Well, I gotta give credit to Michelle Meader and Ken Loiz, the, founders of Sam Khan. Such a brilliant name. You know, people who've never heard it before. We heard it for the first time, you know, give a laugh because it's that comic con. Venue kind of thing. And and it's just it's people used to think Texum was the most important event of the year, but it was very hard to get in there. A lot of people couldn't couldn't make it. It was maybe a little intimidating because it was really led by master Psalms and people who are just learning, you know, coming in the beginning would feel shadowed. But Psalm Khan opens up to the whole industry, and it's such a great learning venue. So we put on seminars as as many people. But we are the official media hosts of sponsors of Samcon, and we were twice a year promoting and getting the most qualified bodies, at these events along with the, Sam Khan team and all these amazing volunteers who would just give their time open hundreds of bottles of wine for each seminar, get it all just tuned right. It is, it's such a great operation. I'm so proud to be part of it. Well, that's great. I I was impressed because of the practicality of what they were talking about, less about theory and a lot more about service. And, as we're talking about the commercial value of it, making money with by selling wines and making customers happy. Right. And, and we come in on the education side with our seminar. So ours are very focused with winemakers on a panel talking about from terroir to aromatherapy, phenomena. I haven't tried that, but it's an interesting idea. Okay. So, one of the other things we talked about when we were, preparing for this was the people that you've encountered have been kind of, a pleasure and an excitement, I think, for you. You give me one example of Angelo Agaya, who I've had the pleasure of meeting to. Talk about when you met with him how that's impacted you and also what other Italian producers you've met that have made an impact on you. Oh, dear. Well, when I met Henslugaya, he didn't know who he was. It was at the very beginning of my patterson's days. And I got put in front of him, gave him a magazine, took a photo of him reading the the pattersons at the time. And, that was before social war, but we put it in the magazine. I know it's it would I got a lot of good feedback from that. You know, Tony Turlado, that was not an Italian wine producer is such a pro he was such a pro Italian distributor importer. He was one of the most influential people, actually, in my career. He was the first to grace the nude song journal cover, and I'll never forget that. Oh, there've been so many people that I've met Nobody who has specifically mentored me, but I've hired a man named Lara Light, who used to work for Banphe Vintners for thirty years plus. And he is not only fluent in Italian travels there at least once a month, but handled all the liaisons with the Italian wine industry for a a public patient. So I guess he has become one of the most important and influential people the on the Italian side. And I met him twenty years ago. So that that was a long, a long relationship. I'll be doing, an interview with Barbara Whitmer, who's the winemaker for GilBrankaya. I'm very excited about that. We've had, PO Chezrae, you know, you know, wines and and featured the Chezrae family on our covers. So, I'm blessed. You know, I'm blessed to to have met so many wonderful people. Have you been to Vin Italy or Stevie Ken's wine to wine yet? No. But I send Pepsi. I I send the right people to the right events. People who are more valuable to go and taste and talk to people and write about the wines. I do think you'll ever go? I don't know if I'll go to a big trade tasting. I don't think I'm valuable there. I think for me, my dream would be a more be at a more relaxing going from winery to winery and making personal visits and and doing writing, kind of a road trip story. I have a question on the magazine side of it's it's kind of a loaded question. It's the first question that we get asked by any importer distributor you got scores. What do you think about the role of scores on the trade side, not consumer side? Let's narrow it to that. And their relative importance in really the successor failure of of mines commercial in the US? Well, I I have to tell you my opinion because, you know, there's so many naysayers about scores. And, of course, some buyers don't want to hear it. Just like when I go to a trade tasting, and somebody says, oh, yeah. We got a ninety five from one spectator. Well, you don't say that to someone from some journal or pasting panel. I wanna hear. Why is that news to people? Why is that a surprise that they they don't recognize that they're competing publications? It's just it's beyond me, but we I receive over two hundred and fifty wines a month to taste and score, and people are happy to pay me to do it. I don't always wanna be paid to do it, but there are some times where, you know, someone wants to taste twenty five wines. Well, I'm gonna have to there's gonna have to be some kind of something. So people want scores. We are now pasting panels now signed up with a multitude of venues who are using our scores for shelf talkers. So that increases the, the asks from the wines. So they must be pretty darn important because the the growth has been exponential. I mean, I used to get you know, maybe fifty wines a month, which I thought was a lot. And now it's, you know, it's just increased so much. People offer scores. It takes up a lot of my time. What do you use all the cardboard? It's an issue, isn't it? Right? Have to find the recycle places. And I'm trying to share that. So think of two hundred fifty just from me, and then I'm sharing it with at least four other editors. Yeah. A message to everyone out there. My personal one is don't use peanuts. Keynuts are a real problem. Right. No peanuts. And and don't send duplicates. That's the other thing. It takes a lot of space. If a wine is bad, I'll let you know, but don't send duplicates. Yeah. But but, you know, I find myself, you know, nights and weekends because I like to drink the wine with a meal. I don't just sit there and taste it, unless I'm working with a group. If I'm tasting with a group, then maybe we want when you will have cheese and crackers. But if I'm asked to really write about something considerate, I I I always spend a few time doing things. It's that on its own, James, One of the things I learned early on, you probably remember Philip De Bellardino, who used to also work at Bampy and also at Dallas Brands, which is when I, you know, I am thirty, somewhat years ago. He's passed since, but he was always wonderful about that. And, He was one of the proponents of a lesson I learned, which is, sell on cheese by on bread. That cheese coats the palate whereas bread cleanses the palate, then you get a much more accurate tasting note. You taste people on cheese, and everything tastes wonderful. Taste people, bread, just like crackers without salt, you know, salt, saltless salt teas. Anyway, what's the big takeaway from our conversation here? Is there one thing to thought, a trend of philosophy that someone who may be listening, and most of the people who are listening are in the trade in the U. S. In fact, that they can put to use immediately from having listened. To our conversation? I think the most important thing is that even if your wine tastes incredibly wonderful and your packaging is superlative, It doesn't mean we'll make a penny because you've got too much competition out there, and it's sad because everything's still coming out of the woodworks, you know, whether it's wine or tequila or whiskey, it it's just flooded. And you need to know how to get to the right people, and it it doesn't happen overnight. And there's it's a big big world out there, big country here, So I I my heart goes out to people who put their blood sweat and tears into their brands, into their wines, and I wanna help them. I I I really do. I I wish that I had a even, you know, I wish I had a magic touch that would really elevate, but the best thing I can do is send out free magazines to a million people a year, which we're doing. And hope it continues and and hope we're helping sell bottles. Yeah. At the end of the day, the old joke is what's the best bottle of wine is the one I just sold. So, a big, thank you to, Meredith May. Editor and Chief and Publisher at Psalm Journal and Tasting Panel. Nara, thank you so much for sharing your time with me. It's always a pleasure to talk to you. Oh, it was, it was wonderful. A little bit of a catharsis, but thank you. Okay. Hopefully, we'll see each other's somewhere in the world sometime soon. I hope so. Thank you. This is Steve Ray. Thanks again for listening. On behalf of the Italian wine podcast.